If it's okay there, how should we take it here?

[Thequeerjock]

TBH? I have no real horse in that race but just because something is immensely problematic doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. I can enjoy Pulp Fiction or his other films while still acknowledging he plays up some pretty tired stereotypes. The trick is to not shout people down when they do take offense or try and act as though it isn't offensive just because I'm not part of the racial group being mocked or demonized.

Though I must admit I did enjoy the Iron Man 3 director flat out saying he wasn't using the Mandarin because he considered him a tired racial stereotype. Sometimes I feel like that might be the best way to go.

[RobStaeger]

TBH? I have no real horse in that race but just because something is immensely problematic doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. I can enjoy Pulp Fiction or his other films while still acknowledging he plays up some pretty tired stereotypes. The trick is to not shout people down when they do take offense or try and act as though it isn't offensive just because I'm not part of the racial group being mocked or demonized.

Ultimately, that's how I feel. If something troubles or offends you to the point where you can't enjoy something, then by all means, don't read or watch it. But there's nothing wrong with recognizing an aspect of a piece of art as offensive and continuing to enjoy the work because of its merits as a whole. For example, I enjoy reading my copies of The Spirit Archives, but the depiction of Ebony is, quite rightly, a hurdle to clear before the book can be enjoyed. It's not for me to say how offended anyone should be by it. And even moreso, I love my Terry and the Pirates collections, despite the pidgin English that Connie speaks. I can enjoy the strips in spite of it, but I understand that many people can't.

Of course, the other trick is not to consider someone who enjoys the work as condoning the activity or depiction in question. Fans of Battle Athletes are not pedophiles, nor pedophile enablers -- there's no moral component to their enjoyment of a story in spite of those aspects.

[Corrina]

I can see one big cultural difference now, having stumbled across a story about Pippi Middleton (Prince William's SIL) being in a car in France where I guess someone (her bodyguard) had a gun.

Seems to be a big scandal. I was thinking "well, did he shoot anyone? Is it a legal gun? Because an illegal gun would be bad, if fired" and "Really? this can damage her reputation that someone other than her simply *had* a gun? Huh?"

[Morrison_Lad]

I can see one big cultural difference now, having stumbled across a story about Pippi Middleton (Prince William's SIL) being in a car in France where I guess someone (her bodyguard) had a gun.

Seems to be a big scandal. I was thinking "well, did he shoot anyone? Is it a legal gun? Because an illegal gun would be bad, if fired" and "Really? this can damage her reputation that someone other than her simply *had* a gun? Huh?"

Yeah, the media made it a bigger thing than it actually was. Pippa couldn't have really faced charges, and the gun turned out to be fake. Of course, it's still illegal to brandish even a fake gun, so he could be facing charges.

But, since it included Pippa, it was like "the biggest news story of the year!" for about 5 minutes.

[Patrick Gerard]

Except it's just not true. Guns were legal to own in the UK until quite recently, and then after a school shooting the overreaction of public opinion was levered into outlawing private gun ownership overnight. Anarchy did not ensue. Been there, done that. You are provably wrong.

The reason it won't happen in the USA is because the NRA has a ridiculous amount of political clout, and greedy politicians would rather take their money than fix the country.

Well, as much as we like to act like it's not the case, our fascination with guns is rooted in our acceptance of violent overthrow of government.

You don't threaten the president without fear of reprisal and overthrow is impractical but we pretty much treat assassination of figures who subvert democracy as justifiable homicide with enough public opinion behind it and I think have this mythic idea of the common person being able to make that decision rationally, as if that's easily distinguishable from a wackjob assassin.

I think we have this fetish for the idea of an oligarch suspending elections and being assassinated by a heroic member of the working class.

It's a myth we haven't really been forced to think through.

[Slewo.O]

Isn't it also because of gun-crazy Americans having small penises an obsession with spaghetti westerns and "rugged" men.

[Patrick Gerard]

Isn't it also because of gun-crazy Americans having small penises an obsession with spaghetti westerns and "rugged" men.

Well, we're certainly not going to impress those rugged cowboys with our actual penises so we need to compensate.

[EmarAndZeb]

Isn't it also because of gun-crazy Americans having small penises an obsession with spaghetti westerns and "rugged" men.

"Classic" (a.k.a John Ford et. al.) Westerns are more quintessentially "American." Oh, sure, Americans love spaghetti westerns too, but that genre is a bunch of foreigners coming in and subverting all our glorified manifest destiny myths with their notions of moral ambiguity and the grim futility of revenge and sympathetic points of view of people besides the conquering frontiersman etc.

[Karen El]

Well, as much as we like to act like it's not the case, our fascination with guns is rooted in our acceptance of violent overthrow of government.

You don't threaten the president without fear of reprisal and overthrow is impractical but we pretty much treat assassination of figures who subvert democracy as justifiable homicide with enough public opinion behind it and I think have this mythic idea of the common person being able to make that decision rationally, as if that's easily distinguishable from a wackjob assassin.

I think we have this fetish for the idea of an oligarch suspending elections and being assassinated by a heroic member of the working class.

It's a myth we haven't really been forced to think through.

I've encountered this before. In fact this was Penn & Teller's main excuse when they defended gun rights on Bullshit. The title for once describing their views, rather than the subject they were investigating.

It's a big subject, and I don't have the time or the energy to point out all the absurdities of the position, so I'm just going to point out that this 'lofty ideal' (assuming you agree with whoever is offing the president) results in laws that allow you to take a weapon of war into a kindergarten. Perhaps when the headlines are all about dead babies, you'll rethink some of these decisions.

[JBK405]

We've had headlines like that, and the only result was the sloppy re-editing of Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker and other films to remove some "unsuitable" scenes.