Jumping the Shark, Fan Culture, Haters, and Investment Mentality

[ZimMan2]

I'm a fan of both toylines...care to share some of the highlights (or lowlights, as the case may be)?

Oh, I'm into both franchises myself. But the fanbases will so often make mountains out of molehills, be complete dicks to each other for stupid reasons, and just have an air of being purely nostalgia driven. The Transformers fandom is the least egregious, simply by virtue of being the biggest and therefore most diverse, but still, things can get pretty ugly. Especially in regards to any semblance of romance. Everything immediately goes to robo-sex as far as fans are concerned.

[Patrick Gerard]

Most fan "entitlement" I see is just people offering legitimate complaints in an overly-hyperbolic fashion. You want to see true entitlement? Go check out a Transformers or (god help you if you attempt this without being a fan yourself) G.I. Joe message board.

Every fandom is guilty of it in some capacity, but God damn, 80's cartoon/toy franchise fandoms are, without a doubt, the worst offenders.

I can kinda see it. Reboots reset your investment level.

I like that Fantastic Four annual where everything moved in real time since the 60s. Kesel and Immonen if I recall correctly.

I like the concept of classic Earth-2. I still think the cool thing to do with the DCNU would have been to make Earth-2 the pre-Flashpoint DCU but, say, kill off the JLA and make the JSA the big guns. That way you have an Earth-2 with a JSA but you also have Wally and Donna. Dick as Batman.

Honestly, I'm a fan of any take that at least pretends to be reboot free.

And if I could pick a dream Transformers project, it would be set in a stock G1 continuity. Arcee is actually a girly Autobot, not an experiment. Daniel Witwicky is around. Galvatron is around. Optimus Prime is back. Rodimus was once leader. Starscream is a ghost. There are Targetmasters and Headmasters. And this book would be a prequel to Beast Wars, showing how the Maximals and Predacons replaced the Autobots and Decepticons. It'd be called Transformers: Evolution One.

I'm partial to Morrison's take on Batman. I don't want a single campy ass story ditched. I don't want costumes updated in flashbacks. I want to pretend that every story since 1938 was somehow one continuity. If it doesn't fit, fine. I'm not saying to obsess over shoehorning everything in. Just don't rule anything out. Don't update the past. Don't tell people that a story didn't happen. If a story is weird or complicated, laugh about it. Have some cop comment on how weird it is to be tracking the former President of the United States when they go after Luthor and his partner shrugs and says, "Eh. It's a weird world. Who really keeps track? I think the Joker was president for a few days." If you don't want to make a big deal out of Superman fighting Doomsday, you just have Superman say, "I've died a lot of times. It goes with the job, I guess. Doomsday is hardly the scariest thing that ever killed me."

[zemo]

I say a lot of fanbases have a lot of self entitlement issues. I hate the idea that the audience should mandate creative decisions. That should only happen if something's not well received and sales drop and they decide to rectify it. And even then, those people can be wrong alot of times like with the Mass Effect 3 ending crybaby, hissy fit. If you don't like something, you can voice your concern and decide to continue buying the product or stop.

I think people should do whatever they want when making a film, game, comic, show, etc and take risks. Then see how people react, choose to take criticism that you agree on, or don't. That's all.

Doesn't work that way, not if you aren't dealing with a monolithic singular creation. Bioware caved in and decided to make a different ending because at the rate they were losing customer trust they saw their future investments endangered. Whether you want to call it "self entitlement" or "right to a story that makes sense", we are dealing in Realpolitik. And that means: If you make something people don't like, you won't get a chance to make something they might like.

[Lunar Archivist]

Oh, I'm into both franchises myself. But the fanbases will so often make mountains out of molehills, be complete dicks to each other for stupid reasons, and just have an air of being purely nostalgia driven. The Transformers fandom is the least egregious, simply by virtue of being the biggest and therefore most diverse, but still, things can get pretty ugly. Especially in regards to any semblance of romance. Everything immediately goes to robo-sex as far as fans are concerned.

I've been in a fembot discussion thread, which was interesting. One interesting thing about those fandoms is the bootleggers: they often end up making products that fans have been wanting for years but never got officially released.

I can kinda see it. Reboots reset your investment level.

Or make you want to close your account. I'm more annoyed that there are several minor subplots and hinted-at future events floating around that I'll now never get to see resolved or happen.

It sounds funny, but one comic that's recently grabbed my attention is Archie Comics' Mega Man, of all things. It's written for kids, but damn, from the art style to the characters to the subtle continuity references, you can actually feel how much the creative team loves the video games they're based on and how they went all out to create something that is respectful of the license and not just being churned out to make a fast buck.

And if I could pick a dream Transformers project, it would be set in a stock G1 continuity. Arcee is actually a girly Autobot, not an experiment. Daniel Witwicky is around. Galvatron is around. Optimus Prime is back. Rodimus was once leader. Starscream is a ghost. There are Targetmasters and Headmasters. And this book would be a prequel to Beast Wars, showing how the Maximals and Predacons replaced the Autobots and Decepticons. It'd be called Transformers: Evolution One.

Same here. I'd personally like to assemble all the writers for those old shows and let them go nuts writing whatever the hell they want without company policy dictating which characters should live and die.