NBA 2011-2012: Where Games Actually Will Happen.

**dantheman** · 03-10-2012, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by chazbot

Knicks are 2-6 since Melo came back? Crazy.

Knicks Opponents with Lin pre-Melo:
New Jersey, Utah, Washington, Los Angeles,
Minnesota, Toronto, Sacramento, New Orleans,
Dallas

Knicks Opponents with Lin with Melo:
New Jersey, Atlanta, Miami, Cleveland,
Boston, Dallas, San Antonio, Milkwaukee

The slate is just much tougher.

Also, I think Melo simply isn't that good. Because he is a small forward who won an NCAA title & was #3 pick in the same draft as Lebron, people tend to overrate him. Melo is a volume scorer that doesn't play good defense. Everybody loves to talk about how many "ways" that he can score, but Lebron shoots a better percentage them him at almost every spot on the floor.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&year_id=2012
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&year_id=2012

**dantheman** · 03-10-2012, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by chazbot

Lakers also barely beat a Wolves team without Love. Think they'll benefit from the trade deadline passing.

Minnesota has gotten much better. Nikola Pekovic & Love are really good, they are among the best frontcourt combo in the league. Also, Derrick Williams has improved a ton in the last month or so. Pekovic was 8-14 for 25 points with 13 rebounds while Williams was 9-19 with 22 points with 10 rebounds. If anyone can get that kind of performance from their frontcourt, they will challenge the Lakers, because Kobe is the only above average backcourt or wing player on their roster so they need Bynum & Gasol to dominate their frontcourt matchups to win consistently.

**dougmac** · 03-10-2012, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by dantheman

Minnesota has gotten much better. Nikola Pekovic & Love are really good, they are among the best frontcourt combo in the league. Also, Derrick Williams has improved a ton in the last month or so. Pekovic was 8-14 for 25 points with 13 rebounds while Williams was 9-19 with 22 points with 10 rebounds. If anyone can get that kind of performance from their frontcourt, they will challenge the Lakers, because Kobe is the only above average backcourt or wing player on their roster so they need Bynum & Gasol to dominate their frontcourt matchups to win consistently.

Rookie of the year question: Irving or Rubio?
The way Rubio has improved that team is crazy.

**chazbot** · 03-10-2012, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by dougmac

Rookie of the year question: Irving or Rubio?
The way Rubio has improved that team is crazy.

Rubio is great, but Irving is pretty dominant. He's got mostly the same Cavs roster, and they'll probably end up with 7-10 more wins than last year despite the truncated season.

**dougmac** · 03-10-2012, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by chazbot

Rubio is great, but Irving is pretty dominant. He's got mostly the same Cavs roster, and they'll probably end up with 7-10 more wins than last year despite the truncated season.

I think Irving is a better player, but Rubio does more for his team if that makes sense.

**dantheman** · 03-10-2012, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by dougmac

Rookie of the year question: Irving or Rubio?
The way Rubio has improved that team is crazy.

Rubio is a special player but some of the improvement credit has to go to Rick Adelman and the other players on his team. Pekovic playing over Darko is a big deal by itself.

Additonally, Rubio's shooting is beginning to be a big problem. He is shooting 21% from floor since the all star break. His overall shooting percentage is 35.7% from the floor. Rondo's critics complain that he can't shoot but he shot 50.5%, 50.8%, 47.5% from the floor the last three seasons while shooting 46.0% from the floor this year. In some ways, Rubio is a version of Rondo that actually can't shoot.

Kyrie Irving, by contrast is not the defensive player that Rubio is. Rubio is a better passer and a slightly better rebounder that Irving. But Kyrie can shoot very well, 48.3% overall, 41.2% from three, and 85.9% from the line. So, it is question of what you value more. I favor Irving but Rubio is not that far off because he brings so much extra to the table.

There is no chance that anyone other than Irving wins ROY. The general scoring bias is too big for him to not win it.

**chazbot** · 03-10-2012, 07:56 AM

One thing I read, for the faults people are finding in Rubio's shooting, Kidd's shooting was just as poor in his first three seasons.

Rubio will get the shooting together. But it is rather impressive, with some of those shooters on his team, that he's fifth in assists per game his first season.

**JJ Fresh** · 03-10-2012, 08:15 AM

Bias aside I think it's Irving's award to lose due to the scoring prowess, fourth quarter domination (not a huge influence, but something that would stick in a voter's mind), and lack of talent he's working with (Love is an all-star, the Cavs have Antawn Jamison). Rubio may be a better defensive player, but in an offense driven league I don't see that being a factor in the voting. I will admit that Rubio has more razzle dazzle plays over Kyrie's style of play, so that'll net him some votes in his favor. I could see the voters going back and forth between the two, but once again I think they'll award it to Irving.

Any word on Rubio on his injury? Saw he went down in the last minute or so.

**dougmac** · 03-10-2012, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by JJ Fresh

Bias aside I think it's Irving's award to lose due to the scoring prowess, fourth quarter domination (not a huge influence, but something that would stick in a voter's mind), and lack of talent he's working with (Love is an all-star, the Cavs have Antawn Jamison). Rubio may be a better defensive player, but in an offense driven league I don't see that being a factor in the voting. I will admit that Rubio has more razzle dazzle plays over Kyrie's style of play, so that'll net him some votes in his favor. I could see the voters going back and forth between the two, but once again I think they'll award it to Irving.

Any word on Rubio on his injury? Saw he went down in the last minute or so.

I just saw he's getting an MRI today. They are fearing a torn ACL

**web_head02** · 03-10-2012, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by dantheman

The slate is just much tougher.

Also, I think Melo simply isn't that good. Because he is a small forward who won an NCAA title & was #3 pick in the same draft as Lebron, people tend to overrate him. Melo is a volume scorer that doesn't play good defense. Everybody loves to talk about how many "ways" that he can score, but Lebron shoots a better percentage them him at almost every spot on the floor.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&year_id=2012
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&year_id=2012

They have had tougher opponents since Melo has been back, but I totally disagree with you saying he's not that good. He's one of the purest scorers in the league. You're using numbers from a year he's be riddled with injuries. There's no denying he's having a tough season with the injuries and team chemistry but he's not to blame for all of that. And yes he doesn't play good defense but neither does most of the Knicks and D'Antoni has never been a defensive minded coach. There are more problem on that team than Carmelo's play.