Villains for Ms. Marvel

[Binaryan]

First off, let's hear it for the return of Doomsday Man (and the Destructor) in the pages of MS. MARVEL. Very well-done and effective re-introduction, Mr. Reed!

I also LOVE that Brian does his homework and uses obscure Marvel creations like the Targoth (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/targothf.htm) who are so out-of-the-blue that I didn't remember them at all! Kudos on the research!!!

So....that begs the question of Ms. Marvel fans: What other little-known villains/characters would you like to see Brian salvage from Marvel Limbo and use in MS. MARVEL?


My suggestions for some new villains:

- Una-Rogg from PAD's CAPTAIN MARVEL
- Iron Maiden... an old Black Widow villain
- Crimson Cowl (Justine Hammer) from THUNDERBOLTS
- Alkhema
- Dr. Minerva (who sports her original costume)
- The Exemplars... notably Tempest who is empowered by Watoomb and Inferno, a disgruntled former USAF pilot.... hmmmm :)

Basically, I want to see some strong female foes for Carol... and I challenge Brian to create a villainess who could rank beside Doom, Magneto, Ultron, Zemo, etc.

Ryan-

[tymothil]

Shuma-Gorath!

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

I want an updating fo Grotesk. 'Course, just as cool would Grotesk being stuck with his old schtick and getting run down by a bus on his way to attack MsM...

[intercept789]

***snip***
So....that begs the question of Ms. Marvel fans: What other little-known villains/characters would you like to see Brian salvage from Marvel Limbo and use in MS. MARVEL?

Basically, I want to see some strong female foes for Carol... and I challenge Brian to create a villainess who could rank beside Doom, Magneto, Ultron, Zemo, etc.**
***end snip***

Why does it need to be a female or obscure? I think maybe somewhere down the line it would be cool to see her go up, and get over her head, against say Dr. Doom.

[GelfXIII]

So....that begs the question of Ms. Marvel fans: What other little-known villains/characters would you like to see Brian salvage from Marvel Limbo and use in MS. MARVEL?

I'd like it better if he makes up new ones. Continuity sucks.

[Mitchel]

I'd like to see Lotus from the Wonder Man old series. She was a Wonder Man villain but has potential as a Ms. Marvel villain too. She was a kind of female kingpin of organized crime plus she was shown as having ties to Mephisto.


http://www.fortunecity.com/athena/power/955/Lotus.htm

[Taxman]

How many times have we seen Carol settle up with Rogue? Anyone want to see her settle up with Mystique?

[Brian Reed]

How many times have we seen Carol settle up with Rogue? Anyone want to see her settle up with Mystique?

If I were a betting man...

[Dermie]

Why does it need to be a female or obscure? I think maybe somewhere down the line it would be cool to see her go up, and get over her head, against say Dr. Doom.

The villains don't *all* need to be female or obscure (in fact, aside from the alternate Warbird all the villains in the series so far have been male), but its always nice to see some of the forgotten, under-used villains get dusted off and brought back, and to see some powerful new female villains introduced, given that most of the 'main' villains in the MU are male.

I'd like to see Lotus from the Wonder Man old series. She was a Wonder Man villain but has potential as a Ms. Marvel villain too.

Yeah, there is no reason Lotus can't be a Carol villain as well--before she appeared in the Wondy book she was actually a Hawkeye enemy in Avengers Spotlight. I think it would be cool for Lotus to show up--and given that Wondy is a supporting player in this book, it even provides a convenient connection.

She was a kind of female kingpin of organized crime plus she was shown as having ties to Mephisto.

Well, her ties to Mephisto turned out to be false--it was an illusion created by Mephisto to manipulate Wonder Man. Of course, it is still unknown *why* Mephisto exposed Lotus' activities to Wondy...

How many times have we seen Carol settle up with Rogue? Anyone want to see her settle up with Mystique?

I have been asking for ages to see a Carol/Mystique confrontation. There is a lot of unfinished business between them--including the murder of Carol's ex-boyfriend, Mike Barnett.

I wouldn't mind seeing Brian bring back SUPERIA, from Mark Gruenwald's Captain America run. I thought Superia had a lot of potential, if they would tone down a bit of her female-superiority ranting.

[bennymatthewtaylor]

I want to see her fight an Alcoholic. A highfunctioning drunk thriving on the booze who hands Carol her ass despite being horribly sauced... First though out of the gate... "Batroc the Leaper" with a utility-flask laiden down Jack Daniels jello Shots... There has to be a metaphysical avatar enlivening the Drunken aspect of humanity(the Dr Strange Villain we have never heard of) and he's supercharging Batroc to destroy all teetotalers.

[Mitchel]

As far as male villains, I wouldn't mind her to tackle some of the brute heavyweights from Thor & Hulk pantheon, after all she has Wondy by her side, they should be able to handle almost any of these guys by themselves:

Wrecking Crew
Cobra & Mr. Hide
Absorbing Man & Titania (Are they still married?)
Bi-beast
Rhino
Abomination
The Destroyer
Arkon & Thundra (They can be restored after the Marvel/DC Crossover)

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

I like the ignoring of Carol the booze hound. Like we need another hero with that problem? Anyway, I always thought of MsM as more of a problem drinker than an alcoholic anyways...

[Binaryan]

Hey...I just remembered another possibility: Rapture!

http://www.marveldatabase.com/Contingency

She was the villainess in the Cap/Wolverine Mini Series that co-starred Warbird a few years back. She led a team called the Contingency and could seek revenge on Carol for thwarting her plans earlier.

Ryan

[Haunt]

i nominate the new Ant-Man and Sharon Ventura for adversaries.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

I've nominated Ms Modok elsewhere (not MODAM. Her name should have been MODOLA: mental organism designed only for being laughed at) but there is a villain from the Seventies who I thought was a great concept and has made too few appearances: Nightshade! She was a Pym level genius who hid it behind a a baby doll sexuality. Think of it. Her morals and her use of her sexuality as a weapon would offend Ms M on two fronts at once!

[ramtower]

I don't know what happened to my brain, but I read a sentence in there as "Pym is a sexual genius."

I need my coffee.

[GelfXIII]

If I were a betting man...

See, you could sneak the inside info to me, I'd go to my bookie and get decent odds, see, and place the wager for both of us, see? Then we'd clean up, I tells ya! Clean up! yeah, yeah!

[Howlett]

See, you could sneak the inside info to me, I'd go to my bookie and get decent odds, see, and place the wager for both of us, see? Then we'd clean up, I tells ya! Clean up! yeah, yeah!

Can I have money too? :Please:

[beta-ray]

I like the ignoring of Carol the booze hound. Like we need another hero with that problem? Anyway, I always thought of MsM as more of a problem drinker than an alcoholic anyways...

Brian, write what you know. Have her addicted to video games. And forums.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

Brian, write what you know. Have her addicted to video games. And forums.

Her best Bendis Avengers appearance to date was the issue where the narration was her blog. That's a device I'd like to see used again.

[bennymatthewtaylor]

I think the one villain that needs to be brought back from Carol's past is J. Jonah Jameson.

[Brian Reed]

Her best Bendis Avengers appearance to date was the issue where the narration was her blog. That's a device I'd like to see used again.

I will admit right now that I spent the first 8 issues of this book trying to do just that. And you know what? It never works. Every single time, it falls apart under its own weight. It was a one use gag and Bendis used it.

[bennymatthewtaylor]

How many hits does her blog get per day?

Further consideration that her fanbase inside the fictional universe has something to cling to... And then they have a convention.

[Taxman]

How many hits does her blog get per day?

Further consideration that her fanbase inside the fictional universe has something to cling to... And then they have a convention.It is only today that I noticed that you guys in the Heinberg forum like a lot of spam. What up with that?

[bennymatthewtaylor]

My guess is that there's no one moderating that place because no one goes there because Heinberg doesn't write comics or visit his forum. He hasn't posted there since I began posting regularly about 4 months ago. i tired to keep it alive artificially but that forum is dead and should be removed from the Bendis Boards.

[Taxman]

My guess is that there's no one moderating that place because no one goes there because Heinberg doesn't write comics or visit his forum. He hasn't posted there since I began posting regularly about 4 months ago. i tired to keep it alive artificially but that forum is dead and should be removed from the Bendis Boards.No, no, you guys just like a lot of spam. :lol:

From what I understand, there is some sort of program that attaches itself to the forum for unknown reasons.

[bennymatthewtaylor]

We are a dead people from a demolished world. The Heinberg forum is no more.

Hmmm?

Atlantis needs to be dealt with. Carol vs. Namor?

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

That Atlantis Attacks moment from CW7 was definitely a boo yeah moment tho', wasn't it? Carol has a Tiger Shark history but there's a Sub-Mariner supporting cast member I'd rather see: Tamara Rand. She was a favorite back when.

[ramtower]

I liked the moment, but it passed so quickly -- everything got such a rush treatment that I felt like the battle existed only in Cliff Notes form.

[ramtower]

We are a dead people from a demolished world. The Heinberg forum is no more.

Hmmm?

Atlantis needs to be dealt with. Carol vs. Namor?

We welcome you with loaded arms.

[Taxman]

I liked the moment, but it passed so quickly -- everything got such a rush treatment that I felt like the battle existed only in Cliff Notes form.I find that is pretty common in comics now. A lot of writers like to devote most of the space to non-action sequences. Old school writers liked to try to advance the character during the action more than we seem to see today.

[ramtower]

It made me feel less like i was watching a single, large-scale fight unfold over time and more like i was looking at snapshots that didn't link together in any significant way. Spider-man here, punching someone, cut to Thor over there, punching someone else. It just felt piecemeal to me because of that. I much preferred the nonaction sequences.

[Taxman]

It made me feel less like i was watching a single, large-scale fight unfold over time and more like i was looking at snapshots that didn't link together in any significant way. Spider-man here, punching someone, cut to Thor over there, punching someone else. It just felt piecemeal to me because of that. I much preferred the nonaction sequences.Yeah, I thought that some of the old school writer's handled this sort of thing in a way I enjoyed much more as well.

[Taxman]

This seemingly alternate universe story about the future majorativly seemed to be an alternate universe story because Billy and Tommy were in it; well after Byrne had obliterated the boys out of existence. Is 616 back on track to become this previewed future? Whatelse has to be adjusted today to make PAD's book tomorrow like yesterday?

http://www.amazingcomics.it/lastavengersstory1web.jpg

The one really big thing is that Mockingbird would have to be resurrected. From what I can recall, there is nothing besides that save for a buch of minor tweaks and twists which wouldn't be a big deal.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

The one really big thing is that Mockingbird would have to be resurrected. From what I can recall, there is nothing besides that save for a buch of minor tweaks and twists which wouldn't be a big deal.

Is there a reason this has to be in continuity? I thought this type of story was fun as a possible future rather than the definite one. 'Sides, I didn't think this one was all that good...

[Taxman]

Is there a reason this has to be in continuity? I thought this type of story was fun as a possible future rather than the definite one. 'Sides, I didn't think this one was all that good...You're right. All we need concern ourselves with is resurrecting Jack Hart and Genis Mar-vell to restore the Busiek continuity.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

Genis only needs reassembly. Jack? Simple as well. Energy can neitehr be created nor destroyed. Get all his energy back together and you have Instant Jack!

[Dermie]

Genis only needs reassembly. Jack? Simple as well. Energy can neitehr be created nor destroyed. Get all his energy back together and you have Instant Jack!

Yep, Jack of Hearts has blown up at least once before and been restored, so his death isn't that hard to undo. Genis is slightly more complicated, but not impossible. The only concern in his case is that Marvel would likely see him as redundant now that Mar-Vell is back (not to mention that we've also got Phyla and Hulkling around) so they probably wouldn't see any point in bringing him back.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

Meh. Why do we need a point? I want a full family reunion is all. PAD made Genis one of my all-time favorite characters and I'd rather he be alive in comic book limbo than disassembled there.

[Dermie]

Meh. Why do we need a point? I want a full family reunion is all. PAD made Genis one of my all-time favorite characters and I'd rather he be alive in comic book limbo than disassembled there.

I agree completely--I just don't think Marvel will see it that way.

[Taxman]

Yep, Jack of Hearts has blown up at least once before and been restored, so his death isn't that hard to undo. Genis is slightly more complicated, but not impossible. The only concern in his case is that Marvel would likely see him as redundant now that Mar-Vell is back (not to mention that we've also got Phyla and Hulkling around) so they probably wouldn't see any point in bringing him back.The only point is to restore the Busiek-verse.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

There are worse reasons. Comics is a business and should be run that way for the most part but there should always be things that are done for nerdgasms. A meeting between Mar-Vell and all three of his kids would be one of those.

[Taxman]

There are worse reasons. Comics is a business and should be run that way for the most part but there should always be things that are done for nerdgasms. A meeting between Mar-Vell and all three of his kids would be one of those.I'd be interested to see when there is going to be some sort of meeting between Carol and Mar-vell. He goes back all the way to the origins of the character.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

A meeting between the two Marvels is long overdue. I never read the CM series that Carol was a supporting character in so the only meeting I've ever read between the two was that bad Infantio issue of the original series (I mean the issue was bad. I've come to appreciate Infantio as I get older). The two of them have been nothing to each other since Carol got her powers so if the meeting never happens it won't really matter, will it?

[bennymatthewtaylor]

I have some black and white reprints of mar-vels adventures from the 60s... Carol was a cross between the Dr Bellows from I dream of Jeanie, and frank burns from M*A*S*H* ...She could smell that Mar-Vel was a Pinko or a fink or something and an hook or by crook, she was going to out him.

Good stuff.

Was there ever any romantic tension?

[Dermie]

Was there ever any romantic tension?

Yes, Carol was a love interest for Mar-Vell in the early issues of his book. I don't think they ever became a true couple, but there was definately romantic tension between them, and they have shared at least one kiss.

The two of them have been nothing to each other since Carol got her powers

I wouldn't go that far. Carol still had strong feelings for him, and they remained friends. They weren't as much a part of each other's lives as they were before, but they still worked together on occassion, and there was still a bond between them.

I believe Bendis has said that he intends to have Carol and Mar-Vell reunite at some point this year in MIGHTY AVENGERS.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

The bond must have been only there for people who had read the first series. Outside of that issue Infantio drew, the most I can recall since her first series debuted that these two have appeared together is crowd scenes in the Avengers.

[Dermie]

The bond must have been only there for people who had read the first series. Outside of that issue Infantio drew, the most I can recall since her first series debuted that these two have appeared together is crowd scenes in the Avengers.

Yeah, we definately saw far less of them together after Carol got her powers. But when they were together and did interact, there was almost always some acknowledgement of the bond between them. Learning about Mar-Vell's death, and being unable to grieve for him due to what Rogue had done to her, was the final push that made Carol decide to leave Earth with the Starjammers after becoming Binary.

The Carol/Mar-Vell relationship rarely got explored once she became Ms Marvel (presumably because they wanted her to stand on her own as a character rather than be his female counterpart), but the history between them never went away. Even years after Mar-Vell's death it gets brought up now and then--when Carol was a supporting character in THUNDERBOLTS it came up a few times since Mar-Vell's son Genis was one of the T-Bolts.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

One thing that's bothered me lately: Why was Carol Danvers chosen to become Ms Marvel? has Gerry Conway or any of the then editorial staff commented on that anywhere? Here she was a minor supporting character in a D list book and hadn't even appeared there for years. Someone woke up one day and decided she and the Cat were going to be Marvel's spearhead into women's lib comics? I'm glad they did 'cause who knows if the path the character has followed would still have led to this wonderful current series if she had been a new character or Pepper Potts. Just wondering is all...

[Tom Burgos]

Five pages and nobody has mentioned Deathbird?

That woman HAS GOT TO come back to plague Carol...she was blood-thirsty, ferocious, merciless and absolutely kickass, and she used to have a major mad-on for Carol.

Come on, brian R, you know you want to use her...

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

Love the pic but with Carol back in the Avengers Universe rather than the X-Verse Deathbird isn't really an option. 'Sides, who knows what shape Brubaker's gonna leave her in when he gets done with her!