THE AVENGERS: In Theatres May 4, 2012

[dougmac]

You can't really say that when The Dark Knight was a billion dollar movie and none of the Marvel Studios films have even come close.

Not to mention, the Marvel Studios films that grossed the most, both over $600 million? Iron Man and Iron Man 2, which are definitely the most "realistic" and grounded comic book movies we've had aside from Nolan's Batman films in the last several years.

Right, but they didn't make Tony into someone else or make him wear War Machine armor, they let him be playful and colorful even if it was heightened reality.

[A.Huerta]

You could have used, say, J. Scott Campbell or Ed McGuinness to make what is ostensibly your point in a more even-handed manner, but you just had to load it up more by using Liefeld. It's amusing to me how you've gone from "the director made a tonal choice that I don't agree with" to "the director was incompetent!".

Yes, if somebody were to commission a comic about Cap's days in WWII, they'd probably go for an artist like Murphy or Michael Lark over Campbell or McGuinness - but they could also go with Darwyn Cooke or Tim Sale and it'd be wildly different tonally, but still be excellent.

For the record, though, I'd say the comics equivallent to Johnson's tone on cap would be Jim Lee on Uncanny X-Men #268 - and that's a completely valid take on WWII era Captain America.

I never called Johnston incompetent. I just don't agree with his direction.

[Andrew]

Right, but they didn't make Tony into someone else or make him wear War Machine armor, they let him be playful and colorful even if it was heightened reality.

There is something to be said about the Iron Man suit looking really good in live-action as opposed to other superhero costumes that would not. Wolverine running around in yellow spandex (as they joked about in the first X-Men movie) would've looked silly.

And as for what Marvel Studios is doing, let's remember that they've changed Hawkeye's costume for the movies. He isn't running around in purple spandex, and Thor isn't wearing his helmet at all in The Avengers (and only briefly did in the Thor movie). Why? Because it doesn't look good, and Hawkeye in purple would look ridiculous.

There will be some discretion from character to character. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

[Dr. Chaos]

I do like Hawkeye's outfit in the comic books.

Never understood why everybody was trying to get him out of that costume and get rid of the mask.

I understand why they changed it for the Ultimate Universe and the films but I still think everything else he's worn has been pretty dull in comparison.

[dougmac]

There is something to be said about the Iron Man suit looking really good in live-action as opposed to other superhero costumes that would not. Wolverine running around in yellow spandex (as they joked about in the first X-Men movie) would've looked silly.

And as for what Marvel Studios is doing, let's remember that they've changed Hawkeye's costume for the movies. He isn't running around in purple spandex, and Thor isn't wearing his helmet at all in The Avengers (and only briefly did in the Thor movie). Why? Because it doesn't look good, and Hawkeye in purple would look ridiculous.

There will be some discretion from character to character. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Movie Hawkeye looks like Ultimate Hawkeye though. I agree that they should use some discretion, but Brad's point that you can get away with a colorful Cap costume or Iron Man costume and a Green Hulk and you dont have make Spidey wear the black costume wasn't saying that bright is the only way to go, just that it isn't an inconceivable option.

[James Patrick]

I know there's a difference, but a big deal was made of Whedon being on set and doing massive rewrites and having an influence (maybe because they were nervous about Johnson even then) that if they were so unhappy with that Cap it seems like they are not being realistic with their expectations for Avengers Cap.

Well, the expectations are NOW coming from people who have already seen the movie and their reviews which say that Cap and every other character are pitch perfect. The reason everyone's saying Cap is awesome is for no other reason than people who saw the movie are saying that, well, Cap is awesome. Any expectations I have are from that, not from anything in Captain America itself. That's why I expect it to be better. Peopl eare unanimously saying it. (I like Cap a lot, btw. It only fails in its ambition or execution to go EITHER Private Ryan OR Rocketeer. But I dug it a lot)

[Andrew]

Movie Hawkeye looks like Ultimate Hawkeye though. I agree that they should use some discretion, but Brad's point that you can get away with a colorful Cap costume or Iron Man costume and a Green Hulk and you dont have make Spidey wear the black costume wasn't saying that bright is the only way to go, just that it isn't an inconceivable option.

To me the discretion is key and going forward we're bound to see Marvel Studios make more changes for the purpose of real world aesthetic versus comic book aesthetic. None of the characters that they've used yet have been particularly challenging in this regard. But again, a Hawkeye that isn't wearing his classic purple outfit and a Thor that shies away from wearing his helmet. Not to mention a Captain America that doesn't have wings attached to his head but rather has them painted on his helmet. Why isn't Brad complaining about that?

You have to wonder what Marvel Studios would do if they made their own X-Men or Wolverine film, for example. Somehow I doubt that a Marvel Studios Wolverine would be running around in yellow and blue. They would either tone it down to the brown and tan outfit or put him in his X-Force outfit, but I can't see any situation where his classic costume would be used in a live-action setting.

[KSChris]

There is something to be said about the Iron Man suit looking really good in live-action as opposed to other superhero costumes that would not. Wolverine running around in yellow spandex (as they joked about in the first X-Men movie) would've looked silly.

And as for what Marvel Studios is doing, let's remember that they've changed Hawkeye's costume for the movies. He isn't running around in purple spandex, and Thor isn't wearing his helmet at all in The Avengers (and only briefly did in the Thor movie). Why? Because it doesn't look good, and Hawkeye in purple would look ridiculous.

There will be some discretion from character to character. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

I don't know if I buy that those things would look silly. It's all about embracing it.

I'm sure 10 years ago, nobody would've thought we'd see an Avengers movie with a pretty true-to-comics looking Captain America suit because it would be too silly.

How you handle the source material, and the tone of the movies has a major effect on whether or not the costumes are embraced. And also, if the movies are good. That's actually the main issue.

[Mark Mavro (kryptic6)]

We'll see I guess, but Marvel made sure that everyone knew Whedon was all over the Cap script and on set. I think you guys blame Johnson too much.

Whedon was asked to do a dialogue polish and that's all. The movie was already written.

[dougmac]

Whedon was asked to do a dialogue polish and that's all. The movie was already written.

It was made to be more than that. It was a polish that supposedly turned into a bigger rewrite. It may have been exaggerated to appease rabbits, but that's what got put out there.
I liked Cap, I just found it odd that everyone who hated it thought he was going to be so much better in Avengers.