PDA

View Full Version : Super Heroes...relevant?



joshdahl
11-08-2006, 06:15 AM
I have been looking around a little for good place on the web to discuss the ins-and-outs of creating super hero comics. Sort of like "The Engine"...and I couldn't really find something dedicated to such a purpose...so, I figured I would give it a shot here....

So, I'll start with a soft-ball...Are super-heroes relevant? Why? Are they NOT relevant? Why?

And, most importantly, what does it take to grab onto that slippery relevance?

Josh Dahl

writer: Rapid City (http://www.monolithllc.com)

Race
11-08-2006, 06:16 AM
Powers are incidental. It's about the choices people with powers make.

xyzzy
11-08-2006, 06:17 AM
Good stories are always relevant.

Patton
11-08-2006, 06:21 AM
Superheroes are basically a genre used to tell a story. Just a language really. So if the story itself is interesting, entertaining, etc...then the answer is yes.

joshdahl
11-08-2006, 06:23 AM
Powers are incidental. It's about the choices people with powers make.

Ok, but why take readers on that ride?
I mean, why go through the trouble of asking readers to suspend theior disbelief and accept such a silly premise if the powers are incidental?
Why not do away with them, and create a story that is easier to swallow...and also about decisions?

(just for the sake of arguement)

Josh Dahl

Race
11-08-2006, 06:25 AM
Ok, but why take readers on that ride?
I mean, why go through the trouble of asking readers to suspend theior disbelief and accept such a silly premise if the powers are incidental?
Why not do away with them, and create a story that is easier to swallow...and also about decisions?

(just for the sake of arguement)

Josh DahlI live everyday life - I'm not interetested in paying to read about it or watch it. I want to be taken away from the ordinary, but in a way I can still relate to.

It's not everyone's cup of tea, though.

dave g
11-08-2006, 06:25 AM
If your'e going to tell a story why not tell it in the most exciting way possible?

*I'll probably elaborate on this later...I gotta go make breakfast

modungo
11-08-2006, 07:19 AM
I enjoy good stories about supermen in tights punching each other. I could give a flying squirrels fuck about relevant. Superheros are fun. I'll take fun over relevant anyday.

A.Huerta
11-08-2006, 07:22 AM
Yes they are. Almost every video game/cartoon character can be considerded a super-hero. They just dont wear masks or have secret identities.

joshdahl
11-08-2006, 07:57 PM
Ok, ok, so people love iconic and dynamic....

BUT iconic is really close to boring...and super heroes can descend into cliche REALLY easily....

So, how do we keep them fresh and relevant?

And don't just say "tell good stories". Obviously, tell good stories. But what else? Or, what do we need to avoid?

Josh Dahl

writer: Rapid City (http://www.monolithllc.com)

stevapalooza
11-08-2006, 09:08 PM
Ok, ok, so people love iconic and dynamic....

BUT iconic is really close to boring...and super heroes can descend into cliche REALLY easily....

So, how do we keep them fresh and relevant?

And don't just say "tell good stories". Obviously, tell good stories. But what else? Or, what do we need to avoid?

Josh Dahl

writer: Rapid City (http://www.monolithllc.com)

I think one way to keep super heroes fresh is to take them out of their usual surroundings and try new things with them. Where is it written that every superhero has to be a modern city-dwelling crime fighter in tights? A superhero can be anyone you want and can live in any time, any country, any world. Why limit yourself to the same city rooftops and alleyways we've already seen a million times?

Jerome Gibbons
11-08-2006, 09:10 PM
I could give a flying squirrels fuck about relevant. Superheros are fun.
Yes.

Ryan Elliott
11-08-2006, 09:36 PM
I think one way to keep super heroes fresh is to take them out of their usual surroundings and try new things with them. Where is it written that every superhero has to be a modern city-dwelling crime fighter in tights? A superhero can be anyone you want and can live in any time, any country, any world. Why limit yourself to the same city rooftops and alleyways we've already seen a million times?



$$$

Scott Dubin
11-08-2006, 09:49 PM
Yes they are. Almost every video game/cartoon character can be considerded a super-hero. They just dont wear masks or have secret identities.

You're defining Superheros out of existence. That's not the definition of superhero.

I seriously doubt the original poster meant "Are action heroes relevant?" or "Are adventure heroes relevant?"

I think superheroes barely have any relevance beyond the long established franchises. You can do a successful new superhero book, but the odds are stacked against you, and if you aren't doing something startlingly difference from what else is on the market, I wouldn't bother trying.

joshdahl
11-09-2006, 02:32 AM
You're defining Superheros out of existence. That's not the definition of superhero.

I seriously doubt the original poster meant "Are action heroes relevant?" or "Are adventure heroes relevant?"

I think superheroes barely have any relevance beyond the long established franchises. You can do a successful new superhero book, but the odds are stacked against you, and if you aren't doing something startlingly difference from what else is on the market, I wouldn't bother trying.

I think that super heroes are relevamt far beyond existing, recognizable trademarks.
Afterall, those trademarks would be worth nothing if there were not real, deep, resonance to the people reading and watching and buying them.
I think that in a lot of cases, the super hero has become a blank canvas.
All of the cliches and conventions are already established....so we as creators and readers can skip right past that part.
For example, origins and "with great power..." statements are all pretty well travelled ground.
If you waste a lot o time on those things, you will likely bore your audience. On the other hand, if you take those as a given, and then show how your characters do something dierent from there.

Josh Dahl

writer: Rapid City (http://www.monolithllc.com)

Scott Dubin
11-09-2006, 06:11 AM
I think that super heroes are relevamt far beyond existing, recognizable trademarks.


I wonder. If you're releasing a new superhero comic on the market today, you're going to compete with fifty mediocre Civil War tie in books, plus fifty Infinite Crisis of the week books. It's certainly an uphill struggle. Most comic readers aren't particularly interested in quality, either, they just want to know what Superman is up to this week.

Characters like Powerpuff Girls and The Incredibles manage to circumvent the comic book market, and can therefore compete. I don't see them selling many comics though, but I guess the Powerpuff Girl comic gets by, unless DC is eating the loss or something.



Afterall, those trademarks would be worth nothing if there were not real, deep, resonance to the people reading and watching and buying them.


Spider-man isn't necessarily relavent because he's a superhero though. People may like him because it's a coming of age story filled with adventure and romance, or because he's a nerd who becomes one of the cool kids. You can find those things outside of Superheros.





I think that in a lot of cases, the super hero has become a blank canvas.
All of the cliches and conventions are already established....so we as creators and readers can skip right past that part.



I don't see why that's an advantage. People are also familiar with how a mystery story works, or a doctor story, or a space opera, or a romance. It's not so much that creators can skip past those cliches, its that they need to, because the audience will lose patience with them very quickly. (Because if they want cliches, they'll just read more Batman, either the current stuff or the classics that invented the cliches to begin with, or retellings of the classic in "Ultimate" or animated form)