To Bendis, Gail, and other comic writers, about fame.

[Tyr]

Yeah. Hindsight being 20/20 is what it is. But, I think anytime you're writing the story, you really have no obligation to the audience. What you do have is an obligation to write a good story and I think writers know when the story their working on is good and when it's not.

The problem is what is good or bad is subjective, their are guidelines of course, but strictly adhering to them won't necessarily make for a good story. And I believe that the author has some obligation to their fans, sure its impossible to address every concern in a way that will make you fans happy. But completely shutting them out and not listening to them when they are trying to tell you something is paramount to career suicide.

Of course if you creating something from scratch you also creating your fanbase from scratch. Which can be both a blessing and a curse, because you don't have any fan expectations, but you also don't have an audience so you just throwing something out there in hopes that your work will find one.

Writers of well known characters don't have that luxury, they are already writing well established characters, so fans have certain expectations about the characters in question. Sure some of them are silly, like complaints about Heimdall being black in the movie. But sometimes you do something with a character that makes fans understandably want to hulk smash, see the wonder woman series pilot for how to do beloved and well known character wrong.

If you're writing for the fame you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

You do it to tell a story that you feel has to be told. You don't think of "fans" or readers or critics or board trolls, you think of the best way to tell your story. You listen to good advice, especially the ones that tell you to bring it down a few pegs, because you want to tell the best story you can and sometimes ego can get in the way of that.

The idea of NOT doing something you love because of a made up idea of the hassles of fame, writing fame at that, is just very silly.

Write.

Well of course if your writing for fame your doing it wrong, But I was talking about the perks and cost of fame, perhaps fame is a poor choice of words, not sure what else to put there, reputation maybe? Anyway, lemme ask you this, Pia, lets say hypothetically your getting a lot of negative feedback about something you wrote. Either your readers just weren't feeling it or crazy about it, or the vehemently and out right hate it. Does it ever get you down, maybe not throw you hands up and give up writing altogether, but perhaps give you feelings about scraping the whole thing and writing something else?

[Corrina]

I've suspected the same thing about J.K. Rowling since book 4.

No, she's continued to work with editors. The problem is that the beginning books in the series had more time to fervent. About the time Goblet hit, the publisher wanted a once a year schedule and Rowling did her best but the last few books suffer from overwriting--and, by that time, she was so successful that if she said "no, we have to keep this, it's important," the publisher listened. There also may not have been time for the revisions that were needed.

Just about all successful self-published writers I know (including one making six figures off Kindle sales) hire both a professional editor and a copy-editor for their books. This money comes out of their own pocket to ensure quality.

Editing is a distinct skill, it's about seeing the story the author is trying to tell and finding places where that story is covered up. It's not the same as a critique and it's the very rare person who can do it for themselves. Any beginning writer that says "I don't need an editor because they'll screw me up," has never worked with a good editor or they would know the value of good editing.

[Tyr]

Any beginning writer that says "I don't need an editor because they'll screw me up," has never worked with a good editor or they would know the value of good editing.

I think editors are something of a double edged sword, on one hand they can keep you from driving off a cliff in your mad dash for zany ideas. But on their ideas for your work might not be any better then yours, sometimes they're even worse. When working with the big 2 you don't really have that option of whether or not you work with them, they come with the job. I think what Caley is worried about is some editor is going to turn his work into something that he never intended or into something that is not. And executive meddling is as much of an unfortunate truth as much as being protected from the editors, neither one is ideal.

In any case, editors aren't fortune tellers, even the best of them cant predict how an audience is going to react to your work. This talk about editors is all very fascinating but I was really interested in what happens after the editorial process, that is the fan reaction and the writers reaction to it.

[Corrina]

No, no, Tyr.

Good editors don't impose their ideas on your work. That's not their job.

Their job is to make sure that the *author's* ideas for the work are coming through as they'd like. They might say "I feel like the interaction between X & Y halfway through the book doesn't work because I don't understand the relationship."

They don't say "put more of Y character in" or "rewrite the interaction." Just "this isn't working, what did you intend? I think there must be a better way to get it across."

Granted, DC and Marvel editors are in a unique situation because of the shared universe and because they're given plot points from on high that must be addressed. Someone who said "I'm not sure I could work in a situation where so much of my story can be changed by an overall change in the line and I'm just not fast enough on my feet to make my story work with that," isn't being unreasonable, just recognizing those conditions wouldn't work.

Someone who says "I'll don't need editing," doesn't get the value of a good, professional editor.

As for your original question, Tyr, I think Pia answered that one really well. Writers write to get the story out.

[James Patrick]

A good editor would have told Caley that even if he were right, now wouldn't be the time to say he's right, or to say it in a different way.

[James Patrick]

No, no, Tyr.

Good editors don't impose their ideas on your work. That's not their job. .

this.

[Benel Germosen]

The problem is what is good or bad is subjective, their are guidelines of course, but strictly adhering to them won't necessarily make for a good story. And I believe that the author has some obligation to their fans, sure its impossible to address every concern in a way that will make you fans happy. But completely shutting them out and not listening to them when they are trying to tell you something is paramount to career suicide.

Of course if you creating something from scratch you also creating your fanbase from scratch. Which can be both a blessing and a curse, because you don't have any fan expectations, but you also don't have an audience so you just throwing something out there in hopes that your work will find one.

Writers of well known characters don't have that luxury, they are already writing well established characters, so fans have certain expectations about the characters in question. Sure some of them are silly, like complaints about Heimdall being black in the movie. But sometimes you do something with a character that makes fans understandably want to hulk smash, see the wonder woman series pilot for how to do beloved and well known character wrong.

I disagree.

[Pia Guerra]

Well of course if your writing for fame your doing it wrong, But I was talking about the perks and cost of fame, perhaps fame is a poor choice of words, not sure what else to put there, reputation maybe? Anyway, lemme ask you this, Pia, lets say hypothetically your getting a lot of negative feedback about something you wrote. Either your readers just weren't feeling it or crazy about it, or the vehemently and out right hate it. Does it ever get you down, maybe not throw you hands up and give up writing altogether, but perhaps give you feelings about scraping the whole thing and writing something else?

Again, you don't think about how the story is going to be received because you're too focused on getting it done to care. If it's not well received, you just try again, hope your editor finds the obvious flaws you missed and is not afraid to let you know "Hey, there's a hole in this story you can drive a truck through."

Y had a lot of good responses, it also had a bunch of negative ones, specifically about how bland my art was. People are allowed their opinions and they balance out among the rest, didn't really matter either way because while the writer and editor wanted me on board I was going to keep doing my job the best I could. Responses were only important to keeping the book alive, after that, too busy to notice.

[capntightpants]

Again, you don't think about how the story is going to be received because you're too focused on getting it done to care. If it's not well received, you just try again, hope your editor finds the obvious flaws you missed and is not afraid to let you know "Hey, there's a hole in this story you can drive a truck through."

Y had a lot of good responses, it also had a bunch of negative ones, specifically about how bland my art was. People are allowed their opinions and they balance out among the rest, didn't really matter either way because while the writer and editor wanted me on board I was going to keep doing my job the best I could. Responses were only important to keeping the book alive, after that, too busy to notice.

Y would have done so much better with Jim Lee on it.

I loved your work, Pia. It was perfect.

[Linkara]

Well, Tyr asked me to weigh in here since I don't usually visit the Bendis side of the forum and I have a moderate level of fame as an internet reviewer, I can say my piece and that is to absolutely, positively, most definitely listen to everything your readers/viewers are saying. Whether we like it or not, we are creating a commercial product for consumption by thousands of people. These are not only our fans, but our CUSTOMERS. These are the people who pay money to read/watch our stuff. If we are doing something wrong, chances are we displeasing the fanbase and we should evaluate WHY we are displeasing them, since if we continue to displease them, they will stop reading/watching and encourage others to do the same. Likewise, if we are doing something right, they encourage others to become fans.

The trick is that after a while, you can eventually sift through it all and see where the most useful advice comes from. Some haters are just gonna hate and there's nothing you can do about it. However, the internet is the most direct, quickest way of receiving feedback on your work and I encourage creators to read it, for good and for bad. The customer is not always right, but they're still the customer.

As for the original question of whether or not it discourages me? Hell no. Fame feeds my massive ego and failure just encourages me to do better the next time.