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Race
11-07-2006, 07:10 AM
I should've coincided this with USM 100 - oh, well . . .

This far in, has the Ultimate universe successfully established itself as being an independant continutiy - or, for the most part, is it just more of the same?

If it is the later, what can be done to change course without resorting to a retcon in this reality at such a young age.

Matt Jay
11-07-2006, 07:19 AM
I think Millar has taken some huge leaps (Defenders, Namor, Super-skrull, Wolverine), but most writers tend to keep it pretty similar.

Brendan
11-07-2006, 07:23 AM
The Ultimate Universe was the thing that got me buying Marvel comics again. I love it.

I've started buying more 616 stuff as well, but the lion's share of my Marvel money is still going to the Ultiverse.

SteveZegers
11-07-2006, 07:26 AM
Of all of them, I think Ultimate X-Men could be more different. The rest are fine though.

JABSEN
11-07-2006, 07:26 AM
the stuff Bendis is doing on USM is pretty damn different. Millar's Ultimates,too. Really, UXM is the one that usualy feels like it's threading familiar ground. I'd vote different, I guess.

joeAR
11-07-2006, 07:27 AM
Like just about everyone has already said. Different except for Ult. X-Men.

Race
11-07-2006, 07:29 AM
Let's list the major differences:

1) Nick Fury is black
2) Galactus is a hive minded, insect-like invader
3) . . . ?

Brendan
11-07-2006, 07:31 AM
The differences in Ultimate Spider-Man are too many name. Peter Parker is Spider-Man, he still lives with Aunt May, but there the similarities pretty much end.

USM is the best comic on the stands and has been for years.

JABSEN
11-07-2006, 07:32 AM
Let's list the major differences:

1) Nick Fury is black
2) Galactus is a hive minded, insect-like invader
3) . . . ?I won't list the recent USM stuff cause it's super-spoilery but that.

jason hissong
11-07-2006, 07:34 AM
I've only ever purchased the Ultimates, a sparse issue of UXM here and there, and Warren Ellis' run on Fantastic Four.


I'm dissappointed. For me it all seems more of the same, except for the Ultimates. I love the Ultimates. Is it the greatest thing ever? No. But as far as straight capes comics with an action movie feel, it doesn't get better.

But the Ultimate U should be the place wehre anything goes. Anything. And I've yet to see that.

Race
11-07-2006, 07:35 AM
I won't list the recent USM stuff cause it's super-spoilery but that.I'm not asking for specific stories or plots, but those things that make the 616 what it is.

Like, for instance, if Capt. America's body had never been found and/or Aunt May died instead of Uncle Ben (or both!). Those kinds of radical changes . . .

Niall
11-07-2006, 07:39 AM
I think that there is a good balance between the two, which is what the Ultimate Universe should be about. It updates the old stories but still manages to be original. It creates new situations for characters that would be impossible in the ordinary universe, allowing writers and artists to be more creative.

It would be stupid if the UU was to completely distance itself from the 616U because then what would be the point? It just needs to pick the continuity it wants and mould it into its own new story.

FredC
11-07-2006, 07:41 AM
I would say no, they're not that different.

They may tell different stories but the characters are the same. And really thats what Marvel does best. The characters.

Foolish Mortal
11-07-2006, 07:50 AM
Let's list the major differences:

1) Nick Fury is black
2) Galactus is a hive minded, insect-like invader
3) . . . ?
The Ultimate Hulk is an unrepentant killer/cannibal, and 616 Hulk isn't.

Jef UK
11-07-2006, 07:55 AM
Off the top of my head:

Vision is a girl.
Bucky survived and aged appropriately and is married to Cap.'s ex.
Thor was depicted as possibly insane.
Hulk is a product of the super soldier project.
OZ formula = radioactive (x).
Venom and Carnage origins rehauled.
FF are all teenagers.
Doom has powers and gains them in the same experiment that results in the FF.
Negative Zone particles = cosmic rays.
Hulk is cannibalistic.
Spidey hearts Kitty Pryde.
Beast, how little we knew ye.
Colussus is gay.
Nightcrawler is homophobic.
Dazzler is awesome.
Longshot is a murderer who is an Earthborn, genoshan mutant.
Spiral is an Earthborn, genoshan mutant.
Mojo is an albino, earthborn TV exec.
Arcade is a big game mercenary of sorts.
The Shi'ar is a cult on Earth.
The Pheonix force isn't spaced out.
The Goblins are all actually goblins.
Doc Ock's origin tied in to Spidey's and Green Goblin's.
Something's up with Cable and Bishop....
Something's up with Peter's family....
Xavier boffed Emma Frost.
Havok, Polaris, Northstar, Sunspot and Cypher are Hellions.
Rogue isn't super from Ms. Marvel powers.
Juggernaut is a mutant.
Juggs, Nightcrawler and Rogue were all a part of the Weapon X program.
Silver Surfer is...I don't know what the fuck was up with Silver Surfer.
Moon Dragon has a lot of fucking clones.
Dr. Strange is the son of a Dr. Stange with the same origin as his 616 counterpart.
Nightmare is just as lame of a villain in either reality.

Akira
11-07-2006, 07:58 AM
I think Millar has taken some huge leaps (Defenders, Namor, Super-skrull, Wolverine), but most writers tend to keep it pretty similar.

Exactly. Millar (and Bendis in USM, not so much UXM) kept the universe fresh and vital. The first several arcs of UXM felt like anything could happen at anytime. It really felt like a new universe, the same thing with Ultimates too. Subsequent writers have tended to go for "more of the same, but re-heated" Which is the main reason that I dropped half of the ultimate universe in monthlies.

Brendan
11-07-2006, 08:01 AM
Exactly. Millar (and Bendis in USM, not so much UXM) kept the universe fresh and vital. The first several arcs of UXM felt like anything could happen at anytime. It really felt like a new universe, the same thing with Ultimates too. Subsequent writers have tended to go for "more of the same, but re-heated"

Yep.

Looking back on recent issues of UXM...

I think Kirkman is really, really good at the "quiet moments." Stuff like students talking at the school, Xavier dating the Shi'ar chick, etc. It's when it comes to the X-Men fighting bad guys that I think Kirkman's story is faltering. He's really good at writing the emotional character stuff, but his action sequences feel like same-old same-old.

I am enjoying Kirman's stuff, though I do wish he would refocus a bit. Keep up with the character moments and find a way to inject some of that into the action sequences. If a fight is just a fight, there's no real punch. No emotional target. Bendis is actually really, really good at that.

innocentboy
11-08-2006, 07:51 AM
innocentboy thinks that the Ultimate Universe is has just the right amount of "different" in it. still favour the 616 'cause it's the original badbwoy, but Ultimate Universe is being done very good. of course, as with the 616, you can get what you like, and not get what you don't like.

but yeah, kinda surprised at how serious Marvel seems about the Ultimate Universe ... with Ultimate versions appearing in games and shit

Gavin
11-08-2006, 02:12 PM
In some aspects it's pretty different, but in some ways it's still somewhat slavish to 616. I think they could easily make it more different while being true to the characters.

Hate_Prime
11-08-2006, 03:28 PM
Let's list the major differences:

1) Nick Fury is black
2) Galactus is a hive minded, insect-like invader
3) . . . ?

If you try to look at what's below the surface, you'll see that the characterization for a lot of characters are different (even if subtle). And to me that's more significant than, say, the the Wasp being of asian descent.

Icaruss
11-08-2006, 04:41 PM
I'm not asking for specific stories or plots, but those things that make the 616 what it is.

Like, for instance, if Capt. America's body had never been found and/or Aunt May died instead of Uncle Ben (or both!). Those kinds of radical changes . . .

But what would be the point of that? The thing about it was to keep the escense of the characters, and make it more modern,and realistic. For example, Captain America's body was found, but know he's a tough, soldier, that kills people without ever giving it a second thought, because he still has that soldier-mentality.

Uncle Ben died, but in this reality, Aunt May is not a weak, and fragile old lady. She's a tough, working lady, who brings the bread to the table, and even sexes around.

Hulk is a crazy homicidal maniac who eats people, and is not really a hero. Spiderman is full of teen angst, rather than superheroics.

I love the Ultimate Universe. Its similar, but its damn different too.

The Human Target
11-08-2006, 04:50 PM
Not really no.

The Ultimates is the most different, and it still treds pretty close to the 616. Its just redone in a much more modern way and paced totally differently.