"Girls"

[BnL]

I agree that Hannah is unlikeable. But I do think the show does have a realistic tone, and I appreciate how rare it is to see something like this on TV.

I don't know if I'd say I like the show. It's an amusing enough diversion. Oh, and Peter Scolari showed his penis! Would've been nice if he did it 20 years ago, but still a welcome surprise.

And yeah, Veep is hilarious.

[ShaunN]

What do people think about the issues of race, white privilege, and nepotism that have been raised in relation to this show? The race issue: the characters live in one of the most diverse cities in the US, but non-white characters rarely appear. White privilege: most of the main characters come from wealthy, privileged backgrounds and have unthinkingly enjoyed the fruits of that privilege. Nepotism: all of the stars of the show are the daughters of rich and famous people. They have had a great deal handed to them on a silver platter in their lives.

Lena Dunham has said that she writes what she knows. I commented on the NYT blog about this by saying that it may simply indicate the extent to which Americans self-segregate, even in diverse cities.

I don't know if Donald Glover joining the cast will really help. Did Lena Dunham suddenly acquire a black friend in real life (like when she hired Mr. Glover)? Or is he a kind of "token" to address the criticisms. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[FanboyStranger]

I think the diversity issue is tied into the show's preoccupation with the characters' self-involvement-- they do not socialize outside their own circle, and in the few circumstances when they do, it's generally with people at work, which is where the only people of color on the show appear. (The Latina at Hannah's job, the other nannies Jessa talks to while losing the girls at the park.) If I had to estimate, I'd say that 80% of the scenes in the first season either occur in their apartments, Adam's apartment, or on the phone with one another-- not many people outside of that close knit circle there. I do think it's a great example of self-segregation, but there's a certain honesty in that as well.

I don't have high hopes for Glover's character because the men on Girls tend to be character types rather than actual characters. The exception is Adam, who began as a stereotypical "dick" boyfriend, but changed in the last few episodes. Glover is remarkably charming, however, so he may bring something to the role that wasn't there on the page, much like Dunham says that actor that played Adam did.

[Tyr]

I saw this title and now I have that Beastie Boys song stuck in my head. Thanks you very much for that. I'll be hearing that song all day, and its not even one of their better ones.

[Neil C.]

Sorry, should've called the thread "Hey Ladies."

[ShaunN]

I think the diversity issue is tied into the show's preoccupation with the characters' self-involvement-- they do not socialize outside their own circle, and in the few circumstances when they do, it's generally with people at work, which is where the only people of color on the show appear. (The Latina at Hannah's job, the other nannies Jessa talks to while losing the girls at the park.) If I had to estimate, I'd say that 80% of the scenes in the first season either occur in their apartments, Adam's apartment, or on the phone with one another-- not many people outside of that close knit circle there. I do think it's a great example of self-segregation, but there's a certain honesty in that as well.

I don't have high hopes for Glover's character because the men on Girls tend to be character types rather than actual characters. The exception is Adam, who began as a stereotypical "dick" boyfriend, but changed in the last few episodes. Glover is remarkably charming, however, so he may bring something to the role that wasn't there on the page, much like Dunham says that actor that played Adam did.

Yes, I agree with all of this. I have to admit that, while I find the race issues on the show to be interesting and revealing, I find the nepotism to be really annoying. As I said, all of the main actresses were born with silver spoons in their mouths. They are the children of the rich and famous. It's a backstory to this series that makes me want to avoid it.

[FanboyStranger]

Yes, I agree with all of this. I have to admit that, while I find the race issues on the show to be interesting and revealing, I find the nepotism to be really annoying. As I said, all of the main actresses were born with silver spoons in their mouths. They are the children of the rich and famous. It's a backstory to this series that makes me want to avoid it.

I would probably have a problem with this if the work wasn't strong. This isn't some Paris Hilton or Kardasian reality show-- Dunham did the work and produced two solid pieces of art, and the actresses embody their characters extremely well. Her family may have opened some doors for her, but when presented with the opportunity, she produced.

Also, it wasn't until Apatow started championing her after watching Tiny Furniture that she got any real traction with HBO. She won him over with her work, not who she's related to.

[ShaunN]

Fair enough. But who she is related to was very instrumental in getting her work out there in the first place. Tiny Furniture is also very autobiographical and, while I don't know this for sure, I'd be surprised if her ability to get it made was not related to who she knows.

I also get the sense that this woman just put her friends into her TV show. Are there not actresses in NYC who are not the daughters of the rich and famous?

I appreciate that all of us use the advantages that we may have in life to get ahead. I think it is important to be aware of our privilege when we are in such a position, however. I don't get much of that sense from Dunham or her friends. Maybe I'm not being entirely fair to her, but her TV show looks like a vanity project and her awareness of issues like class, race and privilege seems sorely lacking.

[Neil C.]

It entertains me, which to be honest is all I care about. I grew up in a middle-class suburb of LI which wasn't exactly diverse, so I probably would write a story with few minority characters, too. If the writing or acting sucked, I could see a big deal about the classism and nepotism, but if it's good, it doesn't bother me unless it was outright racist.

[ShaunN]

It entertains me, which to be honest is all I care about. I grew up in a middle-class suburb of LI which wasn't exactly diverse, so I probably would write a story with few minority characters, too. If the writing or acting sucked, I could see a big deal about the classism and nepotism, but if it's good, it doesn't bother me unless it was outright racist.

I think that the problem here is that Dunham managed to take one of the most racially and ethnically diverse cities in the world and whitewash it. As I said earlier, the fact that she is writing from her life pershaps makes Girls an interesting comment on the extent to which Americans self-segregate, but when something makes it onto TV, it takes on a larger life. Many people have commented on how Girls is not much different from many other shows of the past, such as Seinfeld, Friends, etc., which also presented virtually monochromatic worlds. But that was then and this is now.

To put it more simply: the US is now a very diverse place. It is only fair that the many people in the US who are not white see themselves reflected on TV world. In this case, the issue is more poignant because Dunham's work is being held up as "relatable" by her supporters. But the very fact this comment could be made raises the question of "relatable to who?"