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Bill!
12-09-2006, 11:25 PM
Has Harry stayed dead since DeMatteis killed him? What about Norman Sr? Did he manage to come back to life somehow? How about little Norman, Harry's son, anything ever happen with him?

Jerome Gibbons
12-09-2006, 11:31 PM
Has Harry stayed dead since DeMatteis killed him? What about Norman Sr? Did he manage to come back to life somehow? How about little Norman, Harry's son, anything ever happen with him?

Harry's dead. Norman came back at the end of the Clone Saga (about ten years ago). Normie's still around.

Bill!
12-09-2006, 11:33 PM
How did they manage to bring Norman back?

Vonn Hennigar
12-09-2006, 11:35 PM
He never actually died.

He uh has a healing factor and slipped out of the morgue way back when and went to Europe and didn't do much.

Jerome Gibbons
12-09-2006, 11:35 PM
How did they manage to bring Norman back?

He never really died. Apparently, the Goblin formula that gave him his strength also gave him a healing factor of some sort. After he got stabbed in the chest (or nuts, depending on your continuity) he revived in the morgue and fled to Europe. Then he came back.

Bill!
12-09-2006, 11:39 PM
He never really died. Apparently, the Goblin formula that gave him his strength also gave him a healing factor of some sort. After he got stabbed in the chest (or nuts, depending on your continuity) he revived in the morgue and fled to Europe. Then he came back.

That's... awesome?

Huh. Not so crazy about that.

How about any other big Spiderman villain deaths? They didn't manage to figure out a way Kraven didn't blow his brains out did they?

Vonn Hennigar
12-09-2006, 11:41 PM
That's... awesome?

Huh. Not so crazy about that.

How about any other big Spiderman villain deaths? They didn't manage to figure out a way Kraven didn't blow his brains out did they?

No, but he had a son who took up the mantle.

Jerome Gibbons
12-09-2006, 11:44 PM
That's... awesome?

Huh. Not so crazy about that.

How about any other big Spiderman villain deaths? They didn't manage to figure out a way Kraven didn't blow his brains out did they?

Kraven's still dead, thankfully. So is Mysterio (uh...kinda). The Chameleon is crazy or something, I think. Doc Ock is his usual self. Scorpion is Venom now. Carnage is dead too, apparently. Electro is hanging around. I think the Lizard is in prison.

Vonn Hennigar
12-09-2006, 11:45 PM
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/Vonn_Hennigar/ohnormy6xt.jpg

Lemonade Lady
12-10-2006, 03:11 AM
He never really died. Apparently, the Goblin formula that gave him his strength also gave him a healing factor of some sort. After he got stabbed in the chest (or nuts, depending on your continuity) he revived in the morgue and fled to Europe. Then he came back.

Probably one of the worst things in Marvel history. Who thought it would be a good idea to piss on one of the most powerful and memorable Spider-Man stories ever told?

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 03:59 AM
Probably one of the worst things in Marvel history. Who thought it would be a good idea to piss on one of the most powerful and memorable Spider-Man stories ever told?

They didn't piss on it. The main point of the story was that Gwen died, Gwen hasn't come back.

Current villian status

Osborn: Thought dead, came back made Peter's life miserable, got outed went to jaul and is now working for the Goverment.

Harry: Dead.

Hobgoblin: Retired

Kraven: Still dead but his son is now taken up the mantle and depending on what you read is a movie star.

Ock: Was dead but that's pretty much been ignored since he was brought back by ninja's

Lizard: Is out of jail (Feral latest appearance?) I think but wife is dead of cancer.

Venom: Is now Mac Gargan, Eddie Brock is lying in a hospital slowly dieing.

Carnage: Got ripped in half by the Sentry.

Mysterio: Beck is dead (or is he?) and now got 2 new one's. Daniel Berkhart is in prison as of F/N 13 and Francis Klum is recovering from injury's suffered in the same issue.

Everyone else is pretty much the same I think.

Amos Moses
12-10-2006, 04:14 AM
I thought Eddie Brock slit his wrists in MK Spider-Man?

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 04:20 AM
I thought Eddie Brock slit his wrists in MK Spider-Man?

He did he was seen in the hospital looking half dead in a recent issue of Amazing (the one after civil war 2 I forget the number)

who cares?
12-10-2006, 05:34 AM
http://www.glitzblog.com/images/ozzy%20osborne.jpg

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 05:38 AM
Probably one of the worst things in Marvel history. Who thought it would be a good idea to piss on one of the most powerful and memorable Spider-Man stories ever told?

I'm just glad the damn Clone Saga is over and Ben Reilly is dead.

Bill!
12-10-2006, 08:13 AM
Why does Kraven's son (who knew he had one) need to take up the mantle? What mantle is there to take up?

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 08:24 AM
Why does Kraven's son (who knew he had one) need to take up the mantle? What mantle is there to take up?

It depends what you want to ignore but....

The basic story is his son Alysha was raised in the jungle with only small visits from his dad. He came to New York to get to know his father from the man who his father obsessed over Spider-man...

In his first appearences he was an animalistic man who seemed to just want to prove himself to his dad.

In the reboot he was basically a carbon copy of his dad and really screwed up trying to catch Venom.

We won't discuss 'Get Kraven'

Masculine Todd
12-10-2006, 08:34 AM
What mantle is there to take up?

http://rfleming.rmplc.co.uk/diarypics/Crikeysteve.jpg

TheKraken
12-10-2006, 11:04 AM
It depends what you want to ignore but....

The basic story is his son Alysha was raised in the jungle with only small visits from his dad. He came to New York to get to know his father from the man who his father obsessed over Spider-man...

In his first appearences he was an animalistic man who seemed to just want to prove himself to his dad.

In the reboot he was basically a carbon copy of his dad and really screwed up trying to catch Venom.

We won't discuss 'Get Kraven'

Don't forget Kraven's other son who showed up calling himself "The Grim Hunter" first. I actually liked him better, stupid name aside. He was psychotically obsessed with proving he could be the man his father was, even tho' he was clearly a poor fighter and hunter. He was flawed in an interesting way. Then they sacrificed him to proving how "bad ass" Kaine was and killed him. Then the son who looks & dresses exactly like his dad was introduced...

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 11:13 AM
Don't forget Kraven's other son who showed up calling himself "The Grim Hunter" first. I actually liked him better, stupid name aside. He was psychotically obsessed with proving he could be the man his father was, even tho' he was clearly a poor fighter and hunter. He was flawed in an interesting way. Then they sacrificed him to proving how "bad ass" Kaine was and killed him. Then the son who looks & dresses exactly like his dad was introduced...

He was cool.

Nick MB
12-10-2006, 12:51 PM
Sadly, there are only so many stories you can do with Krappy Kraven, and they realised this, so sacrificed him to the larger story. In much the same way that Harry never really came off as a particularly efficient villain compared to his dad, but had the angle of being Pete's best friend. But in both their cases, it ran its' course. So down they went.

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 12:54 PM
He did he was seen in the hospital looking half dead in a recent issue of Amazing (the one after civil war 2 I forget the number)

Yeah, Brock went into a coma after slitting his writsts and just very recently woke up. He still has cancer though, so what happens next remains to be seen.....

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 01:00 PM
Yeah, Brock went into a coma after slitting his writsts and just very recently woke up. He still has cancer though, so what happens next remains to be seen.....

God, I really hope they finally kill him off for good. No other character has been driven to the ground as much as Eddie Brock.

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 01:01 PM
God, I really hope they finally kill him off for good. No other character has been driven to the ground as much as Eddie Brock.

Yeah, I think his window has truly passed.

Of course, I hope he gets a fitting final story. I mean, he did BRING IT in his early appearances.

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 01:03 PM
Yeah, I think his window has truly passed.

Of course, I hope he gets a fitting final story. I mean, he did BRING IT in his early appearances.

That he did.

Personally, I really liked the story Jenkins wrote in Spectacular Spider-Man. Thought that could have been a real good send off for Eddie. It would have been cool if he'd died at the end of it.

Sigh...I miss Jenkins Spider-Man.

kylethoreau
12-10-2006, 01:06 PM
I doubt Brock is gone for good...hell Carnage both had cancer and his symbiote eaten by Venom.....didn't stop him

the only thing that stopped him was....well Bendis.




dammit

Vonn Hennigar
12-10-2006, 01:06 PM
Yeah, I think his window has truly passed.

Of course, I hope he gets a fitting final story. I mean, he did BRING IT in his early appearances.

I actually got into a fistfight with my best friend in Jr.High over this issue.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/Vonn_Hennigar/347.jpg

No seriously:Oops: No one calls Spider-Man a pussy around me:twisted:

Jordan K
12-10-2006, 01:14 PM
I think the Eddie Brock venom is due for a comeback anytime now, say by summer!

The Human Target
12-10-2006, 01:19 PM
I will say, I like Kraven's kid who's a celebrity.

Amedeo
12-10-2006, 02:19 PM
I think the Eddie Brock venom is due for a comeback anytime now, say by summer!

I can just see it now! Eddie Brock will reveal that it wasn't really him with cancer but his robotic clone brother who was sent here by Galactus' evil twin brother Sal who lives on Earth-12 and eats Celestials (but in reality doesn't eat Celestials and is being controlled by Dr. Doom! Who would've thunk it?) to spy on Kaine (who turns out to be Harry Osborn)!

TheKraken
12-10-2006, 02:27 PM
I can just see it now! Eddie Brock will reveal that it wasn't really him with cancer but his robotic clone brother who was sent here by Galactus' evil twin brother Sal who lives on Earth-12 and eats Celestials (but in reality doesn't eat Celestials and is being controlled by Dr. Doom! Who would've thunk it?) to spy on Kaine (who turns out to be Harry Osborn)!

If Bruce Banner's fatal illness can magically disappear, so can Brock's...

Amedeo
12-10-2006, 02:30 PM
I wonder if there's some online website catalogue of characters who have been brought back to life or magically restored.

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 02:32 PM
If Bruce Banner's fatal illness can magically disappear, so can Brock's...
And on the same note, since they never bothered to even name Peter's illness, I say it never happened!

I wonder if there's some online website catalogue of characters who have been brought back to life or magically restored.

Hmm.... let me check.

TheKraken
12-10-2006, 02:33 PM
And on the same note, since they never bothered to even name Peter's illness, I say it never happened!


He had McGuffinitiis...

Lemonade Lady
12-10-2006, 02:36 PM
They didn't piss on it. The main point of the story was that Gwen died, Gwen hasn't come back.

So you don't think that the Green Goblin's death was an important part of the story?

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 02:36 PM
And on the same note, since they never bothered to even name Peter's illness, I say it never happened!


Hmm.... let me check.

Peter's illness? You mean the one from The Other?


I haven't read The Other completely, but I've read elsewhere that he wasn't really sick at all. It was just his body trying to evolve and Peter's mind subconsciously halting the process. Once he was dead, there was nothing that could halt the process, so his body went ahead and changed with ease.

Amedeo
12-10-2006, 02:38 PM
Peter's illness? You mean the one from The Other?


I haven't read The Other, but I've read elsewhere that he wasn't really sick at all. It was just his body trying to evolve and Peter's mind subconsciously halting the process. Once he was dead, there was nothing that could halt the process, so his body went ahead and changed with ease.

He suffered from the illness known to many as "Poorly executed storyline syndrome."

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 02:39 PM
He had McGuffinitiis...
Ah yes, I believe Gambit still suffers from that....


Peter's illness? You mean the one from The Other?


I haven't read The Other, but I've read elsewhere that he wasn't really sick at all. It was just his body trying to evolve and Peter's mind subconsciously halting the process. Once he was dead, there was nothing that could halt the process, so his body went ahead and changed with ease.

Huh, haven't heard that theory yet.

The problem is he spent about two and a half issues going to every single genius in the Marvel U for medical opinions, and they all said whatever he had was fatal. I believe the word disease was brought up, but I'd have to reread to be sure.

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 02:42 PM
Ah yes, I believe Gambit still suffers from that....



Huh, haven't heard that theory yet.

The problem is he spent about two and a half issues going to every single genius in the Marvel U for medical opinions, and they all said whatever he had was fatal. I believe the word disease was brought up, but I'd have to reread to be sure.

Maybe the process of "evolving" also involved dying at some point, which is why it seemed like a fatal disease. When Morlun killed him, he just accelerated the process. I dunno. I'm just conjecturing here. Like I said, I haven't read every issue of The Other yet.

And I so wanted to see Peter plucking a bullet off the air...

Criden
12-10-2006, 02:55 PM
Alyosha Kravenoff, what a weird character. Get Kraven was awful, but I sorta like the idea of him, and I sorta like him in Beyond!

The Zevad
12-10-2006, 03:52 PM
Probably one of the worst things in Marvel history. Who thought it would be a good idea to piss on one of the most powerful and memorable Spider-Man stories ever told?


Bob Harras thought it would be good to make it Norman. It was supposed to be Harry who came back in Peter Parker: Spider-Man #75. Oyyyyy...

Natty P, Scientific Adventurer
12-10-2006, 04:07 PM
What's up with their hair?

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 04:25 PM
As for the mysterious illness it read to me like Cancer. It works I think rather well as if it's a pretty nasty one in can make your system go haywire.

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 04:27 PM
As for the mysterious illness it read to me like Cancer. It works I think rather well as if it's a pretty nasty one in can make your system go haywire.

I'll never get why they couldn't say. They can show Peter's eyeball getting TORN out, but can't say if it's the big C or not?

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 04:30 PM
I'll never get why they couldn't say. They can show Peter's eyeball getting TORN out, but can't say if it's the big C or not?

Spidey's unique blood could have made it a nightmare to tell.

That's what I took ti as and it works for me until they say different.

Sy-Klone
12-10-2006, 04:36 PM
I'm okay with Norman Osborn being back.

I mean, it's not what I would have necessarily wanted, but the Clone Saga really spiraled out of control, and the only way to wrap it up with any sense of finality (for me at least) would be to make it the work of a major mastermind. Doctor Octopus was dead then. (He got better. The Hand was involved.)

But now that Osborn's back, I say let him be back. Use him well.

I remember really digging Spider-Man during that post Clone Saga pre-Mackie/Byrne era. J.M. DeMatteis told some fun stories on Spectacular Spider-Man, and Norman Osborn was used really well in a Luthor-type capacity, trying to buy the Daily Bugle, etc.

Harry should stay dead, though.

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 04:36 PM
Spidey's unique blood could have made it a nightmare to tell.

That's what I took ti as and it works for me until they say different.

Peter does have a pretty messed up biology. I love that about him. Makes him unique.

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 04:38 PM
Peter does have a pretty messed up biology. I love that about him. Makes him unique.

Yes we know how a cold screws him up. God knows what something as horrible as cancer would do.

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 04:41 PM
Yes we know how a cold screws him up. God knows what something as horrible as cancer would do.

He has pretty weird DNA. I love it. I've always seen Peter as the perfect Super Soldier, Captain America be damned. That's why I loved...

...the reasoning behind the government doing what they did with Peter. If you can't have an army of Captain Americas, why not an army of Spider-Men? He's perfect for battle. The perfect human specimen.

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 04:44 PM
He has pretty weird DNA. I love it. I've always seen Peter as the perfect Super Soldier, Captain America be damned. That's why I loved...

...the reasoning behind the government doing what they did with Peter. If you can't have an army of Captain Americas, why not an army of Spider-Men? He's perfect for battle. The perfect human specimen.

Aye yeah I agree.

cmoney
12-10-2006, 04:54 PM
I guess I always assumed that Peter's "death" in "The Other" and subsequent "rebirth" took care of whatever disease he supposedly had.

Pat Shatner
12-10-2006, 04:54 PM
I'm okay with Norman Osborn being back.

I mean, it's not what I would have necessarily wanted, but the Clone Saga really spiraled out of control, and the only way to wrap it up with any sense of finality (for me at least) would be to make it the work of a major mastermind. Doctor Octopus was dead then. (He got better. The Hand was involved.)

But now that Osborn's back, I say let him be back. Use him well.

I remember really digging Spider-Man during that post Clone Saga pre-Mackie/Byrne era. J.M. DeMatteis told some fun stories on Spectacular Spider-Man, and Norman Osborn was used really well in a Luthor-type capacity, trying to buy the Daily Bugle, etc.

Harry should stay dead, though.
Couldn't have said it better myself, man.
I really loved what they did with Norman directly after the clone saga. I'd never had the experience of reading about Norman Osborn in anything outside of trades, back issues and flashbacks. That "Oh, shit!" moment in #75 when he tears his shirt off to reveal the gigantic scar from his glider is one of my favorite comic book moments.

There was a book that came out just before PPSM #75 that was called The Osborn Diaries and it detailed exactly how he'd survived his death and what the hell he'd been doing since. It dealt with the Scriers, the Jackal, Harry's death and the masterminding of the entire clone saga, all written by Norman Osborn on the night before Halloween. I loved that fucking book.

Of course then the bastard steps into PPSM 75 and ends up brutalizing and indirectly murdering Ben Reilly. And I cried.

By the way, that was 10 years ago this month. Crazy.

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 04:56 PM
I guess I always assumed that Peter's "death" in "The Other" and subsequent "rebirth" took care of whatever disease he supposedly had.

Oh it did. We were originally talking about how his "emotional pain" was allegedely healed as well, and kinda deviated.

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 04:57 PM
I guess I always assumed that Peter's "death" in "The Other" and subsequent "rebirth" took care of whatever disease he supposedly had.

Correct.

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 05:07 PM
So that means The Other's tagline had it wrong. It shouldn't be Evolve or Die, it should be Evolve AND Die.




Or rather, Die and Evolve.

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 05:09 PM
So that means The Other's tagline had it wrong. It shouldn't be Evolve or Die, it should be Evolve AND Die.




Or rather, Die and Evolve.

Or it could have been right considering if he had refused to evolve he would have stayed dead.

As shown in the what if issue.

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 05:09 PM
So that means The Other's tagline had it wrong. It shouldn't be Evolve or Die, it should be Evolve AND Die.




Or rather, Die and Evolve.

Or "Give Us Your Money So You Can Actually Pay For An Issue Where Spider-Man Uses His Spider-Sense To Gamble Because It Somehow Works That Way. And Art By Pat Lee!"

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 05:11 PM
Or "Give Us Your Money So You Can Actually Pay For An Issue Where Spider-Man Uses His Spider-Sense To Gamble Because It Somehow Works That Way. And Art By Pat Lee!"

That was his imagination:razz:

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 05:11 PM
Or it could have been right considering if he had refused to evolve he would have stayed dead.

As shown in the what if issue.

Didn't read that either. What happens? Peter actually stays dead? Does he not embrace the spider or whatever?

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 05:12 PM
That was his imagination:razz:

Oh, so the whole thing was a daydream? Aunt May and Mary Jane wearing the Iron Man armor and fighting Doombots was a daydream too?

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 05:12 PM
Or "Give Us Your Money So You Can Actually Pay For An Issue Where Spider-Man Uses His Spider-Sense To Gamble Because It Somehow Works That Way. And Art By Pat Lee!"

Damn, that Pat Lee art really wasn't very...uh...nice-looking.

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 05:13 PM
Damn, that Pat Lee art really wasn't very...uh...nice-looking.

I don't harsh on art much because I suck, BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT....

No. No it wasn't.

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 05:14 PM
Oh, so the whole thing was a daydream? Aunt May and Mary Jane wearing the Iron Man armor and fighting Doombots was a daydream too?

:frustrat:


That was...man, that was just WRONG.

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 05:14 PM
Oh, so the whole thing was a daydream? Aunt May and Mary Jane wearing the Iron Man armor and fighting Doombots was a daydream too?

No that one was real.

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 05:15 PM
:frustrat:


That was...man, that was just WRONG.


No that one was real.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/RaidenMGS4/Mahrvell/armorsuits.jpg

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 05:16 PM
I don't harsh on art much because I suck, BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT....

No. No it wasn't.

I also try to not crap on art, because hey, one man's treasure and all that, but man...that was just too much.

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 05:16 PM
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/RaidenMGS4/Mahrvell/armorsuits.jpg

Tsk.



We had it better with Aunt May as herald of Galactus.

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 05:19 PM
Speaking of the Other do you guys think...

It's Ms. Arrow?

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 05:23 PM
Speaking of the Other do you guys think...

It's Ms. Arrow?

That's SURE what David wants us to think, so I'm going with no.

I also don't think Ms. Arrow is Marrow either.

Jerome Gibbons
12-10-2006, 05:24 PM
Speaking of the Other do you guys think...

It's Ms. Arrow?

I was hoping it would turn out to be Marrow.

The Doctor
12-10-2006, 05:27 PM
That's SURE what David wants us to think, so I'm going with no.

I also don't think Ms. Arrow is Marrow either.


I was hoping it would turn out to be Marrow.

I've ehard the Marrow thing. Isn't she dead?

Who do you think it is Classy?

YouStayClassy
12-10-2006, 05:44 PM
I've ehard the Marrow thing. Isn't she dead?

Who do you think it is Classy?

Marrow's still alive, kicking it with the Morlocks.

As far who it is, I have no idea. Knowing the way David's been writing the book it's going to be Supergirl or something.... :lol:

The Doctor
12-11-2006, 07:30 AM
Marrow's still alive, kicking it with the Morlocks.

As far who it is, I have no idea. Knowing the way David's been writing the book it's going to be Supergirl or something.... :lol:

I'm enjoying F/N:)