So.....Brave, eh?

[Corrina]

In a lot of ways, it reminded me of How to Train Your Dragon, a child good at something that's not valued by the parent. In Dragon, it's Hiccup trying to prove that what he can do has value even though what he can do is not traditional.

Similarly, Merida's task is to marry (rather than learn to fight dragons), but there are valid reasons for her mother's orders, just as their are valid reasons for the Viking Chief's need to destroy the dragons.

In both cases, the child has something to teach the parent. Interestingly, Hiccup had to prove he was *better* than his dad to triumph, whereas Merida and her mum only have to have a meeting of minds. Merida recognizes the value of keeping the clans together, the Queen recognizes that simply relying on tradition to do so isn't the right way.

I really loved this movie.

I had a few niggles--I think it tried to be too Shrek-like with the witch's modern take--but mostly I loved the heck out of it. I don't understand why it's being said to be cliched because how many Disney Princess movies are about a mother-daughter bond? Belle just has her dad, Ariel and her dad, Lion King it's Simba and his dad, Snow White, Cinderella, Tiana, Rapunzel...

Ah. Tangled. That had something of a fractured mother/daughter bond. In that one, the mother is stifling and controlling but for evil reasons.

Where I think Brave falls down is that none of the men seem reasoned and serious and women-folk are responsible for peace.

Still, niggles. I loved the movie and I think the ending is empowering. It's about family and how to take one's place in it on one's own terms. There's a message that resonates for women and men.

[Ray G.]

In a lot of ways, it reminded me of How to Train Your Dragon, a child good at something that's not valued by the parent. In Dragon, it's Hiccup trying to prove that what he can do has value even though what he can do is not traditional.

Similarly, Merida's task is to marry (rather than learn to fight dragons), but there are valid reasons for her mother's orders, just as their are valid reasons for the Viking Chief's need to destroy the dragons.

In both cases, the child has something to teach the parent. Interestingly, Hiccup had to prove he was *better* than his dad to triumph, whereas Merida and her mum only have to have a meeting of minds. Merida recognizes the value of keeping the clans together, the Queen recognizes that simply relying on tradition to do so isn't the right way.

I really loved this movie.

I had a few niggles--I think it tried to be too Shrek-like with the witch's modern take--but mostly I loved the heck out of it. I don't understand why it's being said to be cliched because how many Disney Princess movies are about a mother-daughter bond? Belle just has her dad, Ariel and her dad, Lion King it's Simba and his dad, Snow White, Cinderella, Tiana, Rapunzel...

Ah. Tangled. That had something of a fractured mother/daughter bond. In that one, the mother is stifling and controlling but for evil reasons.

Where I think Brave falls down is that none of the men seem reasoned and serious and women-folk are responsible for peace.

Still, niggles. I loved the movie and I think the ending is empowering. It's about family and how to take one's place in it on one's own terms. There's a message that resonates for women and men.

In Tangled, it really wasn't her mother, though. It was her kidnapper who pretended to be her mother and emotionally abused her.

I liked that Princess and the Frog was one of the few Disney movies to have a living mother, but her mother had so little screen time that it was hard to tell much about her. A few more scenes would have helped.

I'm looking forward to seeing Brave, though. Even though the core of the plot seems a bit silly (and more than a little reminiscent of one of the worst Disney movies of all time), the animation looks gorgeous and Merida seems like a fun character.

[AthenAltena]

It was flights of whimsy grounded by very real human emotions.

I think that's definitely one of Pixar's strengths, and the little short before Brave really showed that, since the characters spoke in gibberish but you still understood everything. And I think the emotional part of Brave was very genuine, at least for me.

[Kevin T Brown]

Saw it today. Both my wife and I loved it. This is a must buy when it comes out on Blu Ray.

[JBK405]

I think that's definitely one of Pixar's strengths, and the little short before Brave really showed that, since the characters spoke in gibberish but you still understood everything.

Aye, La Luna was quite heartwarming. So much can be conveyed with tone and body language, and gibberish, if you do it right.

One thing which I only noticed in retrospect, and which heavily broke with tradition on "Arranged marriages are awful" stories, was how the male suitors eventually supported the "let's chose for ourselves" concept. Generally, when there's an arranged marriage plot the main character opposes it, but the other side of the story either never gets enough screen presence to have an opinion one way or another, or is already in love and wants to break off the arranged marriage for their specific significant other. I can't think of another story where the suitors (male or female) also opposed an arranged marriage on general principle, without already being in love with somebody. It's not a huge plot point, but it made the movie about "Everybody should chose their path" instead of "the arranged marriage would work fine if only there were better choices."

EDIT: And come to think of it, I can't recall an arranged marriage story where the protagonist didn't find or already have a love interest, either. They almost always end with a marriage, or at least dating, anyway, even if the planned marriage itself was called off. It is extremely refreshing to have a woman say "I don't want to be married" and have that actually stick; when the marriage happens anyway, whatever moral might have been there is almost invariably buried beneath the "a woman needs a man" outcome. I think this is the first film revolving around a marriage where the woman actually managed to stay single.

[AthenAltena]

One thing which I only noticed in retrospect, and which heavily broke with tradition on "Arranged marriages are awful" stories, was how the male suitors eventually supported the "let's chose for ourselves" concept. Generally, when there's an arranged marriage plot the main character opposes it, but the other side of the story either never gets enough screen presence to have an opinion one way or another, or is already in love and wants to break off the arranged marriage for their specific significant other. I can't think of another story where the suitors (male or female) also opposed an arranged marriage on general principle, without already being in love with somebody. It's not a huge plot point, but it made the movie about "Everybody should chose their path" instead of "the arranged marriage would work fine if only there were better choices."

Yeah, I really loved that they included that. It also makes the whole issue less one-sided than it does in most stories, since in a lot of stories with similar arranged marriage plotlines the guy is either excited about the marriage or really has no reaction, and I liked that all three boys were shown to be going along with it just because their dads told them to as well, which helps reinforce that blindly enforcing gender roles hurts everyone, not just women.

I did love that when Elinor is talking to Merida about when she married Fergus she admits that she was unsure at first, and Fergus has this great split-second "What?!" face. Obviously it worked out and I thought those two were adorable, but that was a nice little moment, and tells us a lot about Elinor since she apparently hid it, which fits with her character and the whole idea that "a proper lady does what she must" thing she has going.

And I was talking with the friends I saw it afterwards and I realized that Pixar is actually pretty ballsy when it comes to some of the fears they touch on. Not "jump out and scare you" fears (well, except maybe Monsters Inc.) but psychological fears. There was a lot of that in this movie, and I don't think I've seen a Disney movie that really does that since The Lion King.

[JBK405]

That scene actually reminded me of a song from Fiddler on the Roof, where Tevye and Golde ask each other if they love each other. They've spent so many years together and raised five daughters, but they were also an arranged marriage and never met before the wedding day, and in the age of changing customs they're beginning to think about 'love' for the first time. They both, almost unwillingly, admit that they do love each other, but only because they GREW to love each other over the years, and not because they were actually a good match, so they let their daughters chose who they want to marry (although they still do expect their daughters to get married, and draw the line at a non-Jew, so it's not a perfectly similar situation).

[AthenAltena]

That scene actually reminded me of a song from Fiddler on the Roof, where Tevye and Golde ask each other if they love each other. They've spent so many years together and raised five daughters, but they were also an arranged marriage and never met before the wedding day, and in the age of changing customs they're beginning to think about 'love' for the first time. They both, almost unwillingly, admit that they do love each other, but only because they GREW to love each other over the years, and not because they were actually a good match, so they let their daughters chose who they want to marry (although they still do expect their daughters to get married, and draw the line at a non-Jew, so it's not a perfectly similar situation).

Yeah, I love that scene because of the way they play it. And Elinor and Fergus reminded me of Ned and Cat from Game of Thrones in a lot of ways, and Elinor especially seems to be in the same mold as Cat. I'm perfectly fine with that, since I love female characters who may fit into "traditional" roles but still have undeniable strength to them and I think they're important to have around.

[michealdark]

Yes. Especially since the relationship between the mom and the daughter is really the focus of the plot, and that hit really close to home for me (and I'd guess a lot of other people). And I'd say in the end the moral does hold up, since I don't think it was about "freedom" so much as choice, which might seem similar but aren't necessarily the same thing, and choice is really a key value for a lot of modern feminism. I also liked how they showed that even though Elinor (the mother) was a more "traditional" woman, she still had strength even in that role since she's essentially the one keeping the kingdom together on the administrative side, Merida just had a different type of strength and eventually grew to appreciate her mother's type and vice versa.

Overall I liked it, and fully admit I was crying like a baby at parts.

Cool. Definitely sounds like all my psyching myself up for it for months might actually pull itself off, or if it doesn't, it won't be the fault of the movie but of my over-expectations of it

[Shurato2099]

Saw "Brave" yesterday and loved the living daylights out of it.