are comics a part of pop culture?

[Murdock's Girl]

Yea I know I am totally asking this question on a biased board.
But really, truely honestly, forget that you are a comic book fan for a second and anwer the question.

I am trying to prove a point to a professor, and i want to show him this thread.

Tessana aka Daredevil

[FredC]

I'd have to say yes.

It's infected movies, TV, clothing, toys, even theme park rides. I'd have to say yes.

[Jacob Lyon Goddard]

spiderman is part of pop culture
batman is part of pop culture
snoopy is part of pop culture

comic books are not

[Murdock's Girl]

spiderman is part of pop culture
batman is part of pop culture
snoopy is part of pop culture

comic books are not

but all those characters came out of comic books and comic strips- if those two mediums didn't exist, then I doubt those characters would.

Tessana aka :daredevil

[Jacob Lyon Goddard]

I'd have to say yes.

It's infected movies, TV, clothing, toys, even theme park rides. I'd have to say yes.
Licensed corporate intellectual properties have infected movies, TV, clothing, toys, even theme park rides.

comics have not

[Blandy vs Terrorism]

comic books are not
When they get to the point that they're written about in Entertainment Weekly, yes they are a part of pop culture.

[Bearpod91]

Yeah, the characters are big but no way are comic books. If they were, I would see everyone with an ipod also have a comic with them.

[Patrick J]

For the most part, yes.

[Murdock's Girl]

Whoa- I am not asking about the popularity of comics, but if they are a part of american pop culture.

As I argued with my professor (a history teacher) comics were INSANELY popular during the world wars and heck- Stan Lee marvel age stuff.

Just because a medium dies, comes back slowly doesn't mean it wasn't a part of pop culture at some point in american history.

Ex-8 track tapes.

Tessana aka :daredevil

[Bearpod91]

Doesn't popularity make something stay in pop culture? Hmm...

[bartleby]

The problem with this question is that there's no solid definition of pop culture.

So without trying to define it myself, I will contend that comic books were at one time part of pop culture. And while certain characters have transcended the medium to become a part of pop culture independently, comic books themselves are more appropriately categorized as being counter culture.

[andrew french]

so are you asking if they're part of pop culture now or were or..?

because if he denies that they were NEVER part of pop culture, that seems ludicrous.

[Patrick J]

I might be wrong, but isn't it written somewhere that the Superman "S" logo is more recognized internationally than the American Flag?

Comics may not be that popular now but they are certainly a part of "popular culture" at least in an historical sense.

[Murdock's Girl]

so are you asking if they're part of pop culture now or were or..?

because if he denies that they were NEVER part of pop culture, that seems ludicrous.

Yep that is what he is denying.

he also stated that Superman and captain america, or wonder woman, or spiderman or batman or american pop culture icons.

I am not joking.

The class is called "History of American Pop Culture" i would understand that if he argued that currently they are not a part of pop culture, I wouldn't agree with him, but I would see where he was coming from- but never? no.

but he also made a comment in class about sub sects reinforce the pop culture status- his example was star trek fans.
so with that arguement, I used comic book fans (heck, i even told the class about fans at WWC) that comic books- by HIS arguement are a secular part of pop culture, but they are included into pop culture status because of the fans.

Didn't agree with me on that either.

Tessana aka :daredevil

[Murdock's Girl]

I might be wrong, but isn't it written somewhere that the Superman "S" logo is more recognized internationally than the American Flag?

Comics may not be that popular now but they are certainly a part of "popular culture" at least in an historical sense.

Yea you are right, my sociology professor told us the same thing about the superman "s' (i can't remember where in the life of me its printed at...).

Tessana aka :daredevil

[Patrick J]

Yea you are right, my sociology professor told us the same thing about the superman "s' (i can't remember where in the life of me its printed at...).

This professor, the pop culture one not the sociology one sounds like a complete douchebag. Make note of all the dumb shit this hack says, present to another professor and complain if you want *shrugs* Might be worth it if it saves future students from this jackass.

[bartleby]

I think an important thing to consider is how your teacher is defining pop culture. When you're dealing with the study of maths and sciences, theories and terminology are pretty firmly written in stone. But with a lot of communications courses, it's more left up to interpretation. There's not a particular tome for teaching pop culture studies, so pop culture becomes whatever the instructor or the text declares it to be.

[tdaniel]

Absolutely. And they have been since shortly after their creation. Please have your professor read, "Men Of Tomorrow" as one example. In fact, I would say that comic serials in one form or another are one of the pillars of pop culture.

What was the assertion that they may not be? I'm interested.

[Natty P]

Of course they are.


Is this a trick question?

[Taxman]

Your best arguement might be simply providing a copy of the program to Comic Con International. When one realizes the massive amount and variation of the presentations made there, and the fact the it has all spun out from comics, it is hard to make his arguement. Even just considering some of the more significant press announcements made at this show is recent years helps to reinforce the idea that comics are a part of pop culture.

[Jaredan]

He sounds like a lot of lecturers, only interested in his immediate sphere of knowledge and dismissive of anything he isn't interested in.
He knows better than you, being his rationale.
Like my linguistics lecturer who said that the dialect I had analysed didn't exist, which was weird as I was speaking it at the time, as it is from my hometown.
It is such a shame when one who espouses the merits of learning refuses to do so him/herself, any teacher has things to learn from his or her students.
American comics are obviously a media product that is labelled popular culture, the way the superhero genre has dominated the medium and how it is so automatically associated with men-in-tights in itself proves its existence in the public conciousness.
Even when a medium is dismissed due to a genre, the genre itself ia something that is obviously known by many, which your lecturer is unfortunately and misguidingly defining as "popular" culture.

[NATE!]

Comics are a part of pop culture. So are the sad individuals who try to justify their obsessions with comics by constantly pointing out how mainstream they are.

:)

[anThONY_s]

If comic books aren't a part of pop culture, then what about the comic book guy on the Simpsons?

In today's society, comic books themselves might not be as "popular" as they used to be, but the image of an adult reading comic books is very popular when describing someone as being outside the popular culture.

And I'd argue that a child reading comic books evokes an image of innocence and imagination in the majority of the population.

Comic books also have this interesting duality for pop culture, since the actual comic book is seen as being cheap disposable entertainment for the masses, but they're also collectible and part of the elite culture (someone rich might have a copy of Action Comics #1 and display it as a sign of wealth).

[TRILL, THE CARBON BASED LIFEFORM]

Pop culture is defined anthropologically as culture disseminated nationally through mass communication. Folk culture is face to face and usually on a local level. So, yes, comics are pop culture.

[shaolin punk]

comic book charecters are a oart of pop culture but comics are not , sport ,t.v,films,music and to a ceartain extent books all have t.v or radio programes dedicated to them but comics to my knowledge do not .

[Doug]

comic book charecters are a oart of pop culture but comics are not , sport ,t.v,films,music and to a ceartain extent books all have t.v or radio programes dedicated to them but comics to my knowledge do not .

But comics are a part of popular shows, such as The OC, and the Simpsons.

Bob Newhart even had a tv show in which he played a comicbook artist (I think it was called Bob).

You could also argue that Watchmen being on a list of the greatest works of the 20th century (it was a magazine, Entertainment Weekly or Time or something) would put comics as part of pop culture.

[PoWerSurge]

but all those characters came out of comic books and comic strips- if those two mediums didn't exist, then I doubt those characters would.

Tessana aka :daredevil

They originated in comics, but they've sense trancended the original medium

You could almost defer the question by genre. It's like saying that all movies are a part of pop culture, or all music is a part of pop culture.

[Murdock's Girl]

Absolutely. And they have been since shortly after their creation. Please have your professor read, "Men Of Tomorrow" as one example. In fact, I would say that comic serials in one form or another are one of the pillars of pop culture.

What was the assertion that they may not be? I'm interested.

Because the mainstream society doesn't read them. See my above post about how star trek is a part of pop culture in his mind.

I was deciding in class that I would let him have the arguement about comic books, but when he said superheros are not a part of pop culture, the class jumped down his throat.

:)

Tessana aka:daredevil

[anThONY_s]

They originated in comics, but they've sense trancended the original medium

You could almost defer the question by genre. It's like saying that all movies are a part of pop culture, or all music is a part of pop culture.

Movie is a medium, sci fi movie is a genre.

[Murdock's Girl]

It is such a shame when one who espouses the merits of learning refuses to do so him/herself, any teacher has things to learn from his or her students.


I couldn't agree with you more.

Here's an example: Gonder (my film prof) wife Teresa is the most wonderful woman on the face of the planet. Now both of them are known feminist on campus (if you take their classes they pretty much warn you up front- yes, even Gonder- a guy says this).

So a couple of years ago I am taking Teresa's "women in Literture" class. Now I know she hates comic books- totally despises them (which made me laugh, considering I know how many comics Gonder owns in his office alone).

So for our last paper of the class, i wanted to write about Bendis' Elektra run. I begged and pleading to use the book, and Teresa put her foot down and said no. If I did that paper, she would have Gonder grade it because she honestly just didn't get comic books, she had a hard time reading them.

Well I figured if that is the problem, I could solve that. I went out and bought (probably the 20th copy of this) Kabuki metatmorphsis, and left it in her office for her.
She was so distracted by the art work she didn't realize that she was reading the story. We talked about it, and I brought her more comics- the rest of kabuki, powers, and a bunch of indys. She eventually learned to appreicate comics in her own way, let me write the paper and had me do a lecture about comics at the Gender Confernece she held.

Just saw her the other day- she was reading the latest Kabuki, and when I walked into her office, she had just as many hardbacks as her husband. She was reading alchemy to hopefully use it in her class. :)

My sociology prof- John- said once that a teacher can never stop learning, espically from his students.
I couldn't agree with him more- espically in a subject like pop culture where as this guy says "it surronds us" how couldn't we as students already know something about the subject currently?

Tessana aka:daredevil

[Murdock's Girl]

Movie is a medium, sci fi movie is a genre.

Exactly.

I could see that someone saying 'books' are a medium, and comic books are a genre. I could see someone saying it, but i can't agree with them whatsoever.

Comics are their own medium. When you can take something and break it down further (i.e. Books- sci-fi mystery drama thriller) then it is its own identity. Comics can be broken down too- independent, 'mainstream' superhero, crime, western, kids etc etc

Tessana aka:daredevil

[anThONY_s]

Exactly.

I could see that someone saying 'books' are a medium, and comic books are a genre. I could see someone saying it, but i can't agree with them whatsoever.

Comics are their own medium. When you can take something and break it down further (i.e. Books- sci-fi mystery drama thriller) then it is its own identity. Comics can be broken down too- independent, 'mainstream' superhero, crime, western, kids etc etc

Tessana aka:daredevil

The reason why Diamond Comic Distributors can have a monopoly over Marvel and DC comic book distribution is because, while they have a monopoly over comic books, they don't have a monopoly over book distribution as a whole.

So, in essence, the courts disagree with you.

[Murdock's Girl]

The reason why Diamond Comic Distributors can have a monopoly over Marvel and DC comic book distribution is because, while they have a monopoly over comic books, they don't have a monopoly over book distribution as a whole.

So, in essence, the courts disagree with you.


Yea...
but Diamond is a bunch of idiots...:)

Tessana aka:daredevil

[shaolin punk]

i heard that as well but have you ever spoken to someone that has read watchmen that doesent read comics/graohic novels anyway ?

[Billie]

I'm going to go with yes

[Doug]

i heard that as well but have you ever spoken to someone that has read watchmen that doesent read comics/graohic novels anyway ?

When I worked in a comic shop I did have people come in looking for it because they heard it was "the best comic." So I would say that some people were drawn to it because of its reputation. I'm not sure if they followed up with reading other books after reading Watchmen though. I couldn't keep track of people who weren't regulars.

By the way, welcome to the board. It's a fun place to hang out and shoot the shit.

[nihilance]

I would say that Lichtenstein and Warhol would disagree with your douchebag instructor.

[shaolin punk]

When I worked in a comic shop I did have people come in looking for it because they heard it was "the best comic." So I would say that some people were drawn to it because of its reputation. I'm not sure if they followed up with reading other books after reading Watchmen though. I couldn't keep track of people who weren't regulars.

By the way, welcome to the board. It's a fun place to hang out and shoot the shit.
Aaaaawwwwww thanks !!!! This whole forum bobbins is kinnda new to me .

[Doug]

I would say that Lichtenstein and Warhol would disagree with your douchebag instructor.

Lichtenstein was a beery swine.

[PoWerSurge]

Movie is a medium, sci fi movie is a genre.

Exactly

I would consider Superhero comics pop culture, I wouldn't consider some of the independent comics such. some would even be considered counter-culture

[A.Huerta]

Yeah, I guess so.

[ComicBookWriter13]

yes, lines like the goddamnd batman proove it.

[Taki Soma]

it's a moot point.

[yskitch]

i spoke with a couple guys in my office here about this subject today after seeing the thread...they say (and don't read comics but watch jla and such on tv) that most definately they are part of pop culture...due to longevity and popularity...but it does depend on how you define pop culture

personally, i think superhero comics are more pop culture than the indies

[RickLM]

Of course they are.

[Shwicaz]

With comics getting spotlighted (spotlit?) in Entertainment Weekly on a regular basis...with articles on Marvel/DC/Batwoman/Civil War showing up in USA Today and the NY TImes, I think its safe to say that we are part of pop culture.

[Joe Doesn't Care]

Superman has done American Express commercials, I'm gonna say yeah.

[Murdock's Girl]

i spoke with a couple guys in my office here about this subject today after seeing the thread...they say (and don't read comics but watch jla and such on tv) that most definately they are part of pop culture...due to longevity and popularity...but it does depend on how you define pop culture

personally, i think superhero comics are more pop culture than the indies
Hey, thanks for getting some outside opinion!

I agree with the superhero comment.
Tessana aka :daredevil

[RegularJoe]

i'd say no - they WERE back in world war ii and probably all the way up through, say the 60s or 70s. but they have become an increasingly fringe thing. some aspects of comic books leak out (superman, batman, FF, etc.) but, at the same time, there are properties that were originally comic books that no one KNOWS were originally comic books. 'ghost world', 'blade' to a certain extent, 'men in black'.

pop culture is about what's POPular. aspects of/characters in comic books have muscled their way into pop culture but not the medium in general.

[GelfXIII]

Take a look at how often comic book characters are mentioned in music. Dating back to the 50s and on to today, there are hundreds of songs mentioning superman, kryptoninte, batman, wonder woman, spiderman.

Do a google search for lyrics superman and you'll get 3,460,000 hits.
Spider-man gets you almost 2 million.

I'm sure the results would be similar for the name Hulk, or Captain America.

Branch out into TV and movies and you'd find even more. Comic book references are permiated throughout our culture.

[Murdock's Girl]

i'd say no - they WERE back in world war ii and probably all the way up through, say the 60s or 70s. but they have become an increasingly fringe thing. some aspects of comic books leak out (superman, batman, FF, etc.) but, at the same time, there are properties that were originally comic books that no one KNOWS were originally comic books. 'ghost world', 'blade' to a certain extent, 'men in black'.

pop culture is about what's POPular. aspects of/characters in comic books have muscled their way into pop culture but not the medium in general.

Yeah, but since this is a HISTORY class, and comics were at one point as popular as MP3 players, then it should be included as - at the very least- a historical element.

Tessana aka :daredevil

[yskitch]

Yeah, but since this is a HISTORY class, and comics were at one point as popular as MP3 players, then it should be included as - at the very least- a historical element.

Tessana aka :daredevil
Its interesting that you bring up the MP3 player...one of the guys i asked said that an IPOD may be pop culture now, but in the future will be forgotten for something better and greater and forgotten...does that mean that they lose their once "pop culture status" since they aren't anymore? no...you aren't pop anymore, but you were so your history class should see them as pop culture, just not so much anymore unless you only count the popular movie franchises that are seen as the "comic movies" (spiderman, superman, batman, ff)

[andyjoe]

more pop than culture.

[bartleby]

Superman has done American Express commercials, I'm gonna say yeah.


So has Wes Anderson, but that doesn't make him part of pop culture.

[costello]

I would agree that Superman, Spider-Man, and Batman are popular culture icons. I would also agree that comic books are a genre. But I also think that comic book readers are part of a subculture. There's a certain clientele that frequents comic book stores and message boards such as this one and there is an unspoken language that the readers seem to understand between one another. Like you said with the professor, some people just don't get it. I don't mean this in an elitist sort of way and I'm not trying to be pompous. And I think that subcultures can instruct or push popular culture if you will. But I don't know... maybe your professor is purposefully pushing your buttons and is going to get to comic books in due time. He could be an ass, but don't damn him yet.

[RickLM]

So has Wes Anderson, but that doesn't make him part of pop culture.


How can a movie maker not be part of pop culture? His product, a mass-market movie, is a pop culture product. Anderson's certainly not a pop icon, like Elvis, but I don't think that's what this thread is asking.

[joshdahl]

How could they not be?

Look at all the places the Superman 'S' shows up.

"'S' on my chest" is synonymous with invulnerable.

"Kryptonite" means weakness.

Comics ARE pop culture.

Josh Dahl

http://www.monolithllc.com

[Joe Doesn't Care]

So has Wes Anderson, but that doesn't make him part of pop culture.

Yes because Royal Tenenbaums with Ben Stiller, both Wilson brothers, Bill Murry, Gwenith Paltro, Angelica Houston, Danny Glover and Gene Hackman was not pop culture. My mistake....:-?

[costello]

It's all in what theory you subscribe to I guess. This is from www.artsconnected.org.

popular culture -The opposite of high cultural art forms, such as the opera, historic art, classical music, traditional theater or literature; popular culture includes many forms of cultural communication including newspapers, television, advertising, comics, pop music, radio, cheap novels, movies, jazz, etc. In the beginning of the 20th Century, "high art" was the realm of the wealthy and educated classes while popular culture or "low art" was considered commercial entertainment for the lower classes. In the 1950s and 60s the gulf between high and low art closed with the rise of Pop Art.

[bartleby]

How can a movie maker not be part of pop culture? His product, a mass-market movie, is a pop culture product. Anderson's certainly not a pop icon, like Elvis, but I don't think that's what this thread is asking.


Yes because Royal Tenenbaums with Ben Stiller, both Wilson brothers, Bill Murry, Gwenith Paltro, Angelica Houston, Danny Glover and Gene Hackman was not pop culture. My mistake....:-?


So now we're broadening the definition of pop culture to be any movie, television show, radio show, book, magazine, comic book, album, etc. as well as any character featured in said work and any creator responsible for the creation of that character and that work?


Not everything is pop culture. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

[Murdock's Girl]

It's all in what theory you subscribe to I guess. This is from www.artsconnected.org.

popular culture -The opposite of high cultural art forms, such as the opera, historic art, classical music, traditional theater or literature; popular culture includes many forms of cultural communication including newspapers, television, advertising, comics, pop music, radio, cheap novels, movies, jazz, etc. In the beginning of the 20th Century, "high art" was the realm of the wealthy and educated classes while popular culture or "low art" was considered commercial entertainment for the lower classes. In the 1950s and 60s the gulf between high and low art closed with the rise of Pop Art.


Funny you post this. Monday night, my film prof said "I don't put a line between high art and low art-or pop culture. The line is fake. Everyone defines art differently"
I wrote that down verbatim. I thought he was right.

If you think about it- and my idiot history guy did agree with this- that shakespeare was (and I don't agree with this part) still pop culture.

There is a difference folks between superhero icons and comic books. Superhero icons are DEFINATLY pop culture, comic books are a subculture- which according to my prof (see previous posts) that the fans of the subculture make it pop culture (his example was star trek fans)... if that's his arguement than comic book fans should be included- but he wouldn't include it.

Tessana aka :daredevil

[Murdock's Girl]

So now we're broadening the definition of pop culture to be any movie, television show, radio show, book, magazine, comic book, album, etc. as well as any character featured in said work and any creator responsible for the creation of that character and that work?


Not everything is pop culture. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

I would agree with you, actually I do. But according to idiot prof. he said that pop culture is EVERYTHING-movies, gadgets, tv, music, advertising, even our clothes.
So with that logic, so should comic books,and anime and manga. But he said they arn't. He isn't even staying with his own reasoning, and i think that is what pisses me off the most.


Tessana aka :daredevil

[RickLM]

Maybe I'm thinking along the lines of the prof:

I see "high culture" as classical painting, opera, ballet.

"Pop culture" is that mass area of popular creative products: rock music, comics, movies, TV.

Some things seem to be caught between those worlds -- is jazz music a popular art or a high art? -- but according to the typical definition, comics are no doubt a pop art. You can make a case that Watchmen may transcend "pop", thanks to being added to the top 100 novels of the century, and perhaps Maus.

[Murdock's Girl]

Regardless with you have to agree that comics are pop culture. Yea there are some things- watchmen, maus and I would throw in Blankets and Kabuki- that transcend or defy the medium.


Tessana aka :daredevil

[yskitch]

So has Wes Anderson, but that doesn't make him part of pop culture.
not to sound ignorant...but who is wes anderson?

[yskitch]

Regardless with you have to agree that comics are pop culture. Yea there are some things- watchmen, maus and I would throw in Blankets and Kabuki- that transcend or defy the medium.


Tessana aka :daredevil

i always thought of pop culture as what was popular at that given period in time...like the ipod is now for example or those low rise jeans that i enjoy on girls. with that in mind, to me a comic book isn't necessarily part of pop culture, but a superhero icon such as supes, batman, spidey are definately part of the pop culture...

[Murdock's Girl]

not to sound ignorant...but who is wes anderson?
Director. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0027572/

[Murdock's Girl]

i always thought of pop culture as what was popular at that given period in time...like the ipod is now for example or those low rise jeans that i enjoy on girls. with that in mind, to me a comic book isn't necessarily part of pop culture, but a superhero icon such as supes, batman, spidey are definately part of the pop culture...

But from a historical sense, can you agree that comic books at one time (i.e. golden/silver/marvel ages- pre wertham) were pop culture?

Tessana aka :daredevil

[yskitch]

But from a historical sense, can you agree that comic books at one time (i.e. golden/silver/marvel ages- pre wertham) were pop culture?

Tessana aka :daredevil

of course i agree with that part of it...however over time, they have fallen out of the "popular" part of pop culture and were overtaken by other things, but picked up by we readers and i suppose are now "counter culture"...i say stick it to this guy, make him regret not agreeing with a comic message board about comics being historically popular culture

[Murdock's Girl]

of course i agree with that part of it...however over time, they have fallen out of the "popular" part of pop culture and were overtaken by other things, but picked up by we readers and i suppose are now "counter culture"...i say stick it to this guy, make him regret not agreeing with a comic message board about comics being historically popular culture

The class is once a week on mondays- I can't wait. I am bringing in my film paper that i did on X2 about how its a great representation of both homosexuality and arab americans in post 9/11 america.
Yea, its a film paper I did for my film class, but a good chunk of the paper deals with the comic book since Stan started it.

Or I am thinking about my Daredevil Mack echo run paper.

:)
Tessana aka :daredevil

[TheTravis!]

Maybe your professors are just shit sick of your inability to do anything unless it's related to comics in some way?

[Murdock's Girl]

Maybe your professors are just shit sick of your inability to do anything unless it's related to comics in some way?

Considering that 3 of my longtime professors are comic geeks themselves (and I got into comics because of them). Ironically, it was just a historical point i was trying to argue in class that's all- and I was even using his logic, which he said wouldn't work with comic books (but star trek fans?)- like I said, the biggest thing that made me upset was not the fact about comic books, but the fact that he was being hypocritical about his own points!
Tessana aka :daredevil

[Foolish Mortal]

Licensed corporate intellectual properties have infected movies, TV, clothing, toys, even theme park rides.

comics have not
I have to agree somewhat. The vast majority of the general public know who Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man are, but they know them mostly through TV shows and Movies, and not from comics.

Comics are part of pop culture to be sure, but not nearly on the same scale as movies and television.

[bartleby]

So has Wes Anderson, but that doesn't make him part of pop culture.

not to sound ignorant...but who is wes anderson?


Exactly!

[Murdock's Girl]

I like the fact that this thread has gone soooo many pages with an (semi) intelligent conversation.

Now.. back to the coversation at hand:
not to retread past threads- but why isn't comic books studied more in schools? seriously, i can't tell you how many articles i've come across proving how comics help ESL kids pick up english faster, or younger students in elementary school learning to read faster.
That, and yes, this is a personal belief- I seriously wished colleges used them more as examples of history and pop culture studies- or hell, even like my english and sociology classes. This is one of the few mediums that could be studied from almost any angle of subjects.

[monkeyboy]

I like the fact that this thread has gone soooo many pages with an (semi) intelligent conversation.

Now.. back to the coversation at hand:
not to retread past threads- but why isn't comic books studied more in schools? seriously, i can't tell you how many articles i've come across proving how comics help ESL kids pick up english faster, or younger students in elementary school learning to read faster.
That, and yes, this is a personal belief- I seriously wished colleges used them more as examples of history and pop culture studies- or hell, even like my english and sociology classes. This is one of the few mediums that could be studied from almost any angle of subjects.


my guess, because comics are fighting TWO battles. Each one lead by a seperate group of leaders. One group is trying to establish comics as an art form. The other group is trying to establish comics as a literary form. More often tha not, the two rarely help one another out and make their battles just that much more difficult. One day the comic creators will realize that Writers pencillers, inkers, colorists, and lettereres have to work together if they want any part of the modern day comic to be made by hand. If they do not then Marvel will have their ultimate expense cut in the bag and FIANLLY be able to get rid of ALL their human staff cuz everything will be done on computers for just a fraction of the price.

[RickLM]

I like the fact that this thread has gone soooo many pages with an (semi) intelligent conversation.

Now.. back to the coversation at hand:
not to retread past threads- but why isn't comic books studied more in schools? seriously, i can't tell you how many articles i've come across proving how comics help ESL kids pick up english faster, or younger students in elementary school learning to read faster.
That, and yes, this is a personal belief- I seriously wished colleges used them more as examples of history and pop culture studies- or hell, even like my english and sociology classes. This is one of the few mediums that could be studied from almost any angle of subjects.


It always takes a while for the academic establishment to believe an art form has value.

-Film was around for years but when did they begin studying it seriously -- the 50s or 60s?

-Even though jazz was born here, it was the French who first took it seriously as a legitimate art form.

-I'm not sure that TV, even the best shows ever made, have been taken seriously as art even yet.

-Comics are slowly getting attention; it may take a generational change in academia, when the old guard retires and profs born in the 60s, 70s and 80s begin to run humanities departments and generate more books and essays on the art form.

[Murdock's Girl]

It always takes a while for the academic establishment to believe an art form has value.

-Film was around for years but when did they begin studying it seriously -- the 50s or 60s?

-Even though jazz was born here, it was the French who first took it seriously as a legitimate art form.

-I'm not sure that TV, even the best shows ever made, have been taken seriously as art even yet.

-Comics are slowly getting attention; it may take a generational change in academia, when the old guard retires and profs born in the 60s, 70s and 80s begin to run humanities departments and generate more books and essays on the art form.

Film wasn't taught in college level classes until the spielberg/lucas generation got out of school- so more like the 70's.

I am slowly seeing the comic book thing come around- i think your right that the old guard needs to leave first. my profs that use it in class grew up on the miller daredevils and stuff.