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Kefky
11-18-2006, 09:42 AM
59 64 49.24 CABLE DEADPOOL #33 $2.99 MAR
60 65 48.67 BIRDS O/PREY #99 $2.99 DC
61 66 47.45 THUNDERBOLTS #107 $2.99 MAR
62 68 47.25 IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #1 $2.99 MAR
63 69 46.91 MARTIAN MANHUNTER #3 (Of 8) $2.99 DC
64 70 46.67 CONAN #33 (MR) $2.99 DAR
65 48 46.1 MYSTERY I/SPACE #2 (Of 8) $3.99 DC
66 71 45.57 ALL NEW ATOM #4

This won't even make it past issue 12. Blade is doing even worse! :surrend:


72 76 43.52 BLADE #2 $2.99 MAR

Dennis K
11-18-2006, 09:45 AM
Well thanks for shitting on my day, I love the Irredeemable Ant-Man. Give a shit about Blade though.

Kefky
11-18-2006, 09:46 AM
Well thanks for shitting on my day, I love the Irredeemable Ant-Man.

I must NEVER suffer alone! :-x

Dennis K
11-18-2006, 09:48 AM
Obviously you Brazilians are at fault here.

TheKraken
11-18-2006, 09:49 AM
How is it every one claims to love Blade and love the Blade movies and they can't keep a Blade book in print? Hell, I think the character's kinda boring and the movies suck and even I'm buying this comic. It's fun, dammit.

Kefky
11-18-2006, 09:50 AM
How is it every one claims to love Blade and love the Blade movies and they can't keep a Blade book in print? Hell, I think the character's kinda boring and the movies suck and even I'm buying this comic. It's fun, dammit.

They should've gone with the Millar/Corben pitch.

Raphael J
11-18-2006, 09:59 AM
Aww man. I'm really enjoying this!

:sad:

Fake Pat
11-18-2006, 10:03 AM
They should've gone with the Millar/Corben pitch.

hell yes. i would have been all over that.

A.Huerta
11-18-2006, 10:06 AM
I don't like the artist on Blade, they need someone dark and gritty. And I love Kirkman but Ant-Man? Just not a cool concept, IMO.

Pat Loika
11-18-2006, 10:08 AM
And I love Kirkman but Ant-Man? Just not a cool concept, IMO.

Have you even read it?

P.

joeAR
11-18-2006, 10:09 AM
It sold 47,000 copies, how is it in danger of getting cancelled again?

Fake Pat
11-18-2006, 10:10 AM
I don't like the artist on Blade, they need someone dark and gritty. And I love Kirkman but Ant-Man? Just not a cool concept, IMO.

have you picked up either of the issues? it's a damn good book.

i'm not really a kirkman fan, and i'm not especially fond of ant-man either, but this book is impressing the hell out of me.

A.Huerta
11-18-2006, 10:11 AM
Have you even read it?

P.

I read the quick preview in choosing sides. I'm going to check out Iron Fist, Thunderbolts, Omega Flight but I'm going NO on Ant-Man.

Pat Loika
11-18-2006, 10:12 AM
I read the quick preview in choosing sides. I'm going to check out Iron Fist, Thunderbolts, Omega Flight but I'm going NO on Ant-Man.

Well, its your loss. Its a damn good book, and there's more to Ant-Man than the name or concept.

P.

Kefky
11-18-2006, 10:13 AM
It sold 47,000 copies, how is it in danger of getting cancelled again?

That's the index number, and it's MUCH higher than usual. Punisher MAX sells a rock solid 30k every month, and its index number is 56k. So that means ant-man sold around 25k or so.

Dennis K
11-18-2006, 10:14 AM
Well, its your loss. Its a damn good book, and there's more to Ant-Man than the name or concept.

P.


The ending of issue #2 caught me totally off-guard.

Brad N.
11-18-2006, 10:15 AM
This sucks. I heard Hester and Kirkman were supposed to be contracted for 18 issues off the bat or something so I'm hoping this is the fun little series that could. Some of Marvel's best books aren't selling that well so there is at least hope word of mouth or proper promotion will keep it going.

Fake Pat
11-18-2006, 10:15 AM
Well, its your loss. Its a damn good book, and there's more to Ant-Man than the name or concept.

P.

agreed.

the "concept" of the book has a lot more to do with the individual in the suit than "ant-man" as a hero. so far it kinda feels like walking dead with superheros as the backdrop instead of zombies.

NickT
11-18-2006, 10:26 AM
It sold 47,000 copies, how is it in danger of getting cancelled again?
Keep in mind, that is for #1. #2 will drop by AT LEAST 10%, and that would be an absolute miracle drop. More likely around 30%.


Plus, BOP sells an estimated 30k, so Ant-Man will be roughly there too.

Princesa
11-18-2006, 10:47 AM
I really like the Antman book I don't care for what they did to Blade though. I liked the movies and tv show but this guy is not that Blade.

Albert
11-18-2006, 10:48 AM
agreed.

the "concept" of the book has a lot more to do with the individual in the suit than "ant-man" as a hero. so far it kinda feels like walking dead with superheros as the backdrop instead of zombies.

And since when are "concepts" really that important to a super-hero comic? That's like saying, I don't like spiders, so Spider-Man isn't for me.

Fake Pat
11-18-2006, 10:50 AM
And since when are "concepts" really that important to a super-hero comic? That's like saying, I don't like spiders, so Spider-Man isn't for me.

i don't know.

i agree with you for the most part, but i can kinda understand somebody not being too excited for a book about a guy that can shrink and talk to ants.

that being said, this new series is friggin' great and should be bought and enjoyed by all.

THWIP!
11-18-2006, 10:59 AM
antman is fucking awesome.

Anna
11-18-2006, 11:00 AM
And since when are "concepts" really that important to a super-hero comic? That's like saying, I don't like spiders, so Spider-Man isn't for me.

I know someone who doesn't like Daredevil because he thinks DD's gimmick is a cheat. He's a blind man... who can see!

Howlett
11-18-2006, 11:02 AM
I know someone who doesn't like Daredevil because he thinks DD's gimmick is a cheat. He's a blind man... who can see!

Wait, Daredevil can see? :shock:

THAT LYING BASTARD!!! *shakes fist at fictional character*

Anna
11-18-2006, 11:10 AM
Wait, Daredevil can see? :shock:

THAT LYING BASTARD!!! *shakes fist at fictional character*

His complaint is that DD's disability is not really, well, a disability. It doesn't put him in disadvantage like, say, Barbara Gordon's handicap. Matt's enhanced senses combined are better than seeing.

I, however, have no problem with that.

Howlett
11-18-2006, 11:13 AM
His complaint is that DD's disability is not really, well, a disability. It doesn't put him in disadvantage like, say, Barbara Gordon's handicap. Matt's enhanced senses combined are better than seeing.

I, however, have no problem with that.

I got it. I was just being me :Oops:

A.Huerta
11-18-2006, 11:15 AM
And since when are "concepts" really that important to a super-hero comic? That's like saying, I don't like spiders, so Spider-Man isn't for me.

I know some people who dont like the idea of Captain America.

twigglet
11-18-2006, 11:16 AM
Yeah, that is a shame, but I couldn't afford to pick it up, with everything else which is coming out

Anna
11-18-2006, 11:20 AM
I got it. I was just being me :Oops:

:blurp:

Howlett
11-18-2006, 11:22 AM
:blurp:

:shock: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, I wasn't expecting that to happen after talking comics. Thats gotta be a first :lol:

c.rob
11-18-2006, 11:24 AM
This sucks, i love both these books.

Anna
11-18-2006, 11:25 AM
:shock: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, I wasn't expecting that to happen after talking comics. Thats gotta be a first :lol:

Omg, WHAT? I use it because I think it's a cuter version of the yellow :P smiley... :scared:

Olivier E.
11-18-2006, 11:29 AM
Omg, WHAT? I use it because I think it's a cuter version of the yellow :P smiley... :scared:


:scared: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunilingus)

Josh!
11-18-2006, 11:29 AM
hhmmm... maybe I'll give Ant-Man a look.

Tom Burgos
11-18-2006, 11:29 AM
I like the original Ant-Man and I like both Kirkman and Hester, but the previews I have seen make this book seem like too much on the comedy side, which I don't really care for in established superhero comic books(or in this case, established superhero concept comic books), thus I didn't pick it up.

That's mostly (but not entirely) why I dropped Slott's She-hulk and have never read Cable/Deadpool, Ellis' Nextwave or Zeb Wells' New Warriors.
I don't mind humor sprinkled in my superhero comics, humor is part of life, and many serious situations lead to humorous moments, and That I totally appreciate in a superhero comic, but when the entire concept and execution of the book becomes comical I just can't stand it.

Howlett
11-18-2006, 11:32 AM
Omg, WHAT? I use it because I think it's a cuter version of the yellow :P smiley... :scared:

This ---> :p = Sticking out the tounge.

THIS ---> :blurp: = Licking someone :lol:

It's cool though, just being me again :p ......... or do I mean :blurp: :shifty:

Anna
11-18-2006, 11:35 AM
This ---> :p = Sticking out the tounge.

THIS ---> :blurp: = Licking someone :lol:

EXCUSE ME WHILE I DIE OF EMBARRASSMENT KTHNX.

(I find the :p smiley ugly, alas.)

John M. Coker (Johnny C.)
11-18-2006, 11:40 AM
I didn't think Ant-Man would go through 8 issues before getting the axe, so if it lasts 12 before we hear about a cancelation, I'll be surprised.

Howlett
11-18-2006, 11:41 AM
EXCUSE ME WHILE I DIE OF EMBARRASSMENT KTHNX.

(I find the :p smiley ugly, alas.)

Ah it's not that bad. If you want, we could just say you were blitzed drunk :D

I use it, but yeah, it's pretty crappy. That and the eye rolling one are way over-used.

Donal DeLay
11-18-2006, 11:46 AM
Where are these figures at? I'd kinda like to see how well Invincible, and Walking Dead are doing compared to Ant-Man and Ultimate X-Men.

Pat Shatner
11-18-2006, 12:03 PM
Fucking hell! Every time I jump on board a new title like this I find out its in danger of cancellation.
Irredeemable Ant-Man is a fucking great light-hearted, funny, mildly over the top good comic. I picked up the first two issues of Blade, too, and it wasn't that bad. Good enough for a read if you've got the extra three bucks. Ant-Man, though? C'mon!! It's a great book!

Kefky
11-18-2006, 12:04 PM
Where are these figures at? I'd kinda like to see how well Invincible, and Walking Dead are doing compared to Ant-Man and Ultimate X-Men.

UXM sells roughly 70k, but the book sells that well no matter who's writing, so it's not a very good meter.

Walking dead and invincible sells 20k, but they're indy book published by image. They can go as low as 10k before they get canned. Marvel doesn't let their books go too much lower than 20k, usually.

Albert
11-18-2006, 12:43 PM
i don't know.

i agree with you for the most part, but i can kinda understand somebody not being too excited for a book about a guy that can shrink and talk to ants.

that being said, this new series is friggin' great and should be bought and enjoyed by all.

Yeah but those things are just a springboard - as they are in the new series. It's not like the character has ever been aimed at hardcore ant buffs.

Jerome Gibbons
11-18-2006, 01:02 PM
I know someone who doesn't like Daredevil because he thinks DD's gimmick is a cheat. He's a blind man... who can see!
Heh. I once heard someone say that they couldn't get into Bendis' DD because he writes Matt too much like a "blind ninja lawyer with the amazing power of...sight". I laughed out loud for a LONG time when I read that.


That's mostly (but not entirely) why I dropped Slott's She-hulk and have never read Cable/Deadpool, Ellis' Nextwave or Zeb Wells' New Warriors.
Dude, if you're ever, ever, ever, ever going to read any of those books in your life, let it be Nextwave. No sly against the other books, but Nextwave is just on another level of awesomeness. I understand it's not the kinda book you're into, and that's cool, really, but totally think you'd be missing out if you didn't give it at least a look.

"You know I growed in a trailer park!"

YouStayClassy
11-18-2006, 01:10 PM
That's just scary.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 01:15 PM
I don't see why anyone would think it's already on the chopping block, geez, only 2 issues have come out. Talking about it like it's already dead in the water is what makes some people afraid of jumping on board. It's nearly a self-fulfilling prophecy. Personally, I'm really liking it so far and I have a feeling it could devolop a nice cult status if we keep a positive outlook on it and do our best to get other people to check it out. It could get a Runaways affect going.

jason hissong
11-18-2006, 01:17 PM
I read the first issue and decided it wasn't for me. But more power to you if it is for you.

ClintP
11-18-2006, 01:34 PM
I love both and hope they stay around for a LONG time.

andrew french
11-18-2006, 01:52 PM
that sucks.

i'm not buying the book, but i like antman.

Kefky
11-18-2006, 02:02 PM
I don't see why anyone would think it's already on the chopping block, geez, only 2 issues have come out. Talking about it like it's already dead in the water is what makes some people afraid of jumping on board. It's nearly a self-fulfilling prophecy. Personally, I'm really liking it so far and I have a feeling it could devolop a nice cult status if we keep a positive outlook on it and do our best to get other people to check it out. It could get a Runaways affect going.

I really, REALLY wish I could be more optimistic, I've been looking forward to this book since day one because it seems like the most personal thing Kirkman's ever done for marvel. But I've been looking at these lists every month for years, and it isn't difficult to notice the trends. The only way for this book to survive with that debut number is if marvel does the "seasons" thing, like they did with she-hulk and runaways. They'll keep it going all the way to 12, but issue 25? Not with those numbers.

bartleby
11-18-2006, 02:02 PM
I don't see why anyone would think it's already on the chopping block, geez, only 2 issues have come out.


Cause books tend to lose readers easier than they gain readers. Granted there are exceptions, but typically the first issue of a book is the highest selling.

Donal DeLay
11-18-2006, 02:08 PM
Has the book gone down in sales since issue 1?

Kefky
11-18-2006, 02:11 PM
Has the book gone down in sales since issue 1?

It's impossible for a book NOT go down in sales after the first issue. And in today's market, 98% of the books being published are one never-ending downward slope.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 02:37 PM
Cause books tend to lose readers easier than they gain readers. Granted there are exceptions, but typically the first issue of a book is the highest selling.

I wouldn't dispute that. But the idea that a book that doesn't sell X number of copies with it's first issue is going to be cancelled seems pretty extreme and it causes this doomsday scenario. Ant-Man is lower tiered character and is going to need some time to build momentum and a fan base. Selling 40,000 copies or so was probably expected and accounted for. I don't think it's already in danger of being cancelled. An i hope people don't leave it just because that notion gets put in their head.

Kefky
11-18-2006, 02:46 PM
I wouldn't dispute that. But the idea that a book that doesn't sell X number of copies with it's first issue is going to be cancelled seems pretty extreme and it causes this doomsday scenario. Ant-Man is lower tiered character and is going to need some time to build momentum and a fan base. Selling 40,000 copies or so was probably expected and accounted for. I don't think it's already in danger of being cancelled. An i hope people don't leave it just because that notion gets put in their head.

See, it's not 40,000 copies. That's the index number. If it was that, I'd be satisfied right now. But like I said in my other post, going by those numbers, punisher max, which normally sells 30k a month, is 20k higher than ant-man. That means ant-man must've sold around 25k, 27 at the most. And that's a pretty awful number.

bartleby
11-18-2006, 02:57 PM
From a business standpoint, I can't make much sense of Marvel's decision to even launch an Ant-man ongoing series without an A-list creative team. And I don't see a lot of upside in keeping the book around trying to find an audience. Maybe you pick up some new readers with the trade, but I can see it being enough to make this book a viable product.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 02:58 PM
See, it's not 40,000 copies. That's the index number. If it was that, I'd be satisfied right now. But like I said in my other post, going by those numbers, punisher max, which normally sells 30k a month, is 20k higher than ant-man. That means ant-man must've sold around 25k, 27 at the most. And that's a pretty awful number.

I really have no idea how that index thing work, but I still have to think that it did about what they would have expected and it did sell more than Runaways, Blade, Atom, Black Panther, Criminal, and Fables. I still say it's too early to dig Ant-Man a grave. An talking about it like it's already cancelled will only hurt it worse.

NickT
11-18-2006, 03:00 PM
See, it's not 40,000 copies. That's the index number. If it was that, I'd be satisfied right now. But like I said in my other post, going by those numbers, punisher max, which normally sells 30k a month, is 20k higher than ant-man. That means ant-man must've sold around 25k, 27 at the most. And that's a pretty awful number.
Not entirely right. The month before's estimates in bold:


60 65 48.67 BIRDS O/PREY #99 $2.99 DC 32k
61 66 47.45 THUNDERBOLTS #107 $2.99 MAR 31k
62 68 47.25 IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #1 $2.99 MAR
63 69 46.91 MARTIAN MANHUNTER #3 (Of :cool: $2.99 DC 32k
64 70 46.67 CONAN #33 (MR) $2.99 DAR 29k


Looking at that, I'd guess an estimate of around 30k. And since it's an estimate, it will probably be a bit higher.

The problem is, as has been said before, the drop for #2 is significant. 20-40% drops are possible. Blade was at roughly an estimated 35k, now it's at....27k? If Ant Man does similar, it'll be just about the lowest selling non-cancelled non-MA ongoing.

bartleby
11-18-2006, 03:01 PM
An talking about it like it's already cancelled will only hurt it worse.

Well, let's pretend like it's the fourth best selling book of October, and maybe sales well magically shoot up for subsequent issues. And then I'm going to pretend that I have a unicorn, and I'll fly to Mars.


Edit: My unicorn also has wings. And I can breathe in space.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 03:01 PM
From a business standpoint, I can't make much sense of Marvel's decision to even launch an Ant-man ongoing series without an A-list creative team. And I don't see a lot of upside in keeping the book around trying to find an audience. Maybe you pick up some new readers with the trade, but I can see it being enough to make this book a viable product.

What about Runaways and Young Avengers? Neither books started out with what would have been thought of as A-List creative teams at their launch. Marvel stuck with them and they have been critically and financially rewarded for it.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 03:04 PM
Well, let's pretend like it's the fourth best selling book of October, and maybe sales well magically shoot up for subsequent issues. And then I'm going to pretend that I have a unicorn, and I'll fly to Mars.

Enjoy the flight.

bartleby
11-18-2006, 03:06 PM
What about Runaways and Young Avengers? Neither books started out with what would have been thought of as A-List creative teams at their launch. Marvel stuck with them and they have been critically and financially rewarded for it.

That's two books that are the exception (and I would argue that both are much better suited for breakout success than ANT-MAN is). But how many other books have they stuck it out with only to have sales continue to drop?

NickT
11-18-2006, 03:07 PM
What about Runaways and Young Avengers? Neither books started out with what would have been thought of as A-List creative teams at their launch. Marvel stuck with them and they have been critically and financially rewarded for it.
The YA estimates:

Feb 05 Young Avengers #1 - 112,803
Mar 05 Young Avengers #2 - 79,952 (-29.1%)
Apr 05 Young Avengers #3 - 75,015 ( -6.2%)
May 05 Young Avengers #4 - 69,925 ( -6.8%)
Jun 05 Young Avengers #5 - 69,956 ( +0.0%)
Jul 05 n/a
Aug 05 Young Avengers #6 - 68,733 ( -1.7%)
Sep 05 Young Avengers #7 - 67,036 ( -2.5%)
Oct 05 Young Avengers #8 - 63,873 ( -4.7%)
Nov 05 Young Avengers #9 - 63,213 ( -1.0%)
Dec 05 n/a
Jan 06 n/a
Feb 06 Young Avengers #10 - 56,347 (-10.9%)
Mar 06 n/a
Apr 06 Young Avengers #11 - 56,613 ( +0.5%)
May 06 n/a
Jun 06 Young Avengers #12 - 56,246 ( -0.6%)



It started to find it's level at an estimated 50-60k, half of what it first sold.

Jerome Gibbons
11-18-2006, 03:10 PM
From a business standpoint, I can't make much sense of Marvel's decision to even launch an Ant-man ongoing series without an A-list creative team.
Is what I don't understand. The market might be doing a little better now than it has in the past, but it's still pretty fragile. Putting an A-list writer or artist (or both) on any given ongoing starring a B-lister you feel like launching seems like a no brainer to me. Let him stay there for 6-12 issues, until the book finds its audience, and then let it go from there.

I think that, for instance, a Bendis-helmed Hawkeye book launching right after House of M would've done pretty good. Bendis could've stayed for a year or two and then hand it to someone else.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 03:12 PM
That's two books that are the exception (and I would argue that both are much better suited for breakout success than ANT-MAN is). But how many other books have they stuck it out with only to have sales continue to drop?

Isn't it a shame that we can't just predict those exceptions. Would I feel more secure about it's prospects of surving if it had debuted in the top 20? Sure. But I'm not as pessimistic as to think it's going to die after it's 1months numbers. An it's frustrating hearing people say they are going to give up on it, not because they have a problem with the quality but because they hear or think it might be cancelled. "Might" not even a definiite. That's all I'm trying to get across.

bartleby
11-18-2006, 03:13 PM
Is what I don't understand. The market might be doing a little better now than it has in the past, but it's still pretty fragile. Putting an A-list writer or artist (or both) on any given ongoing starring a B-lister you feel like launching seems like a no brainer to me. Let him stay there for 6-12 issues, until the book finds its audience, and then let it go from there.

I think that, for instance, a Bendis-helmed Hawkeye book launching right after House of M would've done pretty good. Bendis could've stayed for a year or two and then hand it to someone else.

Hell, why not at the very least stick a Bryan Hitch/Steve McNiven/John Cassaday alternate cover on an issue or two?

NickT
11-18-2006, 03:13 PM
Of course, the most important figure is #3. Until then, sales could be absolutely anywhere because retailers are dealing with an uncertain thing, comic ordering. By #3, they should have an idea.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 03:15 PM
The YA estimates:




It started to find it's level at an estimated 50-60k, half of what it first sold.

Interesting. I wonder how much of that was due to delays. The upside is that Marvel now has several new viable properties and most likely a season 2 will do pretty well.

bartleby
11-18-2006, 03:19 PM
Isn't it a shame that we can't just predict those exceptions.


Yeah, but why should we expect Marvel to give every struggling series featuring C-list characters and B-list creative teams 12+ issues to prove themselves? Only about one out of twenty is going to go on to become successful and even then probably only moderately so.

bartleby
11-18-2006, 03:23 PM
Interesting. I wonder how much of that was due to delays. The upside is that Marvel now has several new viable properties and most likely a season 2 will do pretty well.

The bulk of the drop was from issue #1 to #2, which is to be expected as retailers order excessively not knowing how demand will be. There was a 10% drop coinciding with the two-month delay between issues #9 and #10.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 03:25 PM
Yeah, but why should we expect Marvel to give every struggling series featuring C-list characters and B-list creative teams 12+ issues to prove themselves? Only about one out of twenty is going to go on to become successful and even then probably only moderately so.

Because they approved the pitch/series as ongoing in the first place. Otherwise they should have made it a mini.

Vonn Hennigar
11-18-2006, 03:27 PM
Because they approved the pitch/series as ongoing in the first place. Otherwise they should have made it a mini.

I agree with this...sort of.

Basically i feel that if Marvel approves a New Ongoing then they should at least support yhe book till issue # 25. Period.

If they feel the book will probably end up being a sales bust. Then give them a 6 issue or hell 12 issue Mini-Series.

bartleby
11-18-2006, 03:29 PM
Because they approved the pitch/series as ongoing in the first place. Otherwise they should have made it a mini.

This sounds awfully similar to the current situation regarding the US military in Iraq.

NickT
11-18-2006, 03:31 PM
I agree with this...sort of.

Basically i feel that if Marvel approves a New Ongoing then they should at least support yhe book till issue # 25. Period.

If they feel the book will probably end up being a sales bust. Then give them a 6 issue or hell 12 issue Mini-Series.
Why would they green light anything that is going to be a sales bust?

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 03:33 PM
This sounds awfully similar to the current situation regarding the US military in Iraq.

Really? Please detail how our conversation about the sales figures of Ant-Man is similar to the US military in Iraq. This should be interesting.

Vonn Hennigar
11-18-2006, 03:35 PM
Why would they green light anything that is going to be a sales bust?

They wouldn't, but they know well enough that some books and characters are going to be a tough sell.

Sure you get a surprise now and again but for the most part you know some books have maybe a 10% chance of ever hitting issue # 50.

bartleby
11-18-2006, 03:40 PM
Really? Please detail how our conversation about the sales figures of Ant-Man is similar to the US miliary in Iraq. This should be interesting.


Marvel launches a new series that doesn't have a good shot a big a major success. When the sales figures show the decision to be a poor one, Marvel should keep publishing the book in misguided hopes that somehow things will turn around.



You may as well have dropped the phrase "stay the course."

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 03:46 PM
Marvel launches a new series that doesn't have a good shot a big a major success. When the sales figures show the decision to be a poor one, Marvel should keep publishing the book in misguided hopes that somehow things will turn around.



You may as well have dropped the phrase "stay the course."

So should Marvel cancel the book now before figures for number 2 come out and issue 3 hits or would that be cut and run?

bartleby
11-18-2006, 03:49 PM
So should Marvel cancel the book now before figures for number 2 come out and issue 3 hits or would that be cut and run?

Chances are Marvel has a pretty good idea what the sales figures for those two issues are. If the book is still trending downward by issue #4, I don't see there being a lot of justification for continuing the book beyond issue #6.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 03:56 PM
Chances are Marvel has a pretty good idea what the sales figures for those two issues are. If the book is still trending downward by issue #4, I don't see there being a lot of justification for continuing the book beyond issue #6.

In other words, wait and see what's happening after 4 or 5 issues instead of saying it's cancelled after one issue.

A.Huerta
11-18-2006, 03:58 PM
In other words, wait and see what's happening after 4 or 5 issues instead of saying it's cancelled after one issue.

2 have come out.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 04:00 PM
2 have come out.

we only have figures on one.

A.Huerta
11-18-2006, 04:02 PM
If it were to be cancelled, 2/3 issues have come out. Just saying.

NickT
11-18-2006, 04:02 PM
On another subject, I'm suprised how Blade is doing. The writer of Wolverine and a famous artist on Blade? You'd think it'd at least hold up a LITTLE.

John Drake
11-18-2006, 04:22 PM
Don't blame me I bought the first issue! But decided to trade wait because of money issues.

bartleby
11-18-2006, 04:30 PM
we only have figures on one.

yeah, but considering that Marvel needs to know how many copies to print and send to retailers, they kinda have to know how much the November and December issues are going to sell.

bartleby
11-18-2006, 04:33 PM
On another subject, I'm suprised how Blade is doing. The writer of Wolverine and a famous artist on Blade? You'd think it'd at least hold up a LITTLE.


Being the writer of WOLVERINE doesn't really mean a whole lot, especially when it's basically the only comic work you've done. And Chaykin's famous, but not really the kinda famous that sells books.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 04:35 PM
yeah, but considering that Marvel needs to know how many copies to print and send to retailers, they kinda have to know how much the November and December issues are going to sell.


I'm sure Marvel does know. We don't.

changingshades
11-18-2006, 04:36 PM
there's a blade book being published?

bartleby
11-18-2006, 04:37 PM
I'm sure Marvel does know. We don't.

That works out rather well seeing as how Marvel would be the one making the decision whether or not to end the book.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 04:39 PM
That works out rather well seeing as how Marvel would be the one making the decision whether or not to end the book.

An seeing as how they have at least issue #5 solicited, they must know it's doing well enough to not be cancelled at this point.

Bill Nolan
11-18-2006, 04:43 PM
An seeing as how they have at least issue #5 solicited, they must know it's doing well enough to not be cancelled at this point.

Well, it's doing a bit better than Kirkman's Jubilee. Marvel retroactively declared that one a miniseries with the solicitation for #5, so it's at least one issue up on that!

- B

bartleby
11-18-2006, 04:46 PM
An seeing as how they have at least issue #5 solicited, they must know it's doing well enough to not be cancelled at this point.


Regardless of sales, Marvel will likely let the series run six issues to put it into a trade.

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 04:55 PM
Regardless of sales, Marvel will likely let the series run six issues to put it into a trade.

An if it does well in trade, anythings possible. I, for one, don't see it being in imminent danger of being cancelled at this point. Now watch a cancellation notice come out on Monday. :)

Lord Jermaine Retail
11-18-2006, 04:59 PM
This won't even make it past issue 12. Blade is doing even worse! :surrend:

Antman #1 and #2 sold out at my shop. 35 copies of #1 with a re-order of 10 and a straight 35 on #2. I wasn't expecting that to go that way, but it has. I don't know if #1 is still available to re-order at this point so that could be a problem...

John Drake
11-18-2006, 05:04 PM
Antman #1 and #2 sold out at my shop. 35 copies of #1 with a re-order of 10 and a straight 35 on #2. I wasn't expecting that to go that way, but it has. I don't know if #1 is still available to re-order at this point so that could be a problem...

And I seem to remember an announcement about Ant-Man #1 selling out at Diamond, or am I crazy?

Criden
11-18-2006, 05:11 PM
My LCS guy told me he couldn't order more copies of Ant-Man #2.

John Drake
11-18-2006, 05:24 PM
My LCS guy told me he couldn't order more copies of Ant-Man #2.

It's those damn cockroaches and their conspiracy to end all ant-related titles!

Jew Mafia
11-18-2006, 05:26 PM
It's those damn cockroaches and their conspiracy to end all ant-related titles!

Exterminators vs. Ant-Man?

John Drake
11-18-2006, 05:27 PM
Exterminators vs. Ant-Man?

Oh, it's ON!

Lord Jermaine Retail
11-18-2006, 07:07 PM
My LCS guy told me he couldn't order more copies of Ant-Man #2.

I put in for some more last week and according to my invoice am getting some next week. Maybe I got the last of them. Or Diamond's inventory is off and they don't actually have any. I'll let you know if any actually show so your shop can get some back in.

YouStayClassy
11-18-2006, 09:58 PM
Exterminators vs. Ant-Man?

I'm now depressed because I know that'll never happen.... :cry:

Marcdachamp
11-18-2006, 10:10 PM
Tres sucky. I've really enjoyed Ant-Man thus far.

YouStayClassy
11-18-2006, 10:15 PM
Tres sucky. I've really enjoyed Ant-Man thus far.

I like the fact they cram so much into one issue. #1 took me longer than 15 minutes to read.... that is BEYOND rare in this day and age.

Vonn Hennigar
11-18-2006, 10:15 PM
It' NOT a great debut by any means and i agree it'll probably end with issue # 12.

But if the books sales stabalize and Ant-Man stays in that # 60-75 spot on the charts it'll be fine.

It's not impossible.

morlock with a day pass
11-19-2006, 01:42 AM
They should've gone with the Millar/Corben pitch.

any details on this besides the creators involved?

Kefky
11-19-2006, 05:01 AM
any details on this besides the creators involved?

Nope, sorry. Millar just mentioned that he had a pitch that was rejected because the one for the current series had already been approved. I was speaking from a monetary point of view, anyway. They should use big-name creators if they want the character to sell.

Mo_Soar
11-19-2006, 11:13 AM
In September, an index in the high 40s meant around 45,000 actual copies sold. If that's what Irredeemable Ant-Man actually sold, it's not doing too badly, for a non-A-list title. Granted the second issue is usually a steep fall-off, but if it can stay well into the 30,000 copy range, it'll do just fine. It's one of many sort of "niche" Marvel titles that sell to people (like me) who like their superheroes quirky and interesting a could give a rat's *** about the top-selling characters.

Billie
11-19-2006, 11:49 AM
Marvel was stupid not to put Deodato on Blade.

ClintP
11-19-2006, 12:41 PM
Marvel was stupid not to put Deodato on Blade.

That would have been good. I guess he was off gearing up for Thunderbolts. I think the art is lacking in Blade, but I look pass it.

King of Mars
11-19-2006, 12:49 PM
I don't like the artist on Blade, they need someone dark and gritty. And I love Kirkman but Ant-Man? Just not a cool concept, IMO.Umm...that's kinda the point. :)

Gail Simone
11-19-2006, 10:42 PM
It's a fun book, I like it and hope it does well.

Remember, Robert is different from most of the industry in that some of his books continue to slowly climb in sales issue after issue, so that's promising.

Gail

BenitoCereno
11-19-2006, 10:45 PM
It's a fun book, I like it and hope it does well.

Remember, Robert is different from most of the industry in that some of his books continue to slowly climb in sales issue after issue, so that's promising.

Gail

You know, when I saw you had posted in this thread, this is not at all what I expected you to say.

andeparks
11-19-2006, 11:24 PM
Wow... nothing like taking a break and seeing a bunch of folks bemoaning how my book is about to be canceled.

First, I think you're mistaken about what #1 sold. It sold more than 30k.

Second, Gail is right... Robert's books have the potential to grow an audience.

Third, it's silly and irresponsible to use sales figures in this context. Simon is right... creating an impression that the book is in danger has the potential to do a lot more harm than good. You don't know what impact the short in the high-selling Civil War Special will have. You don't know how under-ordered the first issue was. You certainly don't know what subsequent issues have sold.

Maybe I'm being unrealistic about net fandom, but how about simply pointing out that those who have any interest in the book but haven't checked it out yet should do so, because it's good and deserves an audience? Not as sexy as speculating it won't be around long, I suppose, but a hell of a lot more responsible.

For the record, we are working hard on Ant-Man, and it's a book we're proud of. Marvel has been nothing but supportive, and everyone is hopeful the book's readership will grow. Those are the un-sexy facts.

Anj

STARSANDBRAINS
11-19-2006, 11:33 PM
If only Kirkman had called it Zombie Ant-Man* *no zombies actually appear in the book then I have a feeling it would be selling like 1 million copies.

Dennis K
11-20-2006, 05:21 AM
If only Kirkman had called it Zombie Ant-Man* *no zombies actually appear in the book then I have a feeling it would be selling like 1 million copies.

I don't get the whole zombie thing. Just thought I would throw that out there.

Jef UK
11-20-2006, 06:31 AM
I understand it's not the kinda book you're into, and that's cool, really, but totally think you'd be missing out if you didn't give it at least a look.


No, it's not cool, really. Nextwave is all comics better.

dafixer
11-20-2006, 07:19 AM
I like Ant-Man, and I like the fact that he's unlikable. Adds something to the character.

Blade is missing something. They started out putting him in the Civil War in an interesting way, then they went to the Dr. Doom story, then that weird thing in issue #3. Blade should hook me, but it doesn't.

They could always give him a red girlfriend from another planet. Didn't help John Stewart, but it would surprise a lot of people.

Gail Simone
11-20-2006, 08:09 AM
You know, when I saw you had posted in this thread, this is not at all what I expected you to say.

Not totally sure I understand, but I meant only good things. I think the world of Robert and his work and the art team is top-notch. It's just a great book.

If it sounded otherwise or something, forgive me, I'm sleepy.

Gail

Cuckoo
11-20-2006, 08:19 AM
They'd better not cancel this. Hester's art and Kirkman's writing are both amazing in this book.

Sy-Klone
11-20-2006, 08:22 AM
The art in Ant-Man is outstanding. I was really impressed by it, which is no surprise, since we're talking about Hester and Parks.

I read the first two issues, and the writing was okay. I wasn't as blown away by it as some. I thought it was good, but not great. It's good enough that I'll get the third issue.

I hope it survives, though. It's a unique take on an established character, and could become a fantastic book for me if given time to grow and develop.

BenitoCereno
11-20-2006, 08:49 AM
Not totally sure I understand, but I meant only good things. I think the world of Robert and his work and the art team is top-notch. It's just a great book.

If it sounded otherwise or something, forgive me, I'm sleepy.

Gail

No, you sounded very positive and genuine. Given your past online interactions with Robert, that's why I was surprised.

I was expecting something more sarcastic and...Dada.

Humphrey_Lee
11-20-2006, 12:24 PM
The art in Ant-Man is outstanding. I was really impressed by it, which is no surprise, since we're talking about Hester and Parks.

I read the first two issues, and the writing was okay. I wasn't as blown away by it as some. I thought it was good, but not great. It's good enough that I'll get the third issue.

I hope it survives, though. It's a unique take on an established character, and could become a fantastic book for me if given time to grow and develop.

And that sums up my feelings completely right there.

Honestly, I say just a slap a big "X" somewhere on the title. That should increase sales by a good 10K or so. oooo... or maybe a Civil War banner. I'm not sure how he'd be involved at all, maybe we could find out he banged Maria Hill at some point, but I'm sure Kirkman could make it work.