Ms. Marvel 8; everybody is talking...

[Mitchel]

Everybody is talking about it in other boards; extensive discussions and I cannot believe that nobody has posted a thread about it in this board. Some people are rooting for Julia, others discuss Ms. Marvel point of view, others are being introduced to Wonder Man in this series and liking the character, others are asking to see more of Arachne. Many solo Avengers titles and minis have come out in the last years but by all the buzz that this Civil War crossover has created I would think the Ms. Marvel title is being well received.
I know that it has become the number one title in my pull list.

Oh and Brian please continue with the superhero guest stars in this book, I read the letters page of this issue and I cannot agree more with you that it is a lot more enjoyable when we get to have a supporting cast of superheroes. I hate when the stories tend to be in a microverse of the Marvel Universe where Ms. Marvel only interacts with her own cast that is new and exclusive of the series. I love what you are doing. If I may have a vote I would love to see Jocasta in action again, any chances of her joining the cast of Ms. Marvel?

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

Discussion? Cool. I'll start with my favorite: Arachne is a moron. The double agent idea wasn't her worst. Leaving her daughter with the grandparents was almost her dumbest move. The dumbest was going to retrieve her when SHIELD could have gotten the address from the phone book if they hadn't already had it on file. Julia Carpenter continues her long run of not so bright choices.

As for MsM, Brian Reed has managed to be the first writer to flesh out the motivation of a pro-reg hero to the point that I can agree with them. Carol believes in the rule of law and following orders. The fact she appeared more angry that Arachne hospitalized SHIELD operatives than the idiot trying to give her face road rash made her look good too. I don't think Carol should have felt bad at the end. True, bad shit went down in front of arachne's daughter but that was Arachne's choice, not Carol's. Carol's still the only pro-reg hero I still consider a hero.

[GelfXIII]

Honestly, I couldn't disagree more. The more Carole sticks with the party line, the more I dislike her, and all the other Pro-reg heroes out there. Because you're right, she is making the best argument for pro-reg that's been made, and it's still unconvincing, not only to me, the reader, but also to herself. The most realistic thing to me was her fury about the Shield agents who got hrt, because that's a very common feeling among cops and soldiers, although to me, I dont see how you can blame arachne in this case. They attacked her home and her family, she retaliated. It's perfectly justifiable from an external POV, which of course is Brian's point in writing it that way.
Personally, I'm getting extremely tired of the whole CW story line, which to me is getting extremely tiresome, and is also making me dislike too many characters I previously liked. I'm afraid MsM is one of those. Pretty much all the pro-reg "heroes" are well on their way down that slippery slope to villainous, especially Reed Richards and Tony Stark, and I'm pretty sure I'll be disliking them for a long time to come because of this. I don't know how they're going to retcon them back into heroic, but it's not going to be easy.

[ramtower]

Pretty much all the pro-reg "heroes" are well on their way down that slippery slope to villainous, especially Reed Richards and Tony Stark, and I'm pretty sure I'll be disliking them for a long time to come because of this. I don't know how they're going to retcon them back into heroic, but it's not going to be easy.

That's my problem with CW. I thought it was going to be two sides that were both equally strong, morally, that were both viable positions for a person to hold, but instead, the bias against registration is so strong that everyone who goes pro-registration transforms into a straw man for each author to attack. No pro-reg character beyond Ms. M has been written with any kind of moral depth or believability, not even Tony Stark, whose position when this whole thing started made a lot of sense to me. Reed Richards is the saddest case, I think, because for a man as smart as he is meant to be, he relies on the anti-intellectual argument that all laws must be obeyed because they are laws. He, above all other people, should see (at the very least) that civil disobedience is a viable method of changing bad laws. I would have thought he'd have gone that route, disapproving of the outright rebels--agreeing morally with their stance but not with their actions.

I just wish the whole thing weren't so transparent, so black-and-white. Ms. Marvel, as I mentioned before, at least has what I consider consistent beliefs and actions.

[Mitchel]

Discussion? Cool. I'll start with my favorite: Arachne is a moron. The double agent idea wasn't her worst. Leaving her daughter with the grandparents was almost her dumbest move. The dumbest was going to retrieve her when SHIELD could have gotten the address from the phone book if they hadn't already had it on file. Julia Carpenter continues her long run of not so bright choices.

As for MsM, Brian Reed has managed to be the first writer to flesh out the motivation of a pro-reg hero to the point that I can agree with them.


I have to agree with all this. Arachne's really won the stupidity award when she decided to try and walk thru the front door with her daughter exposing her in the worst way. As it went it could have been a lot worst. A responsible mother would have flee the house by herself as soon as she knew the Pro registration were at the house, that way sparing her child of any trauma.

[Dermie]

although to me, I dont see how you can blame arachne in this case. They attacked her home and her family, she retaliated.

Not true. They didn't attack her home or her family--in fact, they didn't 'attack' at all. They arrived at her home to arrest Julia; her family was not involved. Julia turned it into a fight by throwing the first punch--*she* attacked them. Julia was also the first one to start damaging the house, when she started throwing chunks of the roof at SHIELD agents.

Carol and the SHIELD agents were the ones retaliating to Julia's criminal actions and her assault on law enforcement officers.

[Mitchel]

I think this is a good example at how partial the other Civil War titles have been that they have steered the reader opinion in a way they will applaud anybody that is against registration no matter how bad their actions are presented.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

Are there any other titles out there where the lead is pro-reg? I guess there's F4 and Spider-Man but too many tepid interpretations of both have cost me my love of them and 'sides, JMS' writing is not my cup of tea. MsM stands out for me because we got to get inside her head. The main CW book is so plot driven it would work with any two heroes plugged in for Captain America and Iron Man.

I liked that Carol had reasons for what she did. I would have chosen differently in her place but I get where she came from and that her motivation was good and honorable. I don't think she needs to feel one bit sorry for what she did. MsM didn't choose to take down Arachne in front of her kid. The kid's own mother decided to scar her. Julia Carpenter was confronted with Ms Marvel and Wonder Man and oodles of SHIELD agents and knew how the fight was going to turn out. She also knew Carol and Simon personally and knew how they would react to her plea. Julia has become the most passive aggressive woman in tights I've ever seen. She staged an event that she knew would eat at a good character like Carol at the expense of the future emotional well being of her daughter. The kid needs to disappear into child protective services if she's to have any chance of growing up normal now.

And Arana? Does no one have a giant can of Raid handy? I like the character a little bit better with Brian Reed's skillful handling of her but that carapace has got to go. She looks like a bad sci fi extra rather than a potential star. If Reed is serious about giving that character legs, she has to have a look as appealing as the character he has started to flesh out.

[ramtower]

I think this is a good example at how impartial the other Civil War titles have been that they have steered the reader opinion in a way they will applaud anybody that is against registration no matter how bad their actions are presented.

Isn't that the exact opposite of impartiality, if your writing deliberately steers reader opinion toward a specific conclusion rather than allowing the audience to draw its own conclusions?

[ramtower]

I liked that Carol had reasons for what she did. I would have chosen differently in her place but I get where she came from and that her motivation was good and honorable. I don't think she needs to feel one bit sorry for what she did.

Ding! There's impartiality -- you, as a reader, have been allowed to draw conclusions and judge as you will. Her actions make sense to you as a reader, even though you yourself disagree with them. That's what I wish more CW books possessed -- the faith in the reader to create meaning from a text rather than the need to force meaning on the reader.

[Dermie]

Are there any other titles out there where the lead is pro-reg?

SHE-HULK, which has also done a great job of showing pro-Reg in a positive way. Also IRON MAN begins its Civil War tie-in next issue. The THUNDERBOLTS are also fighting on the pro-Reg side (but their tie-in arc ended a few issues ago).

And Arana? Does no one have a giant can of Raid handy? I like the character a little bit better with Brian Reed's skillful handling of her but that carapace has got to go. She looks like a bad sci fi extra rather than a potential star. If Reed is serious about giving that character legs, she has to have a look as appealing as the character he has started to flesh out.

Although I definately understand why people are put off by her carapace, I kinda like it--it is nice to have a spider-based character that actually *looks* spider-based for once.

[Olivier E.]

The issues are getting better and better, but when did that happen to Julia?

[Mitchel]

Isn't that the exact opposite of impartiality, if your writing deliberately steers reader opinion toward a specific conclusion rather than allowing the audience to draw its own conclusions?

Ugh, yes and that was an example where a huge typo can screw up a post. :Oops: It has been corrected now.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

If I may have a vote I would love to see Jocasta in action again, any chances of her joining the cast of Ms. Marvel?


How did I miss that sentence? Jocasta needs to come back but a new millenium take. What about upgrading the whole Ulton cast to genetic viruses that reshape host bodies as needed to house them? Jocasta could then be the one who reluctantly uses the power to combat Ultron and his second wife...

[ramtower]

Ugh, yes and that was an example where a huge typo can screw up a post. :Oops: It has been corrected now.

Whoops! Okeedoke, sorry for diving in to attack like that -- yeah, we're on the same page, then.

[Dermie]

The issues are getting better and better, but when did that happen to Julia?

When did what happen to her? When did she lose her powers and get crippled? That happened when the Mattie Franklin made her debut. Some villainess went after all the previous Spider-Women, and stole their powers, and crippled Julia in the process. This storyline was the lead-in to Mattie Franklin becoming the latest Spider-Woman.

[NickT]

I think this is a good example at how partial the other Civil War titles have been that they have steered the reader opinion in a way they will applaud anybody that is against registration no matter how bad their actions are presented.
I don't think that is neccesarily down to the books. Before a single book was out, most were on Cap's side. When the only decent arguments made in the books were pro-reg, nothing changed.

[Binaryan]

I agree with those who have pegged Arachne as making bad choices that have aggravated the situation and escalated Carol's response. Carol tried to give her a chance to do the right thing and she passed it up and instigated a fight. Carol's drifitng further into the moral grey, but is not irredeemable in my eyes the way Tony and Reed are.

One thing I think should play a major argument in why Carol is Pro-Reg is the fact that she herself single-handedly nearly caused a disaster on the scale of Stamford. In IRON MAN, she nearly downed a commercial airliner while drunk and fighting Tony. She then voluntarily did exactly what the SRA is asking others to do: reveal themselves and be held accountable for their actions. I think Carol's self-awareness of how bad things can get when a superhuman is out-of-control should be the cornerstone of her convictions around Registration. One of the reasons I think Carol has "blinders" on surrounding the shadier parts of the Act and its implementation is that she sees herself mirrored in what happened in Stamford and is driven by her own guilt and desperate need to take responsibility for her actions.

Granted, she came forth voluntarily in that instance but only after she hit rock bottom. I think she genuinely wants to prevent others from ever reaching that place by working with the government and providing them with the training and oversight to proactively prevent people from getting to the scary place she reached.

One thing that's unclear is just how much of the underbelly of the government's implementation Carol is aware of. Does she know about the Negative Zone prison? Is she in on the details of the "50 States Initiative"? Is she fully aware of the cloning program? Does she know Simon was blackmailed into his current role?

My guess is that she doesn't. I think Tony and the CSA know her well enough now to realize there are limits to what Carol will support.... look at how she felt using the Thunderbolts to send a message to the New Avengers. She only grudgingly supported that. I think Carol is largely in the dark about these things and may not have supported Pro-Reg if she had been.

Thoughts??

Ryan

[Mitchel]

Does she know Simon was blackmailed into his current role?
Ryan

SPOILERS**Simon wasn't blackmailed into registering, he was already registered before Shield decided to blackmail him, remember he was even filming a pro registration commercial when the story starts. He was blackmailed into searching for the rogue Atlanteans. So I don't think you can say Simon was blackmailed into his current role. And I will have to kick that Paul Jenkins if he doesn't clears up the blackmail in Simon's favor. ;-)

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

The Simon embezzlement stories tend to go in cycles. We're in the 'he's guilty part' now but inevitably someone clears his name. It'll only be further down the road that we'll find out he was guilty after all.

And if Simon goes all ionic on MsM while they're at it, could she absorb his energy down into nothingness?

[Dermie]

SPOILERS**Simon wasn't blackmailed into registering, he was already registered before Shield decided to blackmail him, remember he was even filming a pro registration commercial when the story starts. He was blackmailed into searching for the rogue Atlanteans. So I don't think you can say Simon was blackmailed into his current role.

Actually, that is exactly what you should say--his 'current role' is searching for the Atlanteans, which he was blackmailed into. Describes the situation perfectly, imo. Binaryan never said he was blackmailed into registering.

One thing I think should play a major argument in why Carol is Pro-Reg is the fact that she herself single-handedly nearly caused a disaster on the scale of Stamford. In IRON MAN, she nearly downed a commercial airliner while drunk and fighting Tony. She then voluntarily did exactly what the SRA is asking others to do: reveal themselves and be held accountable for their actions.

Exactly. And I think that is a part of the reasoning behind Wonder Man being pro-reg too; he has a long history of taking responsibility for his own mistakes, like when he publically confessed to embezzlement from Williams Foundations, and when he tried to turn himself in for causing the death of that gang member from his solo series in AVENGERS TWO.

I think Tony and the CSA know her well enough now to realize there are limits to what Carol will support.... look at how she felt using the Thunderbolts to send a message to the New Avengers. She only grudgingly supported that.

And she ended up resigning shortly afterward, in large part due to her discomfort about that operation.

think Carol is largely in the dark about these things and may not have supported Pro-Reg if she had been.

I tend to agree. I think there are a lot of heroes, like Carol and Simon, who support the idea of the registration act, and having heroes be properly trained and authorized, etc...but who won't agree with the way it is being implemented. The Registration Act itself is not bad thing--the Avengers were basically doing their own version of it for years internally, with their government ties, security background checks, training, etc--but the way it is being implemented and enforced is the problem.

[Olivier E.]

When did what happen to her? When did she lose her powers and get crippled? That happened when the Mattie Franklin made her debut. Some villainess went after all the previous Spider-Women, and stole their powers, and crippled Julia in the process. This storyline was the lead-in to Mattie Franklin becoming the latest Spider-Woman.

Oh thanks, didn't know of that.

[Mitchel]

Actually, that is exactly what you should say--his 'current role' is searching for the Atlanteans, which he was blackmailed into. Describes the situation perfectly, imo. Binaryan never said he was blackmailed into registering.


My bad then. It read to me as if he was referring to his current role as part of Tony's registration team since that story seems to run in Frontline as something totally independent of the Ms. Marvel comic.

[bennymatthewtaylor]

Simon probably registered because he had a public identity much like the guys in X-Factor before Jamie told his minions it was wrong. Simon didn't have anything to hide so there was no point hiding which he wasn't. Except his embezzelment. Simon set up that "Charity" at the end of "Avengers Two" and it's all the roylaty checks from his movies and TV dumped into a fund. Unless he's expanded the base, he's the sole donator to that wellspring, however little miss S.H.I.E.L.D. said he was didling his taxes on the Charity didn't she?

Nick Fury faked Simons embezzelment to task Simon as a deep throat into the corrupt rungs of shield?

OKay, Brian, number 8 was excellent but you've stopped defending the proreg side more than you're saying that the antiregistration folkes are disruptive while avoiding enslavement, which totally reminds me of Clapton, or was it Jimi?

"I shot the Sherrif... but I did not shoot the deputy!"

By you're reasoning then, mute humanity should just wait patiently for the apes on horse back to sccop them up in big nets and not run away top avoid vivsection and farmed circus life... My god I'm old. I need to watch some new movies.

[ramtower]

Nick Fury faked Simons embezzelment to task Simon as a deep throat into the corrupt rungs of shield?

whoa. i just totally misread that sentence...

[bennymatthewtaylor]

Christ on a Bike.

Which "word" did you most misread?

[Dermie]

Simon probably registered because he had a public identity much like the guys in X-Factor before Jamie told his minions it was wrong.

There is a lot more to the Registration Act than simply secret identities though--Captain America, Falcon, Luke Cage, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, and several other heroes who have public identities are anti-reg. So it wouldn't just be the fact that he already has a public id that would make Simon sign up.

Simon didn't have anything to hide so there was no point hiding which he wasn't. Except his embezzelment. Simon set up that "Charity" at the end of "Avengers Two" and it's all the roylaty checks from his movies and TV dumped into a fund. Unless he's expanded the base, he's the sole donator to that wellspring, however little miss S.H.I.E.L.D. said he was didling his taxes on the Charity didn't she?

That embezzlement thing doesn't make any sense for Simon's character. However, as Tom Brevoort has pointed out, it has yet to be proven that Simon is actually guilty of anything; it could have been someone else working at Second Chances who committed the crime, if a crime was committed at all. Hopefully this will be cleared up before the story is over.

[ramtower]

Christ on a Bike.

Which "word" did you most misread?

Maybe I just got hung up on the 'deep throat' part.

[bennymatthewtaylor]

"Well Hung" up?

I was reading Captain America this morning and Nick Fury totally believes that the registration act is the draft. Which supports Miss S.H.I.E.L.D's comments to Wonderman, which Tom Brevort backpeddled was a conjob simple Simon swallowed because the SRA is nott he draft and was never intended to be.

Brian, before Tom lay down the law, did you ever think you were supposed to be writing about the draft?

[NickT]

"Well Hung" up?

I was reading Captain America this morning and Nick Fury totally believes that the registration act is the draft. Which supports Miss S.H.I.E.L.D's comments to Wonderman, which Tom Brevort backpeddled was a conjob simple Simon swallowed because the SRA is nott he draft and was never intended to be.

Brian, before Tom lay down the law, did you ever think you were supposed to be writing about the draft?
If it was a draft, why would they blackmail him?

[Brian Reed]

Glad folks enjoyed (or hated, depending on the fan mail of the moment) our little tale. I shall now answer every question in this thread:

Jocasta - No plans at the moment.

Discussion? Yes.

Other Pro-Reg titles: She Hulk, Iron Man (starts next issue). Fantastic Four (they're not all pro, but their leader is). Thunderbolts. Spider-Man (at least, it was). Heroes for Hire.

Arana? I love her. A good character who was previously in a not so good story. Like several other characters recently found by creators who see their potential. See Also: Luke Cage. Spider-Woman. Speedball. She-Hulk. Cloak & Dagger... the list goes on.

Giant can of Raid? It wouldn't work on her anyway. (and as for your carapace thoughts... stick around...)

ramtower's misunderstanding due to typo: yes

when did that happen to Julia: at the start of the Mattie Franklin Spider-Woman series, if I recall. (Bendis undid one Spider-Woman's power loss in that story. I undid the other. The race is on to see who can invalidate John Byrne's work on Mattie Franklin.*)

how did you miss that sentence? Temporary blindness. Too much alcohol and/or masturbation.

Ultron: Busy at the moment.

Does she know about the Negative Zone prison? Not yet.

Is she in on the details of the "50 States Initiative"? Yes. It was a rather public part of the bill, if I recall.

Is she fully aware of the cloning program? Not as of now.

Does she know Simon was blackmailed into his current role? Simon was pro-reg before they came along asking him to do some shady business.

Thoughts?? I wish I had a cool machine that could read my thoughts and write them down. Then I could play more World of WarCraft and still get all my writing done.

And if Simon goes all ionic on MsM while they're at it--- You know what? I'm not answering this one.

Charity taxes: don't remember exactly. I didn't write that story and while I've been reading and enjoying Frontline, I've been too busy to commit it to memory just yet.

Nick Fury faked Simons embezzelment to task Simon as a deep throat into the corrupt rungs of shield? Again - not my story. And I love Nick too much to write anything about him that didn't involve a vendetta against David Hasselhoff.

Who shot the Sheriff? Bob Marley

Which "word" did you most misread? Paradigm. I know the word. I know what it means. Yet I always read it as "para dig 'em"

"Well Hung" up? Is it too late for a William Hung joke?

laying down the law about the draft: No. To many things. 1st of all, there was never a laying down of any law. Second of all, I never approached this as a story about the draft. It's an interesting concept and certainly one that would prove fertile ground for stories, but I didn't write this arc with that in mind. The one and only thing dictated to me from above was that Carol was pro-reg. Everything else came from ideas I pitched based on that fact and the rest of the Civil War story.

If it was a draft, why would they blackmail him? I don't know.

Is it too late for a William Hung joke? Yes. yes it is.




*No such thing is happening. Calm down. You're turning funny colors.

[bennymatthewtaylor]

Thanks Brian. :)

[Howlett]

when did that happen to Julia: at the start of the Mattie Franklin Spider-Woman series, if I recall. (Bendis undid one Spider-Woman's power loss in that story. I undid the other. The race is on to see who can invalidate John Byrne's work on Mattie Franklin.*)
Brian.... I think.... I think I just fell in love with you :rofl:

In a totally heterosexual, non-gay way of course :scared:

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

What was Byrne's work on Mattie? All I know is the Charlotte Witter stuff from Wikipedia...

[Brian Reed]

What was Byrne's work on Mattie? All I know is the Charlotte Witter stuff from Wikipedia...

He created Mattie. So invalidating her would mean unmaking her and I'm too partial to my spider-characters to go trying to do anything like that.

[ramtower]

In a totally heterosexual, non-gay way of course :scared:

...well, that's disappointing.

[Dermie]

(Bendis undid one Spider-Woman's power loss in that story. I undid the other. The race is on to see who can invalidate John Byrne's work on Mattie Franklin.*)

Well, you guys might not be invalidating her, but Bendis sure chewed her up and spit her out over in ALIAS. ;)

[Howlett]

...well, that's disappointing.
:shock:

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

I have to ask: Was it intentional that Julia Carpenter be shown as a bad mother? Her stated goal with her daughter was she be ahoqn the difference between right and wrong. That could be accomplished by her being cuffed and led away. She instead forced her young child to witness a savage beatdown that she instigated and was the only possible outcome of Arachne going up against MsM, Wonder Man, and a battalion of cape killers. She also could have called her parents between hospitalizing the SHIELD agents and robbing that poor schmuck and arranged a neutral meeting place. Not doing that put her parents in a position where I doubt they'd get custody of Rachel, having been full accessories to Julia's attempt at flight. I might agree with Arachne's anti-reg stance but her disregard for the longterm emotional well being of a child has me viewing her as anything BUT heroic.

[ramtower]

Her stated goal with her daughter was she be ahoqn the difference between right and wrong.

I love it when my fingers slip over by one key on the keyboard. Those are my favorite typos.

And I'm not sure the goal was to show her as a bad mother per se but rather as a desperate mother, caught up in the panic of a moment and making terrible, desperate, and dangerous decisions. A moment's panic shouldn't reflect on the whole of her parenting skills, and yet that single moment's panic will have a lasting impact on her life--especially her life as a parent. I look at it less as a reflection on her parenting skills than as a reflection on what a poorly crafted law can push people to do, what the real-world (well, real comic-world) costs of something abstract like this legislation can be.

[Mitchel]

I never read John Byrne's Spider-woman but I seem to recall hearing that Julia had turned into a super-villain. Also didn't she start her career working for Mystique and the brotherhood of evil mutants?

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

I think Julia was part of Freedom Force, the iteration Raven Darkholme's Brotherhood went through to keep themselves alive in a dangerous time in their careers. I believe the three World War 2 super-heroes/villains were a part of that too. One of Julia's earliest bad decisions was the way she cut her ties with that group.

And CPS doesn't care that every day besides the one you scarred your child on you were a great mother.

[ramtower]

And CPS doesn't care that every day besides the one you scarred your child on you were a great mother.

Nope, they sure don't. But it doesn't change the point that we're talking not about an issue meant to show someone as a bad mother but rather about ain issue meant to make real the effects of something abstract. I'd argue Brian's point was not to make Julia "be shown as a bad mother," which was your question. The message I took from that issue was different.

And the message Brian intended may be different from what either of us took from it. Fortunately, the message we receive is, ultimately, the only one that matters -- the impact the book has on us as readers. That may be a problem inherent in even asking the question of intent, then -- that authorial intent matters less than reader reception and response, assuming that reader response is supported by textual evidence.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

I agree. No matter what a writer intends, the most important fact is how you receive it. I just think it's interesting to know intent at times.

[Brian Reed]

I probably shouldn't be saying this because it's like discussing a magic trick, but I'll go along this once.

Julia decided to teach her daughter a valuable lesson: If you think something is wrong, stand up for what you believe is right -- even if you know you're going to lose. But she chose a not-so-great way to teach it.

Could Julia have made better, more sound choices? Of course she could have. Shroud even tries to talk her out of going to Colorado because he knows it's a dumb idea. He knows how it's all going to end even if she doesn't. And my guess is, she damn well knew.

At the same time, I will tell you something I've learned as a parent -- sanity can fly right out the window when you sense your child may be in danger. You will run into that burning building. You will jump in front of that car. You will decide that only you can get your child out of the country because there's no way the government is going to let your parents do it for you.

Of course, issue 13 and 14 revisits dear Julia, and who knows what she'll be up to then.

[Dermie]

I never read John Byrne's Spider-woman but I seem to recall hearing that Julia had turned into a super-villain.

Nope. Julia was crippled and lost her powers in Byrne's SPIDER-WOMAN; she didn't become a villain. However, it was a new Spider-Woman supervillain who stole her powers...maybe that is what you're thinking of?

Also didn't she start her career working for Mystique and the brotherhood of evil mutants?

Not quite. She was a member of the government's Freedom Force team, which was led by Mystique and included several former Brotherood members--but they were government run super-agents at the time, not supervillains, and Julia was always uncomfortable working with the former villains.

[bennymatthewtaylor]

Legally how would the government or Iron Man have stopped Julia's grandparents just taking their grandkid to Canada with or with out her asking them to? They have no powers and had committed no crimes, that we know about. If Iron Man or S.H.I.E.L.D. had restricted them to sit still and be the bait to entice a huge metahuman debacle surely that's irresponsible and dangerous?

Julia's pappy to Stark: "My daughter is going to stick her foot up your ass."

Stark: "I highly doubt that."

Julia's pappy: "Well I don't want to be caught in any explosions which happen when your kind brawl, you remember Stamford right? So I'll be going. If anything happens to my house I am going to sue your ass, but whether you mind or not I am taking my wife and granddaughter away from here because you are making it far too dangerous and I don't appreciate being cheese to some melee where you're going to sacrifice Julia in sort of pagent to appease some vocal political minority."

Stark: "I'm afraid I can't allow you to leave."

Julia's pappy: "I am an American citizen and I have every right to peacefully go about my business and that includes not standing slack jawed at ground zero to a pissing contest between several human nuclear bombs treating my front yard like no mans land."

Stark: "Do you (And your wife.) want to be held accountable for aiding and abetting a terrorist and be detained for an indefinite period for acts of treason against the United States? What do you think is going to happen to your grandchild when you and your wife are stewing in camp X-Ray?"

Julia's pappy "My dughter is going to stick her foot up your ass."

[Brian Reed]

Stark: "Do you (And your wife.) want to be held accountable for aiding and abetting a terrorist and be detained for an indefinite period for acts of treason against the United States? What do you think is going to happen to your grandchild when you and your wife are stewing in camp X-Ray?"

That is certainly the situation Julia imagined when she told Shroud that there was no way SHIELD would let them flee and call home for their things.

Would it ever actually happen? No. But not a lot of people would say Julia was thinking very straight at any point in those issues.

[Cardinal Braxiatel]

How exactly did Carol's Homeland Security job work? I was out of comics for a year or two before this past February. I realized I've been going under the assumption that the recent post she held was coloring her actions and reactions in Civil War but I don't know what she did for the government.

[Dermie]

How exactly did Carol's Homeland Security job work? I was out of comics for a year or two before this past February. I realized I've been going under the assumption that the recent post she held was coloring her actions and reactions in Civil War but I don't know what she did for the government.

She was a member of the Comission on Superhuman Activities as Director of
Tactical Awareness for Homeland Security's Division of Superhuman Operations. Their charter (which Carol wrote) was to safeguard civilians from potential superhuman threats. Henry Gyrich actually reported to her--which was an interesting power shift in their relationship that I wish had been further explored.

During her time with Homeland Security and the CSA, Carol oversaw some superhuman prison facilities, and served as parole officer to Abe Jenkins (aka Mach IV of the T-Bolts, formerly the Beetle) when he was released from prison. She and her assistant, Dallas Riordan, functioned as the Thunderbolts government liasons in their work towards earning redemption and pardons.

She also, reluctantly, helped organize an operation against the New Avengers, after the government considered them a potential threat, since they secretly reorganized the team with a mentally unstable powerhouse like Sentry, and former Hydra assassins like Spider-Woman and Wolverine. The government Carol, Dallas and Gyrich use the T-Bolts to attack the New Avengers to 'send them a message' and keep them in line. However, Carol was so uncomfortable with that operation that she resigned her post soon afterward.