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RobertTN
12-02-2006, 04:13 AM
Captain America 24: great story, great art, but 24 pages of ads and 22 pages of story. This is just awful. No more than 2 concurrent pages of story; ads everywhere. I wouldn't mind that many ads if they just ran the story first and placed the ads in the back. I think it is shitty treatment from Marvel to people that bother to buy the actual comics as they come out; to disrupt the story with that much ad placement. People that wait for the trade may wait longer but get no ads and a much better reading experience. Powers that be at Marvel, please fix this!!:-x

Shwicaz
12-02-2006, 04:15 AM
Captain America 24: great story, great art, but 24 pages of ads and 22 pages of story. This is just awful. No more than 2 concurrent pages of story; ads everywhere. I wouldn't mind that many ads if they just ran the story first and placed the ads in the back. I think it is shitty treatment from Marvel to people that bother to buy the actual comics as they come out; to disrupt the story with that much ad placement. People that wait for the trade may wait longer but get no ads and a much better reading experience. Powers that be at Marvel, please fix this!!:-x




From Joe's column at newsarama:


RQ: “Starman76” - Joe, building on the discussion regarding the number of ads in Marvel's comics, do the ads factor into comics' price points? In other words, issues with heavier ad counts around November and December bring in more revenue. Could the savings be passed onto the consumer? Thanks.

Joe Quesada: Great question, Starman. Let me be straight up with you, while it’s very evident that our ad count has gone up, it primarily happens in the months of November and December (that seems to be the trend), and should drop back down to shortly afterwards. Changing price points for two months just isn’t a practical solution for retailers or Marvel. However, what we do try to do is balance it out across the year and provide extra value on many books at no extra charge. For example.

We’ve published a number of no ad titles recently, Punisher Black and White, FF: The End Rough Cut, all the “Director’s Cuts”, “Must Haves” (or Must Haves style books), the Handbook A to Z and Marvel Spotlight to name a few.

We’ve also inserted bonus material into books at no extra charge like Franklin Richards stories, Masked Marvel, Four Horseman of the Apocalypse, X-Men Deadly Genesis back ups and the Guiding Light eight-page story.

We’ve also increased page counts without raising prices in a few new launch books like Punisher War Journal #1, White Tiger #1, and Moon Knight #1, Ultimate Spider-Man, several Civil War titles have extra content pages and Front Line had no ads for the first seven issues.

I could go on, but you get the point. And also please remember, the extra ads have in no way infringed upon the number of story pages.

There’s always a compromise that has to be struck when you’re dealing with decisions like these and all you can hope for is that you strike the right balance. Yes, there’s no denying that we have more ads these next two months, we’ll try to make it up to you as the new-year rolls along.

ClintP
12-02-2006, 04:16 AM
Yeah, what he said. They suck ass, but they will be fewer after the holidays.

dEnny!
12-02-2006, 04:19 AM
Captain America 24: great story, great art, but 24 pages of ads and 22 pages of story. This is just awful. No more than 2 concurrent pages of story; ads everywhere. I wouldn't mind that many ads if they just ran the story first and placed the ads in the back. I think it is shitty treatment from Marvel to people that bother to buy the actual comics as they come out; to disrupt the story with that much ad placement. People that wait for the trade may wait longer but get no ads and a much better reading experience. Powers that be at Marvel, please fix this!!:-x

We had a discussion on this awhile ago actually, and a representative of Marvel came by and was kind enough to respond. November/December are heavy ad months for Marvel and a publishing standard so during this two month period it will be normal, as it happened last year too, to expect 24 pages of ads


Just an FYI, this is something that is industry standard in all of publishing in Nov & December. Ads in magazines & comics (regardless of company) are highest in these two months thanks to the holiday shopping season & business trying to attract consumers. It sucks, but it is an inescapable facet of the industry.

There are two camps on this board about it, one side doesn't care and will say to just flip on by it, the other side feels it messes with the flow of the read and is irritating.

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=91822

dEnny!
12-02-2006, 04:20 AM
Don't steal my thunder Shwicaz! :mad:

NickT
12-02-2006, 04:22 AM
Captain America: 22 pages of story. Still.

Shwicaz
12-02-2006, 04:22 AM
Don't steal my thunder Shwicaz! :mad:

:grope:

see what taking a typing class can do for you, kids?

RobertTN
12-02-2006, 04:23 AM
Well, thanks for sharing that, but it still doesn't address the problem of the placement of the ads. They're spread through the whole damn issue to cause maximum disruption to story flow. Put some of those ads in the back and out of the way! With this latest Cap, they didn't strike the right balance at all.

ClintP
12-02-2006, 04:24 AM
I am in the camp that says just flip and be done with it. Would I like there to be little or no ads? sure. But just flip through them man. if they put ads in tpbs, that is when I raise hell.

NickT
12-02-2006, 04:24 AM
Well, thanks for sharing that, but it still doesn't address the problem of the placement of the ads. They're spread through the whole damn issue to cause maximum disruption to story flow. Put some of those ads in the back and out of the way! With this latest Cap, they didn't strike the right balance at all.
You put them at the back, you get less money. Thus, they'd then need to do more.

RobertTN
12-02-2006, 04:26 AM
We had a discussion on this awhile ago actually, and a representative of Marvel came by and was kind enough to respond. November/December are heavy ad months for Marvel and a publishing standard so during this two month period it will be normal, as it happened last year too, to expect 24 pages of ads



There are two camps on this board about it, one side doesn't care and will say to just flip on by it, the other side feels it messes with the flow of the read and is irritating.

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=91822

Thanks, I've noticed some of these threads before and considered leaping back on to one of them, but I was irritated enough to think it deserved a fresh post.

Shwicaz
12-02-2006, 04:28 AM
Well, thanks for sharing that, but it still doesn't address the problem of the placement of the ads. They're spread through the whole damn issue to cause maximum disruption to story flow. Put some of those ads in the back and out of the way! With this latest Cap, they didn't strike the right balance at all.

Joe actually addressed that in another column saying that the advertisers were the ones saying where in the issue they want their ad placed.

Most companies will do that to an advertising customer, but charge them extra money to do so.

Marvel is a company, and there job is to make money.

You aren't getting less story.

RobertTN
12-02-2006, 04:30 AM
You put them at the back, you get less money. Thus, they'd then need to do more.

Fine, do more, if they're in the back, no problem. Also, I think 3 or 4 ad breaks are reasonable, so they all don't have to be in the back. Marvel could sell those ads at a higher premium; I'm sure someone at Marvel could figure something out that is better than this.

RobertTN
12-02-2006, 04:33 AM
Joe actually addressed that in another column saying that the advertisers were the ones saying where in the issue they want their ad placed.

Most companies will do that to an advertising customer, but charge them extra money to do so.

Marvel is a company, and there job is to make money.

You aren't getting less story.

Their job is to make money, yes, but I've seen other posters drop Marvel titles over this, so it goes back to balance that Quesada was talking about. Marvel, the company, has to be responsive to customers as well as advertisors.

Garra
12-02-2006, 04:42 AM
You aren't getting less story.

True.

However, I am not able to enjoy my story as well as with no, or fewer ads.

And I understand that some people are not bothered by them. Wonderful, I am not arguing that, I wish I was not.

But I am. When I am reading and getting into something, the constant disruption in the story and the art is a disruption for me.

I understand that Marvel needs to make money, and I want them to make money. I do wish they could either A) put the ads together at the beginning or end of the books, or eve both, and leave the content of the story ad free. or B) How about swapping titles. In that little interview that is posted, he mentions titles that do not sell nearly as well being ad free. Switch it up then, put all your ads in those books instead of the ones that the majority of your customers purchase.(obviously the people who pay for the advertisments may not care for that, but since he was so quick to point out that those books were ad free, as if them not selling worth shit had nothing to do with the reason why, I'd like to see him keep the same stance and swap which books get the ads and which ones dont.)


AHHHHHH threads about to many ads.......NOW it feels like the holidays!

Happy Holidays everyone!

ClintP
12-02-2006, 04:42 AM
Their job is to make money, yes, but I've seen other posters drop Marvel titles over this, so it goes back to balance that Quesada was talking about. Marvel, the company, has to be responsive to customers as well as advertisors.

Have they actually dropped the books or just say that while in a pissy mood?

RobertTN
12-02-2006, 04:47 AM
Have they actually dropped the books or just say that while in a pissy mood?

I don't really know, but I tend to take people at their word on that; dropping a book is really easy to do generally, and you save money doing it...

ClintP
12-02-2006, 04:50 AM
True.

However, I am not able to enjoy my story as well as with no, or fewer ads.

And I understand that some people are not bothered by them. Wonderful, I am not arguing that, I wish I was not.

But I am. When I am reading and getting into something, the constant disruption in the story and the art is a disruption for me.

I understand that Marvel needs to make money, and I want them to make money. I do wish they could either A) put the ads together at the beginning or end of the books, or eve both, and leave the content of the story ad free. or B) How about swapping titles. In that little interview that is posted, he mentions titles that do not sell nearly as well being ad free. Switch it up then, put all your ads in those books instead of the ones that the majority of your customers purchase.(obviously the people who pay for the advertisments may not care for that, but since he was so quick to point out that those books were ad free, as if them not selling worth shit had nothing to do with the reason why, I'd like to see him keep the same stance and swap which books get the ads and which ones dont.)


AHHHHHH threads about to many ads.......NOW it feels like the holidays!

Happy Holidays everyone!
If I were going to pay for an ad to push shit, why would I put it in something that no one sees? :)

Shwicaz
12-02-2006, 04:52 AM
Their job is to make money, yes, but I've seen other posters drop Marvel titles over this, so it goes back to balance that Quesada was talking about. Marvel, the company, has to be responsive to customers as well as advertisors.


Have you actually 'seen them' no longer buy the title, or are they like those people who used to bitch about Chuck Austen and just say they are never going to buy the title again, only to bitch about it again the following month.....?


(not sayint that's what you will be doing)

Hell, even I have bitched about stuff (late shipping books) only to buy them when they come out.

I am a hypocrite. :surrend:

Shwicaz
12-02-2006, 04:54 AM
Clint P beat me to the comment.

:Oops:

Generic Poster
12-02-2006, 04:55 AM
Have they actually dropped the books or just say that while in a pissy mood?

I've dropped all the marvel books (in the sense of monthlies - I'll still buy the trades). I can see it not bothering some people, but it bothers the fuck out of me - to the point of making the issues unreadable.

The only exception is Ant-Man, because I really want that to do well, and it doesn't seem to be.

Garra
12-02-2006, 04:58 AM
If I were going to pay for an ad to push shit, why would I put it in something that no one sees? :)


I agree, your missing my point though.

Obviously, you wouldnt, but yet in his quote he throws that out there at us likes he is doing us a favor.

Oh sure Capt. America has 24 pages of ads, but Adventures of Garra has ZERO ads to make up for it!


Big whoopty do! :)

ClintP
12-02-2006, 04:58 AM
I've dropped all the marvel books (in the sense of monthlies - I'll still buy the trades). I can see it not bothering some people, but it bothers the fuck out of me - to the point of making the issues unreadable.

The only exception is Ant-Man, because I really want that to do well, and it doesn't seem to be.
Ok. And rock on about ANTMAN!

Shwicaz
12-02-2006, 04:59 AM
I agree, your missing my point though.

Obviously, you wouldnt, but yet in his quote he throws that out there at us likes he is doing us a favor.

Oh sure Capt. America has 24 pages of ads, but Adventures of Garra has ZERO ads to make up for it!


Big whoopty do! :)


Maybe he was letting all you people who hate ads in Marvel books which ones to pick up.

You say you hate ads, he says "then read these books that don't have them" and you still complain.

;)

:cool:

ClintP
12-02-2006, 05:00 AM
I agree, your missing my point though.

Obviously, you wouldnt, but yet in his quote he throws that out there at us likes he is doing us a favor.

Oh sure Capt. America has 24 pages of ads, but Adventures of Garra has ZERO ads to make up for it!


Big whoopty do! :)

Ok, ok, ok..... Ads suck! Happy?:cry:

Garra
12-02-2006, 05:03 AM
Ok, ok, ok..... Ads suck! Happy?:cry:

Estatic!

Garra
12-02-2006, 05:04 AM
Maybe he was letting all you people who hate ads in Marvel books which ones to pick up.

You say you hate ads, he says "then read these books that don't have them" and you still complain.

;)

:cool:

the man really is all heart.....:blah: :grope:

Shwicaz
12-02-2006, 05:08 AM
the man really is all heart.....:blah: :grope:


that made me laugh uproariously for some reason.

dEnny!
12-02-2006, 05:12 AM
Captain America: 22 pages of story. Still.

If you can find them. Story pages in November/December is like a Where's Waldo book. They are in there, just have to wade through a lot of pages to find them.

dEnny!
12-02-2006, 05:13 AM
Maybe he was letting all you people who hate ads in Marvel books which ones to pick up.

You say you hate ads, he says "then read these books that don't have them" and you still complain.

;)

:cool:

And that list was a who's who of Marvel books. There were some books where I wouldn't think an advertiser would want to waste his money based on the sales numbers of those titles.

Ashton
12-02-2006, 07:09 AM
if its just in the months of nov & dec I can live with that.

St.-
12-02-2006, 07:18 AM
We’ve published a number of no ad titles recently, Punisher Black and White, FF: The End Rough Cut, all the “Director’s Cuts”, “Must Haves” (or Must Haves style books), the Handbook A to Z and Marvel Spotlight to name a few.

but all of these they've pretty much made there money on already and I'm sure having a book in black and white costs much less as well.

dEnny!
12-02-2006, 07:38 AM
but all of these they've pretty much made there money on already and I'm sure having a book in black and white costs much less as well.

It's called "spin."

St.-
12-02-2006, 07:39 AM
It's called "spin."

yeah and he's doing a horrible job with it.

Taxman
12-03-2006, 02:06 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/glima/Fake%20Awards/Thudpucker.gif

Ben
12-03-2006, 02:16 PM
Great, another [bad word removed by moderator] thread!

Ben
12-03-2006, 02:18 PM
If you notice the ads so much that they "disrupt the flow" of the story, you're not that into the story and should stop reading that comic forever.

Akira
12-03-2006, 02:22 PM
some of these suggestions are truly ridiculous. can you imagine a tv show placing all of their ads at the beginning or end of an episode? no because it defeats the very purpose of the ads in the first place :roll:

Dusty
12-03-2006, 02:38 PM
I don't really care about the ads. I do wonder why they rarely advertise their own books or collections.

If they ever use that "paper shortage" excuse to jack up prices again, and it's expected for us to be made to sacrifice because of the ad overkill, then I'll bitch about it.

RobertTN
12-03-2006, 03:05 PM
some of these suggestions are truly ridiculous. can you imagine a tv show placing all of their ads at the beginning or end of an episode? no because it defeats the very purpose of the ads in the first place :roll:

That analogy would be right, if we were talking about the Captain America TV show. A comic book is not a TV show, to suggest it is would be truly ridiculous…

NickT
12-03-2006, 03:09 PM
That analogy would be right, if we were talking about the Captain America TV show. A comic book is not a TV show, to suggest it is would be truly ridiculous…
The anology works perfect. You can't put all the ads at the end, as people would then simply skip the ads, meaning you get less money from said ads. You can argue that comics are different, but the analogy is still sound because it follows the same logic and principles.

RobertTN
12-03-2006, 03:10 PM
If you notice the ads so much that they "disrupt the flow" of the story, you're not that into the story and should stop reading that comic forever.

OK, and I thought I was overreacting, but you topped me….

Really, am I not allowed to read and enjoy the story and complain about the excessive ads? I’m not complaining just for the sake of whining, I had hoped someone somewhere at Marvel might pay attention if enough of us voiced displeasure.

citizenDave
12-03-2006, 03:11 PM
If you notice the ads so much that they "disrupt the flow" of the story, you're not that into the story and should stop reading that comic forever.

Actually, it's quite the opposite, it is because one is so into the story that having three consecutive pages of ads, or every other page be an ad, that is so jarring and disruptive for the reader. Like an intense scene in a movie on tv, that suddenly cuts to commercial.

ClintP
12-03-2006, 03:11 PM
I read it and I didn't notice too many ads. Are we even sure the complaint was for the right book? I mean, it was said that there were not two pages of content together, but I saw many 2 pages. Is this like a bizzaro version or something?

ClintP
12-03-2006, 03:12 PM
Actually, it's quite the oppoisite, it is because one is so into the story that having three consecutive pages of ads, or every other page be an ad, that is so jarring and disruptive for the reader. Like an intense seen in a movie on tv, that suddenly cuts to commercial.
Isn't that a tease to get you to come back?

RobertTN
12-03-2006, 03:13 PM
The anology works perfect. You can't put all the ads at the end, as people would then simply skip the ads, meaning you get less money from said ads. You can argue that comics are different, but the analogy is still sound because it follows the same logic and principles.

No, the analogy is flawed. I could just as easily compare a comic with a movie, where ads are now run at the front of the movie, but not in between movie scenes. It is a different medium entirely and you are cherry picking an analogy that suits your argument best.

citizenDave
12-03-2006, 03:13 PM
Isn't that a tease to get you to come back?

No. Your thinking of a scene ending in a clifhanger. When a movie is broadcast on tv, they may cut into it at awkward moments that were not intended for an ad.

ClintP
12-03-2006, 03:16 PM
No. Your thinking of a scene ending in a clifhanger. When a movie is broadcast on tv, they may cut into it at awkward moments that were not intended for an ad.
Ah. What about when they bust in on your show for some "special report" and never re-air the lost parts?

RobertTN
12-03-2006, 03:16 PM
I read it and I didn't notice too many ads. Are we even sure the complaint was for the right book? I mean, it was said that there were not two pages of content together, but I saw many 2 pages. Is this like a bizzaro version or something?

No, I just said there were not more than 2 pages together. Captain America 24.

ClintP
12-03-2006, 03:18 PM
No, I just said there were not more than 2 pages together. Captain America 24.
Ah. Now I need to go read it again looking for that to prove you wrong!:twisted: Also, you really are pissed. You are still on here defending your rant. Well, played nube, well played.

citizenDave
12-03-2006, 03:18 PM
...and the Guiding Light eight-page story.

Oh, nevermind. This makes it all worthwhile.

citizenDave
12-03-2006, 03:19 PM
Ah. What about when they bust in on your show for some "special report" and never re-air the lost parts?

It sucks. But, I don't see how that relates to ad placement in comics.

ClintP
12-03-2006, 03:21 PM
It sucks. But, I don't see how that relates to ad placement in comics.
Yeah, that was more or less a tangent. I hate that WAY more than comic ads. Fuck the snow storm, give me back my Desperate Housewives!

NickT
12-03-2006, 03:22 PM
No, the analogy is flawed. I could just as easily compare a comic with a movie, where ads are now run at the front of the movie, but not in between movie scenes. It is a different medium entirely and you are cherry picking an analogy that suits your argument best.
Comics are more comparable to TV as they are in segments. More comparable to a movie is a trade or GN, which features no ads during the story.

citizenDave
12-03-2006, 03:24 PM
Yeah, that was more or less a tangent. I hate that WAY more than comic ads. Fuck the snow storm, give me back my Desperate Housewives!

Now I have no respect for you.

RobertTN
12-03-2006, 03:27 PM
Comics are more comparable to TV as they are in segments. More comparable to a movie is a trade or GN, which features no ads during the story.

That’s a good point, I’ll give you that. But they are still more like a movie in that you pay for a movie, so you’d be rightly pissed if they cut it up with ads. You don’t pay for a television show and therefore tolerate ads knowing that’s the show’s bread and butter. Comics cost $2.99 now; more like a movie scenario. Now, I could handle it if Marvel reduced the cost to $1.99 an issue and ran a bunch of ads to offset the cost. I don’t like ads, but the cheapskate in me could live with that…:)

ClintP
12-03-2006, 03:29 PM
That’s a good point, I’ll give you that. But they are still more like a movie in that you pay for a movie, so you’d be rightly pissed if they cut it up with ads. You don’t pay for a television show and therefore tolerate ads knowing that’s the show’s bread and butter. Comics cost $2.99 now; more like a movie scenario. Now, I could handle it if Marvel reduced the cost to $1.99 an issue and ran a bunch of ads to offset the cost. I don’t like ads, but the cheapskate in me could live with that…:)
Not that I like to debate, but what about a newspaper? Sometimes crap on the cover of page one is not even in the same section of the entire paper? That can sideline your train of thought too, right?

ClintP
12-03-2006, 03:33 PM
Now I have no respect for you.
:cry: But I watch it with the wifey. I won't let her wrangle me into her reality tv, but I watch that with her. She lets me get comics no questions asked and she watches the DCU cartoons. This is my come-up-ins. This over crappy "chick flicks" any day!:)

citizenDave
12-03-2006, 03:34 PM
Not that I like to debate, but what about a newspaper? Sometimes crap on the cover of page one is not even in the same section of the entire paper? That can sideline your train of thought too, right?

I think since it's a completely different form of story, it's not comparable. In a comic, the reader wants to immerse himself in a 22 page narrative. Newspapers and magazines are typically informational, and in the case of a newspaper, the story is only on two pages. Also, how are newspapers doing these days, anyway?

Ben
12-03-2006, 03:34 PM
That analogy would be right, if we were talking about the Captain America TV show. A comic book is not a TV show, to suggest it is would be truly ridiculous…I don't think you really understand what "analogies" are all about.

RobertTN
12-03-2006, 03:37 PM
Not that I like to debate, but what about a newspaper? Sometimes crap on the cover of page one is not even in the same section of the entire paper? That can sideline your train of thought too, right?

Well that might be a better analogy than TV or movies because we’re at least back in good ol’ print. But while we’re at it, what about books? Why not throw some ads in all through novels? Make a 300 page novel 670 pages with tons of ads interspersed? You can flip right past the ads if you don’t like it and get back to the novel a couple of pages down, so what would be the big deal?

ClintP
12-03-2006, 03:38 PM
I think since it's a completely different form of story, it's not comparable. In a comic, the reader wants to immerse himself in a 22 page narrative. Newspapers and magazines are typically informational, and in the case of a newspaper, the story is only on two pages. Also, how are newspapers doing these days, anyway?

How the fuck should I know? I won't even take the free trials they offer when they knock on my door twice a year!:)

RobertTN
12-03-2006, 03:39 PM
Ah. Now I need to go read it again looking for that to prove you wrong!:twisted: Also, you really are pissed. You are still on here defending your rant. Well, played nube, well played.

Ah, I’m not so much pissed, I’m just convinced I’m totally right, that’s all; and thank you sir.

citizenDave
12-03-2006, 03:39 PM
Well that might be a better analogy than TV or movies because we’re at least back in good ol’ print. But while we’re at it, what about books? Why not throw some ads in all through novels? Make a 300 page novel 670 pages with tons of ads interspersed? You can flip right past the ads if you don’t like it and get back to the novel a couple of pages down, so what would be the big deal?

And they could be text ads that use the same font so that you don't realize it's an ad at first because it looks like a regular page of story!

ClintP
12-03-2006, 03:39 PM
Well that might be a better analogy than TV or movies because we’re at least back in good ol’ print. But while we’re at it, what about books? Why not throw some ads in all through novels? Make a 300 page novel 670 pages with tons of ads interspersed? You can flip right past the ads if you don’t like it and get back to the novel a couple of pages down, so what would be the big deal?
Putting an ad in a novel would suck ass! Also, they will never do that since novels are real and comics are fake!

ClintP
12-03-2006, 03:40 PM
And they could be text ads that use the same font so that you don't realize it's an ad at first because it looks like a regular page of story!
That would REALLY suck!

RobertTN
12-03-2006, 03:44 PM
I don't think you really understand what "analogies" are all about.

Oh, I understand; I was just using your own language back at you. If you want to get technical, I just think it was a poor analogy.

RobertTN
12-03-2006, 04:02 PM
Putting an ad in a novel would suck ass! Also, they will never do that since novels are real and comics are fake!

exactly!

Akira
12-03-2006, 04:38 PM
Well that might be a better analogy than TV or movies because we’re at least back in good ol’ print. But while we’re at it, what about books? Why not throw some ads in all through novels? Make a 300 page novel 670 pages with tons of ads interspersed? You can flip right past the ads if you don’t like it and get back to the novel a couple of pages down, so what would be the big deal?

Movies/novels/dvds/cds/satellites radio/premium cable/anything that you pay a premium price for:Trades and graphic novels::Broadcast tv/basic cable tv/broadcast radio/newspapers/magazines/the majority of "free" websites:Single issues.

Is this concept really that difficult to grasp? Businesses are in the business of staying in business i.e. making money. Either they charge you a premium price (based on what the market will support) and you get your information/entertainment/what have you relatively ad and interruption free, or you get it for a lesser price or for free and deal with ads. It's the way Capitalism works, and has worked for a long time. It's not just Marvel, it's not just comics, it's not just print, it's not even just the entertainment industry. When was the last time you dialed 411 and weren't charged for information? There's a free alternative (1-800-FREE411) but guess what? In exchange for providing you a service for free that others pay for, you're forced to listen to ads before they give you the info you called for. What you hate isn't this issue, Marvel, or even the industry. It's Capitalism you pinko!

(Did I just channel Van Sciver there? :scared: )

A.Huerta
12-03-2006, 04:47 PM
MArvel hates us all.

Akira
12-03-2006, 04:49 PM
As for when and where the ads are placed, this goes back to the whole "business of staying in business" thing. Why the hell would an advertiser spend their money advertising their product or company in a place where the ad wouldn't be seen or could just be ignored and skipped in general? That defeats the entire purpose of advertising in the first place.

RobertTN
12-03-2006, 05:15 PM
Movies/novels/dvds/cds/satellites radio/premium cable/anything that you pay a premium price for:Trades and graphic novels::Broadcast tv/basic cable tv/broadcast radio/newspapers/magazines/the majority of "free" websites:Single issues.

Is this concept really that difficult to grasp? Businesses are in the business of staying in business i.e. making money. Either they charge you a premium price (based on what the market will support) and you get your information/entertainment/what have you relatively ad and interruption free, or you get it for a lesser price or for free and deal with ads. It's the way Capitalism works, and has worked for a long time. It's not just Marvel, it's not just comics, it's not just print, it's not even just the entertainment industry. When was the last time you dialed 411 and weren't charged for information? There's a free alternative (1-800-FREE411) but guess what? In exchange for providing you a service for free that others pay for, you're forced to listen to ads before they give you the info you called for. What you hate isn't this issue, Marvel, or even the industry. It's Capitalism you pinko!

(Did I just channel Van Sciver there? :scared: )

Now I have to get lectures on Capitalism. Well, thanks professor, but I am still in speaking from that very same playground. Never once did I suggest that we tax the hell out of you and Van Sciver so poor people could get free comics; but there is a little thing called “consumer demand,” and I was trying to go that route a bit. Plus, spare me the “staying in business” line; other companies manage to stay in business without such heavy ad saturation, so surely it can be done. Sheesh, why you gotta be such a hater?

Clayton James
12-03-2006, 06:10 PM
if this is just a seasonal thing, I'm cool I guess.

Still: I wish they would move them to the back of the books again like last year and take steps to make sure the adds do not hinder the storytelling of the comics (ala Antman), which should be their top priority.

Shwicaz
12-03-2006, 06:14 PM
if this is just a seasonal thing, I'm cool I guess.

Still: I wish they would move them to the back of the books again like last year and take steps to make sure the adds do not hinder the storytelling of the comics (ala Antman), which should be their top priority.



Joe responded to this, too:


Q: “that dude” & “CKdoubleU” (combined questions) - I was looking back at some of the old Joe Fridays after what you said about advertisements this past week. This was what I found.

Joe Quesada, on 21 October 2005:-

"We're very aware of the problem, and we're going to rectify it. ... We've heard the fans and will make sure that their reading experience is the number one priority and not the ads. They will be seeing short and long-term resolutions in the next couple of weeks."

Joe Quesada, on 11 November 2005:-

"We've been looking to resolve this as quickly as we can, which is why I'm proud to say that come December, all our books go back to their normal page counts. And in the future, if we ever find ourselves in this sort of dilemma again, we will place the bulk of the ads towards the back of the books so as to interrupt the stories as little as possible."

Now here it is, One Year Later (pardon the pun), and titles such as Uncanny X-Men #480, Phoenix: Warsong # 3, and The Irredeemable Ant-Man #2 are riddled with ads - some full-page in-house ads - with seemingly no attempt to "place the bulk of the ads toward (sic) the back."

So not to be blunt, but what gives?

JQ: Hey, guys, thanks for the blunt question. A blunt question deserves a blunt answer.

So, what gives?

What gives is that the advertisers got wise to our game and placed commitments in regards to placement of their ads. Requests range from 1st half of a book, front third, etc... Additionally, we simply sold more ads, which made it more difficult to put in content that would break up the ads.

The blunt answer is that we are doing are best to manage the line-ups, but we cannot pass up the opportunity to service advertisers in the months that they want to advertise. If we turn them down now we will not get their business later.

It‘s also safe to assume that we will be having this type of problem every November and December for the foreseeable future.

citizenDave
12-03-2006, 06:55 PM
Joe responded to this, too:

I wouldn't want to make that choice: who do you serve, the advertisers or the readers? They're both giving you money. If you lose advertising dollars, that's a problem. But it doesn't matter if there's nobody around to read the ads.

DaveCummings
12-03-2006, 07:07 PM
I swear, I think I am the only one who's not bugged at all or isn't even paying attention to how many ads are in comics. Then again, I'm not fucking counting how many ads are in a comic.

I mean, who fucking cares. Are they cutting the number of story pages? no, so settle down. Just step away from the keyboard and take a few deep breaths.

I AM GROOT!
12-03-2006, 07:09 PM
Wait, you mean this was a Captain America story? What the--? I'm suing! :mad:

citizenDave
12-03-2006, 07:28 PM
I swear, I think I am the only one who's not bugged at all or isn't even paying attention to how many ads are in comics. Then again, I'm not fucking counting how many ads are in a comic.

I mean, who fucking cares. Are they cutting the number of story pages? no, so settle down. Just step away from the keyboard and take a few deep breaths.

Thanks for the insight.

Blandy vs Terrorism
12-03-2006, 07:28 PM
That analogy would be right, if we were talking about the Captain America TV show. A comic book is not a TV show, to suggest it is would be truly ridiculous…

It applies completely to both. If they moved all the commercials on tv to after the episode ends, people just wouldn't be watching then because they'd be up doing other stuff during that 10 minutes until the next show they watch comes on. If all the ads in comic books were at the end, very few people would ever see them because they'd put the book down after finishing the story and move to the next one.

citizenDave
12-03-2006, 07:31 PM
It applies completely to both. If they moved all the commercials on tv to after the episode ends, people just wouldn't be watching then because they'd be up doing other stuff during that 10 minutes until the next show they watch comes on. If all the ads in comic books were at the end, very few people would ever see them because they'd put the book down after finishing the story and move to the next one.

So they should only put the ads after the end of a scene, and the creators will know beforehand where all the ads are and be able to create the book with that in mind. If you want to keep with the tv analogy.

Blandy vs Terrorism
12-03-2006, 07:34 PM
So they should only put the ads after the end of a scene, and the creators will know beforehand where all the ads are and be able to create the book with that in mind. If you want to keep with the tv analogy.

That I could agree with. I remember a couple months back in Bru's DD, where there was an extremely emotional scene, and right in the middle of it was a two page spreads. It's only times like that where the ads bother me, or when there are four pages in a row of ads.

ClintP
12-04-2006, 05:02 AM
Movies/novels/dvds/cds/satellites radio/premium cable/anything that you pay a premium price for:Trades and graphic novels::Broadcast tv/basic cable tv/broadcast radio/newspapers/magazines/the majority of "free" websites:Single issues.

Is this concept really that difficult to grasp? Businesses are in the business of staying in business i.e. making money. Either they charge you a premium price (based on what the market will support) and you get your information/entertainment/what have you relatively ad and interruption free, or you get it for a lesser price or for free and deal with ads. It's the way Capitalism works, and has worked for a long time. It's not just Marvel, it's not just comics, it's not just print, it's not even just the entertainment industry. When was the last time you dialed 411 and weren't charged for information? There's a free alternative (1-800-FREE411) but guess what? In exchange for providing you a service for free that others pay for, you're forced to listen to ads before they give you the info you called for. What you hate isn't this issue, Marvel, or even the industry. It's Capitalism you pinko!

(Did I just channel Van Sciver there? :scared: )
How does it go? clap clap clap..... more clapping..... standing ovation!

ClintP
12-04-2006, 05:06 AM
That I could agree with. I remember a couple months back in Bru's DD, where there was an extremely emotional scene, and right in the middle of it was a two page spreads. It's only times like that where the ads bother me, or when there are four pages in a row of ads.
Now we have writers writing for the trade and for the ads!:frustrat:

RobertTN
12-04-2006, 07:10 AM
How does it go? clap clap clap..... more clapping..... standing ovation!

A standing ovation to that post? Not everyone agreed with me on this issue, which is fine, but that post was astoundingly oversimplified to the point of being moronic. People who complain about ad saturation in comics are communists; great; Bendis Board McCarthyites. Clap, clap, clap…:roll:

ClintP
12-04-2006, 07:14 AM
A standing ovation to that post? Not everyone agreed with me on this issue, which is fine, but that post was astoundingly oversimplified to the point of being moronic. People who complain about ad saturation in comics are communists; great; Bendis Board McCarthyites. Clap, clap, clap…:roll:
The Van Sciver part and the communists part just made me laugh is all. Have you had the pleasure of chatting with Van Sciver here yet? If not, you are in a real treat! When he makes he presence known to you, just sit back and wait for everyone to get all pissed. Watching him piss people off is the greatest form or entertainment know to man!:lol:

RobertTN
12-04-2006, 08:38 AM
The Van Sciver part and the communists part just made me laugh is all. Have you had the pleasure of chatting with Van Sciver here yet? If not, you are in a real treat! When he makes he presence known to you, just sit back and wait for everyone to get all pissed. Watching him piss people off is the greatest form or entertainment know to man!:lol:

Ah, sorry, didn't catch what you meant then. I actually have had the pleasure of encountering Mr. Van Sciver, and I agree, he's a right funny guy, and I do mean right. I would've suggested Van Sciver to work with Bendis on that new top secret deal Bendis posted about if he wasn't DC exclusive at the moment; the guy can draw as good as he can piss off message boarders!

Billie
12-06-2006, 09:36 PM
Okay,I really had issues with ads being on every other page with the exception of the cap spread.

I mean come on,Jim @ Marvel where you at bud?!You must put an end to this!