The Future of Comics?

[CraigM]

these guys are joining the great american novelists, and they make comics


comics are going to be fine, i'd say even better then it's ever been before
you just have to be the best of the best

That's not a healthy market and thats definitely not better than ever before. You're exactly right about how guys like Spiegelman and Crumb are on the level they have reached but you're missing the fact that it doesn't leave room for anybody else. Those book publishers who are home to the "great American novelists" also have room for writers like Stephen King, Tom Clancy and even Pam Anderson (and who do you think is getting the most publicity?), but when it comes to comics you have to be the absolute best of the best. Thats not a good market for new creators to aspire to compete in.

The "genre" market is a very hard market to break into. I think the quality has gone up so high that you have to come in with that same level of quality.

Craig

[Jacob Lyon Goddard]

Craig, the stuff Goddard is talking about is high art. You're talking about genre comics. Personally, I could give a shit if a comic got some praise in the Whitney review. I'm not ashamed to like what I like. I don't wish comics were more accepted by the mainstream art world. But if you want to succeed outside of the direct comic market, I guess you need to be a genre snob to do it. Or make OGN's, and you'll have to live with the indignity of sharing the bookshelf with manga and X-men visionaries Volume 3...

i agree with you



and i hate to break it to you Craig, but outside of comic fans, to the world at large, Ex Machina and Youngblood look like the exact same thing

there is no middleground between Jim Lee and Art Spegielman,
there are two types of comics- "the genre" and what Jono referred to "high art", that's what non-fanboys see
and one of those two types has been getting smaller and one is getting larger, and it's been doing that for the last 10 years

And if genre comics go there will only be "high art"?

Craig

i'm sure there will still be genre comics, they'll change format with the rest

and they won't be the things that change the world's mind about what comics are, or can do

no, it'll change, Stephan King sells a lot of books
but it'll be a while
the world needs to be convinced that comics can be fine literature first, the the publishers will start taking chances on books with a genre spin to them

i'm saying that comic books,will start selling like regular books before too long, and they are using the best of the best to get their foot in the door

[mike black]

So you think that genre comics are stuck where they're at and there's no changing the perception they have or the industry?

Craig

I'm going to jump into the conversation with the following:

Comic Stores do nothing to help the industry.

The future of comics is in the internet, neewspapers, book stores (though I'm not quite sure about that..) and in magazines.

The future of genre comics is something along the lines of Grant Morrison and the Wildstorm Universe. Think about the Wildstorm Universe as a concept, and you'll see where I'm going with that.

[Jono]

So you think that genre comics are stuck where they're at and there's no changing the perception they have or the industry?

Craig

I'm going to jump into the conversation with the following:

Comic Stores do nothing to help the industry.

The future of comics is in the internet, neewspapers, book stores (though I'm not quite sure about that..) and in magazines.

The future of genre comics is something along the lines of Grant Morrison and the Wildstorm Universe. Think about the Wildstorm Universe as a concept, and you'll see where I'm going with that.

I totally agree. Those few stores that love and promote indie comics are the exception that proves the rule. If LCS' can't or won't help you, fuck em, look elsewhere...

[CraigM]

So you think that genre comics are stuck where they're at and there's no changing the perception they have or the industry?

Craig

I'm going to jump into the conversation with the following:

Comic Stores do nothing to help the industry.

The future of comics is in the internet, neewspapers, book stores (though I'm not quite sure about that..) and in magazines.

The future of genre comics is something along the lines of Grant Morrison and the Wildstorm Universe. Think about the Wildstorm Universe as a concept, and you'll see where I'm going with that.

I totally agree. Those few stores that love and promote indie comics are the exception that proves the rule. If LCS' can't or won't help you, fuck em, look elsewhere...

And where exactly would you like us to look?

Craig

[Jason_BANNED]

I'm talking about the quality of the stories. Now, yes that is subjective, and that's what I mentioned in that post as is it something that is subjective to us and not the mass market. Ex Machine, Y: The Last Man, Fables, She Hulk. These are all books that are critically acclaimed by us, but get the low end of sales. So, the question is posed, are these books not as good as we think they are, or do they just not appeal to the mass market?

If you ask me, I'd say we're right and the mass market is wrong.

But maybe it's not that they're not good; maybe they're just not being pushed enough by retailers to have caught the attention of all the potential readers out there.

That's very true. But, at the same time how many retailers actually post here? 10? I'm so grateful we have these ten, but you then hear the stories of stores that won't carry anything but Marvel/DC.

I can't comment on this because I have very little exposure to retailers. Outside of Jeffery and the rest of the gang at my LCS, the only retailers I know are the few on the board.

My goal is to create comics I enjoy doing and that people read. The battle is not with the creating comics, but getting people to look at your book and buy it. It's the battle of getting retailers to stock your books. Not creating the books.

Understood, but that's relative to you. Maybe more creators put emphasis on the actual creation. Maybe more creators put the emphasis on gaining a large readership.

I think it would be difficult to say if it were one way or the other (or evenly tied right down the middle).

If you don't mind, let me ask you this: If you created Tyr and absolutely no one bought it, but you were happy with the book, would that be considered losing out to you?

Honestly, whether it sells 100 or 100,000, you've still done more than 95% of fans out there. You created something you believed in and were pleased with the outcome. You've done something I know that I aspire to do.

To me, you've already won. Getting it out to the masses is secondary to creating something you are proud of.

But that's just my opinion, and I understand we all may see things a bit differently.

Jason

[mike black]

So you think that genre comics are stuck where they're at and there's no changing the perception they have or the industry?

Craig

I'm going to jump into the conversation with the following:

Comic Stores do nothing to help the industry.

The future of comics is in the internet, neewspapers, book stores (though I'm not quite sure about that..) and in magazines.

The future of genre comics is something along the lines of Grant Morrison and the Wildstorm Universe. Think about the Wildstorm Universe as a concept, and you'll see where I'm going with that.

I totally agree. Those few stores that love and promote indie comics are the exception that proves the rule. If LCS' can't or won't help you, fuck em, look elsewhere...

And where exactly would you like us to look?

Craig

hmmm...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

Try there.

[Jono]

So you think that genre comics are stuck where they're at and there's no changing the perception they have or the industry?

Craig

I'm going to jump into the conversation with the following:

Comic Stores do nothing to help the industry.

The future of comics is in the internet, neewspapers, book stores (though I'm not quite sure about that..) and in magazines.

The future of genre comics is something along the lines of Grant Morrison and the Wildstorm Universe. Think about the Wildstorm Universe as a concept, and you'll see where I'm going with that.

I totally agree. Those few stores that love and promote indie comics are the exception that proves the rule. If LCS' can't or won't help you, fuck em, look elsewhere...

And where exactly would you like us to look?

Craig

Internet, bookstores....uh, did I say bookstores already? I didn't say it was easy finding a new way, but breaking into the direct market is almost impossible. Look at Josh's book, Elks Run. Everyone who reads it loves it. Warren Ellis gave him a blurb for christsakes, and he's got to fucking beg people so he can MAYBE publish HALF the goddamn mini. Does that sound like plan for success? Even assuming your book is incredible, odds are you'll wind up with nothing but your dick in your hand at the end of the day. I'd rather spend my energy looking for a New Way than banging my head against the door of the direct market.

[Jono]

I'd like to give a pat on the back to everyone who posted in this thread. Way to have a mature conversation about comics on the Bendis board. That fulfills our yearly quota....

[Nick_Borelli]