Question: will the HUGE success of the Avengers movie motivate DC to do a JLA flick?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Depends on which Superman movie you're looking at.

The Donner Superman movie actually still holds up pretty well today. Parts of it are hokey as is the idea of turning the world backwards to reverse time but there's no denying that scene where Superman realizes Lois is dead and he can't bring her back... The sheer sadness on his face and then the cry of rage and pain as he flies into the sky are pretty human. And in the end it doesn't end with him as a "messiah" but instead as he was before -- shy, kind of quiet, not telling anyone what he has done or letting on about anything. It's back to 'work as usual'.

But, then again, we had Richard Donner at the helm there and Christopher Reeve in the starring role who managed to always make Superman just as human as Clark Kent. He always emphasized, powers or no, that he was a very grounded individual.

Part of the 'messiah' thing in Superman Returns stems from an attempt to make Superman all 'emo' and 'agsty'. To make him stand apart from humanity and bear the weight of the world. Which is exactly the WRONG direction to take with Superman.

SUPERB post!

Kudos and total agreement!

[t.c.johnson]

Uhhh, I believe that Blue Beetle TV show thing was only a rumor. IIRC the test footage of the transformation scene was actually test footage for Blue Beetle's appearance on "Smallville".

I heard Geoff Johns say that the footage that was shown was test footage for a BB television show and he specifically said NOT for Smallville.

Basically it was footage to convince execs at WB to give the show a green light, which they never did.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

I think it was Bored At 3:00 AM back over at CBR (he even moderated the Super-forum for years) who once made an observation to the effect of 'We have the tech to do the character a pretty fair amount of justice onscreen, but the number of writers/filmmakers/etc. who truly get the point of him is just pathetic.'

Truer words.

[t.c.johnson]

As far as the JLA movie, what Marvel is doing is finding what they feel are the right people for the job and trusting their instincts. (Ok, the process broke down a bit with Ed Norton.)

What WB will do is look at the Avengers, try to figure out the formula that made it such a success, try to apply that formula to a JLA movie and it will bomb.

They tried to figure out the formula for Iron Man, applied it to Green Lantern and it bombed.

They tried to figure out the formula for Batman Begins, applied it to Watchmen and it bombed.

They will eventually be trying it with the Avengers.

[Dreg]

Depends on which Superman movie you're looking at.

The Donner Superman movie actually still holds up pretty well today. Parts of it are hokey as is the idea of turning the world backwards to reverse time but there's no denying that scene where Superman realizes Lois is dead and he can't bring her back... The sheer sadness on his face and then the cry of rage and pain as he flies into the sky are pretty human. And in the end it doesn't end with him as a "messiah" but instead as he was before -- shy, kind of quiet, not telling anyone what he has done or letting on about anything. It's back to 'work as usual'.

And yet...he raises the dead. Do you realize how much that destroyed the stakes of all the subsequent movies? And Jesus was also kind of famous for being all about meekness and humility. When you're mimicking Jesus, taking on all the most perfect traits of humanity doesn't help the case.

But, then again, we had Richard Donner at the helm there and Christopher Reeve in the starring role who managed to always make Superman just as human as Clark Kent. He always emphasized, powers or no, that he was a very grounded individual.

And Jesus was also ostensibly a human being. A human being that felt sad, that got angry, that faced adversity. And he was also, like Superman, a perfect human being. All the times Superman was engaging in less than admirable behavior in the movies, he was being brainwashed by Richard Pryor. I look back on Superman 3, and I realize how cool those scenes would have been if Superman had some actual emotional connection to them. You can't have a scene where Superman gets selfish and makes bad decisions. You can have a scene where Thor does that. You can't have a scene where Batman gets drunk and hits on everybody in his Batman costume, you can have a scene where Tony Stark does that. I'm not knocking the Batman or Superman movies, but they operate on a distinctly different vibe than The Avengers, and the Avengers was the result of a particular group of people getting together, not a random bunch of faceless superheroes.

Part of the 'messiah' thing in Superman Returns stems from an attempt to make Superman all 'emo' and 'agsty'. To make him stand apart from humanity and bear the weight of the world. Which is exactly the WRONG direction to take with Superman.

To be fair, that's also the direction they took the Donner films at times, and it's certainly the direction they took Smallville. I think with a character like Superman, it's the direction that has proved to be the most successful.

[Ziggy Stardust]

So, in essence, DC treats Batman and Superman as infallible Gods more than Marvel does with Thor... which to me is why I can relate more to Marvel than DC on most occasions.

[Stressfactor]

So, in essence, DC treats Batman and Superman as infallible Gods more than Marvel does with Thor... which to me is why I can relate more to Marvel than DC on most occasions.

Again, depends on the take.

Superman II saw him give up his power and become 'mortal' for the love of a woman. Which, it might be argued was HIS personal desire. He wasn't thinking of anyone else there really except himself... maybe Lois.

And he ended up regretting the decision and he ended up having to ask for his powers back.

And Batman -- we see one of Bruce's first outings -- before he has the costume -- and he falls off a fire escape and almost gets himself caught by the GCPD. He let Scarecrow gas him with the fear toxin and he had to call his butler for help!

When the Joker gives Batman a choice between saving Dent and saving Rachel people kind of forget or gloss over the fact that Batman headed to the location the Joker said RACHEL was at. He intended to leave Dent for the GCPD. Rachel was the more important one for him. And as it turned out the Joker knew it too and he lied to him. Batman let the Joker get the better of him because of his feelings for Rachel. And it got her killed.

the comic books' "Tower of Babel" storyline was pretty much all about Batman's paranoia being used against the JLA and that fact actually broke the team for a while. Because control freak Batman couldn't fully trust his teammates.

[Ziggy Stardust]

And that shows that when DC lets their "Gods" fail or be human, the drama and story is better, IMO.

[Slewo.O]

Didn't Superman ask Batman to create those counter-measures in the first place?

[Ziggy Stardust]

For me, given that the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited toons were so popular, it should actually be EASIER for DC to make a Justice League live action movie than it was for Marvel to do the Avengers one.

I guess it comes down to intelligence, creativity, and commitment.