All-Star Batman & Robin.

[Hate_Prime]

I don't get it.

[Icaruss]

It's a parody.

:roll:

[Donal DeLay]

It's not a parody.

It's good. Misunderstood, and once the run is collected and read in one-sitting, it'll be called brilliant.

[Hate_Prime]

Is Bruce Wayne even Batman? Bruce was clean shaven and Batman has stubble.

Also, Bats is a homicidal maniac complete with the maniacal laugh right? Subduing the baddy in the circus with a batarang, albeit a poisoned batarang, doesn't make sense. Bats might as well use guns and shot the guy in the face.

Am I supposed to like this book? So far I don't even like the main character and I thought that's pretty much impossible considering who it is (Edit: and considering who is writtng it, who pretty much wrote the revised handbook for how to make this character very very interesting! Am I dense? Goddamn holy hell indeed.)

[SCOURGE]

It is a worthtless POS. It is worse than the original (I can't believe that I have to even say this) Clone Saga.

[Rado]

It is a worthtless POS. It is worse than the original (I can't believe that I have to even say this) Clone Saga.

What's the connection?

[Jim.]

I gave up on it on issue three I think that was around '99....did issue five come out yet?

[Yannick_B]

Its pretty good. Frank Miller is getting the best out of Jim Lee's whole career.

[JackBauer]

I gave up on it on issue three I think that was around '99....did issue five come out yet?

It will come out at the end of November. Now talk about Civil War being late.:D

[tim nixon]

I don't get it.

personally, i think its told from robin's point of view, and the batman is one crazy sob to any 12(ish) year old kid...

i dont think bats is actually acting that way, its what robin sees. i personally love it, and jim's art is awesome.

[Donal DeLay]

personally, i think its told from robin's point of view, and the batman is one crazy sob to any 12(ish) year old kid...

i dont think bats is actually acting that way, its what robin sees. i personally love it, and jim's art is awesome.

It IS being told from Robin's perspective a lot. It's also in the second year where Batman is full of himself, has become cocky, and forgot his purpose.

Robin is going to bring him back to reality and keep him level-headed. By the end of the storyline you'll see the Batman everyone initially wanted.

Rookie. Egotistical. Focused.

It's the three stages of "fame" - You see it in comics a lot, too.

That's just where I see it headed. Who knows, really?

[Hate_Prime]

They better get on with it then. It's really a crappy starting point.

[Masculine Todd]

Okay, I know I've received some snarkyness for expressing what Miller was going for here, and the fact that it's quite obvious from reading the book, what the hell, I'll restate it anyway:

All Star Batman and Robin is Frank Miller's commentary on the grim-'n-gritty themes in mainstream comics that have become more prevalent in the medium over the past fifteen years or so. It's done in a tongue-in-cheek style, with the over-the-top, excessive nature being meant to both disturb and foster in an air of jest. The author has even stated, once to me personally at a signing, that this is what he was going for.

It's also just plain fun pulp comics. It's terrorist Batman, acting as he would in Frank Miller's more hardboiled comics such as Sin City. Also, it truly drives home just how emotionally disconnected and disturbed the traumatic events of Bruce Wayne's parent's deaths left him. It places this extremely engaging paradox that the man can be so disciplined in mind and body, and so brilliant, yet his emotions are so irrational and misguided.

I have absolutely loved the first four issues and will be aboard this title until it (someday) ends.

Granted, I can empathize with the criticism toward it. Yes, this surely shouldn't have been an All Star title, which is meant to embrace the most iconic parts of the characters and craft timeless stories from them that can be accessible to anyone. This is a much more experimental story that is too harsh and abstract for the purposes of an All Star line. I too also hate how late the book is. However, between Frank Miller co-directing and writing Sin City 2, Batman: Holy Terror, and this, and Jim Lee overseeing the recent Wildstorm reboot and penciling both this and Wildcats, it's completely understandable and I will be there for the whole ride.

[V-Man]

It's not a parody.

It's good. Misunderstood, and once the run is collected and read in one-sitting, it'll be called brilliant.

AGREED!

[Yannick_B]

Okay, I know I've received some snarkyness for expressing what Miller was going for here, and the fact that it's quite obvious from reading the book, what the hell, I'll restate it anyway:

All Star Batman and Robin is Frank Miller's commentary on the grim-'n-gritty themes in mainstream comics that have become more prevalent in the medium over the past fifteen years or so. It's done in a tongue-in-cheek style, with the over-the-top, excessive nature being meant to both disturb and foster in an air of jest. The author has even stated, once to me personally at a signing, that this is what he was going for.

It's also just plain fun pulp comics. It's terrorist Batman, acting as he would in Frank Miller's more hardboiled comics such as Sin City. Also, it truly drives home just how emotionally disconnected and disturbed the traumatic events of Bruce Wayne's parent's deaths left him. It places this extremely engaging paradox that the man can be so disciplined in mind and body, and so brilliant, yet his emotions are so irrational and misguided.

I have absolutely loved the first four issues and will be aboard this title until it (someday) ends.

Granted, I can empathize with the criticism toward it. Yes, this surely shouldn't have been an All Star title, which is meant to embrace the most iconic parts of the characters and craft timeless stories from them that can be accessible to anyone. This is a much more experimental story that is too harsh and abstract for the purposes of an All Star line. I too also hate how late the book is. However, between Frank Miller co-directing and writing Sin City 2, Batman: Holy Terror, and this, and Jim Lee overseeing the recent Wildstorm reboot and penciling both this and Wildcats, it's completely understandable and I will be there for the whole ride.

This might be the single best analysis of the book so far. Completely summed up how I feel about it.

[Natty P]

I thinkn I read somewhere that this takes place in the Dark Knight Universe, therefore it's a prequel to DKR. I'm interested to read this when the trade comes out to see the fuss for myself.

[Jim.]

I might be intrested in a cheap trade that collects the WHOLE thing I don't want to see some hardcover that collects the first four issues(coughJusticecough).

[Hate_Prime]

Somebody should create a comic that's a commentary about comics that are commentaries. It would be totally deep and meaningful and will separate the true comics connoisseur from the average dirtbag fanboy. The story of course will blow but as long as the message is told it will hailed as the greatest thing ever since that comic that was a commentary about impractical superhero poses at inopportune moments.

[Kefky]

It's a senile old man's pathetic attempt at being "cool" and "hardcore".

Good for laughs, though.

[A.Huerta]

It's a senile old man's pathetic attempt at being "cool" and "hardcore".


Probably the best description of the book.

[King of Mars]

It's a senile old man's pathetic attempt at being "cool" and "hardcore".

Good for laughs, though.Again, the irony inherent in you calling someone out for for trying to be "hardcore" and "cool" is lost on you.

"I'll show Miller what hardcore is all about. I'll be the guy who 'tells it like it is' on a messageboard. Yeah!"

Good for laughs, though. Keep on keepin' on.

:lol:

[Kefky]

Again, the irony inherent in you calling someone out for for trying to be "hardcore" and "cool" is lost on you.

"I'll show Miller what hardcore is all about. I'll be the guy who 'tells it like it is' on a messageboard. Yeah!"

Good for laughs, though. Keep on keepin' on.

:lol:

.....yes. I don't understand, but yes.

[RickLM]

It's not a parody.

It's good. Misunderstood, and once the run is collected and read in one-sitting, it'll be called brilliant.


On the Bizzaro planet, maybe.

[Hawkdevil]

So...when has a batman book got people talking as much as this one has?

Dark Knight Strikes Again? Hush? Dark Knight Returns? Year One?


;)

[Kefky]

So...when has a batman book got people talking as much as this one has?

Dark Knight Strikes Again? Hush? Dark Knight Returns? Year One?


;)

I'm sure people will even forget it exists at the rate it comes out.

[Hawkdevil]

I'm sure people will even forget it exists at the rate it comes out.

Hasn't stopped them talking yet this year.

[Hate_Prime]

Hasn't stopped them talking yet this year.

So what?

[Hawkdevil]

So what?

...so what makes anyone think that it suddently WILL?

[Hate_Prime]

...so what makes anyone think that it suddently WILL?

Think that it suddenly WILL what?

[Hawkdevil]

Think that it suddenly WILL what?

Haha, just read up a couple posts. Why respond if you didn't know what was going on?

[Hate_Prime]

Haha, just read up a couple posts. Why respond if you didn't know what was going on?

If I knew what you are talking about I wouldn't be asking.

[Hawkdevil]

If I knew what you are talking about I wouldn't be asking.

Ugh. Im getting confused here...I was saying that so many people think this series is so pointless, but it's Frank Miller and Jim Lee doing something that's got everyone talking about it. Just like they always have. Kefky said that people will forget about it because of the schedule and I said they wouldn't, because the schedule has been this sparse through the whole run and it hasn't dissuaded buzz.

Then me and you started arguing because we didn't know what each other were talking about. :sad:

[Hate_Prime]

Ugh. Im getting confused here...I was saying that so many people think this series is so pointless, but it's Frank Miller and Jim Lee doing something that's got everyone talking about it. Just like they always have. Kefky said that people will forget about it because of the schedule and I said they wouldn't, because the schedule has been this sparse through the whole run and it hasn't dissuaded buzz.

Then me and you started arguing because we didn't know what each other were talking about. :sad:

So what?

[Hawkdevil]

So what?

:surrend:

touche, Hate_Prime, touche.

[A.Huerta]

hoohaw

[Hate_Prime]

:surrend:

touche, Hate_Prime, touche.

*bows*

[Masculine Todd]

Probably the best description of the book.

I think mine is a bit more comprehensive and less bias.

[King of Mars]

The anti-ASB&R furor this book has caused is an embarassing condemnation of the fanboy nation. I'm not claiming that it's the greatest book that's ever been published, but the fact that so many fans are inclined to aim vitriol at the book and its author tells me they're either sheep who are eager to bash something/someone it's cool to hate or they really suck at comprehending any story that isn't spoonfed to them. Either way...embarassing.

Now someone will chime in with, "Maybe we just don't like bad comics."

Yeah, yeah...shut the hell up, you simple-minded, cliche spewing toolbag.

[Smokinblues]

The anti-ASB&R furor this book has caused is an embarassing condemnation of the fanboy nation. I'm not claiming that it's the greatest book that's ever been published, but the fact that so many fans are inclined to aim vitriol at the book and its author tells me they're either sheep who are eager to bash something/someone it's cool to hate or they really suck at comprehending any story that isn't spoonfed to them. Either way...embarassing.

Now someone will chime in with, "Maybe we just don't like bad comics."

Yeah, yeah...shut the hell up, you simple-minded, cliche spewing toolbag.

not much patience for people who disagree with you, eh?

[A.Huerta]

The anti-ASB&R furor this book has caused is an embarassing condemnation of the fanboy nation. I'm not claiming that it's the greatest book that's ever been published, but the fact that so many fans are inclined to aim vitriol at the book and its author tells me they're either sheep who are eager to bash something/someone it's cool to hate or they really suck at comprehending any story that isn't spoonfed to them. Either way...embarassing.

Now someone will chime in with, "Maybe we just don't like bad comics."

Yeah, yeah...shut the hell up, you simple-minded, cliche spewing toolbag.


It's still boring. 3 or 4 issues in the Batmobile over a 8 month whatever period is ridiculous.

[Yannick_B]

except its intercut with a whole bunch of action scenes, like the Black Canary stuff or whatever.
Reading people, its like the entire book is just the two characters in the batmobile and its not the case.

[King of Mars]

not much patience for people who disagree with you, eh?
Plenty of patience if they're interested in an objective discussion, rather than just spewing fanboy cliches and vitriol.

[Icaruss]

The anti-ASB&R furor this book has caused is an embarassing condemnation of the fanboy nation. I'm not claiming that it's the greatest book that's ever been published, but the fact that so many fans are inclined to aim vitriol at the book and its author tells me they're either sheep who are eager to bash something/someone it's cool to hate or they really suck at comprehending any story that isn't spoonfed to them. Either way...embarassing.

Now someone will chime in with, "Maybe we just don't like bad comics."

Yeah, yeah...shut the hell up, you simple-minded, cliche spewing toolbag.

But... Maybe we just don't like bad comics.

[Thomas Mauer]

Are Vicki Vale's and Black Canary's T&A shots also from Robin's perspective? :lol:

[A.Huerta]

Are Vicki Vale's and Black Canary's T&A shots also from Robin's perspective? :lol:


Dont forget Supes crushing a milk carton with Robins face on it, even tho he's only been missing for a couple of hours.

[Thomas Mauer]

You've got to admit, though: Superman is a dick. :p

[A.Huerta]

You've got to admit, though: Superman is a dick. :p


A dick who crushes milk cartons. :lol:

[Thomas Mauer]

I bet if they'd had missing persons photos on milk cartons in the 60s, there would have been a Jimmy Olsen comic where Supes did just that.

[Hate_Prime]

The anti-ASB&R furor this book has caused is an embarassing condemnation of the fanboy nation. I'm not claiming that it's the greatest book that's ever been published, but the fact that so many fans are inclined to aim vitriol at the book and its author tells me they're either sheep who are eager to bash something/someone it's cool to hate or they really suck at comprehending any story that isn't spoonfed to them. Either way...embarassing.

Now someone will chime in with, "Maybe we just don't like bad comics."

Yeah, yeah...shut the hell up, you simple-minded, cliche spewing toolbag.

So when is it okay to dislike a comic?

When actually less people dislike it? Is it okay to dislike it then?

Or maybe if nobody uses any, what you would consider, cliches ever? Regardless if they apply or not?

What about if the comic "spoonfeeds" the story, is it then perfectly reasonable to dislike the comic?

I mean, I wasn't aware of all these rules and parameters for when it's okay to like or dislike comic books. I just read All-Star Batman & Robin so I'm new to this, were these parameters created between the second & third issues or something?

Or maybe the parameters have always existed and I'm just too stupid to notice they exist. I've thoroughly enjoyed deep and complex stories before, so maybe All-Star Batman & Robin is so deep that it's too much for my poor little brain to comprehend and I'm not as smart as I thought I was. Shit, that must be it. All-Star Batman & Robin is the deepest story ever, so many layers an symbolism, and I'm too dumb to enjoy it.

No wait, since apparently the story isn't "spoonfed" to me, it's wrong to not like it. I should say that I'm enjoying ASB&R (thats the appropriate designation for the smart fans right?). So uh, I goddamn love this comic.

[Ryan Elliott]

It IS being told from Robin's perspective a lot. It's also in the second year where Batman is full of himself, has become cocky, and forgot his purpose.

Robin is going to bring him back to reality and keep him level-headed. By the end of the storyline you'll see the Batman everyone initially wanted.

Rookie. Egotistical. Focused.

It's the three stages of "fame" - You see it in comics a lot, too.

That's just where I see it headed. Who knows, really?



Yes.

[Ryan Elliott]

Okay, I know I've received some snarkyness for expressing what Miller was going for here, and the fact that it's quite obvious from reading the book, what the hell, I'll restate it anyway:

All Star Batman and Robin is Frank Miller's commentary on the grim-'n-gritty themes in mainstream comics that have become more prevalent in the medium over the past fifteen years or so. It's done in a tongue-in-cheek style, with the over-the-top, excessive nature being meant to both disturb and foster in an air of jest. The author has even stated, once to me personally at a signing, that this is what he was going for.

It's also just plain fun pulp comics. It's terrorist Batman, acting as he would in Frank Miller's more hardboiled comics such as Sin City. Also, it truly drives home just how emotionally disconnected and disturbed the traumatic events of Bruce Wayne's parent's deaths left him. It places this extremely engaging paradox that the man can be so disciplined in mind and body, and so brilliant, yet his emotions are so irrational and misguided.

I have absolutely loved the first four issues and will be aboard this title until it (someday) ends.

Granted, I can empathize with the criticism toward it. Yes, this surely shouldn't have been an All Star title, which is meant to embrace the most iconic parts of the characters and craft timeless stories from them that can be accessible to anyone. This is a much more experimental story that is too harsh and abstract for the purposes of an All Star line. I too also hate how late the book is. However, between Frank Miller co-directing and writing Sin City 2, Batman: Holy Terror, and this, and Jim Lee overseeing the recent Wildstorm reboot and penciling both this and Wildcats, it's completely understandable and I will be there for the whole ride.


And yes.

[Donal DeLay]

I too also hate how late the book is. However, between Frank Miller co-directing and writing Sin City 2, Batman: Holy Terror, and this, and Jim Lee overseeing the recent Wildstorm reboot and penciling both this and Wildcats, it's completely understandable No.

If their families diedm it'd be understandable. If they suffered a natural disaster it'd be understandable. If they had a tummy ache it'd be understandable.

Taking on more work at the cost of other work is not understandable. It's avoidable and unprofessional.

IF it's their fault.

[RickLM]

Okay, I know I've received some snarkyness for expressing what Miller was going for here, and the fact that it's quite obvious from reading the book, what the hell, I'll restate it anyway:

All Star Batman and Robin is Frank Miller's commentary on the grim-'n-gritty themes in mainstream comics that have become more prevalent in the medium over the past fifteen years or so. It's done in a tongue-in-cheek style, with the over-the-top, excessive nature being meant to both disturb and foster in an air of jest. The author has even stated, once to me personally at a signing, that this is what he was going for.

It's also just plain fun pulp comics. It's terrorist Batman, acting as he would in Frank Miller's more hardboiled comics such as Sin City. Also, it truly drives home just how emotionally disconnected and disturbed the traumatic events of Bruce Wayne's parent's deaths left him. It places this extremely engaging paradox that the man can be so disciplined in mind and body, and so brilliant, yet his emotions are so irrational and misguided.

I have absolutely loved the first four issues and will be aboard this title until it (someday) ends.

Granted, I can empathize with the criticism toward it. Yes, this surely shouldn't have been an All Star title, which is meant to embrace the most iconic parts of the characters and craft timeless stories from them that can be accessible to anyone. This is a much more experimental story that is too harsh and abstract for the purposes of an All Star line. I too also hate how late the book is. However, between Frank Miller co-directing and writing Sin City 2, Batman: Holy Terror, and this, and Jim Lee overseeing the recent Wildstorm reboot and penciling both this and Wildcats, it's completely understandable and I will be there for the whole ride.



So Angry-Batman is Miller's way of poking fun at grim-and-gritty, a genre that made his name but now he thinks is excessive? Or maybe not, because he is plunging Batman into the world of Sin City, so in fact Miller may like grim-and-gritty.

Or maybe its a parody, as some have said, and the fact that lots of us don't get it, shows how far over our heads Miller is.

Oh. My. God.

I can play that game, too.

The next time Woody Allen releases a disappointing movie, I'll say it's just a parody of his earlier work. So the "Allen universe" contains brilliant films, and parodies of his brilliant films. Thus, you can't criticize anything, because it's all brilliant on some level, and since you don't get it you're obviously a typical dim moviegoer who needs everything simple.

[ComicBookWriter13]

[QUOTE=Donal]No.

If their families died it'd be understandable. QUOTE]




oooo, that's cold!

[SteveZegers]

I like it. It's fun. (I wish Jim Lee was a little faster, what can you do?)

[Fake Pat]

So Angry-Batman is Miller's way of poking fun at grim-and-gritty, a genre that made his name but now he thinks is excessive? Or maybe not, because he is plunging Batman into the world of Sin City, so in fact Miller may like grim-and-gritty.

Or maybe its a parody, as some have said, and the fact that lots of us don't get it, shows how far over our heads Miller is.

Oh. My. God.

I can play that game, too.

The next time Woody Allen releases a disappointing movie, I'll say it's just a parody of his earlier work. So the "Allen universe" contains brilliant films, and parodies of his brilliant films. Thus, you can't criticize anything, because it's all brilliant on some level, and since you don't get it you're obviously a typical dim moviegoer who needs everything simple.

this was kind of my stance up until issue 4. after reading issue 4 it becomes pretty clear what miller's going for with this book, and it's not to be taken seriously at all. between the fold-out and the scenes with superman running across the atlantic saying "DAMN!" it became pretty clear to me that miller is just messing with us.

he's really just evolved into a satirist.

[Akira]

this was kind of my stance up until issue 4. after reading issue 4 it becomes pretty clear what miller's going for with this book, and it's not to be taken seriously at all. between the fold-out and the scenes with superman running across the atlantic saying "DAMN!" it became pretty clear to me that miller is just messing with us.

he's really just evolved into a satirist.
Exactly. Issue #4 is what made it blatently obvious to me that this is a parody of the genre and the conventions therein.

[Doug]

The next time Woody Allen releases a disappointing movie, I'll say it's just a parody of his earlier work. So the "Allen universe" contains brilliant films, and parodies of his brilliant films. Thus, you can't criticize anything, because it's all brilliant on some level, and since you don't get it you're obviously a typical dim moviegoer who needs everything simple.

Curse of the Jade Scorpion sucks no matter who directed it. It is not brilliant and it is not a parody of anything except good movies. Hollywood Ending is just as bad.

And just because most of Allen's recent films suck really hard doesn't take away from the fact that Annie Hall, Crimes and Misdeminors,Take the Money and Run, and Bananas are four of my all time favorite films.

As for ASBARTBW, I'm enjoying it, but I can see how there are people who don't.

[RickLM]

Curse of the Jade Scorpion sucks no matter who directed it. It is not brilliant and it is not a parody of anything except good movies. Hollywood Ending is just as bad.

And just because most of Allen's recent films suck really hard doesn't take away from the fact that Annie Hall, Crimes and Misdeminors,Take the Money and Run, and Bananas are four of my all time favorite films.

As for ASBARTBW, I'm enjoying it, but I can see how there are people who don't.


Allen's next bad film will tie it all together. You'll watch it and realize what he was trying to do with those films that weren't so good, and that will put everything in perspective. :twisted:

I kid, I kid.

[Doug]

Allen's next bad film will tie it all together. You'll watch it and realize what he was trying to do with those films that weren't so good, and that will put everything in perspective. :twisted:

I kid, I kid.

But Scoop wasn't that good either.:cry:

I'd like to see Allen write the next arc of All-Star Batman though. That could be great.

Robin: Batman, the Joker just dug up the graves of Thomas and Martha Wayne and is making marionette puppets out the skeletons.

Batman: Jeeze, if it's not one thing it's your mother.

Robin: What are you talking about?

Batman: Joker probably has a lot of unresolved mother issues. He should probably visit a shrink. But not Dr. Palmer. I made that mistake once. Just because he can shrink doesn't mean he can analyze you.

[ComicBookWriter13]

so, yeah, I enjoy ASBARTBW (jesus, what a mouthfull, there's your first indication that miller was fuckingh with us), and I also enjoy the fact that I am in a minority, and that I enjoy something that everyone is expending so much energy to hate :)

[glk]

I like it, it's an enjoyable book. I don't think it's as bad as everyone says, but whatever. It's not a parody.

[A.Huerta]

Exactly. Issue #4 is what made it blatently obvious to me that this is a parody of the genre and the conventions therein.


SO it's DC's Nextwave?

[Hate_Prime]

SO it's DC's Nextwave?

But Nextwave is a better satire and I actually like it. It has huge walking monster-things with death-ray faces.

[Jef UK]

The anti-ASB&R furor this book has caused is an embarassing condemnation of the fanboy nation. I'm not claiming that it's the greatest book that's ever been published, but the fact that so many fans are inclined to aim vitriol at the book and its author tells me they're either sheep who are eager to bash something/someone it's cool to hate or they really suck at comprehending any story that isn't spoonfed to them. Either way...embarassing.

Now someone will chime in with, "Maybe we just don't like bad comics."

Yeah, yeah...shut the hell up, you simple-minded, cliche spewing toolbag.

:lol: Are you writing notes to yourself, fanboy?

[Akira]

SO it's DC's Nextwave?
Aside from the fact that Nextwave is a lot more blatent with it, and comes from a writer most people would expect this style of book from, that's not a bad analogy.

[King of Mars]

:lol: Are you writing notes to yourself, fanboy?Well, I suppose all the comic stuff we discuss here is "cliche", to a certain extent. I suppose even my "anger" (which isn't really anger, BTW) is sort of a fanboy cliche. That being said...I don't think there's anything more blatantly and embarrassingly cliche than a group of comic fans on a messageboard firing off a bunch of non-constructive barbs at a book/author it's become cool to hate.

[Fake Pat]

Aside from the fact that Nextwave is a lot more blatent with it, and comes from a writer most people would expect this style of book from, that's not a bad analogy.

i think that nextwave is more about poking fun at the goofiness of specific characters and concepts in a specific (the marvel) universe. ASBARTBW seems to be about satirizing comic books in general, especially the stuff from the 90's. you've got the unnecessary cheesecake artwork, an insane fold-out, the "ultimization" of black canary, and grittiness so over the top that even characters in the book comment on it.

the last issue of the miller/lee run should have a foil cover and come bagged with a trading card.

[Hate_Prime]

Well, I suppose all the comic stuff we discuss here is "cliche", to a certain extent. I suppose even my "anger" (which isn't really anger, BTW) is sort of a fanboy cliche. That being said...I don't think there's anything more blatantly and embarrassingly cliche than a group of comic fans on a messageboard firing off a bunch of non-constructive barbs at a book/author it's become cool to hate.

What if it isn't cool to hate the book/author? And at what point does an uncool hating of a book/author become cool?

[King of Mars]

What if it isn't cool to hate the book/author? And at what point does an uncool hating of a book/author become cool?Simple rule...stick to constructive, respectful criticism of whatever book you're talking about and none of that matters. ;)

[LazyComix]

I only hope to oneday write a book that causes this much fanboy bitching and crying.

Someday.

[A.Huerta]

You know what... someone has to ask FM or Lee what the hell this book is.

[King of Mars]

You know what... someone has to ask FM or Lee what the hell this book is.No shit. Is Miller sequestered in his compound or something? Weird that we've never gotten his response to the uproar this book has caused.

[Hate_Prime]

Simple rule...stick to constructive, respectful criticism of whatever book you're talking about and none of that matters. ;)

You brought it up. The cool hating thing is your premise.

[Generic Poster]

i think that nextwave is more about poking fun at the goofiness of specific characters and concepts in a specific (the marvel) universe. ASBARTBW seems to be about satirizing comic books in general, especially the stuff from the 90's. you've got the unnecessary cheesecake artwork, an insane fold-out, the "ultimization" of black canary, and grittiness so over the top that even characters in the book comment on it.

the last issue of the miller/lee run should have a foil cover and come bagged with a trading card.

I think the real reason I didn't enjoy it was because it (to me) just read like a lousy parody of a generic Frank Miller book, rather than a parody of Batman or superheroes.

[Yannick_B]

You know what... someone has to ask FM or Lee what the hell this book is.

From this very thread:




All Star Batman and Robin is Frank Miller's commentary on the grim-'n-gritty themes in mainstream comics that have become more prevalent in the medium over the past fifteen years or so. It's done in a tongue-in-cheek style, with the over-the-top, excessive nature being meant to both disturb and foster in an air of jest. The author has even stated, once to me personally at a signing, that this is what he was going for. .

[King of Mars]

You brought it up. The cool hating thing is your premise.Right...and my point is, peoples' fanboy agendas show when they abandon respectful critiques in favor of non-constructive vitriol.

[Hate_Prime]

You know what... someone has to ask FM or Lee what the hell this book is.

The artiste does not have to explain his work; they stand on their own. It's your own neanderthal brain's fault for not understanding the depth and complexities and intent of real art. Philistine.

[Akira]

the last issue of the miller/lee run should have a foil cover and come bagged with a trading card.
I swear to god, I'll buy five fucking copies if this happens :lol:

[Icaruss]

I wonder what Lee thinks of the actual storyline.

[Hate_Prime]

Right...and my point is, peoples' fanboy agendas show when they abandon respectful critiques in favor of non-constructive vitriol.

Ugh. Fanboy agendas really do fucking suck.

[A.Huerta]

From this very thread:


YEah, that says something. FM has to say it himself.

[A.Huerta]

I wonder what Lee thinks of the actual storyline.


I dont think he likes it. He said it in a very broad and respectful way in an interview in Wizard. Something like, "It wasnt what I was expecting... but its an honor to work with Millar..."

Something like that.

[Hate_Prime]

Here's a possible change of pace from the cliche "It fucking sucks" from the deriders. Also a change from the "No it is you who sucks" reply from some of the more enlightened fans which is also a cliche and the bigger irony.

I still don't fully get this book and I have a hard time just accepting that it is a bad Batman story by Frank Miller (yeah, very fanboyish). Even I found something I liked about DKR2. So far the only thing like about All Star Batman is Jim Lee's pretty pictures, despite that I think it's out of place.

I can accept that the book is a satire. When I skimmed through the issues again thinking that it's a satire, I'm like "Oh, okay. I guess I see how this can be satire."

I don't think that it's a satire of the general grim and gritty tones of all comics though. I think it's more of the specific Batman archetype that Miller popularized. Maybe he's bitter about it, I don't know.

The problem is the book just presents all the grim and gritty to an extreme with all the faults of the grim and gritty schtick without the anything redeeming. It's like "Look this is grim and gritty and I'm showing you how it's bad. You see? Amirite?"

Is it supposed to be funny though? Is it fun and exciting? Is it even particularly witty? It's like the equivalent of drawing horns or a hitler mustache on a picture of someone and that's the extent of the satire.

"Oh a fold out page thingy. I get it. It's references that era with the things and the other things. Err, haha?"

So if All-Star Batman & Robin is a satire, so far it seems to be half-assed. Very generic like what it tries to satirize. Only thing separating it from the other generic grim and gritties is the possible self-awareness. That's not enough. All-STar Batman and Robin is just mediocre.

Just my humble opinion. See, I can be humble too. I can be the most humble out of all of you if I wanted to.

[Liquid]

The problem I have with the book is that the storyline is going to be 15 issues. It's already on #4 and not much has happend. And it kills me to think Jim Lee is stuck on this book for so long when he could be doing WildCats with Morrison on a monthly level.

[Akira]

Here's a possible change of pace from the cliche "It fucking sucks" from the deriders. Also a change from the "No it is you who sucks" reply from some of the more enlightened fans which is also a cliche and the bigger irony.

I still don't fully get this book and I have a hard time just accepting that it is a bad Batman story by Frank Miller (yeah, very fanboyish). Even I found something I liked about DKR2. So far the only thing like about All Star Batman is Jim Lee's pretty pictures, despite that I think it's out of place.

I can accept that the book is a satire. When I skimmed through the issues again thinking that it's a satire, I'm like "Oh, okay. I guess I see how this can be satire."

I don't think that it's a satire of the general grim and gritty tones of all comics though. I think it's more of the specific Batman archetype that Miller popularized. Maybe he's bitter about it, I don't know.

The problem is the book just presents all the grim and gritty to an extreme with all the faults of the grim and gritty schtick without the anything redeeming. It's like "Look this is grim and gritty and I'm showing you how it's bad. You see? Amirite?"

Is it supposed to be funny though? Is it fun and exciting? Is it even particularly witty? It's like the equivalent of drawing horns or a hitler mustache on a picture of someone and that's the extent of the satire.

"Oh a fold out page thingy. I get it. It's references that era with the things and the other things. Err, haha?"

So if All-Star Batman & Robin is a satire, so far it seems to be half-assed. Very generic like what it tries to satirize. Only thing separating it from the other generic grim and gritties is the possible self-awareness. That's not enough. All-STar Batman and Robin is just mediocre.

Just my humble opinion. See, I can be humble too. I can be the most humble out of all of you if I wanted to.
Very well stated points. I can see how the satire of the book may not be appreciated or even liked by everyone. I personally think it is one of the funniest books being published these days. It's tounge is planted so firmly in it's cheek that I can't help but laugh outloud. One of the funniest sequences I've read outside of Nextwave was in issue 4:
When Batman shows Robin the cave. He's so proud of it and himself, he turns to Robin with a grin and says "Pretty cool, huh?". And Robin just dismisses it. The smile melts from Batman's face and he just thinks to himself "I hate this kid" :lol: