Y'know, in some ways I think Katy Perry is more like Madonna was than Lady Gaga

[AndrewCrossett]

My generation listened to crap like "I Ran," so I'm not one to throw stones at whatever kids listen to these days.

Don't forget "Wake Me Up Before You Go Go!".

The thing is, those songs were actual people making music according to their talents. You could decide whether you liked or hated A Flock of Seagulls or Wham! based on your assessment of their talent, as demonstrated in their recordings. Now, though, you can't really make that call because you get no idea from the finished product how much talent the performer has. That could be Katy Perry singing, or it could be the girl who delivered the sandwiches to the studio for lunch. Or the guy who delivered them, for that matter. The real Katy Perry could sound like Barbra Streisand or like Fran Drescher with a cold. Everything is homogenized to sound the same.

If you can't sing well, you shouldn't get credit for singing well. Learn to sing better, or get another job that you can do well. Just don't take the credit for a machine's accomplishments.

Superbia sine factum.

[BClayMoore]

The thing is, those songs were actual people making music according to their talents. You could decide whether you liked or hated A Flock of Seagulls or Wham! based on your assessment of their talent, as demonstrated in their recordings. Now, though, you can't really make that call because you get no idea from the finished product how much talent the performer has. That could be Katy Perry singing, or it could be the girl who delivered the sandwiches to the studio for lunch. Or the guy who delivered them, for that matter. The real Katy Perry could sound like Barbra Streisand or like Fran Drescher with a cold. Everything is homogenized to sound the same.

If you can't sing well, you shouldn't get credit for singing well. Learn to sing better, or get another job that you can do well. Just don't take the credit for a machine's accomplishments.

Superbia sine factum.

Pop records have always been about creating a product, not about "who can sing best."

The only "talent" that matters in that case is the ability to craft a great single, no matter how it's done. I don't really think Wham! were somehow more pure than Katy Perry. They were using every trick in the bag to craft hit singles, just as she does.

We had a huge Monkees thread earlier, and the corporate approach to their singles resulted in some fucking brilliant records.

-BCM

[AndrewCrossett]

If George Michael or the Monkees couldn't sing, they couldn't have made hit records.

Katy Perry... maybe she can sing and maybe she can't. You'd never know by her records.

In that respect, I believe any song made without autotune is more "pure" than any song made with it... regardless of which one sounds better.

I miss the days when I could have said, "Wow, Fireworks is a good song. Katy Perry is a really good singer." Because now, those two statements do not necessarily follow from each other. Fireworks may be a good song, but who knows how good a singer Katy Perry is?

I know, I'm rapidly turning into Dana Carvey's Grumpy Old Man character... "I'm old, and I'm not happy. I don't like the way things are today compared to the way they used to be." But, I guess that's the way it goes. I'll be wearing sandals with black socks and listening to Pat Boone any day now.

[Ziggy Stardust]

The outfit is only complete if a Speedo is on.

[RobStaeger]

Even if it's not Katy Perry's talent completely responsible for the vocal track on "Firework" (although I listened to the acoustic track Ziggy posted, and it's not like she's a horrible singer or anything), someone talented is behind it.

But there's no reason you should listen to it. Great music (and great TV, great movies, and great comics) are more accessible than ever before, so griping about this pop star or that seems more ridiculous and futile than ever.

[AndrewCrossett]

Great music (and great TV, great movies, and great comics) are more accessible than ever before

True... you just have to look for it quite a bit harder than you used to.

My prediction for commercial pop music is that within 5-10 years, music will be credited primarily to the producer, not the performer. The singer and musicians will just be hired guns. Eventually, they will be replaced entirely by completely synthesized tracks. I'll actually be happier with that. At least it will be less phony than the current situation. Real "meat musicians" and bands will still be out there doing their thing, but they'll be a small, specialized subset of music, a lot like jazz has become today.

[RobStaeger]

True... you just have to look for it quite a bit harder than you used to.

Not at all. You used to have to go somewhere to find it. Now it's all available immediately in your home. It's so much easier to find something off the beaten path, there's no comparison.

My prediction for commercial pop music is that within 5-10 years, music will be credited primarily to the producer, not the performer. The singer and musicians will just be hired guns. Eventually, they will be replaced entirely by completely synthesized tracks. I'll actually be happier with that. At least it will be less phony than the current situation. Real "meat musicians" and bands will still be out there doing their thing, but they'll be a small, specialized subset of music, a lot like jazz has become today.

I don't see it going that way, simply because hyping the producer is anathema to marketing the music. Aficionados will know, and certain producers' profiles will rise because of it (such as, say, Timbaland's already has), but when it comes down to promoting the music, you want the "face" to be doing the interviews and stuff. They're hired in part for their charisma, and charisma is for selling.

[Weeto]

I always liked the way she looked but maybe that's just my taste and before you say anything, I'm one of those guys that is obsessed with the face and not so much the body. I notice the face before I notice anything else. I've heard guys being critical of women who have nice facial features and look OK generally but because they might be carrying 10 pounds more than is ideal some guys will think they're horrible yet they'll drool over a woman with huge boobs, a tiny waist and a face that looks like Mike Tyson has been using it as a punching bag.

Katy Perry does have kinda strange eyes but I think they're nice rather than weird. I find her cute and although her music isn't my taste I find it corny but fun when I hear the occasional song.

I'm glad she got rid of Russell Brand as I hated the guy from the first time I saw him. I actually thought he was gay for years (not that I have anything against that but his outlandish appearance and behaviour at times made me think this way) until all that crap involving him calling Andrew Sachs (a German born actor best known for playing Manuel in Fawlty Towers, a 1970s British sitcom) on his radio programme and discussing a sexual relationship between himself and Sachs' granddaughter which led to him being fired by the BBC and Jonathan Ross, another BBC personality at the time, leaving later on after having a suspension from his normal programmes. Brand is one of the most annoying and worthless people on British TV, radio or any other media. He is a conceited little prick who looks like he has been used as a toilet brush in a curry house. How anyone could think he is attractive or funny, I just don't understand.

Katy Perry is certainly better off without a destructive influence like Brand. He'll probably end up dead at 40 or so and I can't say that I'll miss his brain dead yabbering, excessive foul language and vile look.

[AndrewCrossett]

Not at all. You used to have to go somewhere to find it. Now it's all available immediately in your home. It's so much easier to find something off the beaten path, there's no comparison.

You don't have to go anywhere physically to find it, but you have to know where to look online... and you have to know what you're looking for first. I can't remember the last time I was introduced to a new song I liked by hearing it on the radio or on TV. The kinds of music I like don't get airplay. Maybe if I subscribed to Sirius or something and chose a channel I like... but the day will never come that I pay money to listen to the radio.

I've gotten interested in a couple bands I saw play on Saturday Night Live in the last few years, but that's the closest thing.

[RobStaeger]

You don't have to go anywhere physically to find it, but you have to know where to look online... and you have to know what you're looking for first. I can't remember the last time I was introduced to a new song I liked by hearing it on the radio or on TV. The kinds of music I like don't get airplay. Maybe if I subscribed to Sirius or something and chose a channel I like... but the day will never come that I pay money to listen to the radio.

I've gotten interested in a couple bands I saw play on Saturday Night Live in the last few years, but that's the closest thing.

I hardly ever listen to music radio anymore, and never listen to commercial radio at all. But services like Pandora are pretty good at extrapolating what I tell them I like into tracks by artists I've never heard of. (I tell it "Ray Charles, Tom Waits and Taj Mahal." It gives me all that, but plenty more...) And, of course, there are tons more radio stations at my fingertips than ever before. I've moved beyond the broadcast range of my old standby, WXPN, in Philly -- but I can stream it online whenever I like. And they have not just one stream, but four different ones (two wide-ranging main feeds, plus two more with a little more focus). Plus, I can listen to a station like WWOZ in New Orleans, where I've never lived, but whose DJs curate fantastic music that's right up my alley, but I'd never have had access to before.

It takes a little trial and error to find a station you like... but the rewards are so much greater than ever before. And there's nothing at stake but a couple mouse clicks and a little time.

But most new artists I like, I find through festivals. I hit a few music festivals every year -- Jazzfest, Philly Folk Fest, Crawfish Fest, etc. -- and get introduced to some great music, played live while I dance or have a beer. It's a rare festival that I don't walk away from with a new favorite or two.

Anyway, all of the above works for me pretty well, with the only drawback being, when a thread like this came up about Ke$ha in the last week or so, I saw a picture and realized that whenever I saw the name Ke$ha, I had been picturing someone else. Nicki Minaj, I think, but who knows? The pages I skip in Entertainment Weekly all blur together.