The ATHEISM Thread

[The Zevad]

Yeah I hear people say stuff like this a lot. "Don't stress over that. God will take care it."

No, God will not take care of it. Even if I were religious, I wouldn't take such lackadaisical stance to problems.

Quoted again from the Book of Bender:

You can't count on God for jack! He pretty much told me so Himself.

[Hate_Prime]

I think the creation myth is a bunch of mumbo jumbo too, but if you are going to talk about it, get it right. The robot you made would only be able to do what you programmed it to do. The Christians believe God gave them free will. The people that chose their actions, are responsible for them.

Also, your milk analogy does not work. It would be more akin to saying, I have this kick ass house, and you can stay in it rent free, and use everything in it like it was your own, but stay out of my bedroom. Everything might as well be yours, but don't fucking go into my room.

I disagree.

Adam and Eve were created quite literally ignorant, with little to no knowledge of the world around them. They had zero experience and context for anything. They were self aware, have the capacity to learn and were curious, but their "education" amounted to little more than here's a couple rules and don't break them because I said so or else. Or else what? Leave the garden? They will suffer? What would that even mean to them?

They were put in an essentially strange alien environment to work things out for themselves. The one who created (again, created) these living beings and put them in that situation is responsible for them. Adam an Eve were unjustly made to suffer for their creator's irresponsibilty and ego.

[Foolish Mortal]

I disagree.

Adam and Eve were created quite literally ignorant, with little to no knowledge of the world around them. They had zero experience and context for anything. They were self aware, have the capacity to learn and were curious, but their "education" amounted to little more than here's a couple rules and don't break them because I said so or else. Or else what? Leave the garden? They will suffer? What would that even mean to them?

They were put in an essentially strange alien environment to work things out for themselves. The one who created (again, created) these living beings and put them in that situation is responsible for them. Adam an Eve were unjustly made to suffer for their creator's irresponsibilty and ego.

And that's when God's "omniscience" starts to crumble. If God is supposed to be all-knowing, then God shouldn't make mistakes because God is supposed to have the answers to all questions, but if God can make mistakes, then God isn't perfect, and if God's not perfect, then God's judgments can be flawed, and thus God isn't any better than his/her own creations.

[Hate_Prime]

What's even up with that goddamn fruit of knowledge? Knowledge of good and evil? As in, Adam and Eve actually had no concept of morality and ethics before they ate the fucking apple? They were curious and had free will but no ethics, and God expected them to follow rules? And why were they all of a sudden ashamed of being naked? Is the implication that viewing a naked body is evil? (it's religion, of course it is) But they were naked the whole time and God was okay with it. In fact, that's how God is supposed to look like, right? (but why would good even have naughty bits in the first place? Or even knees and elbows and a nose and ass cheeks and ect.) Did Adam and Eve gain the mechanism to feel shame before or after eating the fruit? Likely after but even if they had it before, they had no morals so nothing could ever fuel that shame producing part of their brain. Man, Adam and Eve were some strange form of functional psychotics.

After they were exiled from Eden, if I recall correctly, God shoved a flaming sword in the path back to Eden as a no trespassing sign. So did that fruit also give the knowledge of tools, metallurgy, smelting, blacksmithing and all that for Adam and Eve to recognize what the fuck a sword is? (Why does God have swords?) And fire! Must have been the first time they saw fire. Maybe they made fire in Eden but I don't remember. I mean, I assume they never cooked anything since even predatory animals lived off nuts and berries or whatever there. Eden probably had the same environmental control magics Noah's ark had so they might have not required fire for warmth. Anyway, good thing Adam and Eve were able to discover/invent fire making, tools, shelter, the cycle of the seasons, farming, animal husbandry and many more I'm sure within their lifetime. You'ld think they'd die of exposure within a couple weeks. Way to go human cleverness (or magic fruit)!

Clearly this is a realistic and accurate account of the origins of man passed down through oral traditions from Adam and Eve times until someone thought to write it down.

[Jason California]

And that's when God's "omniscience" starts to crumble. If God is supposed to be all-knowing, then God shouldn't make mistakes because God is supposed to have the answers to all questions, but if God can make mistakes, then God isn't perfect, and if God's not perfect, then God's judgments can be flawed, and thus God isn't any better than his/her own creations.

Unless God set them up to fall. It is not so hard to imagine that this was part of Its (I have a problem thinking of God in terms of He/Him unless there is a stated female counterpart) plan all the time.

[Foolish Mortal]

Unless God set them up to fall. It is not so hard to imagine that this was part of Its (I have a problem thinking of God in terms of He/Him unless there is a stated female counterpart) plan all the time.

If God set up his creations to fail, then why punish them when God already knows what the outcome will be? What's the point? So much for God's benevolence.

[Ray G.]

Just based on a reading of the text and my psychological background, I always saw the Adam and Eve story as less of a punishment and more of a test of these strange new creatures he had created.

From what I've heard, the Garden of Eden was basically a zoo. And in it, Adam and Eve essentially lived like kept animals. The tree of knowledge represented the desire and curiosity for something more, and when they chose to partake in it rather than being satisfied being fed and comfortable in the Garden, it became clear that they weren't meant for living fat and happy there. So they were kicked out to fend for themselves, grow, and possibly evolve or devolve as they saw fit.

Not everything matches up with this (the other odd punishments he dealt out), but it's an interpretation that always appealed to me.

[Jason California]

Just based on a reading of the text and my psychological background, I always saw the Adam and Eve story as less of a punishment and more of a test of these strange new creatures he had created.

From what I've heard, the Garden of Eden was basically a zoo. And in it, Adam and Eve essentially lived like kept animals. The tree of knowledge represented the desire and curiosity for something more, and when they chose to partake in it rather than being satisfied being fed and comfortable in the Garden, it became clear that they weren't meant for living fat and happy there. So they were kicked out to fend for themselves, grow, and possibly evolve or devolve as they saw fit.

Not everything matches up with this (the other odd punishments he dealt out), but it's an interpretation that always appealed to me.

This is kind of how I look at the whole scenario.

[Matt Jay]

Just based on a reading of the text and my psychological background, I always saw the Adam and Eve story as less of a punishment and more of a test of these strange new creatures he had created.

From what I've heard, the Garden of Eden was basically a zoo. And in it, Adam and Eve essentially lived like kept animals. The tree of knowledge represented the desire and curiosity for something more, and when they chose to partake in it rather than being satisfied being fed and comfortable in the Garden, it became clear that they weren't meant for living fat and happy there. So they were kicked out to fend for themselves, grow, and possibly evolve or devolve as they saw fit.

Not everything matches up with this (the other odd punishments he dealt out), but it's an interpretation that always appealed to me.

This interpretation jives with my interpretation in which Satan is the good guy that wants people to be free, whereas God is a selfish fascist demanding tribute and loyalty under the threat of neverending punishment.

[Hate_Prime]

Just based on a reading of the text and my psychological background, I always saw the Adam and Eve story as less of a punishment and more of a test of these strange new creatures he had created.

From what I've heard, the Garden of Eden was basically a zoo. And in it, Adam and Eve essentially lived like kept animals. The tree of knowledge represented the desire and curiosity for something more, and when they chose to partake in it rather than being satisfied being fed and comfortable in the Garden, it became clear that they weren't meant for living fat and happy there. So they were kicked out to fend for themselves, grow, and possibly evolve or devolve as they saw fit.

Not everything matches up with this (the other odd punishments he dealt out), but it's an interpretation that always appealed to me.

Those creatures should not be strange to God. Not only were they made in his image, God is supposed to know everything. No experiments necessary.