She-Hulk #9

[Dingo]

I don't think the difference between Jen and She-Hulk is purely confidence - though I grant, the following may or may not be how John sees it. Someone (possibly Dan?) said once that Jen would be the better poker player, and I think that's a lead on a key difference. Not that She-Hulk is more confident, but that She-Hulk is more impulsive. We've seen her say as much herself - remember her smashing holes in the pavement for twelve blocks to check on her goldfish? "Whenever I'm She-Hulk, I think about something one minute and do it the next." And in the Czarkowski case, she changes her mind about trying to change Hawkeye's fate, and she herself said that the difference was that she was She-Hulk when she reconsidered.

So while I'm not at all on board with John's reluctance to have Jen be She-Hulk, I can at least see how it could arise out of a motive other than him feeling challenged by her confidence. They're not different people, but they're subtly different versions of the same person - and in a close relationship, a subtle difference can be very noticeable. Heck, I'm just a reader, and I'm hoping that Jen changes her mind, and goes back to switching shape - I like both of her. And I don't think it's a matter of confidence, though it may seem so - I think as much as She-Hulk is a more impulsive Jen, Jen is a more strategic She-Hulk. The 'confidence' we see in She-Hulk, rather, is the knowledge of the abilities she has, the fact that she can take risks without being vulnerable. With her having spent so much time as She-Hulk (including long periods of being solely green) she's naturally come to rely on that leeway as a source of confidence - but I think we've seen in Slott's run that Jen has the potential for plenty of confidence in herself in other areas, and is really starting to grow into it. I'm not saying that's how John sees things, but to me neither of them are less gifted with naturally positive personality traits, so I don't see there being a genuine reason for either to be considered the 'right' form for her to take.

Good points, but to counter I would say that in spite of the fact that we can't change our appearance dramatically, we all have versions of ourselves.
The 'me' that interacts with my family is subtly different to the 'me' at work who is different again to the 'me' with my friends. Jennifer as a character just has a very clear boundary for where these different versions of herself start and finish. They are both her and I can't arrive at a theoretical justification in my mind why it could be OK for john to ask his wife which version she should be. Of course he can hold an opinion on which version he likes more, but he should support his wife in her choices.

So I can see how John would be upset that Shulkie 'sprang' this on him with no notice. It's not really directly analagous to any real-life situation I can think of, because normal people can't do what Jen does - dial up one aspect of herself while dialling down another - but in a sense, it's a decision she's making that'll affect who she is, somewhat like switching jobs will change your mood, if your new workplace is a different kind of environment. But at the same time, John does have a demonstrable Jen-bias that I think he needs to deal with - while I don't believe he shouldn't have the right to prefer Jen to She-Hulk, neither do I believe he should have the right to demand that She-Hulk be Jen. It's got to be her choice - she may make that choice as a compromise to make the relationship work, as most everyone does in a relationship at some point, or she may not, in which case it's up to John to either accept her, or let her be and move on if he can't.

So I guess what I'm saying is... Dan's done some very layered character work here, and it's too complex a situation to look at here and say 'Well, Jen obviously has to dump John,' or not.

I agree that Dan has done an excellent job of complex character interactions, but I am far too opinionated for my own good and I still say she should dump him

Apropos of nothing - certainly nothing to do with this discussion, but it just popped into my head this moment - do you think John's told Jen that he met Captain America? We've got no evidence that he's had any further contact with Cap, and Cap's legal situation at the time of their meeting is a bit murky - was he a wanted fugitive then, for busting out of the helicarrier, or only declared wanted after the Act formally passed? - but I just wonder about that. It's probably not significant in any case.

I don't know if Jen would even want to know. Perhaps he would have passed on the info if she turned out to have wanted to go underground.

[Dingo]

Hi Dingo,

I think you and I just have different assumptions about the Jen/John relationship and the motivations behind the characters' actions. Whether these two stay together or go down in flames, it will fun to watch the story as it unfolds.

I don't mean to be contrary for the sake of it, but I can't come up with a better assumption for the motivations. In any event you have my complete agreement on the fun bit

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Good points, but to counter I would say that in spite of the fact that we can't change our appearance dramatically, we all have versions of ourselves.
The 'me' that interacts with my family is subtly different to the 'me' at work who is different again to the 'me' with my friends. Jennifer as a character just has a very clear boundary for where these different versions of herself start and finish. They are both her and I can't arrive at a theoretical justification in my mind why it could be OK for john to ask his wife which version she should be. Of course he can hold an opinion on which version he likes more, but he should support his wife in her choices.

Very true - I should have known better than to say 'there isn't really a real-world equivalent to this', given the bizarre variety of stuff people get up to. There's a real-world equivalent to anything.

I think we're all agreed that John's issues with Jen being She-Hulk are something that need to be addressed - I don't think it's a coincidence that we've seen more than one instance when they've been getting into such a discussion, and have been interrupted by one thing or another. There've been suggestions that they have talked about it in more depth - #2, for example, when clearly they've gone over the reasons why Jen wants to stay green for the night - but I feel that the sense we have, of this having been an issue that's been evaded more than dealt with, is one that's not unfair to the characters. This is a story, after all - what happens 'on screen' invariably has more weight than something alluded to or assumed to have happened that we didn't see.

I agree that Dan has done an excellent job of complex character interactions, but I am far too opinionated for my own good and I still say she should dump him

Oh, that's fine - I'm the opposite. I side with Pug, but the philosophy courses I took at university instilled in me a perverse tendency to argue with anything, including things I agree with, just to see if they survive the argument. Hence, because I disapprove of John's attitude to She-Hulk, and think Pug could be better for her, I go and try to find reasons why Pug could be screwing things up, and John might not be as wrong as he seems.

That scene with Ditto suckered me completely, by the way - I don't know whether I was in a gullible mood, or whether Dan just carried it with style, but I had no idea until I looked at the actual frame with the bubblegum.

[tom daylight]

It NEARLY had me, but I was constantly wondering what she was doing there when she was SUPPOSED to be on her way to dinner with Jonah!

[Edward J. Cunningham]

Very true - I should have known better than to say 'there isn't really a real-world equivalent to this', given the bizarre variety of stuff people get up to. There's a real-world equivalent to anything.

I think we're all agreed that John's issues with Jen being She-Hulk are something that need to be addressed - I don't think it's a coincidence that we've seen more than one instance when they've been getting into such a discussion, and have been interrupted by one thing or another. There've been suggestions that they have talked about it in more depth - #2, for example, when clearly they've gone over the reasons why Jen wants to stay green for the night - but I feel that the sense we have, of this having been an issue that's been evaded more than dealt with, is one that's not unfair to the characters. This is a story, after all - what happens 'on screen' invariably has more weight than something alluded to or assumed to have happened that we didn't see.


Oh, that's fine - I'm the opposite. I side with Pug, but the philosophy courses I took at university instilled in me a perverse tendency to argue with anything, including things I agree with, just to see if they survive the argument. Hence, because I disapprove of John's attitude to She-Hulk, and think Pug could be better for her, I go and try to find reasons why Pug could be screwing things up, and John might not be as wrong as he seems.

That scene with Ditto suckered me completely, by the way - I don't know whether I was in a gullible mood, or whether Dan just carried it with style, but I had no idea until I looked at the actual frame with the bubblegum.

BTW, I called my comic book store and asked them if the variant issue of #8 will be coming in tomorrow that should have been last week. They hemmed and hawed, saying that they may not have got their order in on time. (They say they ordered 15 copies. ONLY FIFTEEN???) Hope I'm wrong, but I suspect they and many other comic book stores aren't going to get the reprint so if it isn't there tomorrow I'll have to order it on ebay...

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

BTW, I called my comic book store and asked them if the variant issue of #8 will be coming in tomorrow that should have been last week. They hemmed and hawed, saying that they may not have got their order in on time. (They say they ordered 15 copies. ONLY FIFTEEN???) Hope I'm wrong, but I suspect they and many other comic book stores aren't going to get the reprint so if it isn't there tomorrow I'll have to order it on ebay...

Well that sucks. I'm picking up this week's comics tomorrow, if there's still a variant #8 on the shelves I'll grab one for you. Can't promise anything, they were moving pretty fast when I got mine.

[Dingo]

Show your loyalty...

[Dan Slott]

Show your loyalty...

That's CLASSIC!
Thanks, Dingo.

(Boy, I can't wait for you guys to see the end of SHE-HULK #13... Some of you are gonna KILL me!)

[wessner]

(Boy, I can't wait for you guys to see the end of SHE-HULK #13... Some of you are gonna KILL me!)

Oh, you tease!

I've noticed we're getting quite a few "ending" motifs lately. Issue #8 had the proposal, #10 is described as having something surprising happen to one of the cast, #11 has an ending we won't see coming, now #13's ending will move some readers to homicidal rage.

[Dingo]

(Boy, I can't wait for you guys to see the end of SHE-HULK #13... Some of you are gonna KILL me!)

Dan,

You rushed Ben and Alicia back together in the two issues that were left and did it quite well I must say. For that I will be eternally grateful.

You gave me the long awaited, long anticipated return of Aunt Petunia. For that I will be eternally grateful.

You gave me hours of enjoyment by bringing the hostess fruit pie adverts into continuity. For that I will be eternally grateful.

You brought back the Spider-Mobile and made a great story from it, reminding us why we love comics from that era. For that I will be eternally grateful.

You gave me an appreciation for She-Hulk as a strong female character, and added another comic that my wife will read. For that I will be eternally grateful.

But if at the end of issue 13 things don't go the way that I want them to... I probably wont do much more than pout, but that poutiness will be on your concience mister.