Do we need a law against incest?

[zemo]

This question is based on a ruling by the European court of human rights, that upheld the right of Germany to have a law against incestuous relationships this week. Here's a comment by the guardian, which raises some good points: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...against-incest

I think the greatest problem is the "we want to avoid hereditary diseases" point, which the comment makes a good point out of. Sure, it's more probable that a recessive hereditary genetic disease will come through if siblings have children. On the other hand, what is the difference between that and someone with a known family history of depression or other mental or physical impairments procreating?

Thoughts?

Also, for the sake of this thread I will have to ask for no more than one redneck joke per commentator :3

[JBK405]

Incest is actually one of four sexual actions that I feel an actual moral disgust at the thought of (Pretty much everything else, even if I have no interest in taking part in it, I've got no opposition to. If that's your kick, go for it). I try to rationalize it with the explanation that there really is a higher chance of hereditary disease, but I'm self-honest enough to realize that I'm just reaching for a reason to support my already-decided decision. My real argument essentially boils down: It's icky.

Oh, I'm also waiving my redneck joke in order to provide an opportunity for a two-joke Redneck combo from the next poster.

[zemo]

Incest is actually one of four sexual actions that I feel an actual moral disgust at the thought of (Pretty much everything else, even if I have no interest in taking part in it, I've got no opposition to. If that's your kick, go for it). I try to rationalize it with the explanation that there really is a higher chance of hereditary disease, but I'm self-honest enough to realize that I'm just reaching for a reason to support my already-decided decision. My real argument essentially boils down: It's icky.

Oh, I'm also waiving my redneck joke in order to provide an opportunity for a two-joke Redneck combo from the next poster.

You wily little man :P

That said, I will put my neck out there and say that if we allow ourselves to have a law based on its ick-factor (and I totally get where you're coming from), then we have to give ourselves a long hard look when we want to oppose people that want to make laws against homosexuality. Because THEY also only put up semi-rational arguments as a front, but you can tell that all their thinking and acting is driven by disgust.

At least, that's how I see it.

[ZimMan2]

Not gonna lie, incest doesn't have nearly the squick factor for me that it seems to have for a lot of people. I mean, yeah, it's weird, but there's a lot of sexual stuff that's infinitely weirder.

And like zemo said, I think we're traveling down a lsippery slope when we start outlawing sexual acts because of their "ick factor."

Oh, and, uh, yeah, rednecks like to fuck their cousins! Hahahahahahahahahahaha! (?)
I got nothing.

[Lester C.]

Being the quintessential beta male here, I’m going to echo the thoughts of others. As disgusting as this is, outlawing sex between consenting adults is a slippery slope that can get real ugly real fast. For thousands of years homosexual adults, interracial/interfaith couples and so on have been legally discriminated against for the same arguments used in this case.

[Ray G.]

Between cousins, I don't think it's necessary at all. There's only a small increased risk of genetic problems.

Between brother and sister, I'd say there's more of a compelling reason. Between parent and child, even when both are adults...I think everyone can see why that's repulsive on all levels and should be illegal.

[zemo]

Between cousins, I don't think it's necessary at all. There's only a small increased risk of genetic problems.

Between brother and sister, I'd say there's more of a compelling reason. Between parent and child, even when both are adults...I think everyone can see why that's repulsive on all levels and should be illegal.

Nah, between a parent and their child shouldn't be illegal because it's repulsive. It should be illegal because there is no equal footing there. One has an absolute position of power over the other. That's not healthy.

[Ray G.]

Nah, between a parent and their child shouldn't be illegal because it's repulsive. It should be illegal because there is no equal footing there. One has an absolute position of power over the other. That's not healthy.

That's really the core of why it's repulsive, yeah.

[zemo]

That's really the core of why it's repulsive, yeah.

Well, yeah, but the repulsiveness isn't the basis for the crime :P

Alas, that's discussing semantics, and there is a lack of redneck jokes! I don't know whether I should be proud of you or apalled. Bit of column A, bit of column B, I guess.

[Aiguille]

Between cousins, I don't think it's necessary at all. There's only a small increased risk of genetic problems.

Not always. I'm an identical twin. It's not uncommon, between conventions and twin study recruitment drives, for a set of twins to meet another pair of the opposite sex, and hit it off rather nicely. A resulting set of cousins would have the genetic commonality of blood siblings, and on a purely personal level, I'd be acutely conscious of that risk, lemme tell you.

Apart from the circumstance I note above, cousin marriage is fairly safe if taken in isolate. But if its habit or tradition...that's where stuff gets tricky. If cousin marriage keeps recurring among even a large family, you get Charles Darwin's observations of his own dwindling family line, and the advent of a rare, spontaneously mutated form of hemophilia as a prevalent "royal disease."

Not that I'm advocating medical risk as the formost reason for these laws. Its the power imbalance, psychological enmeshment and data from case studies that children usually learn incestuous behavior from parental abuse and grooming that begins very young, overlapping with beatings, witnessing intimate partner violence, and hard drug exposure from parents. (Remember Mackenzie Phillips' father would give her drugs before he raped her.)

Aren't lots of sexual relationships dysfunctional and/or problematic on a power level? We aren't going to make all of those illegal. So, why should incest be illegal?

All or nothing is not a good baseline from which to make law. Rather we have to judge on degree of harm and intent, just as we do with homocide.