The GIRLS thread

[MIKE D]

"Do you want to step on my balls?"

I'm going to miss that guy.

'
I doubt he's going anywhere.

All caught up, btw. And fuck the haters, the show is very good.

[MIKE D]

It's got me curious about Tiny Furniture now.
I shall be checking it out on Netflix.

There has been so much commentary on the fact that she is very much writing from/on only her direct life experience, but...I've never quite seen why that particular criticism, when levelled at an artist, indicates a creative failure.

In this instance, she has taken life events that many dismiss as mundane and generated from them something sharp, painful, and beautiful.
If you like it, watch it and marvel and be moved!
If not, run away!

Silly people.

You have to tell me what you think!

Here's why I'm suspect of the racial criticism: How I Met Your Mother and Friends went YEARS depicting a white New York, and no one said a peep. Suddenly it's an issue, and it's an issue for a show that's run by a young woman that freely admits she's writing from her own limited experiences. So even though inclusion of a voice of color would be tantamount to tokenism here, because there is no writers room (Dunham writes the whole show top to bottom) for that voice to be heard as authentic, THIS is the show some people make the stand on. I really think it's less the actual issue, and more the backlash to anything perceived as "hipster".

[Karen Mahoney]

Okay, so I watched the first episode and... so far I am not loving it.

But I'll watch a couple more before I form a full opinion. (My first thought was: holy crap, girlfriend! I had to get a part-time job when I was 14. I cannot relate to you AT ALL. I mean, I get that we're supposed to see how privileged her life is, but I'm still hoping she has a Character Arc that gives me the warm fuzzies.)

Kaz

[TheTravis!]

Here's why I'm suspect of the racial criticism: How I Met Your Mother and Friends went YEARS depicting a white New York, and no one said a peep. Suddenly it's an issue, and it's an issue for a show that's run by a young woman that freely admits she's writing from her own limited experiences. So even though inclusion of a voice of color would be tantamount to tokenism here, because there is no writers room (Dunham writes the whole show top to bottom) for that voice to be heard as authentic, THIS is the show some people make the stand on. I really think it's less the actual issue, and more the backlash to anything perceived as "hipster".

I also think it's a sneakily insidious way to level criticism at a show by a woman and avoid accusations of sexism. That is to say, the racism card trumps the sexism card, so lazy critics can safely use it as an attack against a white girl writing bravely and honestly about her life.

[jenifu]

I don't think those people are being silly.

It seems to me that a lot of people were hoping that Lena Dunham would be the voice of their generation (if we even have generations anymore post-internet), and were bummed out when her work didn't speak for them.

That reaction isn't fair to her because it puts her in a Cobain-esque position, and it's an emotional reaction - not a critical one - but it's still important, because it says something about what people feel they need right now.

The idea that an audience shouldn't influence your art is a valid one, but at this point I'm not sure if that exists anymore post-social media... or if we can apply the same vacuum concept to Girls, Friends, SITC, etc. that we would to a poem.

I'd be interested to hear Kaz & KSD's thought on whether they feel any obligation to speak for their generation - or their gender - in their work.

-Tom

I don't believe that artistic endeavor is necessarily meant to exist in a vacuum.
For many creators - poets and otherwise - a consciousness that thinking, feeling minds out there are going to ingest and consider what is being presented is a critical and formative part of their process. In good balance, that relationship can help inspire, refine and even elevate their art (thus, editors).

I think that the job of an art audience is a fairly modest one: to look out for creative work that they find moving or inspiring or enthralling.
If someone is looking for an artistic voice to represent them, their sole role is to seek out someone or something that fits the bill; to that end, it seems to me that pinning all of one's hope and need for personal expression upon a selected prophet is the pinnacle of laziness.

To heap criticism upon an artist that does not fill that role or meet that expectation - that, to me, is silly (if not downright petty and foolish.)

[jenifu]

Here's why I'm suspect of the racial criticism: How I Met Your Mother and Friends went YEARS depicting a white New York, and no one said a peep. Suddenly it's an issue, and it's an issue for a show that's run by a young woman that freely admits she's writing from her own limited experiences. So even though inclusion of a voice of color would be tantamount to tokenism here, because there is no writers room (Dunham writes the whole show top to bottom) for that voice to be heard as authentic, THIS is the show some people make the stand on. I really think it's less the actual issue, and more the backlash to anything perceived as "hipster".

I feel the same.

[jenifu]

I can understand.
I began working myself at 15 (not counting the unofficial, paper-delivery-style jobs that I had at an even younger age), and the idea of reaching that age without having actually worked to support myself is unbelievably ridiculous.
The parts that DO intersect with my own life experience, however - the female relationships, the new workplaces, the inexplicable, profound attachments to poisonous people, the thoughtlessness, cruelty, and foolishness that come out of the sheer, unending discomfort of MOLTING - those are the parts that I find so shockingly accurate and uncomfortably touching.
For me, it's the excruciating honesty of the way in which she renders these things that really blows me away.
It still makes me cringe to recollect having lived those things; the precise, ruthless depictions that she is putting out there leave me awestruck at her courage.
It also helps ease old pain and shame, a recognition that I wasn't alone in these things.
That's been unexpected.

[Curt Pires]

I really do think that the show gets stronger with each episode, and that truly this is one of the better shows HBO is doing right now. The more the show goes on I think people have less foder for that sort of Racist argumentation. The show certainly does not seem to be trying to comment on racial issues in any way at this point, and is rather just focused in on the lives of these characters.

it's the first show I watch on sundays after work at this point, which is much different from when it started six or however many odd weeks ago.

[Karen Mahoney]

I can understand.
I began working myself at 15 (not counting the unofficial, paper-delivery-style jobs that I had at an even younger age), and the idea of reaching that age without having actually worked to support myself is unbelievably ridiculous.
The parts that DO intersect with my own life experience, however - the female relationships, the new workplaces, the inexplicable, profound attachments to poisonous people, the thoughtlessness, cruelty, and foolishness that come out of the sheer, unending discomfort of MOLTING - those are the parts that I find so shockingly accurate and uncomfortably touching.
For me, it's the excruciating honesty of the way in which she renders these things that really blows me away.
It still makes me cringe to recollect having lived those things; the precise, ruthless depictions that she is putting out there leave me awestruck at her courage.
It also helps ease old pain and shame, a recognition that I wasn't alone in these things.
That's been unexpected.

Oh yeah, me too with the jobs even younger! Babysitting, newspaper delivery. My first proper job was in a shoe shop - I didn't get pocket money (allowance) from the age of 14 so had to earn it.

I have the next two episodes ready to watch, because I want to like it. Especially after what you just said here. The "excruciating honesty" part I can already see, and I look forward to more of that. (In an uncomfortable, squirmy sort of way.)

Kaz

[tomgastall]

Community's Donald Glover to be on season two of Girls.