Who Is The All-Time BEST Comic Creator? Jack Kirby?

[WinstonWolf]

And when I say creator, I don't mean writer, or storyteller, or director. I mean in terms of comic book creations. And I mean ones that they created originally. Not characters from literature or other outside sources that they brought into comics, like Sherlock Holmes or something. I'm talking about original, imaginative creations here. Sometimes there creations get screwed up under other writers, who don't write them as well. And sometimes some creations BECOME cool only, or primarily under other writers. And with some exceptions, there are no such things as bad characters, only poorly written ones, or poor writers who write them. But these are the best of the best.

I think it would have to be Jack Kirby. He created Darkseid, one of the all-time classic villians, and maybe the biggest villian of the DC Universe, and Mr. Miracle. He co-created Galactus. He created the Eternals. And most importantly, he created the Celestials, who are just cooler beyond words. They need to be used more (the Celestials I mean.). Some other great or important creators:

#Jim Starlin- Created Thanos, Marvels #1 or 2 villian. He also created Drax, the classic Superman villian Mongul for DC, the KG Beast, and a bunch of other big and cool cosmic beings.

#Len Wein- Like Wolverines creator wouldn't make the list. Sheesh.

#Gerry Conway- He created the Punisher. AND he created Killer Croc, one of the coolest Batman villians (at least depending on how he's written.).

#David Michelinie- Created the Taskmaster, Carnage, and Venom. And I think some more guys.

# Chris Claremont- Created a NUMBER of important and classic characters for the X-Men Universe and the Marvel Universe proper.

# Steve Ditko- For the objectivist inspired the Question , if nothing else. If you like philosophy, or philosophical questions or characters like me, you'll like this guy. He's cool.

# Marv Wolfman- Bullseye and Deathstroke the Terminator are enough to do the trick.

#Frank Miller- Marv from Sin City is cool enough. And Stick from Daredevil. Nuke from the classic Born Again arc, also appears to be making a comeback lately.

# Roy Thomas- For Ultron and the Vision, if nothing else. And the Grim Reaper. I love the Reaper, and if I were writing the Avengers, he would definetely show up.

# Denny O'Neal- He created a bunch of good ones.

#Todd Mcfarlane- For Spawn, if nothing else.

#Stan Lee- IF he created the Marvel Universe. It seems there are conflicting stories over who is responsible for what characters.

# Whoever created Batman and all of the primary Batman villians.

#Ann Nocenti- Her creations were very;;;creative. Typhoid Mary, Blackheart, Mojo, Spiral. Interesting and ecleptic mix.

Any others? Who did I miss? Who are your favorites?

[Corey A.]

I'd go Stan Lee

[John M. Coker (Johnny C.)]

It'd be Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, you can't have one without the other. You take either one out of the equasion, and comics as we know them don't exist today.

[WinstonWolf]

I'd go Stan Lee

Does he have a sole creation though, or did he have help?

[A.Huerta]

Does he have a sole creation though, or did he have help?


Design work from the artists. Making characters like Spider-Man, Hulk etc.. is ALL STan Lee.

[Ray G.]

Stan Lee and Will Eisner. I know it's not what you said, but Eisner created the art form. Without him, none of the others would have existed likely. But Lee/Kirby for your criteria.

[Joe Doesn't Care]

I gotta go with Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel. They created Superman, that all you really have to say. Eisner for how he really invented how to create the modern comic book

[RickLM]

Stan Lee should be first, not only for how many he created, but also for the fact that the concepts behind them were strong enough to hold up for 40 years.

Jack Kirby is a solid #2.

[A.Huerta]

Stan Lee should be first, not only for how many he created, but also for the fact that the concepts behind them were strong enough to hold up for 40 years.

Jack Kirby is a solid #2.


Yes.

[WinstonWolf]

Design work from the artists. Making characters like Spider-Man, Hulk etc.. is ALL STan Lee.

I don't know if he created Spidey and the Hulk on HIS OWN. I thought Ditko (and even Lee himself) said that he was responsible for helping to create him as well.

[A.Huerta]

I don't know if he created Spidey and the Hulk on HIS OWN. I thought Ditko (and even Lee himself) said that he was responsible for helping to create him as well.


The concept is what matters, Stan came up with that. Ditko made the costume.

[WinstonWolf]

The concept is what matters, Stan came up with that. Ditko made the costume.

That's the thing though. I thought Ditko helped him with the concept. Wasn't that why Ditko came forward? Being an objectivist, he doesn't want somebody claiming total credit for something if they didn't do it all by themselves.

[Dusty]

Stan is the man!

I'm surprised the comic industry doesn't have a prestigious award named after him.

[DAVE]

Dude the most important creators are:
1)Joe Segal and Jerry Shuster:Brought us Superman. All of the other people on this list would've unemployed.
2)Stan Lee/Jack Kirby. You credit Jack Kirby for his co-creations, but hold them against Stan? "Most important the Celistials"!? How about most important, the Fantastic Four?
3)Stan Lee/Steve Ditko- With Stan Lee Ditko created Spider-man and Dr.Strange. Without Lee, the Creeper. Which characters have made a bigger impact on the medium?
4)Bob Kane/Bill Finger: Batman
5) Marty Nodell- the over looked creator of the Green Lantern. With the Golden Age GL, there'd be no silver age GL, and arguably no Silver Age, period.
6) Len Wein/Dave Cockrum leading into Chirs Claremont and John Byrne-The first for their roles in creating Wolverine, the rest for all they did to elevate him and the X-Men into what they are today.
7)Joe Simon/Jack Kirby: Captain America
8 )William Marston:Wonder Woman
9) CC Beck-Captain Marvel


It remains to be seen how much staying power Frank Millar's Elektra, Todd Mcfarlane's Spawn will have.

As popular as the Punisher is he's not in the same league as those other creations. Starlin, Michilinie Thomas are beloved for their writing, but I wouldn't put the Vision, Venom or Thanos in the same league as these guys either.

[A.Huerta]

That's the thing though. I thought Ditko helped him with the concept. Wasn't that why Ditko came forward? Being an objectivist, he doesn't want somebody claiming total credit for something if they didn't do it all by themselves.

Either way he still created Spider-Man and a number of other famous characters.

[DAVE]

Stan Lee and Will Eisner. I know it's not what you said, but Eisner created the art form. Without him, none of the others would have existed likely. But Lee/Kirby for your criteria.

Bro...I love Eisner as much as the next guy, but he didn't create the art form. He revolutionized it yes. As for the criteria of this list, I 'd put Eisner in the top 2 artists, but perhaps not creators. The Spirit isn't exactly on the same level as Marvel DC characters.

[WinstonWolf]

Dude the most important creators are:
1)Joe Segal and Jerry Shuster:Brought us Superman. All of the other people on this list would've unemployed.
2)Stan Lee/Jack Kirby. You credit Jack Kirby for his co-creations, but hold them against Stan? "Most important the Celistials"!? How about most important, the Fantastic Four?
3)Stan Lee/Steve Ditko- With Stan Lee Ditko created Spider-man and Dr.Strange. Without Lee, the Creeper. Which characters have made a bigger impact on the medium?
4)Bob Kane/Bill Finger: Batman
5) Marty Nodell- the over looked creator of the Green Lantern. With the Golden Age GL, there'd be no silver age GL, and arguably no Silver Age, period.
6) Len Wein/Dave Cockrum leading into Chirs Claremont and John Byrne-The first for their roles in creating Wolverine, the rest for all they did to elevate him and the X-Men into what they are today.
7)Joe Simon/Jack Kirby: Captain America
8)William Marston:Wonder Woman
9) CC Beck-Captain Marvel


It remains to be seen how much staying power Frank Millar's Elektra, Todd Mcfarlane's Spawn will have.

As popular as the Punisher is he's not in the same league as those other creations. Starlin, Michilinie Thomas are beloved for their writing, but I wouldn't put the Vision, Venom or Thanos in the same league as these guys either.


Oh yeah right, I forgot about him. Oh, and don't forget his creation of the lie detector (although not admisable in court.). Also, Frank Miller didn't really create Elektra. He based her off of the original version.

[Thudpucker]

Alan Moore.

Will Eisner is too depressing by far for me to ever care much for, and people like Lee and Kirby were just not that good. I'm sorry, but thier work is mostly unreadable.

Respect them as pioneers and people of vision, sure. Thank them for giving us the building blocks on which great comics are now built, definately. But put thier work side by side with some of those seen today and compare it solely on merit? It's just not that good.

The measure of a truely great work is wether it is as entertaining and inspiring today, for a brand new reader, as it was when it was originally created. Moore's work stands the test of time.

[Corey A.]

Stan Lee should be first, not only for how many he created, but also for the fact that the concepts behind them were strong enough to hold up for 40 years.

Jack Kirby is a solid #2.

Bingo

[A.Huerta]

Alan Moore.

Will Eisner is too depressing by far for me to ever care much for, and people like Lee and Kirby were just not that good. I'm sorry, but thier work is mostly unreadable.

Respect them as pioneers and people of vision, sure. Thank them for giving us the building blocks on which great comics are now built, definately. But put thier work side by side with some of those seen today and compare it solely on merit? It's just not that good.

The measure of a truely great work is wether it is as entertaining and inspiring today, for a brand new reader, as it was when it was originally created. Moore's work stands the test of time.

We're talking about who created the best and most famous characters.

[xyzzy]

We're talking about who created the best and most famous characters.

Well, I don't see how famous enters the equasion, but I'll also go with Moore. He takes it just for the ABC universe alone.

[Thudpucker]

Stan Lee should be first, not only for how many he created, but also for the fact that the concepts behind them were strong enough to hold up for 40 years.

Jack Kirby is a solid #2.

The characters they created are still being used by other creators today, true. But the actual stories they made? Archived and mostly forgotten, read as a curiosity sometimes by a few people.

There are easily 50 writers I would rather read a story from before I read a Stan Lee story. And I do like Kirby's art alot but there are also 50 artists I enjoy more than him, easily.

[Thudpucker]

We're talking about who created the best and most famous characters.

I didn't read the original post, I thought 'Who Is The All-Time BEST Comic Creator' would be about who creates the best comic book.

Why is it about who makes a better character for other people to use? That's kind of a lame topic.

[DAVE]

Oh yeah right, I forgot about him. Oh, and don't forget his creation of the lie detector (although not admisable in court.). Also, Frank Miller didn't really create Elektra. He based her off of the original version.
Uh...Frank Millar did create Elektra. He was inspired by the Sand Sariff, a Spirit femme fatale, but that doesn't mean he didn't create Elektra.
That's like saying that Warren Ellis didn't create the Midnighter because he was based on Batman.

[DAVE]

I thought 'Who Is The All-Time BEST Comic Creator' would be about who creates the best comic book.

Why is it about who makes a better character for other people to use?
Did you read the first post?

[A.Huerta]

I didn't read the original post, I thought 'Who Is The All-Time BEST Comic Creator' would be about who creates the best comic book.

Why is it about who makes a better character for other people to use? That's kind of a lame topic.


Ask WinstonWolf. His topic.

[Thudpucker]

Ask WinstonWolf. His topic.

Well, in that grand tradition I say we take his original concept and improve it then. Much like Stan Lee, WinstonWolf has an interesting idea but we can take it and change and improve it greatly.

Who is the real 'Best All-Time Comic Creator'? Who is the creator who has made the best comic issues ever put out there?

[DAVE]

Well, in that grand tradition I say we take his original concept and improve it then. Much like Stan Lee, WinstonWolf has an interesting idea but we can take it and change and improve it greatly.

Who is the real 'Best All-Time Comic Creator'? Who is the creator who has made the best comic issues ever put out there?

I think that would make a great other thread :)

[WinstonWolf]

Uh...Frank Millar did create Elektra. He was inspired by the Sand Sariff, a Spirit femme fatale, but that doesn't mean he didn't create Elektra.
That's like saying that Warren Ellis didn't create the Midnighter because he was based on Batman.

Electra is a very famous figure from Greek Mythology. Electra is also spelled ELEKTRA. There stories share some similarities.

[WinstonWolf]

I think that would make a great other thread :)

I actually think that I, or other posters have done that post already.

[DAVE]

Electra is a very famous figure from Greek Mythology. Electra is also spelled ELEKTRA. There stories share some similarities.
Yes Aggamemnon's daughter is a famous character in mythology, but Elektra from Marvel comics shares a dead greek dad and a name with her. That's it. To say that Miller didn't create the character is baffling.

[McAfee]

Why has nobody said Todd McFarlane???:mad:

:crazy:

[RebootedCorpse]

Yeah, gotta be Kirby.

[Dreg]

Stan. Kirby's more influencial as an artist rather than as a creator.

[Dannñ B]

Hmm. None of those guys.

[Dreg]

Why has nobody said Todd McFarlane???:mad:

:crazy:

The Family Guy dude?

[WinstonWolf]

I disagree about Kirby not creating importat characters. He created one of the most famous villians of all-time for gods sakes.

[Brad N.]

Rob Liefeld...thread closed.

[chess]

Why has nobody said Todd McFarlane???:mad:

:crazy:

He's no Lifield! Stop pretending he is!:scared:

[Donal DeLay]

Will Eisner.

If I need to explain why, then see me in Chicago next year, and bring a hammer.

[A.Huerta]

Will Eisner.

If I need to explain why, then see me in Chicago next year, and bring a hammer.


What characters did he create that beat Supes or Spidey?

[chess]

I am going to disagree with all of you.

If you want to talk quantity, we can talk Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. They produced an incredible amount of material in a short time.

The question was "Best comic creator"... If we talk best, we have a qualifier.

I think it could be argued that Jack Kirby and Stan Lee are the best.

I do think we could create stonger arguments for Frank Miller, Neal Adams, Alan Moore, John Byrne, Neil Gaimon, etc... We could also make arguments for consistent artists like Curt Swan, Gil Kane, John Romita, John Buscema, Chris Claremont, etc...

Certainly, Todd Mcfarlane changed the field on some level. I don't think he could be considered as "best" but maybe we could introduce him into the discussion.

Today is a renaissance for writers. Certainly, the writing today is on a higher level than it has been in the past. Trying to read some of the old comics can be painful.

[RebootedCorpse]

I was with you until...

Certainly, Todd Mcfarlane changed the field on some level. I don't think he could be considered as "best" but maybe we could introduce him into the discussion.
I had to jump off the trolly.

[Taxman]

Well, in that grand tradition I say we take his original concept and improve it then. :lol:

You may get my vote for Best Debater yet.

[John Drake]

Jack Kirby. Yes.

[Yannick_B]

What characters did he create that beat Supes or Spidey?

None, but he revolutionized the way comic book storytelling actually works which should count for bigger than inventing Spider-Man.

[Taxman]

I do think we could create stonger arguments for Frank Miller, Neal Adams, Alan Moore, John Byrne, Neil Gaimon, etc... On some of those guys, I am not sure they actually created many enduring chatacters.

[Donal DeLay]

What characters did he create that beat Supes or Spidey? So, you're judging "best" by who came up with the most iconic design for a character and the popularity of that character?

Personally, I measure greatness by their skill, influence, and overall work. NOT the fame of one design.

[Mister Mets]

I'd have to say the all-time best comic book creator is Stan Lee because of the quality of his best stories (Amazing Fantasy #15, Amazing Spider-Man #31-33, Fantastic 4 #48-51, Captain America #114-119.) He co-created a shitload of great characters, and is the reason Marvel's still kicking DC's ass in sales.

Will Eisner's a close second, because of his innovations in The Spirit, and his later graphic novels.

Jack Kirby's up there too, as one of the best storyteller's the industry's ever seen. I rank him lower than Stan Lee because...
1. Stan Lee co-created more great characters (Spider-Man, Dr Strange, etc) without Kirby than Kirby did without Lee (Captain America is awesome but no Spider-Man.)
2. I believe the soap opera elements Lee introduced to his comics were more important than Kirby's character designs/ exceptional artwork.

[Mister Mets]

And when I say creator, I don't mean writer, or storyteller, or director. I mean in terms of comic book creations. And I mean ones that they created originally. Not characters from literature or other outside sources that they brought into comics, like Sherlock Holmes or something. I'm talking about original, imaginative creations here. Sometimes there creations get screwed up under other writers, who don't write them as well. And sometimes some creations BECOME cool only, or primarily under other writers. And with some exceptions, there are no such things as bad characters, only poorly written ones, or poor writers who write them. But these are the best of the best.

.......................

Any others? Who did I miss? Who are your favorites?
Too many creators, man.
While the quality of their characters should be one measure of a great creator, other aspects should be judged (the quality of their best work, the new techniques they introduced, etc.)




Alan Moore.

Will Eisner is too depressing by far for me to ever care much for, and people like Lee and Kirby were just not that good. I'm sorry, but thier work is mostly unreadable.

Respect them as pioneers and people of vision, sure. Thank them for giving us the building blocks on which great comics are now built, definately. But put thier work side by side with some of those seen today and compare it solely on merit? It's just not that good.

The measure of a truely great work is wether it is as entertaining and inspiring today, for a brand new reader, as it was when it was originally created. Moore's work stands the test of time.
While I love the work of Alan moore, and believe he's the best writer in comics, I don't share your opinion on the quality of Stan Lee's work. I think his best work (given how prolific he was, I agree that he had a lot of clunkers) holds up to the best work of anyone else. You're free to disagree, but I don't think it's right to suggest that no one can appreciate his work anymore.



Alan Moore is probably one of the best creators for....
John Constantine
Rorschach (just the idea of a vigilante who is supercompetent and apeshit insane.)
The other great characters in Watchmen (The Comedian, Doc Manhattan, and Ozydamius especially).
His take on the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (in many cases, vastly different than the original books.)
His other ABC creations.
Hell, his 1963 creations (on par with say- Typhoid Mary.)

[diggy]

Overal I'll say Stan Lee. Did he have help yeah, but he was one half of all of Marvels core characters except Captain America. If he wasn't involved Marvel would've never blown up the it has, and what would that me to today's creators. His idea of bringing real life charater elements to super heroes was probably the most influential thing in the mediums history. Stan Lee's collabrative creations have had more influence over people than anybody else in the medium's history. Will Eisner would be second and very close to first because of his pioneering with out him Stan could've never happened. Third is Kirby just because he took what Eisner did with sequential story telling raised it to the next level, and he had a major hand in most of Marvel's popular characters.
Also, why is anyone actually mentioning Todd McFarlane in this post? Spawn is mediocre at best, and that's all he really created. He may have had a hand in Venom's design, but come all it is, is Spidey's black costume with a scary face.

[chess]

Concerning the Mcfarlane introduction
I was with you until...

I had to jump off the trolly.

Todd McFarlane brought people back to comics. When Spider-man came out (gold edition, silver edition, blue edition, etc....) people who normally were not associated with comics got involved. McFarlane was the most successful of the Image guys and attracted top flight writers and artists to help him.

It could be argued (and I think successfully) that the excitement around McFarlane and to a lesser extent the other Image fathers caused the speculation boom that led to the comics crash that we still have yet to recover. Marvel's bankruptcy could also have ties to Todd.

I never bought Spawn but I am aware of his work (from Infinity, Inc. on). For a person who is "out of comics", he still grabs headlines today (and I mean national headlines).

I will agree that he should not be considered "the greatest ever" but give the person some kudoos for "exciting the industry".

[mario]

Ub Iwerks and Walt Disney

[chess]

Quote:
Originally Posted by chess
I do think we could create stonger arguments for Frank Miller, Neal Adams, Alan Moore, John Byrne, Neil Gaimon, etc...

On some of those guys, I am not sure they actually created many enduring chatacters.

Was the question about "enduring characters" or was the question concerning "All-Time Best Comic Creator"?

For example: Take Neil Adams. Neil defined the look of comics and "realism" for a generation. In fact, his work and designs are still being used today.

Take Frank Miller: Frank changed comics with his story telling. Whether you are talking Daredevil, "Dark Knight", Wolverine, or Sin City... He created a mood that is still used today.

John Byrne was a master at taking concepts and redefining them for the generation. Most still consider his X-Men and Fanstastic Four runs the defining runs of the series. He, above all people, was picked by DC to update Superman.

What is the greatest comic book writer of all time? How can you argue against Alan Moore? Where do you start? (Alan would be my vote for "All-Time BEST Comic Creator").

If you argue for Alan Moore, you could argue for Neil Gaimon. Why? Alan may have started the Vertigo feel but Neil moved a super hero driven market to more mature themes and stories. He brough fantasy back to the medium.

The argument that comics stopped or should be defined by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby is wrong. Its like saying that the car should be defined by Henry Ford and the argument should stop.

[WinstonWolf]

Rob Liefeld...thread closed.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Liefeld. He's number 1. Youngblood beats all other characters. Case closed:).

[WinstonWolf]

Today is a renaissance for writers. Certainly, the writing today is on a higher level than it has been in the past. Trying to read some of the old comics can be painful.

I disgree with this. I don't think the writing today is at the absolute peak of quality. I don't think anybody could beat Alan Moore at the top of his game, or Frank Miller in the 80s-90s. As for reading older comics, well, yeah sometimes. But it really depends on which comic you read. If you read a comic book from today in 10-20 years, it's guaranteed that you'll think the same thing about at least some of them.

[WinstonWolf]

So, you're judging "best" by who came up with the most iconic design for a character and the popularity of that character?

Personally, I measure greatness by their skill, influence, and overall work. NOT the fame of one design.

As I said before, sometimes other writers can write the characters better than the creator, and sometimes they screw the characters up. Plenty of creators have "revamped" characters that might have resulted in better renditions for the character, and some creators might have made a character that nobody really cared about popular.

[WinstonWolf]

I'd have to say the all-time best comic book creator is Stan Lee because of the quality of his best stories (Amazing Fantasy #15, Amazing Spider-Man #31-33, Fantastic 4 #48-51, Captain America #114-119.) He co-created a shitload of great characters, and is the reason Marvel's still kicking DC's ass in sales.

Jack Kirby's up there too, as one of the best storyteller's the industry's ever seen. I rank him lower than Stan Lee because...
1. Stan Lee co-created more great characters (Spider-Man, Dr Strange, etc) without Kirby than Kirby did without Lee (Captain America is awesome but no Spider-Man.)

2. I believe the soap opera elements Lee introduced to his comics were more important than Kirby's character designs/ exceptional artwork.

Is Marvel really kicking Dcs ass in sales? I heard that All-Star Superman was the best selling title last year or so. I thought that DC sells better in the graphic novel department as well. And Stan created some of his characters based on DC ones didn't he?

Also, I disagree. I think Stan definetely created more great ones with Kirby. Galactus, Doctor Doom, the Silver Surfer, Magneto, the Inhumans. Kirby definetely had an imagination when it came to cosmic\grandiose comics.

[WinstonWolf]

And speaking of Macfarlane, I wonder what would happen if he came back to comics these days. Joe Q seems to think it would benefit the industry. Would it? Would anything change?

[Icaruss]

Stan Lee, I'd say. He just created a whole bunch of characters, in such a short period of time, and all by himself (the concepts, I mean, the artists did the rest), and they still hold up till today, no matter which medium they are used in. Jack Kirby was also a top-notch creator, and some would argue that his books were better written than Stan's, but his creations are not as iconic, or ever-lasting as Lee's were. Eisner wasn't much of a creator if you ask me. I mean, you got the Spirit... and nothing else. He was, though, one of the finest storytellers the medium has ever seen. Much better than Lee, and Kirby. He pushed the boundaries of the medium long before Moore, Miller, and Claremont (just think about his early X-Men days, kids, just focus on that), Waid, Busiek, Bendis, Millar, Ellis, and all of those other British-guys-who-like-to-experiment came along.

However, I think Joe Quesada's been the best thing that's happened to Marvel in a long time. He's not a creator, though. Just a manager.

[WinstonWolf]

I still think it's debatable that Stan came up with the concepts for a lot of those characters all by his lonesome.

[Craig C]

And when I say creator, I don't mean writer, or storyteller, or director. I mean in terms of comic book creations. And I mean ones that they created originally. Not characters from literature or other outside sources that they brought into comics, like Sherlock Holmes or something. I'm talking about original, imaginative creations here. Sometimes there creations get screwed up under other writers, who don't write them as well. And sometimes some creations BECOME cool only, or primarily under other writers. And with some exceptions, there are no such things as bad characters, only poorly written ones, or poor writers who write them. But these are the best of the best.

I think it would have to be Jack Kirby. He created Darkseid, one of the all-time classic villians, and maybe the biggest villian of the DC Universe, and Mr. Miracle. He co-created Galactus. He created the Eternals. And most importantly, he created the Celestials, who are just cooler beyond words. They need to be used more (the Celestials I mean.). Some other great or important creators:

He also co created Captain America.

#Jim Starlin- Created Thanos, Marvels #1 or 2 villian. He also created Drax, the classic Superman villian Mongul for DC, the KG Beast, and a bunch of other big and cool cosmic beings.

#Len Wein- Like Wolverines creator wouldn't make the list. Sheesh.

You left out Swamp thing He created him too you know.

#Gerry Conway- He created the Punisher. AND he created Killer Croc, one of the coolest Batman villians (at least depending on how he's written.).

#David Michelinie- Created the Taskmaster, Carnage, and Venom. And I think some more guys.

# Chris Claremont- Created a NUMBER of important and classic characters for the X-Men Universe and the Marvel Universe proper.

# Steve Ditko- For the objectivist inspired the Question , if nothing else. If you like philosophy, or philosophical questions or characters like me, you'll like this guy. He's cool.

# Marv Wolfman- Bullseye and Deathstroke the Terminator are enough to do the trick.

Tomb of Dracula was another that he had a hand in and you left out Jericho from the Teen Titan's and Terra.

#Frank Miller- Marv from Sin City is cool enough. And Stick from Daredevil. Nuke from the classic Born Again arc, also appears to be making a comeback lately.

# Roy Thomas- For Ultron and the Vision, if nothing else. And the Grim Reaper. I love the Reaper, and if I were writing the Avengers, he would definetely show up.

# Denny O'Neal- He created a bunch of good ones.

Ra's alGhul being one of them.

#Todd Mcfarlane- For Spawn, if nothing else.

#Stan Lee- IF he created the Marvel Universe. It seems there are conflicting stories over who is responsible for what characters.

# Whoever created Batman and all of the primary Batman villians.

Bob Kane The batman would be upset with you for forgetting that.

#Ann Nocenti- Her creations were very;;;creative. Typhoid Mary, Blackheart, Mojo, Spiral. Interesting and ecleptic mix.

Any others? Who did I miss? Who are your favorites?


not a bad list though.

[Wastrel]

thats a difficult one. none of my choices would be american though.

[WinstonWolf]

not a bad list though.

Thanks, but I thought Bill Finger created most of the Batman mythos.

[Craig C]

Thanks, but I thought Bill Finger created most of the Batman mythos.


I use to have Kane's autobiography Batman and me unfortunately the basement apartment that I was living in at the time got flooded and those were one of the books that got damaged so I'm not for sure about that one.

[WinstonWolf]

Oh wait, you know what? I can't believe I forgot. It's so obvious. The number 1 creator is Gardner Fox. He created a lot of DC characters that are classic. He's like the Stan Lee of the DC Universe. Only people don't claim that they helped him create the characters he's credited with. And he probably wasn't as wise or funny or cool as Stan.

[andrew french]

charles schultz!

or.. Will Eisner.

[Craig C]

Oh wait, you know what? I can't believe I forgot. It's so obvious. The number 1 creator is Gardner Fox. He created a lot of DC characters that are classic. He's like the Stan Lee of the DC Universe. Only people don't claim that they helped him create the characters he's credited with. And he probably wasn't as wise or funny or cool as Stan.


But he is very well respected , and what about Carmine Infantino?

[chess]

I disgree with this. I don't think the writing today is at the absolute peak of quality. I don't think anybody could beat Alan Moore at the top of his game, or Frank Miller in the 80s-90s. As for reading older comics, well, yeah sometimes. But it really depends on which comic you read. If you read a comic book from today in 10-20 years, it's guaranteed that you'll think the same thing about at least some of them.

Fair criticism. I think I was referring to reading many of the Essential and Showcase books and ,in particular, the 1970's..

When I bough Essential Marvel Team Up, I said to myself... "This is the bottom of comics".

[chess]

I am going to throw in Jim Shooter.

[Mister Mets]

I disgree with this. I don't think the writing today is at the absolute peak of quality. I don't think anybody could beat Alan Moore at the top of his game, or Frank Miller in the 80s-90s. As for reading older comics, well, yeah sometimes. But it really depends on which comic you read. If you read a comic book from today in 10-20 years, it's guaranteed that you'll think the same thing about at least some of them.
I'll sadly agree with you. A slight majority of my absolute favorite comic books (Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns, Batman: Year One, Daredevil: Born Again, Days of Future Past, Maus, Dark Phoenix saga, The Kid Who Collected Spider-Man, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, The Killing Joke, God Loves Man Kills, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing) are from the 80s. Although there has been some recent work on par with those (Barry Ween: Monkey Tales, The Ultimates, Ultimates 2, All-Star Superman, Pedro & Me.)



Concerning the Mcfarlane introduction

Todd McFarlane brought people back to comics. When Spider-man came out (gold edition, silver edition, blue edition, etc....) people who normally were not associated with comics got involved. McFarlane was the most successful of the Image guys and attracted top flight writers and artists to help him.

It could be argued (and I think successfully) that the excitement around McFarlane and to a lesser extent the other Image fathers caused the speculation boom that led to the comics crash that we still have yet to recover. Marvel's bankruptcy could also have ties to Todd.

I never bought Spawn but I am aware of his work (from Infinity, Inc. on). For a person who is "out of comics", he still grabs headlines today (and I mean national headlines).

I will agree that he should not be considered "the greatest ever" but give the person some kudoos for "exciting the industry".
I doubt Mcfarlane bought more people to the industry than someone like CC Beck, whose Captain Marvel sold several million copies an issue at its peak.

[Mister Mets]

Is Marvel really kicking Dcs ass in sales? I heard that All-Star Superman was the best selling title last year or so. I thought that DC sells better in the graphic novel department as well. And Stan created some of his characters based on DC ones didn't he?

Also, I disagree. I think Stan definetely created more great ones with Kirby. Galactus, Doctor Doom, the Silver Surfer, Magneto, the Inhumans. Kirby definetely had an imagination when it came to cosmic\grandiose comics.

All-Star Batman & Robin #1 was the best-selling title last year, but Marvel generally does better in total sales. The one month DC did better in sales it was thanks to a combination of the conclusion of Civil War, the first four issues of 52 (with an incredible refund policy), and two issues of Superman/ Batman.

My original statement was that Stan Lee created more great ones with Jack Kirby than Jack Kirby created without Lee. Whether or not the characters Lee/ Kirby co-created are better than the characters Lee created with other artist is besides the point. I was comparing everyone introduced in Lee's Spider-Man tales, Doctor Strange tales, Daredevil books, Falcon, etc to the characters Kirby cocreated with others- Captain America, the Fourth World franchise, etc.

The "Just imagine Stan lee creating the DC Universe" did not result in any characters other creators have wanted to use again, so I doubt it helped DC in the great character count. Although it would be cool if they were used in some alternate reality story.


I still think it's debatable that Stan came up with the concepts for a lot of those characters all by his lonesome.
That is true. Although Stan lee definitely came up with the personalities, which were important in setting Marvel apart from DC. The important thing about Spider-Man wasn't his powers (awesome as they are), but his secret identity of a fairly ordinary teenager. The powers of the Fantastic 4 weren't as important as their family dynamic.

[WinstonWolf]

Fair criticism. I think I was referring to reading many of the Essential and Showcase books and ,in particular, the 1970's..

When I bough Essential Marvel Team Up, I said to myself... "This is the bottom of comics".

They get better once Claremont takes over. Issue #100 is a classic.

[WinstonWolf]

I'll sadly agree with you. A slight majority of my absolute favorite comic books (Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns, Batman: Year One, Daredevil: Born Again, Days of Future Past, Maus, Dark Phoenix saga, The Kid Who Collected Spider-Man, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, The Killing Joke, God Loves Man Kills, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing) are from the 80s. Although there has been some recent work on par with those (Barry Ween: Monkey Tales, The Ultimates, Ultimates 2, All-Star Superman, Pedro & Me.)

I agree. When it comes to comics (and movies) older is usually better.


I doubt Mcfarlane bought more people to the industry than someone like CC Beck, whose Captain Marvel sold several million copies an issue at its peak.

No way. Your'e shitting me.

[WinstonWolf]

All-Star Batman & Robin #1 was the best-selling title last year, but Marvel generally does better in total sales. The one month DC did better in sales it was thanks to a combination of the conclusion of Civil War, the first four issues of 52 (with an incredible refund policy), and two issues of Superman/ Batman.

Civil War was DC? Is it over? I do think Marvel does better in sales, but I definetely saw some months that DC was up in terms of sales.


My original statement was that Stan Lee created more great ones with Jack Kirby than Jack Kirby created without Lee. Whether or not the characters Lee/ Kirby co-created are better than the characters Lee created with other artist is besides the point. I was comparing everyone introduced in Lee's Spider-Man tales, Doctor Strange tales, Daredevil books, Falcon, etc to the characters Kirby cocreated with others- Captain America, the Fourth World franchise, etc.

Captain America is important. Spider-Man is better though, yes. And I don't think Kirby had any cocreators when he created any of his characters for DC. I think he was influenced by other sources when he created the New Gods, but he didn't have any help or anything creating them.


The "Just imagine Stan lee creating the DC Universe" did not result in any characters other creators have wanted to use again, so I doubt it helped DC in the great character count. Although it would be cool if they were used in some alternate reality story.


Um, weren't the characters all known characters that Stan got to work with? I thought he only worked with Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. Did he create any new characters when he did the creating the DC Universe?




That is true. Although Stan lee definitely came up with the personalities, which were important in setting Marvel apart from DC. The important thing about Spider-Man wasn't his powers (awesome as they are), but his secret identity of a fairly ordinary teenager. The powers of the Fantastic 4 weren't as important as their family dynamic.


Yeah, and it's amazing how many characters are just like Spider-Man. It seems like there's a little bit of him in every creation lately.

[WinstonWolf]

Oh wait, you know who else I forgot? Bill Mantlo. I remember Shooter saying that he was valuable to Marvel because he kept on creating characters for them. He created Cloak and Dagger, the U-Foes, um, I know he created a bunch more characters. He didn't create the Black Cat, but he did pretty much define her and start the Peter\Black Cat romance. Roger Stern also deserves to get props for creating the Hobgoblin, the female Captain Marvel, now Photon, and The Kid who Collects Spider-Man kid.

[Mister Mets]

I came across this again looking for posts on Absolute Dark Knight. An....




No way. Your'e shitting me.

I thought it was common knowledge that Captain Marvel outsold Superman in the 1940s.
http://comicbookads.leafpublishing.com/hall-of-covers/cover-display2-page2.htm

One relevant quote.
Captain Marvel had received a self-titled comic book, Captain Marvel's Adventures, which had a circulation that reached 1.3 million copies per month.



Oh wait, you know who else I forgot? Bill Mantlo. I remember Shooter saying that he was valuable to Marvel because he kept on creating characters for them. He created Cloak and Dagger, the U-Foes, um, I know he created a bunch more characters. He didn't create the Black Cat, but he did pretty much define her and start the Peter\Black Cat romance. Roger Stern also deserves to get props for creating the Hobgoblin, the female Captain Marvel, now Photon, and The Kid who Collects Spider-Man kid.
I thought Roger Stern set up the Spider-Man/ Black Cat partnership/ romance in Amazing Spider-MAn #226-227.

[Matt O'Keefe]

Gotta go Eisner

The growth of comics started with Eisner, was furthered by Stan and Jack, and advanced even more with Moore and Miller

[Generic Poster]

Bro...I love Eisner as much as the next guy, but he didn't create the art form. He revolutionized it yes. As for the criteria of this list, I 'd put Eisner in the top 2 artists, but perhaps not creators. The Spirit isn't exactly on the same level as Marvel DC characters.

Citizen Kane isn't exactly up there with Titanic, either.

[Blake Sims]

Eisner. Hands down. He invented so many story telling techniques, his influence on the comics industry is unmatched.

[modungo]

Design work from the artists. Making characters like Spider-Man, Hulk etc.. is ALL STan Lee.

I don't even know where to begin with that statement. STAN LEE wouldn't even agree with that statement.

[Tony Bang]

George Herriman or Kirby or E.C Segar or Eisner or Osamu Tezuka.

All these all are so good it's hard to narrow it down.