So is 'Creep-shaming' a thing now?

[Neil C.]

I agree with this, Mac. In my pre-wife days, I would much rather be told that the woman had no interest in me, even if it was harsh, rather than not because then it becomes like Dumb and Dumber, "So you're saying there's a chance." Usually I wouldn't mind still being friends with the woman, because we obviously had something in common, but usually she was the one who was uncomfortable because in her mind "Oh god, he might ask AGAIN!" Only once, back when I was 20, did a friendship turn more intimate, and she had a lot of health-related issues and asked "Can we go back to how it was before?" I liked her enough as a person to say it was no problem, and we remained friendly though she would get into deep depressions which kept her from talking to anyone. I still try to get a hold of her and have spoken with her mom to check how she's doing. I've also been able to remain friendly with a few women I've dated, and the wife doesn't mind.

Also, some of us don't take hints. Do not try to let us down easy or not hurt our feelings. It doesn't work. It quickly becomes stringing us along in order to not be the bad guy.

Just say it, politely but firmly, as I once had to say to a guy who really liked me, "I'm sorry, really, but I have absolutely no romantic feelings for you at all, and I sincerely doubt I ever will. It's not going to happen. I'm sorry if that means we can't be friends, but it's how I feel."

Repeat as necessary. No excuses, no diversions, no stalling tactics, just out with it. Put it on the table and make it clear. Sending mixed signals in order to "not be mean" is going to make it worse.

[t.c.johnson]

Only once, back when I was 20, did a friendship turn more intimate, and she had a lot of health-related issues and asked "Can we go back to how it was before?" I liked her enough as a person to say it was no problem, and we remained friendly though she would get into deep depressions which kept her from talking to anyone. I still try to get a hold of her and have spoken with her mom to check how she's doing. I've also been able to remain friendly with a few women I've dated, and the wife doesn't mind.

I have had three friendships turn intimate.

Thing was, in each of these cases I was not interested in them at all when we first became friends. In two of those cases, we just started hanging out and when we were spending a lot of time together things just happened. IN the other case, she began hitting on me because I was the only single guy her age she knew that didn't didn't try too hard to impress her. (At first I thought she was out of my league and then got all excited when I found out she was a bigger star wars geek than I was.)

The other thing to remember...with two of them I am no longer friends with and the third....we became friends again after much drama but we don't really talk as much as we used to.

[GlitterPill]

I say this as someone who's also interested in guys. There were only two guys that I've encountered that I thought there might have been a mutual spark--first was an online thing that went to hell in a hand-basket when I found out he had flubbed his age and was almost 16; and the other after a while acted more and more like a douche and when he said that he literally believed that he was a reincarnated dragon, crazy bells just started to ring in my head.

Oh holy shit I think we dated the same guy. He also professed his love to me on the second date.


I can sympathise with the guys who are just awkward, as I am pretty awkward myself with a whole subscription of self esteem issues, which is part of the reason I've chosen not to date for a while. People are always surprised to find out I'm medicated for social anxiety disorder (which I suppose means the medication is working). I've gotten pretty okay at going up to people and talking to them, striking up conversations, even public speaking. But I'll often pick everything I've done and said apart later.

I can say with good authority that when you are obviously insecure and unhappy with yourself, the kinds of people you draw in are largely horrible people. Users, abusers, all shades of predatory types of either gender.

I think this leads to a lot of simply awkward guys to develop into truy bitter creeps. They'll start dating a woman "won" over by gifts and lavish attention, sometimes more than once, then get angry at all women when their hearts are inevitably broken. It's easier to just blame womankind than to look at their own behaivor when they keep going after the same kind of person and doing the same things.

[Treacle]

I can say with good authority that when you are obviously insecure and unhappy with yourself, the kinds of people you draw in are largely horrible people. Users, abusers, all shades of predatory types of either gender.

So true, no matter your gender.

[Patrick Gerard]

Here's another tip: Yes, be nice to them. But also be nice to others. I told my daughters, "pay no attention to how nice the guy is to you; he wants something from you. Pay attention to how he treats the waitress. How does he treat people he doesn't want something from?"

This is my date criteria. I watch how the girl treats cashiers and waiters/waitresses.

Worst date I ever had was with a girl who, no joke, said, "I hate it when I have college classes with old people. What's their deal anyway. I hate old people. They need to die."

I pointed out that I was like 24 and she clarified that she meant people over 50. I was flabbergasted and managed to say something like, "I'd love to have the time to take classes when I'm 50." She amended and said she hated old people pretending to flirt with students and I replied that as long as I wasn't physically harassed or being subjected to graphic imagery, that I find it incredibly flattering when 65 year old women hit on me.

I try to be nice to people, especially working people doing their job, and I redouble that point when I'm making first impressions with people, date or not. It seems like a simple courtesy. I not going to judge bystanders by how overweight they are or how many teeth they have or how much money they make and it's a giant red flag on a date if the person I'm with decides to when it comes to people around us.

Maybe some of that would be a turn off for dating purposes but I'm not looking for a date with the Wal-Mart greeter and I don't see a point in subjecting them to that criteria. It's absolutely bizarre when you're on a date with someone who does judge people like that.

[Morrison_Lad]

I try to be nice to everyone, regardless.

[t.c.johnson]

You're a nice guy.

[Morrison_Lad]

You're a nice guy.

I said I *try* to be nice to everyone.

Whether I succeed or not is a different question. But I do try.

[Treacle]

Speaking of creep-shaming, just ran across this article on Jezebel about the angry underground world of failed pick-up artists.

Truly, truly creepy.

[Patrick Gerard]

*sigh*

Can I just start construction on an interplenatary ark and decide who I want to save?