I saw the Avengers--MASSIVE SPOILERS INSIDE.

[Tobias M]

Personally, I'd cycle Hulk out in favor of Pym early on, with Pym as the backup choice to take over for Hulk.

Given the immense popularity of the Hulk in this film that's not bloody likely, as it appears he's more suitable to an ensemble. Hell they might do a Hugh Jackman and make him the central character of the sequels.

[t.c.johnson]

Given the immense popularity of the Hulk in this film that's not bloody likely, as it appears he's more suitable to an ensemble. Hell they might do a Hugh Jackman and make him the central character of the sequels.

Not sure they can do that with RDJ around. But they are talking more solo Hulls with Ruffalo.

[Tobias M]

Not sure they can do that with RDJ around. But they are talking more solo Hulls with Ruffalo.

I heard that and it's a sudden change, as previously they'd pretty given up on the green lug. We might see a version of PAD's Pantheon or something to retain the ensemble feel, give Hulk someone to riff off of.

[Slewo.O]

I heard that and it's a sudden change, as previously they'd pretty given up on the green lug. We might see a version of PAD's Pantheon or something to retain the ensemble feel, give Hulk someone to riff off of.

I'll bet you they'll be testing the waters for a version based off Greg Pak's Incredible Hulks run with that new cartoon.

[ShaunN]

I just saw this. Really enjoyed it, though I’m not sure where I would put it in the pantheon of superhero movies. Near the top, but not quite there. It had a number of logical and other problems that, to someone with my mindset, figure quite large in my overall enjoyment. Still, I did enjoy the movie – the humor was great, the characters were well-handled and the overall sense of fun was a real treat.

Some observations/comments:

The storyline inadvertently underlined the limitations of the alien invasion idea in comics. The idea of superheroes repulsing alien invasions has become a common and accepted part of the genre. However, it is also an idea that does not really work well. In this film, to make the Chitauri invasion something that the Avengers could really handle, the invasion ends up being a very small-scale affair. This ends up making the aliens look kind of weak and incompetent. Any advanced human military could have done infinitely more damage in the same time that it took the Chitauri to be driven off by the Avengers. The fact that the Avengers drove off a relatively minor and rather restrained invasion force undermines the idea that the Avengers can be a deterrent to other would-be conquerors from other worlds. It sure seems like the Chitauri did not bring their A game. The next time they come, it might be en masse, with thousands of ships rather than just three flying worms. In mainstream comics, I think this problem is starting to be recognized. In the most recent FF story, a Kree armada attacking Earth is driven off by Johnny Storm’s Annihilation Wave (another armada) and, ultimately, Galactus. The heroes of Earth are mostly dealing with damage control and trying to handle a small-scale ground invasion. In the current Avengers animated series, a developing storyline revolves around how Earth is simply no match for (again) an attack from the Kree.

This observation feeds into one of my concerns about the film: this is the depowering/underpowering of Thor. In his own movie, Thor performed some pretty impressive physical feats (like using Mjolnir to create a massive earthquake in Jotunheim). But in this film, he seems extremely underpowered. One way in which this is manifested is in his battle with the Hulk. In the comics, the Hulk and Thor have always been relatively evenly matched at the physical level. These two have fought some classic battles that have established how evenly matched they are. In “The Avengers”, Thor manages to hold his own, but it is clear that he is not as strong as the Hulk. More importantly, he doesn’t use his lightning/weather powers nearly as often or as effectively as he could or, indeed, as the story might demand. The Ultimates series on which this film is partly based does involve a full-scale invasion of Earth by a formidable Chitauri battle fleet. In that story, the Ultimates’ most effective weapons are Thor and the Hulk. Thor, in fact, takes down dozens of Chitauri ships (including giant starships) with his lightning. I would argue that he should/could have done something similar in this film. The underpowering is also significant in that he was one of the few heroes capable of holding his own against Thanos when Thanos first appeared. I hope that Thor plays a comparable role in the next film. (BTW, why would just falling from 30,000 feet kill either the Hulk or Thor?)

Some of the good: the humor (I loved the Hulk slugging Thor out of the blue – that came right out of Looney Tunes!); the portrayal of the Black Widow (though she was affected by Loki’s comments to her, if her conversation with Hawkeye is any indication); the hint of Avengers Tower (though I prefer the mansion); the helicarrier.

I find the mix of Ultimates storylines with regular Marvel storylines to be interesting. I liked that SHIELD was revealed to be a less than honorable organization (though its concerns are valid) and I like that the Avengers have gone off on their own. I was afraid they would end up as a US military initiative, as in the Ultimates comics. I don’t like Hawkeye as a government assassin, but that’s more because I don’t like government assassins. BTW, in the Ultimate FF, Thanos referred to the cosmic cube as the “tessaract”, did he not?

I don’t get Loki’s plan. As Corrina pointed out, there seems no real reason why he had to let himself be captured.
I saw Thanos coming a mile away, but I’m still overjoyed that he is the next “Big Bad”!

I wish Joss had been able to keep Cap’s meeting with Peggy in the final film, but I can understand why it did not fit. I am looking forward to seeing it on the DVD.

I plan to see this again later this week.

[JTPencils]

After smashing Loki, Hulk walked away and said "PUNY GOD."

It's now a silent movie. Love this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjK9CSZwx4w

Same thing happened at my screening... so many applauding, they missed Ferrigno's one line in the movie (aside from all the yelling and growling). I knew what the line was, and I still didn't get to hear it. Guess that means more viewings!

[Benel Germosen]

I really enjoyed ScarJo as the Black Widow in this one. Anyone else notice that whenever she's alone with Banner, she's kind of terrified? Like, after she has that confrontation of the Hulk, she looks visibly shaken.

[JTPencils]

I saw the Avengers over the weekend, and I have to admit, it's a good fun film. But I (like many posted here already) had one issue.

My view is to have great heroes... one must have a phenomenal villain. Loki is a wonderful villain, but he was so poorly used here... it made his impact... to me... less then threatening. He didn't (IMO) drip evil or a threatening stance to me whatsoever. Oh he had a good speech in one scene (and let's all be honest... when he demanded that the crowd kneel... who DIDN'T also whisper "before Zod"... c'mon... admit it!!!), but that's really about it. To have the invading army show up in the last chapter of the movie, only to be rebuffed... left me with... "so where was the huge threat that requires a team effort?". Fury couldn't have known what Loki was planning on bringing to the table. Yet... "he's very desperate"... why? Does this mean that Fury's dealt with Loki and his cohorts before? There's no indication of that. So why is there this sense of earth shattering urgency without knowing what's coming on? It just didn't (for me) make a strong villain, and a need for a team of heroes to fix.

The interplay amongst the main characters... that was great, awesome. I found myself really happy at that. But I just wanted the bad guy... to be... I don't know... "evil"??? I just didn't buy it. I hate to digress... but go back to the first Die Hard... Hans Gruber was so loathsome for his actions, that you were glad to see him get it in the end. But at least for the entire film, you could see and sense the evil of his ways, and his comrades. No such sense of doom (no pun intended) here with Loki. At least for me. I'm sure most of you will disagree, and that's OK.

[JBK405]

Same thing happened at my screening... so many applauding, they missed Ferrigno's one line in the movie (aside from all the yelling and growling). I knew what the line was, and I still didn't get to hear it. Guess that means more viewings!

I was specifically listening for it on my second viewing and I still couldn't hear it over the sound in the theatre.

Benel, I think it's becuase that, in her own way, Widow is the smartest of the Avengers. She's the only one (Except maybe Thor) who has killed up close and personal, with her bare hands. Iron Man is always shooting lasers and Capain America was at war, but she's held her enemies as they died, seen their families, etc. She's the one who really understands death and she appreciates that there are times you can't outthink, outfight or outrun death, that eventually you will die. When she sees the Hulk (Or just Banner) she knows she's seeing the one thing that she's really helpless against; it's not just the power difference, it's that none of her skills would be effective (She can't talk to it. She can't persuade it or bargain or seduce) and she's terrified because she's the only character who really appreciates just how dangerous Hulk is.

I think it actually sort of fits what I said in my opening post about how everybody treated Loki; when it comes to the Hulk they all recognize that he is dangerous, but the rest of the team doesn't really fear him. Widow, as the one character who knows better, does fear him.

[Corrina]

Widow definitely has the most fatalistic viewpoint. While the others think that while they might die, they don't think they'll *lose.*

She accepts it as a distinct possibility, which is what sets her apart. I'm reminded of Ivanova's "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom."