Ain't no rule...but you're being disqualified anyway

[Lester C.]

I really hate the fact that we are talking about this even if I too am outraged over the story. I firmly believe that no one should be "outed" unless it's their decision and I very much doubt she came out on her own.

[Urgur the Gurgur]

OK, I wanted to ask this earlier, but forgot.

How would a woman with a more male-looking physique have an advantage over someone like this (Leila Lopes, current Miss Universe):

I'm confused by that argument, frankly. Maybe I'm missing something. But I really don't get how someone like Lopes or Irina Shayk or whoever would be at a *disadvantage* to someone with a "more male physique."

A male looking physique would definitely be a disadvantage. But if she has a feminine body naturally or surgically, then there are elements of male biology that could be seen as an advantage. Obviously everyone is different. But, in general, male bodies react better and faster to exercise, they do not retain fat with the same stubbornness or in the same areas as female bodies.

That said though. I think the Miss U patent should adopt the same rules as the IOC(with exception of new testosterone testing stipulations), and let anybody who is legally recognized as female in their respective countries compete.

[Morrison_Lad]

I really hate the fact that we are talking about this even if I too am outraged over the story. I firmly believe that no one should be "outed" unless it's their decision and I very much doubt she came out on her own.

Well, she talked about it in 2010. So, it wasn't a secret.

But Miss Universe Canada says that she said that she was born female on the entry form. I'm not sure about that without having seen the actual form, though. For all I know, it asked if she was female, and she answered yes.

[Morrison_Lad]

A male looking physique would definitely be a disadvantage. But if she has a feminine body naturally or surgically, then there are elements of male biology that could be seen as an advantage. Obviously everyone is different. But, in general, male bodies react better and faster to exercise, they do not retain fat with the same stubbornness or in the same areas as female bodies.

That said though. I think the Miss U patent should adopt the same rules as the IOC(with exception of new testosterone testing stipulations), and let anybody who is legally recognized as female in their respective countries compete.

I absolutely agree. She's a woman. They should allow all women to compete.

Hopefully, after this kerfuffle, they may re-consider their stance.

[Lady_Hawkeye]

Well, she talked about it in 2010. So, it wasn't a secret.

But Miss Universe Canada says that she said that she was born female on the entry form. I'm not sure about that without having seen the actual form, though. For all I know, it asked if she was female, and she answered yes.

That's the weird, walking on eggs legal part here (not sure how it works in other country) but she did get her surgery so after that she had her paperwork changed from "male to female" and here, it means that it goes back to your birth all the way to the present. It can leave for some bizarre moments such as where someone who would have attended an all boy school and now her diploma would be changed to state that she attended said school as a girl and with her new legal female name. Headache inducing really.

Jeez I'm not even close to being done and I'm drowing in paperwork.

Catherine

[Shurato2099]

I wonder how all of that works in the U.S. I've known a few people who've gone through the process but I have no clue how the legalities are handled.

[Morrison_Lad]

That's the weird, walking on eggs legal part here (not sure how it works in other country) but she did get her surgery so after that she had her paperwork changed from "male to female" and here, it means that it goes back to your birth all the way to the present. It can leave for some bizarre moments such as where someone who would have attended an all boy school and now her diploma would be changed to state that she attended said school as a girl and with her new legal female name. Headache inducing really.

Jeez I'm not even close to being done and I'm drowing in paperwork.

Catherine

Wow. Yeah, I can't even imagine all the situations that would pop up which you would never think of beforehand. Yikes.

It says that she started hormone treatments when she was 14 and had surgery when she was 19. She's now 23.

[Lady_Hawkeye]

I absolutely agree. She's a woman. They should allow all women to compete.

Hopefully, after this kerfuffle, they may re-consider their stance.

I also hope that when all is done that they will think about reconsidering transfolk into all of this and into society in general. Like I posted earlier, we are no longer hiding out but coming forward and it's something that will need to be considered sooner or later (hopefully very very soon).

By the way I love you guys, it's so nice to read very encouraging stuff here that actually brought some tears to my eyes (some of that probably related to those two estrogen pills I take every day but still ). It makes me realize that the fight is being won and that we are no longer alone.

Catherine

[Lady_Hawkeye]

oops, first double post here !

[Shurato2099]

Wow. Yeah, I can't even imagine all the situations that would pop up which you would never think of beforehand. Yikes.

It says that she started hormone treatments when she was 14 and had surgery when she was 19. She's now 23.

That's what a friend's partner did. Last I heard they were both out in L.A. and she was making a decent living modelling.