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Doug
11-07-2006, 10:02 AM
The Golden Gloves have already been given out (however there is a lot of people who don't think GGs mean anything, unless of course their home town hero wins it).


Make your predictions here.

Here is a list of the major awards coming and when they will be announced.
(dates from: http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/awards/y2006/index.jsp)

Manager of the Year:
AL Nov. 15 (My guess, Jim Leyland, he did great things with Detroit)
NL Nov. 15 (My guess, Joe Girardi, he kept the youngest team with one of the lowest payrolls competitive through Sept.)

Rookie of the Year:
AL Nov. 13 (My guess, Kenji Johjima, the young AL pitchers were too plagued with arm injuries.)
NL Nov. 13 (My guess, Dan Uggla, a great young player on a very young team.)

Cy Young:
AL Nov. 16 (My guess, Johan Santana, really no reason why he shouldn't get it.)
NL Nov. 14 (I have no guess. Trevor Hoffman is the favorite, but the times I've seen him pitch he's blown both save opportunities.)

MVP:
AL Nov. 21 (My guess, Derek Jeter, he's the home town hero who had a great year.)
NL Nov. 20 (My guess, Ryan Howard, however Pujols is a very close second.)

And for those interested here are the guys who one the Gold Gloves:
AL
C: Ivan Rodriguez, DET
1B: Mark Teixeira, TEX
2B: Mark Grudzielanek, KC
3B: Eric Chavez, OAK
SS: Derek Jeter, NYY
OF: Torii Hunter, MIN
OF: Ichiro Suzuki, SEA
OF: Vernon Wells, TOR
P: Kenny Rogers, DET

NL
C: Brad Ausmus, HOU
1B: Albert Pujols, STL
2B: Orlando Hudson, ARI
3B: Scott Rolen, STL
SS: Omar Vizquel, SF
OF: Carlos Beltran, NYM
OF: Mike Cameron, SD
OF: Andruw Jones, ATL
P: Greg Maddux, LAD

Taxman
11-07-2006, 10:10 AM
Hoffman should have won the Cy Young several years ago, but one guy omitted him completely from the ballot and Tommy Glavin got the prize. The only reliever to win recently is Gagne and that was on the strength of that ridiculous consecutive save streak. Having guys as high profile as Joe Morgan saying publicly that relievers should not be considered for the award doesn't help their case either. I hope Hoffman gets it this time, but I am guessing he gets edged out/screwed again.

PeterSparker
11-07-2006, 10:12 AM
This is easy for me becuase I pretty much agree with all your choices :) So ditto


and it's really only because Ryan Howard was so friggin unbelievable in the second half, along with the time that Albert missed, that I would give it him. (plus Pujols is gonna win like 4 or 5 more anyway)

Doug
11-07-2006, 10:47 AM
Hoffman should have won the Cy Young several years ago, but one guy omitted him completely from the ballot and Tommy Glavin got the prize. The only reliever to win recently is Gagne and that was on the strength of that ridiculous consecutive save streak. Having guys as high profile as Joe Morgan saying publicly that relievers should not be considered for the award doesn't help their case either. I hope Hoffman gets it this time, but I am guessing he gets edged out/screwed again.

I thought Mariano Rivera should have won the Cy Young last year for the AL.

I'm sure Hoffman is a great pitcher, but in my very limited exposure to him he's blown both save opportunities. So by not seeing him pitch more I can't say one way or another if he deserves the Cy Young.

Brad N.
11-07-2006, 10:56 AM
Santana gets the Cy Young easily. No one else you could even make a case for. I'm still picking Justin Morneau for MVP, but it will probably be Jeter. Ortiz lost out when the BoSox didn't make the post season IMO. Pujols gets the NL MVP. The rest of those picks look solid to me. Of course my homtown boy Joe Mauer already won the batting title so...

PeterSparker
11-07-2006, 11:07 AM
Santana gets the Cy Young easily. No one else you could even make a case for.

Well, I without question think it should (and will) be Santana. But you could make a case for Chien Ming-Wang.

Bill!
11-07-2006, 11:13 AM
Well, I without question think it should (and will) be Santana. But you could make a case for Chien Ming-Wang.

I don't know how you could. Besides wins, he's a pretty weak pitcher. Papelbon or Verlander should get it before Wang.

Brad N.
11-07-2006, 11:19 AM
Well, I without question think it should (and will) be Santana. But you could make a case for Chien Ming-Wang.

Not really though. Both had the same number of wins (19) and Santana had more strikeouts and a better ERA. It's not even close.

Doug
11-07-2006, 11:51 AM
Not really though. Both had the same number of wins (19) and Santana had more strikeouts and a better ERA. It's not even close.

Strikeouts don't necessarily make him a great pitcher (please note I'm not saying he isn't great, I'm just saying strikeouts alone mean nothing).

Wang is not a strikeout pitcher. He was among the league leaders in groundouts (if not the leage leader), and also among the leaders in least amount of pitches per inning. He's not a strikeout pitcher but he got the job done. Plus Wang has more saves this season then Santana. ;)


I don't know how you could. Besides wins, he's a pretty weak pitcher. Papelbon or Verlander should get it before Wang.
Verlander had the same ERA, 2 less Wins, and 3 more losses. I'd definately say Wang before Verlander. Papelbon had a great ERA, but didn't convert 6 save opportunities. In the begining of the season he was unstopable, but towards the end his arm started to give out. If he had kept up all year I'd choose him AL ROY.

Bill!
11-07-2006, 12:12 PM
Strikeouts do very much indicate how dominating you are over batters. The less they are able to put the wood on the ball, no matter who pathetic they manage to connect (groundballs), the better you are as a pitcher. That's how I and I assume most people consider strikeouts. K's, ERA, and WHIP are the best indication of how good you are. They should get rid of wins altogether for Cy Young voting.

Taxman
11-07-2006, 12:16 PM
I thought Mariano Rivera should have won the Cy Young last year for the AL.

I'm sure Hoffman is a great pitcher, but in my very limited exposure to him he's blown both save opportunities. So by not seeing him pitch more I can't say one way or another if he deserves the Cy Young.One of the saves he blew, he gave up two home runs on his first two pitches. :lol:

Suddenly, there is not really anyone close to 20 wins. Would I be alone in thinking that the drug testing may figure into this?

PeterSparker
11-07-2006, 02:47 PM
I don't know how you could. Besides wins, he's a pretty weak pitcher. Papelbon or Verlander should get it before Wang.


Wang is anything but "weak", once again I am duly unimpressed with your analysis. Ask the guys who play behind him if they think he's a big time pitcher. And as I said, I wasn't making a case that Wang was better, he wasn't, but he had a year worthy of getting some consideration and votes for second place. Should go without question for those that understand the game. Like how much his regular stints of 8-plus innings and low pitch counts did for his team over the course of a season and penant race.

Also, strikeouts shouldn't be of the highest consideration. Up there yeah, but not the primary stat. Certainly not before ERA anyway. You can have a high strikeout total and still get shelled as a pitcher. (Nolan Ryan for all his K's is not even close to being the best "pitcher" ever) Wins should absolutely factor in. Just so guys like you don't overlook what the Glavine's, Maddux's, Pettite's and Wang's of the league do.

Bill!
11-07-2006, 02:59 PM
Wang is anything but "weak", once again I am duly unimpressed with your analysis. Ask the guys who play behind him if they think he's a big time pitcher. And as I said, I wasn't making a case that Wang was better, he wasn't, but he had a year worthy of getting some consideration and votes for second place. Should go without question for those that understand the game. Like how much his regular stints of 8-plus innings and low pitch counts did for his team over the course of a season and penant race.

Also, strikeouts shouldn't be of the highest consideration. Up there yeah, but not the primary stat. Certainly not before ERA anyway. You can have a high strikeout total and still get shelled as a pitcher. (Nolan Ryan for all his K's is not even close to being the best "pitcher" ever) Wins should absolutely factor in. Just so guys like you don't overlook what the Glavine's, Maddux's, Pettite's and Wang's of the league do.

Factoring in wins is the reason Clemens didn't win Cy Young even though he was obviously the best NL pitcher last year.

PeterSparker
11-07-2006, 03:15 PM
Factoring in wins is the reason Clemens didn't win Cy Young even though he was obviously the best NL pitcher last year.

I totally agree with you there. That's an example of wins counting for too much though. They shouldn't be the primary stat either. I just don't think they should be ruled out entirely, but it does suck when the better pitcher loses because of a few less W's.

Bill!
11-07-2006, 03:17 PM
I totally agree with you there. That's an example of wins counting for too much though. They shouldn't be the primary stat either. I just don't think they should be ruled out entirely, but it does suck when the better pitcher loses because of a few less W's.

Yeah. Colon won last year too because of that, over Santana who was clearly the best pitcher. It's getting to be sort of a sham. I don't like it.

Buk Was Right
11-07-2006, 03:49 PM
Suddenly, there is not really anyone close to 20 wins. Would I be alone in thinking that the drug testing may figure into this?

of course not... only sluggers use 'roids.

Taxman
11-07-2006, 05:23 PM
of course not... only sluggers use 'roids.On this particular stat, I was thinking more of the greenies than roids.

Taxman
11-14-2006, 03:00 PM
Hoffman should have won the Cy Young several years ago, but one guy omitted him completely from the ballot and Tommy Glavin got the prize. The only reliever to win recently is Gagne and that was on the strength of that ridiculous consecutive save streak. Having guys as high profile as Joe Morgan saying publicly that relievers should not be considered for the award doesn't help their case either. I hope Hoffman gets it this time, but I am guessing he gets edged out/screwed again.For once in my life, I was right about something :surrend:

PeterSparker
11-14-2006, 04:40 PM
For once in my life, I was right about something :surrend:

Yeah Hoffman gets edged out/screwed again, good call. The upside though is, I'll be able to tell my grandkids one day, I was actually alive and saw Brandon Webb go 16-8 with a 3.10 ERA!!!!!!! :roll:

Taxman
11-14-2006, 05:57 PM
Yeah Hoffman gets edged out/screwed again, good call. The upside though is, I'll be able to tell my grandkids one day, I was actually alive and saw Brandon Webb go 16-8 with a 3.10 ERA!!!!!!! :roll:Hopefully some day this Cy Young can be displayed along side Gwyneth Paltrow's Oscar.

Brad N.
11-14-2006, 06:15 PM
Hopefully some day this Cy Young can be displayed along side Gwyneth Paltrow's Oscar.

Good, but I woulda said more like Marissa Tomei. :grope:

HCMarvel
11-14-2006, 06:19 PM
Who would you have given it to instead of Paltrow that year?


And sorry guys, Webb probably was the best pitcher in the NL this year. Hoffman had no right to be number 2 in the voting. Oswalt was next best than carpenter. I think the voting has been correct so far in all 3 so far.

PeterSparker
11-14-2006, 06:46 PM
Who would you have given it to instead of Paltrow that year?


And sorry guys, Webb probably was the best pitcher in the NL this year. Hoffman had no right to be number 2 in the voting. Oswalt was next best than carpenter. I think the voting has been correct so far in all 3 so far.

He may very well have deserved it, but that's still not saying much is my point.

Not wrong, just not exactly a Cy Young for the ages.

Doug
11-15-2006, 11:11 AM
Well, I was right about Girardi and Leyland.

That's about it so far.

Although anyone who didn't pick Santana for AL Cy Young is wacky.

Bill!
11-15-2006, 11:14 AM
Well, I was right about Girardi and Leyland.

That's about it so far.

Although anyone who didn't pick Santana for AL Cy Young is wacky.

Honestly, if any voter didn't select Santana for #1, that person should never be allowed to vote again. The contest wasn't even close this year in the AL.

Brad N.
11-15-2006, 12:21 PM
Honestly, if any voter didn't select Santana for #1, that person should never be allowed to vote again. The contest wasn't even close this year in the AL.

agreed. There is no argument. It should be unanimous. Let's see...Most wins in the AL? Check. Lowest ERA? Check. Most Strikeouts? Check. Hasn't lost a game at home since August 2005 and helped a great deal in getting the club into the playoffs. No-brainer.

DAVE
11-15-2006, 12:23 PM
Just so everyone knows, there's been a ton of updates today in my Hot Stove coverage thread ...pimp pimp

Bill!
11-15-2006, 12:37 PM
agreed. There is no argument. It should be unanimous. Let's see...Most wins in the AL? Check. Lowest ERA? Check. Most Strikeouts? Check. Hasn't lost a game at home since August 2005 and helped a great deal in getting the club into the playoffs. No-brainer.

I think he also has the best WHIP, the most ignored and perhaps most important pitching stat there is (in terms of identifying true pitching talent).

Shane W
11-15-2006, 12:44 PM
I think he also has the best WHIP, the most ignored and perhaps most important pitching stat there is (in terms of identifying true pitching talent).

And going by your posts, I'm even more shocked that anyone looked at Webb, compared him to Hoffman, Oswalt, or Carpenter and decided he was a good choice.

The guys that vote on this shit are idiots.

Brad N.
11-15-2006, 12:54 PM
And going by your posts, I'm even more shocked that anyone looked at Webb, compared him to Hoffman, Oswalt, or Carpenter and decided he was a good choice.

The guys that vote on this shit are idiots.

True. We'll really know if there are ANY votes for anyone besides Santana. Looking back I probably would have voted Hoffman.

Shane W
11-15-2006, 01:05 PM
True. We'll really know if there are ANY votes for anyone besides Santana. Looking back I probably would have voted Hoffman.


I would have pulled a homer and voted Carp but would have been okay with Oswalt. To me, for a reliever to win, they need to be OUTSTANDING above and beyond. I didn't get that from Hoff this year.

King of Mars
11-15-2006, 02:46 PM
And going by your posts, I'm even more shocked that anyone looked at Webb, compared him to Hoffman, Oswalt, or Carpenter and decided he was a good choice.

The guys that vote on this shit are idiots.Webb led the league in wins playing for a bad team and, minus his final horrible start of the season, would have led the league in ERA. He was also second in the league in innings pitched. He's worthy of this award.

Shane W
11-15-2006, 02:50 PM
Webb led the league in wins playing for a bad team and, minus his final horrible start of the season, would have led the league in ERA. He was also second in the league in innings pitched. He's worthy of this award.

Okay, so by that argument take away Carpenter's bad start and HE leads the league. Take away a bad start by Oswalt and he leads by more. ERA and WHIP make up for playing on a bad team, it's a built in stat.

He's only worthy if you shut your eyes and ignore that there were at least two pithers better.

King of Mars
11-15-2006, 03:02 PM
Okay, so by that argument take away Carpenter's bad start and HE leads the league. Take away a bad start by Oswalt and he leads by more. ERA and WHIP make up for playing on a bad team, it's a built in stat.

He's only worthy if you shut your eyes and ignore that there were at least two pithers better.The point is (shocked that you missed it, by the way), a guy's "superior" or "inferior" numbers can sometimes be attributed to nothing more than one good/bad start. There wasn't a huge amount of difference in the way these guys performed over the course of the season...so it shouldn't be cause for outrage that Webb won the award. He had a Cy Young type of year.

Bill!
11-15-2006, 03:09 PM
I would have pulled a homer and voted Carp but would have been okay with Oswalt. To me, for a reliever to win, they need to be OUTSTANDING above and beyond. I didn't get that from Hoff this year.

You're right though. Carp should have gotten it. I actually just looked at the info for the first time. Carp had one less win (big fucking whoop), lower ERA, more K's for less innings pitched, a smaller WHIP. Carpenter was the better pitcher this year. Hands down. The fact that Webb won more games for a worse team is meaningless, because the ERA is the same. So its not like his team didn't score him runs.

Brad N.
11-15-2006, 03:11 PM
You're right though. Carp should have gotten it. I actually just looked at the info for the first time. Carp had one less win (big fucking whoop), lower ERA, more K's for less innings pitched, a smaller WHIP. Carpenter was the better pitcher this year. Hands down. The fact that Webb won more games for a worse team is meaningless, because the ERA is the same. So its not like his team didn't score him runs.

Shit, did I say Hoffman? I meant to type Chris Carpenter as well. Your logic is sound.

King of Mars
11-15-2006, 05:51 PM
You're right though. Carp should have gotten it. I actually just looked at the info for the first time. Carp had one less win (big fucking whoop), lower ERA, more K's for less innings pitched, a smaller WHIP. Carpenter was the better pitcher this year. Hands down. The fact that Webb won more games for a worse team is meaningless, because the ERA is the same. So its not like his team didn't score him runs.Webb's ERA was 3.10, Carpenter's was 3.09. There was no advantage there. Also, that slightly greater strikeout total (only +six in Carpenter's favor) is meaningless. Webb dominates by using a fantastic sinker to induce weakly hit groundballs. It makes sense that he would have less strikeouts than Carpenter. Doesn't mean that he wasn't just as tough to hit.

Webb pitched deep into games for a team that desperately needed him to eat up innings. I wouldn't have a problem if Carpenter had won the award...but there was no great injustice involved with Webb getting it.

Bill!
11-16-2006, 05:52 AM
Webb's ERA was 3.10, Carpenter's was 3.09. There was no advantage there. Also, that slightly greater strikeout total (only +six in Carpenter's favor) is meaningless. Webb dominates by using a fantastic sinker to induce weakly hit groundballs. It makes sense that he would have less strikeouts than Carpenter. Doesn't mean that he wasn't just as tough to hit.

Webb pitched deep into games for a team that desperately needed him to eat up innings. I wouldn't have a problem if Carpenter had won the award...but there was no great injustice involved with Webb getting it.

Carp still had a lower WHIP than Webb, meaning even with Webb's "amazing sinker", Carp still gave up less walks and hits per inning. The numbers are all there, Carpenter was the better pitcher. This isn't the MVP award, its the Cy Young. His team should have nothing to do with it.

King of Mars
11-16-2006, 08:39 AM
Carp still had a lower WHIP than Webb, meaning even with Webb's "amazing sinker", Carp still gave up less walks and hits per inning. The numbers are all there, Carpenter was the better pitcher. This isn't the MVP award, its the Cy Young. His team should have nothing to do with it.Webb pitched more innings than Carpenter. He may have given up more walks and hits than Carpenter because his team needed him to go deeper into games and that made him a bit more vulnerable to giving up cheap hits. Bottom line is, he still managed to keep a lot of those guys he put on from scoring and that's reflected in his ERA and won/lost record.

Bill!
11-16-2006, 08:41 AM
Webb pitched more innings than Carpenter. He may have given up more walks and hits than Carpenter because his team needed him to go deeper into games and that made him a bit more vulnerable to giving up cheap hits. Bottom line is, he still managed to keep a lot of those guys he put on from scoring and that's reflected in his ERA and won/lost record.

He played what, like ten more innings? Thats not that much. That's like an extra third of an inning each game. I don't think that's a valid argument here.

Shane W
11-16-2006, 08:42 AM
Webb pitched more innings than Carpenter. He may have given up more walks and hits than Carpenter because his team needed him to go deeper into games and that made him a bit more vulnerable to giving up cheap hits. Bottom line is, he still managed to keep a lot of those guys he put on from scoring and that's reflected in his ERA and won/lost record.

ERA only, not won/lost. He could have pitched exactly the same and won or lost every game.

Bill!
11-16-2006, 10:19 AM
Santana won unanimously, shocker.

Shane W
11-16-2006, 10:45 AM
Santana won unanimously, shocker.

Well, at least they got THAT right.

Brad N.
11-16-2006, 10:59 AM
Santana won unanimously, shocker.

Good deal...Morneau for MVP!!!

Doug
11-16-2006, 11:21 AM
I was happy to see Wang get 2nd. No doubt Santana deserved the win, but I was happy to see Wang do so well in the voting.

Brad N.
11-16-2006, 11:23 AM
I was happy to see Wang get 2nd. No doubt Santana deserved the win, but I was happy to see Wang do so well in the voting.

Not bad for him.