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Thread: The Killing of Treyvon Martin

  1. #1401
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    Re: The Killing of Treyvon Martin

    Quote Originally Posted by Twelvecents View Post
    Trayvon had no way of knowing whether the danger to him was over or not.

    If I understand the course of events correctly, Trayvon had tried to evade Zimmerman, failed and at that point had recourse of either trying again to elude him or confront him. Confronting Zimmerman on his potentially threatening behavior is not an unreasonable course of action. Zimmerman going back to his vehicle can reasonably be viewed as potentially increasing the threat; Zimmerman could have been going to his truck to retrieve a weapon of some kind.

    Ultimately, I have to come down strongly on the side that says the single precipitating event in all this is Zimmerman's decision to pursue Trayvon. Remove that single, wholly unnecessary action from the equation and there is no incident. The confrontation began when Zimmerman openly followed Trayvon; a tacit assertion of authority and unequivocal challenge to Trayvon's right to be where he was. That was the pebble that started the avalanche.
    I can appreciate that point of view. I can see how a person in his position might see that. As I see it though, this situation would not justify violent action on Martin's part. Zimmerman could have been following him in case of mistaken identity for all Martin knew. Hitting him would not be a justifiable action. Others may reasonably so. I would not.

    My main contention is that it would not make him liable for murder. I think there would be other charges you could still get him on.

    Zimmerman could very well be full of shit in regards to the events he lays out. He does not come off as the most reliable person at this time.
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  2. #1402
    Gunsel I've Got the Monkeys's Avatar
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    Re: The Killing of Treyvon Martin

    ABC news:

    Trayvon Martin Video Shows No Blood or Bruises on George Zimmerman
    A police surveillance video taken the night that Trayvon Martin was shot dead shows no blood or bruises on George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain who says he shot Martin after he was punched in the nose, knocked down and had his head slammed into the ground.

    The surveillance video, which was obtained exclusively by ABC News, shows Zimmerman arriving in a police cruiser. As he exits the car, his hands are cuffed behind his back. Zimmerman is frisked and then led down a series of hallways, still cuffed.

    Zimmerman, 28, is wearing a red and black fleece and his face and head are cleanly shaven. He appears well built, hardly the portly young man depicted in a 2005 mug shot that until a two days ago was the single image the media had of Zimmerman.

    Police Video Surveillance of George Zimmerman

    The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose, and after medical attention it was decided that he was in good enough condition to travel in a police cruiser to the Sanford, Fla., police station for questioning.

    His lawyer later insisted that Zimmerman's nose had been broken in his scuffle with 17-year-old Martin.

    In the video an officer is seen pausing to look at the back of Zimmerman's head, but no abrasions or blood can be seen in the video and he did not check into the emergency room following the police questioning.

    Zimmerman was not arrested although ABC News has learned that the lead homicide investigator filed an affidavit urging Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter. The prosecutor, however, told the officer to not file the charge because there was not enough evidence for conviction.

    Zimmerman said he was heading back to his car when Martin attacked him. His lawyer, Craig Sonner, said his client felt "one of them was going to die that night," when he pulled the trigger.

    Martin's girlfriend, who was on the phone with him in his final moments, told ABC News in an exclusive interview that she has not been interviewed by police, despite Martin telling her he was being followed.

    The 16-year-old girl, who is only being identified as DeeDee, recounted the final moments of her conversation with Martin before the line went dead.

    "When he saw the man behind him again he said this man is going to do something to him. And then he said this man is still behind him and I said run," she said.

    Phone records obtained by ABC News show that the girl called Martin at 7:12 p.m., five minutes before police arrived, and remained on the phone with Martin until moments before he was shot.

    DeeDee said Martin turned around and asked Zimmerman why he was following him.

    "The man said what are you doing around here?" DeeDee recalled Zimmerman saying.

    She said she heard someone pushed into the grass before the call was dropped.

    Zimmerman, who had called 911, was asked by the dispatcher if he was following the teen. When Zimmerman replied that he was, the dispatcher said, "We don't need you to do that."

    Martin's death has sparked protests across the country and prompted President Obama to say that if he had a son, he would look like Martin.

    Over the past few days, leaks have emerged suggesting Martin was dogged by discipline problems.

    Martin had been slapped with a 10 day school suspension after a bag with suspected marijuana was found in his backpack, Benjamin Crump, the family's attorney, said.

    Last year the teen was suspended for spraying graffiti on school grounds. The Miami Herald reported that the school guard who stopped him searched his backpack and found 12 items of women's jewelry and a flathead screw driver that the guard believed to be a "burglary implement." But Martin was never charged or specifically disciplined for the incident.

    Crump alleged that the Sanford police had leaked damaging information about Martin in order to muddy the case, calling it a "conspiracy." Crump called the school disciplinary problems "irrelevant" to the case that "an unarmed 17 year kid was killed."
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/georg...lance-16024475
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  3. #1403
    Hard Boiled silverboy's Avatar
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    Re: The Killing of Treyvon Martin

    So either ABC is full of shit or there's been some kind of cover-up?
    - mike


  4. #1404
    Gunsel I've Got the Monkeys's Avatar
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    Re: The Killing of Treyvon Martin

    Quote Originally Posted by silverboy View Post
    So either ABC is full of shit or there's been some kind of cover-up?
    I tried to post the video, but i linked it at the bottom. Have a look.
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  5. #1405
    BenBo In Crowd Kedd's Avatar
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    Re: The Killing of Treyvon Martin

    Quote Originally Posted by CPA View Post
    Wow - I always love how the dialogue on this board descends into someone calling someone else a racist because the high minded liberals dont like to discuss things.
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    You are too smart for me Kedd.
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  6. #1406

    Re: The Killing of Treyvon Martin

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Spock View Post
    I can appreciate that point of view. I can see how a person in his position might see that. As I see it though, this situation would not justify violent action on Martin's part. Zimmerman could have been following him in case of mistaken identity for all Martin knew. Hitting him would not be a justifiable action. Others may reasonably so. I would not.

    My main contention is that it would not make him liable for murder. I think there would be other charges you could still get him on.

    Zimmerman could very well be full of shit in regards to the events he lays out. He does not come off as the most reliable person at this time.
    I can agree that Trayvon initiating an attack on Zimmerman as a response to the level of threat presented can fairly be debated. The problem with that of course is no one but Zimmerman and Trayvon could actually relate how events occurred, from all the intangibles like aggressive posture and tone of voice to who threw or tried to throw the first blow.

    If this latest story about a police video showing Zimmerman unbloodied and unmarked is an accurate representation of Zimmerman and there's no mitigating facts like attention from medics or others, Zimmerman's lone account of events becomes even more questionable.

    Edit -

    WOW. IF Zimmerman is wearing the same clothes as when the incident took place (they wouldn't have been confiscated as evidence before he even got to the station, would they?) I'm seeing a lot of possible holes in the story as presented by Zimmerman and the police.

    - No visible blood stains anywhere on Zimmerman's clothing.
    - No visible grass stains anywhere on Zimmerman's clothing.
    - No visible blood, abrasions or dressing anywhere on Zimmerman's head or face.

    The quality of the video is much better than I'd hoped for, but the resolution is such that some things could possibly not be visible, but this really feels like a bad can of worms has been opened for Zimmerman and the police.
    Last edited by Twelvecents; 03-28-2012 at 04:25 PM.



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  7. #1407
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    Re: The Killing of Treyvon Martin

    Quote Originally Posted by silverboy View Post
    So either ABC is full of shit or there's been some kind of cover-up?
    There might be a cover-up, but not to protect Zimmerman, but rather to cover-up their incompetence.
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  8. #1408
    Hard Boiled silverboy's Avatar
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    Re: The Killing of Treyvon Martin

    Shit, if that's him, he looks pretty damn okay.
    - mike


  9. #1409
    GODFATHER Matt Jay's Avatar
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    Re: The Killing of Treyvon Martin

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolish Mortal View Post
    There might be a cover-up, but not to protect Zimmerman, but rather to cover-up their incompetence.
    We've already seen them try to cover up their incompetence by selectively leaking info about Trayvon's suspension and their side of what went down with the DA. It's certainly in keeping with the department's character.

  10. #1410
    BenBo In Crowd Kedd's Avatar
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    Re: The Killing of Treyvon Martin

    Did Zimmerman shoot Martin while he was supposedly pinned down by the kid? If that's the case...one would expect at least some visible blood splatter on Zimmerman's shirt in that video right? Unless he, for some reason, changed shirts but not jackets around the time he was being questioned by police on the scene and/or being treated for either a bloody or broken nose and lacerations of some kind that supposedly required stitches to the back of his head.
    Quote Originally Posted by CPA View Post
    Wow - I always love how the dialogue on this board descends into someone calling someone else a racist because the high minded liberals dont like to discuss things.
    Quote Originally Posted by CPA View Post
    You are too smart for me Kedd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post


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