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Thread: Ain't no rule...but you're being disqualified anyway

  1. #1
    Made JBK405's Avatar
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    Ain't no rule...but you're being disqualified anyway

    Jenna Talackova, who was going to be in the Miss Universe Canada finals in May (Tangent: I had no idea there was a Miss Universe Canada pageant...unless it's the "local" round of Miss Universe in general, I'm not really up-to-date on the current pageant format), has been disqualified because she was born a man. The rationale has been that every contestant needs to be "naturally born female," but there's no actual rule in the rulebooks that says any such thing.

    Now, I've been generally opposed to beauty pageants for a few years (All those generic reasons that people parrot every now and then, expoitation and whatnot, even though I've never taken the time to actually study the pageant process and have no actual "facts" sustaining exploitation) but this is (As with all exclusion) simply offensive. If the pageant measures "grace" and she has "grace," then what's the problem? Are they afraid that she'll win and show up the "real" women? There's no rules against plastic surgery or other body modification, so "natural" is out the window, so why is this worthy of disqualification?

    To be completely fair and accurate, this is a private enterprise and, as a private enterprise, it has the right to be as close-minded and judgemental as they want to be (I think), but it's still abhorrent. The pageant isn't examining the contestants on a chromosonal level, so the competition itself isn't impacted in any functional way. She's competed in beauty pageants as a woman before, so it's not an unprecendeted issue. It's just...off.

    EDIT: Apparently, the requirement that a Miss Universe pageant contestant be a "natural born female" is an actual rule that's on the books, not something that was made up on the spot. It's still wrong, but I suppose my title is inaccurate now.
    Last edited by JBK405; 03-27-2012 at 07:32 AM.
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    Right Guy AthenAltena's Avatar
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    Re: Ain't no rule...but you're being disqualified anyway

    *facepalm*

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    Re: Ain't no rule...but you're being disqualified anyway

    It's absolutely wrong, and may even be illegal. I'm not up-to-date on Canada's laws, but I wouldn't be surprised if this violates their Charter of Rights, or whatever it's called (I used to listen to a lot of CBC, but that was years ago).

    But clearly, this is just wrong and immoral. There's no reason whatsoever that she should have been disqualified.

    BY the way, not that this matters as far as the story is concerned, but it's just an observation: She's very beautiful.

    Oh, and JBK: Yes, this is to determine who represents Canada in the Miss Universe Pageant.

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    I don't mean to sound nasty to transsexuals in general but I know that here in the UK, a transsexual is always recognised as what they were born as, although they can change their name and what sex they want to be recognised as, including "indeterminate" but they always remain their original sex in the eyes of the law.

    The truth is that the entrant is a man, although they have had a sex change, which is more of a cosmetic procedure than an actual medical procedure.

    I'm all for people being treated fairly but this is one step too far, I'm afraid.

    By all means, have a contest for transsexuals if you like but it isn't going to work for them to enter the mainstream beauty pageants as women.
    Independence... Nah!!!

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    Re: Ain't no rule...but you're being disqualified anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison_Lad View Post
    I'm not up-to-date on Canada's laws...
    And neither are 99% of the politicians in Canada.

    I'm more surprised that GLAAD (or the equivalant in Canada) hasn't spoken up yet. This goes beyond wrong...I don't understand how anyone can say to someone that they aren't 'good enough' or not 'woman enough' or this or that...whatever the case may be. I don't get how anyone can even think that.

    And your right Morrison_Lad, it's the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

    "Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot." Lucy Lawless

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    Re: Ain't no rule...but you're being disqualified anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeto View Post
    I don't mean to sound nasty to transsexuals in general but I know that here in the UK, a transsexual is always recognised as what they were born as, although they can change their name and what sex they want to be recognised as, including "indeterminate" but they always remain their original sex in the eyes of the law.

    The truth is that the entrant is a man, although they have had a sex change, which is more of a cosmetic procedure than an actual medical procedure.

    I'm all for people being treated fairly but this is one step too far, I'm afraid.

    By all means, have a contest for transsexuals if you like but it isn't going to work for them to enter the mainstream beauty pageants as women.
    Woh, woh. A sex change is WAY more than "cosmetic." She's had hormone treatments, surgery, et al. In every way she's a woman, just like any other woman, regardless of what sex she was born as. Right now, today, she's a woman.

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    Re: Ain't no rule...but you're being disqualified anyway

    it's a beauty and talent contest, not a reproduction contest. she should be allowed to compete.

  8. #8
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    Re: Ain't no rule...but you're being disqualified anyway

    What jhota said.

    Pageants (Which, I suppose aren't technically beauty pageants at all anymore) measure physical appearance, response to questions, skills, poise, etc. She doesn't have an advantage over other contestants, neither does she have a disadvantage, at this point in time she's on the same level as every other contestant.
    Last edited by JBK405; 03-27-2012 at 05:03 AM.
    Life is like a roller coaster. It has its ups and downs, but if you sit back and relax you get a heck of a ride.

  9. #9

    Re: Ain't no rule...but you're being disqualified anyway

    That's horrible. She should be allowed to compete, without a doubt.

  10. #10
    Right Guy KJ!'s Avatar
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    Re: Ain't no rule...but you're being disqualified anyway

    Over here, you get issued a new birth certificate.

    So if it was here, she'd be a perfectly valid candidate, as she'd have a birth certificate that listed the correct/current gender.
    "There seems to be something in the human condition that makes people dislike people that they think are different. If we could get rid of that, it'd be a better world" - Stan Lee

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