Batman #678 - WTF is this?

**Joe Kalicki** · 07-03-2008, 06:02 AM

I fail to see how anyone could read a confusing comic book and somehow get out of that that it's a negative comment on DC by a disgruntled employee.

Seriously, where does that come from?

**Doug** · 07-03-2008, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by Doug

My one question on this issue is mostly due to the art. Who is reading the Black Book at the beginning? Is it Tim or Jason?

So anyone going to help me?

**Joe Kalicki** · 07-03-2008, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by Doug

So anyone going to help me?

Has Jason even appeared in Morrison's Batman run?

I'd have to see the issue again, but it's probably Tim.

Or Damien.

Or Dick.

**bartleby** · 07-03-2008, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Joe Kalicki

I fail to see how anyone could read a confusing comic book and somehow get out of that that it's a negative comment on DC by a disgruntled employee.

Seriously, where does that come from?

It starts with rumors that the storyline originally was going to result in the death of Batman, but Warner Brothers intervening and telling DC that they can't kill Batman when they've got a big movie staring Batman coming out this summer. And Grant Morrison has a reputation with not being happy when corporate forces him to change things. So when that Batman story comes out with a whole bunch of WTF moments, I think people are just connecting the dots.

**Doug** · 07-03-2008, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by Joe Kalicki

Has Jason even appeared in Morrison's Batman run?

I'd have to see the issue again, but it's probably Tim.

Or Damien.

Or Dick.

The bike looked like Tim's, but the character looked older to me. That is why I thought it was Jason, since Dick was busy elsewhere in the issue.

I'm thinking it's Tim, based on the bike and his contacting of Dick later in the issue, but the art left me a little confused.

And yeah, Jason hasn't been in any of Morrison's issues, but Morrison has mentioned him in some panels he's done at conventions.

So yeah, my one issue with this issue is an art issue and not a story issue.

**Joe Kalicki** · 07-03-2008, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by bartleby

It starts with rumors that the storyline originally was going to result in the death of Batman, but Warner Brothers intervening and telling DC that they can't kill Batman when they've got a big movie staring Batman coming out this summer. And Grant Morrison has a reputation with not being happy when corporate forces him to change things. So when that Batman story comes out with a whole bunch of WTF moments, I think people are just connecting the dots.

But none of those "WTF" moments could possibly be connected to any statement against DC editorial, and they've all been foreshadowed in Morrison's run, including all the way back in his first issue.

Even with that "history," I don't see how a series of WTF moments = DC sucks.

**Adrian B AWESOME** · 07-03-2008, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by Joe Kalicki

But none of those "WTF" moments could possibly be connected to any statement against DC editorial, and they've all been foreshadowed in Morrison's run, including all the way back in his first issue.

It's hard to most to see a painting in the process of being created. In the meantime, to most, it looks random, like a bunch of dots and swipes. It isn't until the work is finished and they step back that they see the bigger picture.

To me, many comic fans don't seem to understand comics as a serial medium. They still want a beginning, middle, climax, and conclusion. They don't see that right now, they are in the middle of the story, and aren't going to get a feeling of AHHHH until an issue or 2 from now.

**Doug** · 07-03-2008, 06:20 AM

I still think

Spoiler:

is the Black Hand.

**Raphael J** · 07-03-2008, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Adrian B AWESOME

It's hard to most to see a painting in the process of being created. In the meantime, to most, it looks random, like a bunch of dots and swipes. It isn't until the work is finished and they step back that they see the bigger picture.

To me, many comic fans don't seem to understand comics as a serial medium. They still want a beginning, middle, climax, and conclusion. They don't see that right now, they are in the middle of the story, and aren't going to get a feeling of AHHHH until an issue or 2 from now.

I know I used to be very guilty of this when I first started reading comics. And, occasionally, I still get that way, but for the most part I'm a able to separate the stuff from the stuff. Another thing, and this applies to Final Crisis, that comic fans don't seem to understand is that you can't read every book the same way. Secret Invasion and Final Crisis are worlds apart and completely different stories. So, to read them the same way, at least in my mind, would do nothing but detract from the reader's enjoyment of the book, something some readers seem more than happy to do.

**HeroBoy** · 07-03-2008, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by YPJ

You should get Go Dog Go from the Library. Totally self contained, no continuity references, and it expects nothing from your imagination. Right up your alley, it sounds like.

Seriously?

Is this form of arguing allowed outside of the insult thread?

This isn't even creative or funny. Just because someone doesn't enjoy the same stories as you does NOT mean that they lack any form of imagination or creativity. This is just mean, cheap, and not very valid. If anything, immediately going for this form of argument would indicate *YOU* of having less of an imagination than others...

Seriously, people of equal talent and creative levels can still agree or disagree on stories. No need to insult.

Sorry if I'm misreading, but this just seems mean spirited.