The GIRLS thread

[Curt Pires]

Because there has to be one. I'm interested to see what everyone thinks of this show. I think I am in the minority here in that I am enjoying it. I feel like Lena Dunham has a very interesting voice as a writer ,and a knack for hilarious dialogue. At the same time, I'm sort of bothered by how whitewashed it's portrayal of New York is . But this is hardly an offense exclusive to GIRLS , the same could be said for the version of New York we encounter in Woody Allen's films.

Everyone who talks about this show tends to get like super into it and just crosses the Rubicon into full rage, or love of it. Let's clinically dissect it. What do the brilliant citizens of this here Kelly Sue forum have to say ?

[Karen Mahoney]

Oooh... interesting thread! I haven't seen it yet - we don't have it over here but *ahem* I'm sure I'll figure out a way to see it. I actually AM interested because a couple of friends of mine are enjoying it, and they're normally pretty tough to please with tv stuff.

The whitewashed NY would probably annoy me too; as one half (the white half!) of an interracial couple I'm a bit sensitive on those issues. But I'll see what I think when I get around to watching.

Cheers,
Kaz

[jenifu]

I am really liking the show.
I think Lena Dunham is a very brave, very perceptive, and very honest writer and director.

[Karen Mahoney]

I am really liking the show.
I think Lena Dunham is a very brave, very perceptive, and very honest writer and director.

That sounds a good recommendation to me. Makes me want to see it more!

[jenifu]

That sounds a good recommendation to me. Makes me want to see it more!

It's got me curious about Tiny Furniture now.
I shall be checking it out on Netflix.

There has been so much commentary on the fact that she is very much writing from/on only her direct life experience, but...I've never quite seen why that particular criticism, when levelled at an artist, indicates a creative failure.

In this instance, she has taken life events that many dismiss as mundane and generated from them something sharp, painful, and beautiful.
If you like it, watch it and marvel and be moved!
If not, run away!

Silly people.

You have to tell me what you think!

[tomgastall]

Silly people.

You have to tell me what you think!

I don't think those people are being silly.

It seems to me that a lot of people were hoping that Lena Dunham would be the voice of their generation (if we even have generations anymore post-internet), and were bummed out when her work didn't speak for them.

That reaction isn't fair to her because it puts her in a Cobain-esque position, and it's an emotional reaction - not a critical one - but it's still important, because it says something about what people feel they need right now.

The idea that an audience shouldn't influence your art is a valid one, but at this point I'm not sure if that exists anymore post-social media... or if we can apply the same vacuum concept to Girls, Friends, SITC, etc. that we would to a poem.

I'd be interested to hear Kaz & KSD's thought on whether they feel any obligation to speak for their generation - or their gender - in their work.

-Tom

[Karen Mahoney]

I'd be interested to hear Kaz & KSD's thought on whether they feel any obligation to speak for their generation - or their gender - in their work.

-Tom

That's such an interesting question, Tom. Hmm... I have to think about it, but my initial reaction is to say "no" - I don't feel an *obligation* to speak for my generation or gender. However, I do find myself *wanting* to speak for young women and girls. It's probably why I write for teenagers! It's so important - imo - to show girls that they can be strong and empowered, so that's something I specifically try to address. I'm not sure it's an obligation, though. If that makes sense. I also find myself wanting to speak for geeks/nerds, because they are my tribe. Which is why there will always be geeky characters in my fiction.

Kaz

[jenifu]

I don't think those people are being silly.

It seems to me that a lot of people were hoping that Lena Dunham would be the voice of their generation (if we even have generations anymore post-internet), and were bummed out when her work didn't speak for them.

That reaction isn't fair to her because it puts her in a Cobain-esque position, and it's an emotional reaction - not a critical one - but it's still important, because it says something about what people feel they need right now.

The idea that an audience shouldn't influence your art is a valid one, but at this point I'm not sure if that exists anymore post-social media... or if we can apply the same vacuum concept to Girls, Friends, SITC, etc. that we would to a poem.

I'd be interested to hear Kaz & KSD's thought on whether they feel any obligation to speak for their generation - or their gender - in their work.

-Tom

I don't believe that artistic endeavor is necessarily meant to exist in a vacuum.
For many creators - poets and otherwise - a consciousness that thinking, feeling minds out there are going to ingest and consider what is being presented is a critical and formative part of their process. In good balance, that relationship can help inspire, refine and even elevate their art (thus, editors).

I think that the job of an art audience is a fairly modest one: to look out for creative work that they find moving or inspiring or enthralling.
If someone is looking for an artistic voice to represent them, their sole role is to seek out someone or something that fits the bill; to that end, it seems to me that pinning all of one's hope and need for personal expression upon a selected prophet is the pinnacle of laziness.

To heap criticism upon an artist that does not fill that role or meet that expectation - that, to me, is silly (if not downright petty and foolish.)

[MIKE D]

It's got me curious about Tiny Furniture now.
I shall be checking it out on Netflix.

There has been so much commentary on the fact that she is very much writing from/on only her direct life experience, but...I've never quite seen why that particular criticism, when levelled at an artist, indicates a creative failure.

In this instance, she has taken life events that many dismiss as mundane and generated from them something sharp, painful, and beautiful.
If you like it, watch it and marvel and be moved!
If not, run away!

Silly people.

You have to tell me what you think!

Here's why I'm suspect of the racial criticism: How I Met Your Mother and Friends went YEARS depicting a white New York, and no one said a peep. Suddenly it's an issue, and it's an issue for a show that's run by a young woman that freely admits she's writing from her own limited experiences. So even though inclusion of a voice of color would be tantamount to tokenism here, because there is no writers room (Dunham writes the whole show top to bottom) for that voice to be heard as authentic, THIS is the show some people make the stand on. I really think it's less the actual issue, and more the backlash to anything perceived as "hipster".

[jenifu]

Here's why I'm suspect of the racial criticism: How I Met Your Mother and Friends went YEARS depicting a white New York, and no one said a peep. Suddenly it's an issue, and it's an issue for a show that's run by a young woman that freely admits she's writing from her own limited experiences. So even though inclusion of a voice of color would be tantamount to tokenism here, because there is no writers room (Dunham writes the whole show top to bottom) for that voice to be heard as authentic, THIS is the show some people make the stand on. I really think it's less the actual issue, and more the backlash to anything perceived as "hipster".

I feel the same.