the matt fraction cavalcade of whimsy

[AndrewG]

Is that what you do when you were breaking in Matt? Reading scripts, studying comics, and reassembling them? I gotta be honest, while I have apparently done good enough to be published. I'm not at a point where I'm writing everyday like you did. While I do have time between work, the paper, and various other stuff I'm not sure what to focus on to improve my craft.

For my writing in the GATHERING we have a word and panel count limit, so that people don't just start busting out Oeming or Moore style 9 panel grids with wordy scripts and the like. I mostly write my scripts with the intent of letting the artist do the heavy lifting as he sees fit, so I try not to inundate the script with captions or dialogue. Even with that in mind, I imagine there's more I need to learn obviously. I was wondering where I should start? I mean I read Jason Aaron's CBR column, and Ron Marz's but I gotta figure out more ways to improve if I wanna be serious.

Matt, Kelly, sorry to interrupt but I just wanted to clarify the word/panel count situation.

For a couple of the books we'll be putting out next year specifically geared toward young readers (like 5-8 years old) I've tried to keep word count per page down as to hold the kids' attention. We have a lot of newer writers (and artists) working with us on and off and one of the mistakes I saw often was creators trying to cram 22 pages of writing into 2-4 story pages. It progressively got better but we're all reluctant to give up the words early on. In terms of panels, using 9-12 panel grids was also a trick used by writers to get more into a page though many of the artists would balk at that and suggest different types of layouts. It's a collaborative effort. Except for the times I put my dictator hat on.

I just didn't want any incorrect info getting out since we've been fortunate to have dozens of writers and artists from the Benbo contribute to our comics and I don't want to scare them off.

Sorry again for the mini derail

[Howlett]

Matt, Kelly, sorry to interrupt but I just wanted to clarify the word/panel count situation.

For a couple of the books we'll be putting out next year specifically geared toward young readers (like 5-8 years old) I've tried to keep word count per page down as to hold the kids' attention. We have a lot of newer writers (and artists) working with us on and off and one of the mistakes I saw often was creators trying to cram 22 pages of writing into 2-4 story pages. It progressively got better but we're all reluctant to give up the words early on. In terms of panels, using 9-12 panel grids was also a trick used by writers to get more into a page though many of the artists would balk at that and suggest different types of layouts. It's a collaborative effort. Except for the times I put my dictator hat on.

I just didn't want any incorrect info getting out since we've been fortunate to have dozens of writers and artists from the Benbo contribute to our comics and I don't want to scare them off.

Sorry again for the mini derail

I can speak to this. I'm editing two upcoming issues and I have one creative team with an 11 panel page and another with 10 panels per page on a two page story. The writers and artists on both work together often, so they know what they're capable of, so there's no problem as far as I'm concerned (unless they themselves discover one). We're all about the writers and artists trusting each other and making things work.

[mattfraction]

Thanks for the reply Matt.

I gotta say as open as you are about how you got to this point, it's still hard for me to grasp that guys like you and Bendis ever felt insecure given how tight you guys are in comics.

Constantly. Constantly constantly constantly constantly constantly constantly constantly constantly constantly constantly.

[mattfraction]

Yes, Alan Moore's scripts are remarkable detailed leaving very little wiggle room for the artist, even thought he exclaims that the artist are free to experiment. That, however, for someone that goes to school full time, works full time and has very little free time, if I am to complete a story I cannot write an Alan Moore script when I know, for a fact, that my design is not what a trained artist could do.

well, at the same time, though... it's more about atmospherics, with moore. Yes, there is an oppressive amount of detail but I suspect it's not there in the expectation that it will all be recreated on the page but, rather, to try the best that his snake-worshiping crazy brain can, to submerge, or at least to invite, his collaborators into the thing as he sees it and then to free them to add, remove, improvise the best they can. For all the stories about his scripts, I've never heard stories about him getting collaborators fired because they omitted or changed details. Hell, look at what Campbell and Gibbons both did-- read it once, scratched out everything but the most essential, and figured it out.

I would be interested to compare MANTOOTH to CASANOVA, script to issue, to see the difference between the spirited amateur to seasoned pro. The same goes for FEAR ITSELF or THOR, but I know there are copious legal issues that may stream from that.

there's a casanova script out there but casanova is a bad example. it's a constant attempt to strip away everything and remain a spirted amateur. it's always the longest manuscript i make, no matter what. it's a goddamn mess.

i guess the winds have changed at marvel and they're not into those things getting posted now. we got the OK to post UNCANNY 500 from them; someone somewhere changed their minds for some reason. I dunno.

[mattfraction]

Matt, Kelly, sorry to interrupt but I just wanted to clarify the word/panel count situation.

For a couple of the books we'll be putting out next year specifically geared toward young readers (like 5-8 years old) I've tried to keep word count per page down as to hold the kids' attention. We have a lot of newer writers (and artists) working with us on and off and one of the mistakes I saw often was creators trying to cram 22 pages of writing into 2-4 story pages. It progressively got better but we're all reluctant to give up the words early on. In terms of panels, using 9-12 panel grids was also a trick used by writers to get more into a page though many of the artists would balk at that and suggest different types of layouts. It's a collaborative effort. Except for the times I put my dictator hat on.

I just didn't want any incorrect info getting out since we've been fortunate to have dozens of writers and artists from the Benbo contribute to our comics and I don't want to scare them off.

Sorry again for the mini derail

no worries. i don't envy you your job. you said it all though. be furious and brutal. no writer ever got better because they were treated to meaningless handjobs and platitudes.

[mattfraction]

I can speak to this. I'm editing two upcoming issues and I have one creative team with an 11 panel page and another with 10 panels per page on a two page story. The writers and artists on both work together often, so they know what they're capable of, so there's no problem as far as I'm concerned (unless they themselves discover one). We're all about the writers and artists trusting each other and making things work.

guys, you're the editors. don't apologize, don't explain.

[mattfraction]

to clarify that a bit? you guys are the editors. you don't have to justify your editorial decisions just like those working for you, unless they're contracted to deliver otherwise, can choose to walk away. editors edit. that's your job. and a good editor makes everyone look better.

[Howlett]

guys, you're the editors. don't apologize, don't explain.

Oh, it's not an apology ('cept maybe from Andrew, 'cause he's a wuss ). But there's no harm in clarifying something when someone hands out the wrong info. I mean, if you wanted to do something with us but thought you couldn't use ten panels, you'd go somewhere else now where you thought you could, and we'd lose out on talent.

So clarification is always a good idea

Spoiler:

Howlett Inc would like to state that we do not believe that Andrew is actually a wuss. That's just what he gets for calling me old!

[Karen Mahoney]

I became a writer the day I started writing every day. Because that's what writers do. Right? Write.

Right. It took me a long time realise this myself, but the moment I did - the VERY MOMENT I figured out the 'writers write' thing - that's when my craft kicked up a level or two, which led to (eventually) getting published.

I mean, I'm talking about novels here rather than comics... but I think it's basically the same thing. (Also, sorry to jump in on Matt's thread!)

[beamish]

I have a few questions about the religion in Thor and would rather ask them off the boards if that is possible.