Ray's 22nd Brightest DCU Megathread - The OOMPH Age Begins Here!!!

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Raydawggie

I feel like you're taking a chainsaw to a line that needs a scalpel.

The problem isn't the mid-level books like Red Robin, Supergirl, or Birds of Prey. The problem is the bottom feeders clogging up the market, taking up good talent that could be on books with a chance. You remove those, it'll lift the mid-tier books.

The Batman family can probably sustain 5-6 books easily. Superman, probably 3-4. Green Lantern, 2-3. Flash, maybe 2. Everyone else should have one.

Your chains like Wal Mart and Target are not going to carry 50 titles. And when the 20 they do carry end up selling a couple hundred thousand copies what do you think will happen to the direct market specialty books that still exist that are still only selling 30-50k?

[Johnny C. TheLastHorseman]

Originally Posted by Raydawggie

Yep. Some are good (Dr. Voodoo, Sword), others are not (Magog, Azrael), but it seems they're all DOA right now.

Both companies need to get the hang of using characters effectively in ensembles as opposed to spinning them off instantly.

When even a Bendis/Maleev Spider-woman series is dropping down the charts, it's a very bad sign.

Sadly, quality has nothing to do with it. If there's not already initial interest in it, the books DOA before issue #1 even hits.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Johnny C. TheLastHorseman

The problem is, in today's market, the overall comics market, not just the direct market, if the direct market went away, so would monthly 22 page superhero comics.

Right now, yes. But comics are already starting to show up in retail stores and with Disney and WBE taking a more active role I think the dynamic is going to change very soon where we're seeing a big shift in where people get their comics as well as who is purchasing most of them.

Not a superhero book.

For older readers probably not, but for younger readers a super hero book is still probably the best doorway into comics

[Raydawggie]

This was the DC line I pitched a while back. It pares down the number of books to those more relevant to the universe as a whole. I made a few more edits. Feel free to pick it apart.

Batman Line:

Batman and Robin by Grant Morrison and rotating artists
Batman by Judd Winick and Tony Daniel
Detective Comics by Greg Rucka and Scott Hampton
Red Robin by Chris Yost and Marcus To
Batgirl by Bryan Q. Miller and Lee Garbett (w. Cassandra Cain back-up by Chris Yost and Chris Batista)
Birds of Prey by Gail Simone and Nicola Scott
Batman Beyond by Paul Dini and Renato Guedes

Superman Line:

Action Comics by Geoff Johns and Gary Frank
Superman by Greg Rucka, James Robinson and Pete Woods
Superman: Metropolis by Greg Rucka, Eric Trautmann, and Michael Gaydos
Superman Family by Sterling Gates and Jamal Igle on Supergirl, Sean McKeever and Mike Norton on Superboy, and others on a third feature.

Green Lantern Line:

Green Lantern by Geoff Johns and Doug Mahnke (w. a McDuffie/Derenick John Stewart co-feature)
Green Lantern Corps by Peter Tomasi and Patrick Gleason (with a Tales of the Corps backup by Tomasi and rotating artists)
Blue Lantern Corps by Judd Winick and Shane Davis (w. a Johns/Norton Blue Star co-feature)

Flash Line:

Flash by Geoff Johns and Francis Manapul/Ed Benes (with Johns/Kolins Wally back-up)
Kid Flash by Sterling Gates and Rafael Albequerque

Team Books:

Justice League by James Robinson and Ivan Reis
Justice Society of America by Peter Tomasi and Fernando Pasarin (with Mr. Terrific: Agent of Checkmate backup by Ivan Brandon and Don Kramer)
Teen Titans by JT Krul and Mark Bagley
Outsiders by Brian Wood and Jesus Saiz
Secret Six by Gail Simone and Nicola Scott (w. Suicide Squad backup by Ostrander/Mandrake)
Justice League Universal by Tony Bedard and Andy Clarke/Gerard St. Aubin

Other:

Wonder Woman by Grant Morrison and Phil Jiminez (with a Nunzio DeFilippis/Christina Weir/Sanford Greene Wonder Girl co-feature)
Aquaman by Geoff Johns/JT Krul and Adrian Syaf (w. Krul taking over after 12 issues)
Shazam! by Geoff Johns/Jerry Ordway (w. Ordway taking over after 12 issues)
Hawkman by Greg Rucka/Eric Trautmann and Joe Prado (with a Simone/Dagiano Atom co-feature)
Blue and Gold by Jeff Katz/Dan Jurgens (Booster, Ted, and Jaime)
Firestorm by Eric Trautmann and ChrisCross
Green Arrow by Peter David and Yanick Paquette
Power Girl by Jimmy Palmiotti/Justin Grey and Amanda Conner
Jonah Hex by Jimmy Palmiotti/Justin Grey and rotating artists

31 ongoings, with Jonah Hex being kept around solely for diversity.

[Raydawggie]

Originally Posted by Johnny C. TheLastHorseman

Sadly, quality has nothing to do with it. If there's not already initial interest in it, the books DOA before issue #1 even hits.

And it seems to be really hard to get that interest.

The last book to become a modest hit coming out of an event with a good build-up is probably Secret Warriors.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Raydawggie

This was the DC line I pitched a while back. It pares down the number of books to those more relevant to the universe as a whole. I made a few more edits. Feel free to pick it apart.

Batman Line:

Batman and Robin by Grant Morrison and rotating artists
Batman by Judd Winick and Tony Daniel
Detective Comics by Greg Rucka and Scott Hampton
Red Robin by Chris Yost and Marcus To
Batgirl by Bryan Q. Miller and Lee Garbett (w. Cassandra Cain back-up by Chris Yost and Chris Batista)
Birds of Prey by Gail Simone and Nicola Scott
Batman Beyond by Paul Dini and Renato Guedes

Superman Line:

Action Comics by Geoff Johns and Gary Frank
Superman by Greg Rucka, James Robinson and Pete Woods
Superman: Metropolis by Greg Rucka, Eric Trautmann, and Michael Gaydos
Superman Family by Sterling Gates and Jamal Igle on Supergirl, Sean McKeever and Mike Norton on Superboy, and others on a third feature.

Green Lantern Line:

Green Lantern by Geoff Johns and Doug Mahnke (w. a McDuffie/Derenick John Stewart co-feature)
Green Lantern Corps by Peter Tomasi and Patrick Gleason (with a Tales of the Corps backup by Tomasi and rotating artists)
Blue Lantern Corps by Judd Winick and Shane Davis (w. a Johns/Norton Blue Star co-feature)

Flash Line:

Flash by Geoff Johns and Francis Manapul/Ed Benes (with Johns/Kolins Wally back-up)
Kid Flash by Sterling Gates and Rafael Albequerque

Team Books:

Justice League by James Robinson and Ivan Reis
Justice Society of America by Peter Tomasi and Fernando Pasarin (with Mr. Terrific: Agent of Checkmate backup by Ivan Brandon and Don Kramer)
Teen Titans by JT Krul and Mark Bagley
Outsiders by Brian Wood and Jesus Saiz
Secret Six by Gail Simone and Nicola Scott (w. Suicide Squad backup by Ostrander/Mandrake)
Justice League Universal by Tony Bedard and Andy Clarke/Gerard St. Aubin

Other:

Wonder Woman by Grant Morrison and Phil Jiminez (with a Nunzio DeFilippis/Christina Weir/Sanford Greene Wonder Girl co-feature)
Aquaman by Geoff Johns/JT Krul and Adrian Syaf (w. Krul taking over after 12 issues)
Shazam! by Geoff Johns/Jerry Ordway (w. Ordway taking over after 12 issues)
Hawkman by Greg Rucka/Eric Trautmann and Joe Prado (with a Simone/Dagiano Atom co-feature)
Blue and Gold by Jeff Katz/Dan Jurgens (Booster, Ted, and Jaime)
Firestorm by Eric Trautmann and ChrisCross
Green Arrow by Peter David and Yanick Paquette
Power Girl by Jimmy Palmiotti/Justin Grey and Amanda Conner
Jonah Hex by Jimmy Palmiotti/Justin Grey and rotating artists

31 ongoings, with Jonah Hex being kept around solely for diversity.

Good books for today's DC Comics fan, but today's DC comics fan isn't going to save comics. Too many books. Too many titles in the same family.

[Johnny C. TheLastHorseman]

Originally Posted by NickT

Inexcusable? Come on.



I really don't get what the problem is. If they come out and sell great, if they don't then you get 6-12 issues of something that we didn't previously have. Oh no, variety!

And if the majority of superhero book readers had your mentality, then that would be great. But they don't. There's a breaking point, and we are way past that breaking point right now. Most superhero readers buy pretty much every book, sometimes just from one company, sometimes both, sometimes just certain family of titles (X, Avengers, Bat, Supes). And sadly, when more and more books come out, they don't trim back, they don't just buy the ones they think are the best, they eventually reach their 'breaking point' and then they just stop reading comics completely, they just bow out. It's a mentality that I don't understand, but it happens, and in the last few years it's happening more and more. And sure, a lot of it is due to the horrible economy, but it would still be happening regardless, just not as bad.

[leviathan]

Originally Posted by Matthew Brown

I don't know that Birds of Prey should be cut as part of the "Bat Family". I mean, technically it is, but it's also a team book featuring many non Bat-sidekicks.

I've always had a problem with classifying BoP as a Bat-title. I think that has actually limited its scope when it could easily be a book on par with the JSA or JLA in terms of impact on the DCU as a whole.

[AndrewG]

The other interesting thing about the liklihood of comics being sold at companies like Wal Mart and Target is that you're now looking at an extremely low price point. What I've heard is something like most comics would be sold under 1.99 because these chains prefer to make money on volume not markup.

[leviathan]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Good books for today's DC Comics fan, but today's DC comics fan isn't going to save comics. Too many books. Too many titles in the same family.

Much as I love the idea of those Bat-books, that's at least 2 books too many. I would cut one of the Bat-titles ('Tec or Batman) and Batman Beyond.