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Thread: Wonder Woman #7 Spoilers...WOW!

  1. #41
    Gunsel t.c.johnson's Avatar
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    Re: Wonder Woman #7 Spoilers...WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by zemo View Post
    Not if this being the source of their power doesn't come from a situation that can not possible be interpreted as a position of dominance. As an example, black slave labour was the source of the American South's economic power, but no one could possibly derrive a positive outlook about the importance of blacks in that society from that. Feminism isn't 100% self-sustained women that live without any male contact whatsoever. That is the very concept of a failed society, one that is not flexible enough to incorporate a big part of the population. Feminism is having both sexes stand in equal terms, acknowledging each other's importance.
    For many, feminism menas that they don't need men. Women can enjoy men's company, can chose to be with them and enjoy their lives but they don't need them. (Although feminism is a concept that will mean different things to different people.)

    Men being the source of their power is not about balance.

    And I wouldn't write stories about the south and then claim it is about stories about black empowerment.

    Amazons are now rapists and they are now slavers. They are villains, and thus I would argue are no longer symbols of feminism.

  2. #42
    Consiliere Keith P.'s Avatar
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    Re: Wonder Woman #7 Spoilers...WOW!

    Meh. It's a horror comic, and it was horrifying imagery that was inline with the roots of the amazonian myth.

    Realistically, the Amazon's are bound to be full of all kinds of crazy, an isolated, mono-gendered society, that routinely has congress with the supernatural?

    I think the point of it was that Wonder Woman was horrified by it, she has risen above it to reject their barbaric misandric ways.

    People are upset for two reasons, some people hate change, remakes, retcons, or reinterpretations, especially to things that they have an fan investment in. And this is a pretty drastic change.

    And then there are going to be the people that simply are going to shout chauvinism and misogyny at the slightest indication that a woman or women are capable of doing very bad things.

  3. #43

    Re: Wonder Woman #7 Spoilers...WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by t.c.johnson View Post
    For many, feminism menas that they don't need men. Women can enjoy men's company, can chose to be with them and enjoy their lives but they don't need them. (Although feminism is a concept that will mean different things to different people.)

    Men being the source of their power is not about balance.

    And I wouldn't write stories about the south and then claim it is about stories about black empowerment.

    Amazons are now rapists and they are now slavers. They are villains, and thus I would argue are no longer symbols of feminism.
    Absolutely true. And with "source of their power" I rather meant along the lines of cattle, or slaves, for that matter.

    Also, I never said that in feminism women still need men. I claimed (and still stand by) that feminism that sees its goal in the exclusion of males from a society is ultimately a failed. It would be as much of a failure as the people that try to keep Jews away, or people of other races, and so on. That is also why the Amazons we see in this new DC Universe, as they are right now, represent a failed feminism. Yes, women are free to do as they please in this society. But this freedom is being achieved by the oppression of men, and thus hollow. In this regard I can also see how this portrayal of the Amazons would be seen as sexist, as it shows a distorted and wrong image of a feminist society, which in turn could strengthen the "us vs them" mentality often seen when men and women demonize feminism.

    In short, I can see how some people might think of these Amazons as yet another type of sexist onslaught in comics. I find the story point of view an interesting one, but I acknowledge that in this regard people feeling their basic human rights being intruded upon trumps my interest.

  4. #44
    Right Guy AthenAltena's Avatar
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    Re: Wonder Woman #7 Spoilers...WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
    And then there are going to be the people that simply are going to shout chauvinism and misogyny at the slightest indication that a woman or women are capable of doing very bad things.
    I'm gonna contest this one. While the idea that female sexual predators exist is still a hard thing to accept, turning an entire society of women into a society of rapists is a slap in the face and to me is just as bad as completely denying the possibility. If that's really what they were going for they ran over a cliff with it.

  5. #45
    Right Guy sunbird's Avatar
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    Re: Wonder Woman #7 Spoilers...WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by AthenAltena View Post
    In which case he missed the part where everyone in the story thought they were nuts too, and there were more reasonable women around them. Here it's played dead straight.
    No question. The idea that a women only society would be utopia was torn to shreds by that book, but in a way that wasn't clumsy or insulting like this reveal.

  6. #46

    Re: Wonder Woman #7 Spoilers...WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by AthenAltena View Post
    I'm gonna contest this one. While the idea that female sexual predators exist is still a hard thing to accept, turning an entire society of women into a society of rapists is a slap in the face and to me is just as bad as completely denying the possibility. If that's really what they were going for they ran over a cliff with it.
    Actually, now that I think about it, was there actually rape? It's being stated that the sexual encoutners were peaceful, only afterwards it got ugly. I don't know whether a concensual encounter with an unhappy ending qualifies as rape, as despicable as it may be...

  7. #47
    Right Guy AthenAltena's Avatar
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    Re: Wonder Woman #7 Spoilers...WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by sunbird View Post
    No question. The idea that a women only society would be utopia was torn to shreds by that book, but in a way that wasn't clumsy or insulting like this reveal.
    Yeah. The main thing was that the crazy Amazons were tempered by the fact that the vast majority of them were not like that. Here, all the Amazons are like that. It's like how in The Wire (one of my favorite shows) there are some characters who are stereotypical black gangsters and drug dealers. But because not all of them are like that it's not offensive, and the entire thing is a commentary on the drug war and race.

    Here it's just clumsy.

  8. #48
    Right Guy AthenAltena's Avatar
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    Re: Wonder Woman #7 Spoilers...WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by zemo View Post
    Actually, now that I think about it, was there actually rape? It's being stated that the sexual encoutners were peaceful, only afterwards it got ugly. I don't know whether a concensual encounter with an unhappy ending qualifies as rape, as despicable as it may be...
    Okay, maybe not "rape" in the literal sense of the word (though the phrasing makes the consent kind of dubious), but it's still sexual exploitation. Patrick Bateman may have consensually had sex with the prostitutes in American Psycho at first (at least in the movie, haven't read the book, which I hear is far more disturbing), but he still abused and killed them afterward.

  9. #49
    Gunsel t.c.johnson's Avatar
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    Re: Wonder Woman #7 Spoilers...WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
    I think the point of it was that Wonder Woman was horrified by it, she has risen above it to reject their barbaric misandric ways.
    But that is the thing. Many of the people who are against feminism believe that to be pro-women you have to be anti male. Check out the Jerry Falwell quote somebody posted above.

    So why re-inforce that stereo type by turning the feminist symbols into men killers and child slavers?

  10. #50
    Right Guy AthenAltena's Avatar
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    Re: Wonder Woman #7 Spoilers...WOW!

    Also I feel the need to reference this:


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