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Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 01:08 PM
Does this country seem like its going to impode on itself like the Roman Empire?

That we are currently reliving (in some cases of people) the mccarthy era except now that there is no one person to call and blame like Sen. McCarthy?

That the people of this country are being sheep hearding like no tomorrow?

When did celebrities lives rank more important in headline news then the "war on terror"?

Is the "war on terror" to vague a term?

We are closing on the 5th anniversary of 9/11 and we still don't have Bin Laden's head on a platter?

That Bush is the worst president in the history of this country? (And someone please dear god fire his speech writer and put our 'elected' leader through a basic speech course).

Sorry for sounding so doomsday-e. I am going through some old sociology papers and I am just seeing so many problems that no one is addressing. IT MAKES ME SICK.

Tessana aka MG

Brian Defferding
08-10-2006, 01:10 PM
The White House just needs some more pizza in their diet. I firmly believe pizza is the key to world peace.

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 01:16 PM
You my dear Brian, is what cheers me up when I get in a mood like this. :)

Still, i am thinking about my "group therapy" discussion from last night. 5 of my friends and I were going in circles about what is the cause of this problem. My pinpoint is the media.

See, the way I learned my US history is that the media was suppose to be the 4th estate in this country. They are suppose to call the government into question.
Kinda hard to do that when the whos who of Hollywood was meeting with the Bush Admin. hours after 9/11 (on 9/13 to be exact) to see what they could to do 'help'. The bush admin wanted to throw these 'good vs bad' ideals into the mainstream thinking- hence the flood of fantasy and superhero pics lately. (which i have mixed feelings on... its great material to use, but i think the superhero movies are being greenlighted through the hollywood system to support this idea).

Then on top of it, the news media is only producing what the government wants us to hear. I understand this to a certain degree due to national security issues and such, but my god can one get an eye full by looking at what the Europeans (The BBC) and Mexico have for film footage.

Then to top it all off- you have people in this country with great creditbility saying that 9/11 is this huge conspiracy theroy. GIVE ME A BREAK (my one question for those thinking this- where have the dead been for the last 5 years?)

Tessana aka MG

JoeE
08-10-2006, 01:28 PM
That Bush is the worst president in the history of this country? (And someone please dear god fire his speech writer and put our 'elected' leader through a basic speech course).

He is NOT the worst President in the history of the United States. He still has a ways to go before approaching the likes of Harding and the Civil War shit-trifecta of Johnson, Buchanan, and Pierce. American history is bigger than modern experience, and worse things have happened to this country than George W. Bush.

Ray G.
08-10-2006, 01:32 PM
The hysteria that surrounds this President is pretty crazy. I think in five years Bush will practically be a footnote.

Hawkdevil
08-10-2006, 01:34 PM
He is NOT the worst President in the history of the United States. He still has a ways to go before approaching the likes of Harding and the Civil War shit-trifecta of Johnson, Buchanan, and Pierce. American history is bigger than modern experience, and worse things have happened to this country than George W. Bush.

They didnt have nuclear weapons either in their possession or aimed at them...

Whether or not he's the WORST president in the history of the US, he's still the most dangerous.

RegularJoe
08-10-2006, 02:00 PM
carter was the worst president. bush is close, though.

natalie
08-10-2006, 02:08 PM
The bush admin wanted to throw these 'good vs bad' ideals into the mainstream thinking- hence the flood of fantasy and superhero pics lately. (which i have mixed feelings on... its great material to use, but i think the superhero movies are being greenlighted through the hollywood system to support this idea).




Talk about conspiracy theories, huh.

Ryan Elliott
08-10-2006, 02:26 PM
Talk about conspiracy theories, huh.



I'm thinking the JLU Question would whole-heartedly agree with that quoted statement.

Ben
08-10-2006, 02:29 PM
The hysteria that surrounds this President is pretty crazy. I think in five years Bush will practically be a footnote.You're high. You must be. Bush will at least be a major section of a chapter about the turn of the century.

Simps
08-10-2006, 02:39 PM
The hysteria that surrounds this President is pretty crazy. I think in five years Bush will practically be a footnote.
People still talk about Clinton and Lewinsky, and he hasn't been president in 6 years. And that was a blowjob, not the invasion of other countries. Bush will not be a footnote.

mike black
08-10-2006, 02:50 PM
You don't sound dooms-day-y. You just sound uninformed....

Ray G.
08-10-2006, 03:34 PM
People still talk about Clinton and Lewinsky, and he hasn't been president in 6 years. And that was a blowjob, not the invasion of other countries. Bush will not be a footnote.

They'll talk about him, but the vast majority of the discussion will be over 9/11 and how the new president deals with the war on terror. He won't be forgotten by any means, but the prophesizing about how Bush is bringing about the end of democracy in America is rather silly.

UltimateQuintessa
08-10-2006, 04:11 PM
America love it or leave it.

Hawkdevil
08-10-2006, 06:24 PM
America love it or leave it.

Hahaha. I'm hoping this is sarcastic.

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 08:05 PM
They didnt have nuclear weapons either in their possession or aimed at them...

Whether or not he's the WORST president in the history of the US, he's still the most dangerous.

EXACTLY MY POINT! Thank you.

I am sorry.. I am such a speech person that I much rather bleed profusly from my ears and eyes than listen to another one of his state of the union addresses.

Man people go off about my Bush comments but nothing about the fact that we are being sheep hearded off a cliff like lemmings?
Hmmm...

Tessana aka MG

RickLM
08-10-2006, 08:09 PM
EXACTLY MY POINT! Thank you.

I am sorry.. I am such a speech person that I much rather bleed profusly from my ears and eyes than listen to another one of his state of the union addresses.

Man people go off about my Bush comments but nothing about the fact that we are being sheep hearded off a cliff like lemmings?
Hmmm...

Tessana aka MG


Why don't you start an advocacy group, or stage an anti-war or anti-poverty march? Or run for office? There are lots of ways in this country to get your views out there, and to make an impact.

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 08:11 PM
Talk about conspiracy theories, huh.

Hmm. My idea of hollywood and the bush admin in bed together---you think that is a conspiracy theory?

I am a film and sociology student. I just finished writing a huge paper about this for my social problems class. The proof is in the media in numerous of articles (if you know how to dig them up) from the NY Times, The chicago trib, the dallas morning star, even... yes--- the south china morning post (ive been using that paper as a citation for about 5 years now). THAT---and the fact of look at the box office numbers. why didn't the comic industry work with films in the early 90's? look at the batman films that came out in the late 80's early 90s. All very spooky (or 90 mintue long gay jokes) but the burton films (who is known for underlying meaning in his films), were a great representation of the climate of the society's feelings on the government (can't trust clinton...he lied to us about monica!). Then all of sudden, 2001 on we get a HUGE influx of Harry potter, LOTR, Spidey etc etc. Time did a wonderful article on that late 2001.

I think you believe that this sounds like a conspiracy because its hard to believe- I can see where that could be troubling for someone- but start reading between the lines. Look outside of our media, and you will see what I see.

No one is watching the watchmen. :)

Tessana aka MG

jza1218
08-10-2006, 08:12 PM
Kennedy tried to invade Cuba and failed and all anyone seems to talk about him is that he screwed Marilyn Monroe and got shot.

He was a pretty average President but the general public put him on a pedestal even though he had only two years of service and didn't accomplish much.

Ryan Elliott
08-10-2006, 08:15 PM
Hmm. My idea of hollywood and the bush admin in bed together---you think that is a conspiracy theory?

I am a film and sociology student. I just finished writing a huge paper about this for my social problems class. The proof is in the media in numerous of articles (if you know how to dig them up) from the NY Times, The chicago trib, the dallas morning star, even... yes--- the south china morning post (ive been using that paper as a citation for about 5 years now). THAT---and the fact of look at the box office numbers. why didn't the comic industry work with films in the early 90's? look at the batman films that came out in the late 80's early 90s. All very spooky (or 90 mintue long gay jokes) but the burton films (who is known for underlying meaning in his films), were a great representation of the climate of the society's feelings on the government (can't trust clinton...he lied to us about monica!). Then all of sudden, 2001 on we get a HUGE influx of Harry potter, LOTR, Spidey etc etc. Time did a wonderful article on that late 2001.

I think you believe that this sounds like a conspiracy because its hard to believe- I can see where that could be troubling for someone- but start reading between the lines. Look outside of our media, and you will see what I see.
No one is watching the watchmen. :)

Tessana aka MG


Which pill should I take Morpheus? :roll:

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 08:16 PM
You don't sound dooms-day-y. You just sound uninformed....

Please explain before I rant for no reason. I am so sick of people in my generation blindly following one media outlet (i.e. they only watch CNN if that). EVERY MEDIA OUTLET is biased in one way or the other.

I look at everything, and then look outside the box (this country) and piece things together myself. I read at least 5 newspapers a day (3 US 2 non us-- at least) and i am starting to live by the BBC.

I think, dear friend, you are uninformed.

Tessana aka MG

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 08:19 PM
Why don't you start an advocacy group, or stage an anti-war or anti-poverty march? Or run for office? There are lots of ways in this country to get your views out there, and to make an impact.

Yeah, I am in my own way by throwing these thoughts out here... running for office? I just choked on my coffee laughing. Right now we are stuck being run by two parties that are the same sides of the coin. A third party doesn't work here (unfortantly) AND on top of that...a women running for any kind of office..esp in Chicago ....i would have an easier time finding bin laden.

Tessana aka MG

saymama
08-10-2006, 08:20 PM
EXACTLY MY POINT! Thank you.

I am sorry.. I am such a speech person that I much rather bleed profusly from my ears and eyes than listen to another one of his state of the union addresses.

Man people go off about my Bush comments but nothing about the fact that we are being sheep hearded off a cliff like lemmings?
Hmmm...

Tessana aka MG

wait, hon, I'm not a sheep. I made a decision when I voted and i think I made a very educated and wise decision. I know many don't agree. Do i agree with everything that happens? No. But I don't do things that my friends agree with all the time. The man does not have an easy job. But he's not exactly doing it alone. Theres a whole congress and senate that have a hand in all of this as well!

And let's look at the other side of it. Had we not voted him in the first place go back and realize just how many things you wouldn't have that you have right now. I don't want someone to tell me what is best for me and what should be censored for the better of MY children.

The simple fact is, no matter who is sitting in the oval office there is always someone that will disagree with them and swear we are all going to hell because of them.

And yes, i agree with the other person that said love it or leave it. You don't like it, hop your happy ass on a plane and go someplace else. I'd love to the Bush haters not live in the land of the free!

I love my country! While I do not agree in all things done in this office, I can not spit in the face of the soliders that do believe in what they do or those that have given their lives for what they believe in. I must wave my flag proudly and do my best to not spew ignorance without substantial and legitimate facts behind opinions.

My children have chances in the country that other special needs children will never have because their country does not have a govt in place that can offer them serivces to better their lives. I can only hope that through my education and love of my country I can give back and better this world instead of typing hate and spinning my wheels while doing nothing about anything.

jza1218
08-10-2006, 08:20 PM
Yeah, I am in my own way by throwing these thoughts out here... running for office? I just choked on my coffee laughing. Right now we are stuck being run by two parties that are the same sides of the coin. A third party doesn't work here (unfortantly) AND on top of that...a women running for any kind of office..esp in Chicago ....i would have an easier time finding bin laden.

Tessana aka MG

Its that kind of thinking that prevents change.

saymama
08-10-2006, 08:25 PM
Hmm. My idea of hollywood and the bush admin in bed together---you think that is a conspiracy theory?

I am a film and sociology student. I just finished writing a huge paper about this for my social problems class. The proof is in the media in numerous of articles (if you know how to dig them up) from the NY Times, The chicago trib, the dallas morning star, even... yes--- the south china morning post (ive been using that paper as a citation for about 5 years now). THAT---and the fact of look at the box office numbers. why didn't the comic industry work with films in the early 90's? look at the batman films that came out in the late 80's early 90s. All very spooky (or 90 mintue long gay jokes) but the burton films (who is known for underlying meaning in his films), were a great representation of the climate of the society's feelings on the government (can't trust clinton...he lied to us about monica!). Then all of sudden, 2001 on we get a HUGE influx of Harry potter, LOTR, Spidey etc etc. Time did a wonderful article on that late 2001.

I think you believe that this sounds like a conspiracy because its hard to believe- I can see where that could be troubling for someone- but start reading between the lines. Look outside of our media, and you will see what I see.

No one is watching the watchmen. :)

Tessana aka MG

WTF? you just totally lost all creds....how do you go from saying that bush is the worst pres to box office projections? To say that is connected is just....i don't even have words......harry potter and spiderman....connected to the conspiracy of the oil prices and war.....girl go get some sleep!

Ryan Elliott
08-10-2006, 08:25 PM
Its that kind of thinking that prevents change.



Yeah.



"It's almost probably impossible, so I'll give up before I even start."

Ryan F
08-10-2006, 08:25 PM
The hysteria that surrounds this President is pretty crazy. I think in five years Bush will practically be a footnote.

The mood and prospects of this country have changed more since Bush's election than they had in the previous 22 years of my life. Bush will be much more than a footnote.

Jamie
08-10-2006, 08:25 PM
I live my life by the bbc. I am still dumb as a post but the weather and sports are good

Smokinblues
08-10-2006, 08:27 PM
You my dear Brian, is what cheers me up when I get in a mood like this. :)

Still, i am thinking about my "group therapy" discussion from last night. 5 of my friends and I were going in circles about what is the cause of this problem. My pinpoint is the media.

See, the way I learned my US history is that the media was suppose to be the 4th estate in this country. They are suppose to call the government into question.
Kinda hard to do that when the whos who of Hollywood was meeting with the Bush Admin. hours after 9/11 (on 9/13 to be exact) to see what they could to do 'help'. The bush admin wanted to throw these 'good vs bad' ideals into the mainstream thinking- hence the flood of fantasy and superhero pics lately. (which i have mixed feelings on... its great material to use, but i think the superhero movies are being greenlighted through the hollywood system to support this idea).

Then on top of it, the news media is only producing what the government wants us to hear. I understand this to a certain degree due to national security issues and such, but my god can one get an eye full by looking at what the Europeans (The BBC) and Mexico have for film footage.

Then to top it all off- you have people in this country with great creditbility saying that 9/11 is this huge conspiracy theroy. GIVE ME A BREAK (my one question for those thinking this- where have the dead been for the last 5 years?)

Tessana aka MG

ok the whole hollywood thing is just silly. most of these moviees that are "just coming out" have been in development for yeaaaaaaaaars. The meeting with the government and hollywood was well publicized, and was simply the government getting possible terrorist scenarios from writers that they may not have envisioned themselves. Superman, Batman, Spider Man Xmen - i.e. the great majority of superhero films in recent years were all franchises being produced before that meeting took place. Even things like the star wars movies and LOTR and Harry Potter, to say that hollywood and the government are in cahoots with this stuff to distract us all is just crazy talk.

as far as people being sheep? no more now than ever really.

saymama
08-10-2006, 08:28 PM
Yeah, I am in my own way by throwing these thoughts out here... running for office? I just choked on my coffee laughing. Right now we are stuck being run by two parties that are the same sides of the coin. A third party doesn't work here (unfortantly) AND on top of that...a women running for any kind of office..esp in Chicago ....i would have an easier time finding bin laden.

Tessana aka MG

I could run for office and win....you all just have to keep your chicago pics a secret!:Oops:

JoeE
08-10-2006, 08:29 PM
All very spooky (or 90 mintue long gay jokes) but the burton films (who is known for underlying meaning in his films), were a great representation of the climate of the society's feelings on the government (can't trust clinton...he lied to us about monica!).

Your argument would be stronger if the Burton films coincided with the Clinton administration. Both were released before Clinton was elected.

batmanbooyah
08-10-2006, 08:32 PM
this is one convoluted thread.

1: you can't blame everything on bush, he pulls strings as well as gets pulled as well. there's no one person you can blame, it's systemic.

2: you can't say something like "love it or leave it." imagine for a second if the founding fathers were told that and left.

there are a lot of proud americans in this thread, on both sides of the coin. but america is just a plot of land. it's filled with beautiful people though. people in iran and iraq are no less human than you or me.

saymama
08-10-2006, 08:35 PM
this is one convoluted thread.

1: you can't blame everything on bush, he pulls strings as well as gets pulled as well. there's no one person you can blame, it's systemic.

2: you can't say something like "love it or leave it." imagine for a second if the founding fathers were told that and left.

there are a lot of proud americans in this thread, on both sides of the coin. but america is just a plot of land. it's filled with beautiful people though. people in iran and iraq are no less human than you or me.

our founding fathers were told that.....that's why we have a UNITED STATES.

I agree that we are no better than anyone else. But because of where I live I am given more opportunities in life for myself and my children.

RickLM
08-10-2006, 08:36 PM
Yeah, I am in my own way by throwing these thoughts out here... running for office? I just choked on my coffee laughing. Right now we are stuck being run by two parties that are the same sides of the coin. A third party doesn't work here (unfortantly) AND on top of that...a women running for any kind of office..esp in Chicago ....i would have an easier time finding bin laden.

Tessana aka MG


I lived in Chicago and saw plenty of female aldermen on city council. Women running for every kind of office, in this day and age, isn't laughable, its normal.

You sound incredibly cynical, which is usually a cover for someone who is too passive or afraid to get involved. If you don't want to join a political party, fine, then raise money for AIDS research. I've spent 15 years in fundraising, several years in politics, and I think the idea that you can't do anything is ludicrous. Some places are begging for volunteers. Although if you'd rather sit in a coffeeshop and smoke, go ahead, but quit whining.

JoeE
08-10-2006, 08:36 PM
there are a lot of proud americans in this thread, on both sides of the coin. but america is just a plot of land. it's filled with beautiful people though. people in iran and iraq are no less human than you or me.

Not true. They have slanty vaginas and do not fear the Lord.

JoeE
08-10-2006, 08:37 PM
2: you can't say something like "love it or leave it." imagine for a second if the founding fathers were told that and left.

Actually, the Founding Fathers were the ones who didn't "leave it." There were tons of people in similar positions to them that did, in fact, not love the new status quo, and therefore left it.

Ryan Elliott
08-10-2006, 08:42 PM
I lived in Chicago and saw plenty of female aldermen on city council. Women running for every kind of office, in this day and age, isn't laughable, its normal.

You sound incredibly cynical, which is usually a cover for someone who is too passive or afraid to get involved. If you don't want to join a political party, fine, then raise money for AIDS research. I've spent 15 years in fundraising, several years in politics, and I think the idea that you can't do anything is ludicrous. Some places are begging for volunteers. Although if you'd rather sit in a coffeeshop and smoke, go ahead, but quit whining.


Booyah.

batmanbooyah
08-10-2006, 08:42 PM
yes, but you said:


And yes, i agree with the other person that said love it or leave it. You don't like it, hop your happy ass on a plane and go someplace else. I'd love to the Bush haters not live in the land of the free!


if the founding fathers didn't like it, should they have hopped their happy ass on a boat and go somewhere else? would people have loved if the king
haters had left?

before you get mad :D i'm not attacking you. you seem very angry at the reactions people have. and know what? people are mad at your reactions, it's a human emotion.

but blaming bush, or blaming protesters, etc. won't get anyone anywhere. getting bush out of office won't automatically taking funding away from certain programs. it's all cyclical. other periods of history showed lower subsidies for college, while other times showed the government putting more into education. it's just a wave.


our nations wealth is irrevocably tied to its military. some people are saying "leave iraq! leave afghanistan!" but if you leave everywhere, the US won't be in control of certain countries. hell we still have bases in Japan for Christ's sake. you can't have one without the other.

we want our luxuries, but we also want to end suffering. sorry people, a lot of our luxuries come from other people's suffering. either we thrive and someone suffers, or we all suffer. it's a choice us as a people have to make. (this rant goes to both sides and is brought to you by the letter " ┘"

Persevering Guy
08-10-2006, 08:42 PM
If we caught Bin Laden, who would be the enemy?

I think Bush will get him just before he steps out of office. On purpose.

As for the empire, do you know how many military bases we have around the world?

batmanbooyah
08-10-2006, 08:43 PM
Booyah.


what.

batmanbooyah
08-10-2006, 08:44 PM
Not true. They have slanty vaginas and do not fear the Lord.


I for one love slanty vaginas!

Ryan Elliott
08-10-2006, 08:47 PM
Hmm. I wonder where she went?

RickLM
08-10-2006, 08:49 PM
Hmm. I wonder where she went?


She's looking at a photo of George Bush, and saying, "You talking to me? Are you? Are YOU talking to ME?"

saymama
08-10-2006, 08:51 PM
yes, but you said:



if the founding fathers didn't like it, should they have hopped their happy ass on a boat and go somewhere else? would people have loved if the king
haters had left?

before you get mad :D i'm not attacking you. you seem very angry at the reactions people have. and know what? people are mad at your reactions, it's a human emotion.

but blaming bush, or blaming protesters, etc. won't get anyone anywhere. getting bush out of office won't automatically taking funding away from certain programs. it's all cyclical. other periods of history showed lower subsidies for college, while other times showed the government putting more into education. it's just a wave.


our nations wealth is irrevocably tied to its military. some people are saying "leave iraq! leave afghanistan!" but if you leave everywhere, the US won't be in control of certain countries. hell we still have bases in Japan for Christ's sake. you can't have one without the other.

we want our luxuries, but we also want to end suffering. sorry people, a lot of our luxuries come from other people's suffering. either we thrive and someone suffers, or we all suffer. it's a choice us as a people have to make. (this rant goes to both sides and is brought to you by the letter " ┘"

i'm not mad, I think you are taking me the wrong way or you are confusing me with tess. I agree with what you are saying.

About the love it or leave it thing...Those that crossed the atlantic did leave it. That's why we are all here in the great USA today. So I get a bit annoyed when someone sits there and points fingers and blames everyone else for nothing going "right" or getting fixed but does nothing about it. You don' t like it, do something to better the world or go away. it's that simple!

Persevering Guy
08-10-2006, 08:52 PM
And yes, i agree with the other person that said love it or leave it. You don't like it, hop your happy ass on a plane and go someplace else. I'd love to the Bush haters not live in the land of the free!

done.

but seriously, that way of thinking is "sheepish"

Why should people have to accept something that they can see is wrong for them. I'll tell you, as someone who lives outside of America, because of Bush, much of the world does not like America, now.

Ryan Elliott
08-10-2006, 08:55 PM
She's looking at a photo of George Bush, and saying, "You talking to me? Are you? Are YOU talking to ME?"




:rofl:

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 08:55 PM
wait, hon, I'm not a sheep. I made a decision when I voted and i think I made a very educated and wise decision. I know many don't agree. Do i agree with everything that happens? No. But I don't do things that my friends agree with all the time. The man does not have an easy job. But he's not exactly doing it alone. Theres a whole congress and senate that have a hand in all of this as well!

And let's look at the other side of it. Had we not voted him in the first place go back and realize just how many things you wouldn't have that you have right now. I don't want someone to tell me what is best for me and what should be censored for the better of MY children.

The simple fact is, no matter who is sitting in the oval office there is always someone that will disagree with them and swear we are all going to hell because of them.

And yes, i agree with the other person that said love it or leave it. You don't like it, hop your happy ass on a plane and go someplace else. I'd love to the Bush haters not live in the land of the free!

I love my country! While I do not agree in all things done in this office, I can not spit in the face of the soliders that do believe in what they do or those that have given their lives for what they believe in. I must wave my flag proudly and do my best to not spew ignorance without substantial and legitimate facts behind opinions.

My children have chances in the country that other special needs children will never have because their country does not have a govt in place that can offer them serivces to better their lives. I can only hope that through my education and love of my country I can give back and better this world instead of typing hate and spinning my wheels while doing nothing about anything.


First off- I made a decision too. The last time I checked this country was founded on the freedom of religion and expression. I think as a member of this country that I have the right- no- the duty to call into question my government. I voted for Bush the first time around, and then Kerry. Do I have a problem stating that? No. Even if I know for fact that I am on a watch list (most of which are for the anti- Bush and unpatriotic postings that I made on this very web board.

With that being said... my family is full fledge army. I have three uncles that are cops, and my father both served in the Army and as a federal cop for 28 years before he passed away. On 9/11 my heart bled- i knew what it was going to be like when those kids came home and realized that everyone they knew is gone..that the moment they have been dreading bc mom or dad or whoever was a cop, firefighter or EMT finally happened... they weren't coming home.

The icing was the fact that the pentagon- that symbol that my family worked for- was hit. It was the knife in my heart twisting. I morned for not only the people I personally knew that suffered that day, but also for all the service personal that died, and since then in this too vague 'war on terror'. I cannot spit in the faces of the soliders, in part because that is not only insulting to my father's memory, but also to them. I know for fact a number of people going to Iraq and Afganistan do not believe in this war. Maybe not every single solider etc that goes there, but there are a sig. number that do it because its their job... or as my dad use to say "I have to respect the office, but not the man inside of it".


I agree that Kerry would have done the same things as Bush as doing now, but not to the the degree. There is a bill being passed through the House now, on its way to the senate started (unfortantly by my state rep) Rep. Kirk that states that during times of war that the local PD have the right to disarm the local citizens- basically taking our right away to bare arms. Of course, the people who get their guns taken away are the responsible registered gun owners...
If this passes, we are now offically Hitler Germany. Or did everyone forget that is how Hitler gain power? took the guns the started killing the disabled, then the homosexuals and gypsies...the the jews and everyone else. I am NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT comparing Bush to Hitler, but he is coming damn to close.

Tessana aka MG

saymama
08-10-2006, 08:55 PM
done.

but seriously, that way of thinking is "sheepish"

Why should people have to accept something that they can see is wrong for them. I'll tell you, as someone who lives outside of America, because of Bush, much of the world does not like America, now.

it's not so much sheepish, it's that I hear all the negativity, but i see no one talking about solutions to anything. So, I'd pretty much rather them shutup, do something positive or get the fuck out of dodge!

justjeffery
08-10-2006, 08:56 PM
I think we should avoid political threads and just post more pics of hot chicks and stuff

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 08:57 PM
Its that kind of thinking that prevents change.
I personally think this. This country is so obessed with Hollywood-- that thanks to "Commander in Chief" that we will actually have a women in the presidency first before any racial or other minority.

Yippee! I think just by putting the thought out there will spark at least ONE person to go...wait a mintue... i didn't see that viewpoint before...

Tessana aka MG

batmanbooyah
08-10-2006, 08:57 PM
i'm not mad, I think you are taking me the wrong way or you are confusing me with tess. I agree with what you are saying.

About the love it or leave it thing...Those that crossed the atlantic did leave it. That's why we are all here in the great USA today. So I get a bit annoyed when someone sits there and points fingers and blames everyone else for nothing going "right" or getting fixed but does nothing about it. You don' t like it, do something to better the world or go away. it's that simple!


no no, i got what you're saying, and respect you for it. george washington wasn't living in england the entire time and moved over. the PILGRIMS did the whole "love it or leave it thing." Washington didn't love it, so he changed it.

NATE!
08-10-2006, 08:57 PM
America: Tits or GTFO.

batmanbooyah
08-10-2006, 08:57 PM
I think we should avoid political threads and just post more pics of hot chicks and stuff


with slanted vaginas!

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 08:59 PM
WTF? you just totally lost all creds....how do you go from saying that bush is the worst pres to box office projections? To say that is connected is just....i don't even have words......harry potter and spiderman....connected to the conspiracy of the oil prices and war.....girl go get some sleep!
My laptop battery is slowing dying here and its nearly midnight... I shall clarify tomorrow... thanks for telling me.

:)

Yes I am crazy... but the good crazy! Like sugar and caffenine high crazy.

Tessana aka MG

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:00 PM
I live my life by the bbc. I am still dumb as a post but the weather and sports are good
JAMIE!!!!!
It was great hanging out with you at the con. OF course you would live by the BBC... duh..
How are the kids?

Tessana aka MG

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:01 PM
I could run for office and win....you all just have to keep your chicago pics a secret!:Oops:


Yeah.. this coming from you with your avatar.. and you call me crazy :) LOL

Tessana aka MG

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:02 PM
this is one convoluted thread.

1: you can't blame everything on bush, he pulls strings as well as gets pulled as well. there's no one person you can blame, it's systemic.

2: you can't say something like "love it or leave it." imagine for a second if the founding fathers were told that and left.

there are a lot of proud americans in this thread, on both sides of the coin. but america is just a plot of land. it's filled with beautiful people though. people in iran and iraq are no less human than you or me.


I agree with you whole heartly- but go re-read my first post. I am blaming the US media for spewing and spinning the mess.

Tessana aka MG

jza1218
08-10-2006, 09:03 PM
I personally think this. This country is so obessed with Hollywood-- that thanks to "Commander in Chief" that we will actually have a women in the presidency first before any racial or other minority.

Yippee! I think just by putting the thought out there will spark at least ONE person to go...wait a mintue... i didn't see that viewpoint before...

Tessana aka MG

Politically, I dont think that this country cares about Hollywood. If that were true, Kerry would be in the White House due to Michael Moore.

Ryan Elliott
08-10-2006, 09:05 PM
I think we should avoid political threads and just post more pics of hot chicks and stuff



...



*bows*

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:05 PM
I lived in Chicago and saw plenty of female aldermen on city council. Women running for every kind of office, in this day and age, isn't laughable, its normal.

You sound incredibly cynical, which is usually a cover for someone who is too passive or afraid to get involved. If you don't want to join a political party, fine, then raise money for AIDS research. I've spent 15 years in fundraising, several years in politics, and I think the idea that you can't do anything is ludicrous. Some places are begging for volunteers. Although if you'd rather sit in a coffeeshop and smoke, go ahead, but quit whining.


Oh I do my own thing. The other day, I ditched work to go yell and protest at Rep. Kirk for being a dickhead. :)

The problem with the fundrasing is that I personally have been affected by organizations that claim to get funding for research to X problem, in particular the American Cancer Society. I cannot support an organization that doesn't fund money to everyone effected, not just the people that they think that need the money most (yes completly personal... sorry... that's just me).

Tessana aka MG

saymama
08-10-2006, 09:06 PM
First off- I made a decision too. The last time I checked this country was founded on the freedom of religion and expression. I think as a member of this country that I have the right- no- the duty to call into question my government. I voted for Bush the first time around, and then Kerry. Do I have a problem stating that? No. Even if I know for fact that I am on a watch list (most of which are for the anti- Bush and unpatriotic postings that I made on this very web board.

With that being said... my family is full fledge army. I have three uncles that are cops, and my father both served in the Army and as a federal cop for 28 years before he passed away. On 9/11 my heart bled- i knew what it was going to be like when those kids came home and realized that everyone they knew is gone..that the moment they have been dreading bc mom or dad or whoever was a cop, firefighter or EMT finally happened... they weren't coming home.

The icing was the fact that the pentagon- that symbol that my family worked for- was hit. It was the knife in my heart twisting. I morned for not only the people I personally knew that suffered that day, but also for all the service personal that died, and since then in this too vague 'war on terror'. I cannot spit in the faces of the soliders, in part because that is not only insulting to my father's memory, but also to them. I know for fact a number of people going to Iraq and Afganistan do not believe in this war. Maybe not every single solider etc that goes there, but there are a sig. number that do it because its their job... or as my dad use to say "I have to respect the office, but not the man inside of it".


I agree that Kerry would have done the same things as Bush as doing now, but not to the the degree. There is a bill being passed through the House now, on its way to the senate started (unfortantly by my state rep) Rep. Kirk that states that during times of war that the local PD have the right to disarm the local citizens- basically taking our right away to bare arms. Of course, the people who get their guns taken away are the responsible registered gun owners...
If this passes, we are now offically Hitler Germany. Or did everyone forget that is how Hitler gain power? took the guns the started killing the disabled, then the homosexuals and gypsies...the the jews and everyone else. I am NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT comparing Bush to Hitler, but he is coming damn to close.

Tessana aka MG
Even if I know for fact that I am on a watch list (most of which are for the anti- Bush and unpatriotic postings that I made on this very web board.

omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and you know this for a fact, huh?

all i hear is blah blah blah...

The pentagon is a symbol for everyone.

My dad was firefighter. I cried for those families too. you are talking in circles. what does that have to do with your earlier statements.

You keep skirting around the issue of why you started this thread in the first place. you are saying alot of things, but rarely have any actual instances that provide any real creedance to your stand. Your shouting feelings with nothing to back it up with.

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:07 PM
If we caught Bin Laden, who would be the enemy?

I think Bush will get him just before he steps out of office. On purpose.

As for the empire, do you know how many military bases we have around the world?

Yeah.. that's probably what would happen. But my thing is this. I think either Bin Laden is hiding in Saudi Arabia (because the fact that he a birth citizen and the fact that the Saudi's have been very wishy washy) or the fact that he is dead as a doornail and uncle sam will forever have the 'boogeyman' to this war.

Tessana aka MG

saymama
08-10-2006, 09:08 PM
Oh I do my own thing. The other day, I ditched work to go yell and protest at Rep. Kirk for being a dickhead. :)

The problem with the fundrasing is that I personally have been affected by organizations that claim to get funding for research to X problem, in particular the American Cancer Society. I cannot support an organization that doesn't fund money to everyone effected, not just the people that they think that need the money most (yes completly personal... sorry... that's just me).

Tessana aka MG

good work there...things are changing fast because you yelled at a dickhead...the only thing to come from this is that you will be late on your bills because you missed work!

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:10 PM
done.

but seriously, that way of thinking is "sheepish"

Why should people have to accept something that they can see is wrong for them. I'll tell you, as someone who lives outside of America, because of Bush, much of the world does not like America, now.


Another point- he has totally ruined us as one of the superpowers on the world stage. I sware, if Britian leaves us as an Alley (which sounds like it will happen)the US is fucked 6 ways from sunday.

Tessana aka MG

JoeE
08-10-2006, 09:10 PM
As far as I'm aware current intelligence holds that bin Laden is likely in Pakistan. Which seems more likely than Saudi Arabia; he would have been able to more easily slip into Pakistan undetected and hide there than Saudi Arabia.

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:14 PM
Politically, I dont think that this country cares about Hollywood. If that were true, Kerry would be in the White House due to Michael Moore.
Good arguement- but the problem with that was that we as a country were still backing Bush etc. That and alot of people got pissed at moore for his acceptance speech at the oscars earlier when he won for Bowling for Columbine.

That and anyone with two brain cells rubbed together can realize the problems in any of Moores films.

Tessana aka MG

Greenville 90210
08-10-2006, 09:14 PM
The hysteria that surrounds this President is pretty crazy. I think in five years Bush will practically be a footnote.

He can't. Too much has happened in this country on his watch...

saymama
08-10-2006, 09:14 PM
There is a bill being passed through the House now, on its way to the senate started (unfortantly by my state rep) Rep. Kirk that states that during times of war that the local PD have the right to disarm the local citizens- basically taking our right away to bare arms. Of course, the people who get their guns taken away are the responsible registered gun owners...
If this passes, we are now offically Hitler Germany. Or did everyone forget that is how Hitler gain power? took the guns the started killing the disabled, then the homosexuals and gypsies...the the jews and everyone else. I am NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT comparing Bush to Hitler, but he is coming damn to close.

Tessana aka MG

see, you aren't even staying on track....This is Mr. Kirk...not the president.

what?

jza1218
08-10-2006, 09:16 PM
Good arguement- but the problem with that was that we as a country were still backing Bush etc. That and alot of people got pissed at moore for his acceptance speech at the oscars earlier when he won for Bowling for Columbine.

That and anyone with two brain cells rubbed together can realize the problems in any of Moores films.

Tessana aka MG

Not a lot of voters have that second brain cell to rub IMO...

JoeE
08-10-2006, 09:16 PM
There is a bill being passed through the House now, on its way to the senate started (unfortantly by my state rep) Rep. Kirk that states that during times of war that the local PD have the right to disarm the local citizens- basically taking our right away to bare arms. Of course, the people who get their guns taken away are the responsible registered gun owners...
If this passes, we are now offically Hitler Germany. Or did everyone forget that is how Hitler gain power? took the guns the started killing the disabled, then the homosexuals and gypsies...the the jews and everyone else. I am NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT comparing Bush to Hitler, but he is coming damn to close.

Can you provide a source for this bill? I'm skeptical about these things unless I can read their specifics myself.

Jamie
08-10-2006, 09:19 PM
Another point- he has totally ruined us as one of the superpowers on the world stage. I sware, if Britian leaves us as an Alley (which sounds like it will happen)the US is fucked 6 ways from sunday.

Tessana aka MG
you are the only super power left in the world. no other country is capable of fighting a war to the scale of what america are. also as for the uk leaving you as a allie never going to happen

Brad N.
08-10-2006, 09:20 PM
What the blue hell is going on in here? Reading these posts remind me of a time I dropped acid in high school. Ray, can you hold my hand?

JoeE
08-10-2006, 09:21 PM
The UK actually shares nuclear missiles with the United States - the military base at King's Bay stores British nukes in addition to American ones. It's unusual for countries, even allies, to share military technology period, but it's otherwise unheard of to actually share nuclear weapons. The Anglo-American alliance isn't going to go away just because George W. Bush is a twit.

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:22 PM
Even if I know for fact that I am on a watch list (most of which are for the anti- Bush and unpatriotic postings that I made on this very web board.

omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and you know this for a fact, huh?

all i hear is blah blah blah...

The pentagon is a symbol for everyone.

My dad was firefighter. I cried for those families too. you are talking in circles. what does that have to do with your earlier statements.

You keep skirting around the issue of why you started this thread in the first place. you are saying alot of things, but rarely have any actual instances that provide any real creedance to your stand. Your shouting feelings with nothing to back it up with.


Tonia, I hope you realize that I have nothing but the upmost respect for you and Jeff.

However, as far as me knowing I am on watch list, i found this out when my best friend was detained for 3 hours in miami last year on her way back from the carribean. Why would a half irish half italian chicago girl be detained? She was at the time a criminal justice major and writing a number of papers on bin laden etc etc.
A VERY long story short, in the mess of her being detained and the Feds verifying her background, I was called. Shortly after talking to them I called one of my uncles (a detective on GTA/internet crimes for the state of IL) and told him what happened.
Uncle Sam has a star system. After 4 stars on your record, when leaving/entering the US, you will be detained and questioned. In this case, with my best friend and all her research they finally realized that she is 'just a harmless student' (ironically she is planning on working for uncle sam on terrorist shit...) She had 6 stars. I have 3 at the moment. I found this out through the grapevine of both my family and my dad's old partner (who has federal clearance).
I don't want to go into anymore detail than that, heaven forbid if someone actually pulls this post. Hell, they had my best friend's library pulls on a report she did in the 6th grade on saudi arabia.

I think i am going in circles now in part of too much coffee and I got the thoughts in my head, but I can't get them down right on this board. I started the orginal rant just because of the conversation with my friends last night. I was still pissy about all of the world (and even more so today with the 10 plane plot exposed. That was an orginal plan that Bin laden was attempting to do way back when.. i'll get the actual book tomorrow with the info in it from said friend and post it here on the board).

If I can't get another post through tonight, its because my battery offically died, but I will come back tomorrow when I am bored as hell at work.

Tessana aka MG

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:24 PM
Not a lot of voters have that second brain cell to rub IMO...


VERY GOOD POINT! Why? because we are all being sheep hearded. ;)

Tessana aka MG

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:24 PM
Can you provide a source for this bill? I'm skeptical about these things unless I can read their specifics myself.
Defintaly- I'll post it in the morning.. all the info is on my work computer.

:)

Tessana aka MG

andrew french
08-10-2006, 09:25 PM
honestly, i don't know if something as elaborate as this watch list, movie industry stuff is possible.

saymama
08-10-2006, 09:25 PM
to anymore detail than that, heaven forbid if someone actually pulls this post.

Tessana aka MG

yes, we should keep you safe by all means!:roll:

ah, hell! I'm going watch porn or fuck my husband or something.....who actually is on a federal list for having an explosive license! It's expired now...

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:26 PM
you are the only super power left in the world. no other country is capable of fighting a war to the scale of what america are. also as for the uk leaving you as a alley never going to happen


Well.. i say you are leaving us because of all the crap I am seeing stateside in the media. What's going on over there? Is there still alot of anti american ideals going? i remember seeing something about people protesting something Blair was doing to help us right before i left for the con, but I haven't been able to backtrack it yet.
:)
Tessana aka MG

NATE!
08-10-2006, 09:27 PM
VERY GOOD POINT! Why? because we are all being sheep hearded. ;)

Tessana aka MG

Herded like sheep.

Ryan Elliott
08-10-2006, 09:28 PM
When I'm old enough and able to, I'm moving to either Canada, Australia, or London.






God Bless America.

andrew french
08-10-2006, 09:28 PM
i'm gonna move to canada!

let's get a studio apartment, bats.

justjeffery
08-10-2006, 09:30 PM
yes, we should keep you safe by all means!:roll:

ah, hell! I'm going watch porn or fuck my husband or something.....who actually is on a federal list for having an explosive license! It's expired now...

Actually, Im on the list for checking out the Satanic Bible and Mein Kamph... my explosives liscense was held up for months because of my track record at the library. This I know as FACT.

Now lets fuck. :twisted:

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:30 PM
When I'm old enough and able to, I'm moving to either Canada, Australia, or London.






God Bless America.


I decided that after I am done with film school i'll either go to London (I have a few friends out there) or Germany (some family out there, and since i took 6 years of German in school it should get used!)

Tessana aka MG

Kensington
08-10-2006, 09:31 PM
wait, hon, I'm not a sheep. I made a decision when I voted and i think I made a very educated and wise decision. I know many don't agree. Do i agree with everything that happens? No. But I don't do things that my friends agree with all the time. The man does not have an easy job. But he's not exactly doing it alone. Theres a whole congress and senate that have a hand in all of this as well!

And let's look at the other side of it. Had we not voted him in the first place go back and realize just how many things you wouldn't have that you have right now. I don't want someone to tell me what is best for me and what should be censored for the better of MY children.

The simple fact is, no matter who is sitting in the oval office there is always someone that will disagree with them and swear we are all going to hell because of them.

And yes, i agree with the other person that said love it or leave it. You don't like it, hop your happy ass on a plane and go someplace else. I'd love to the Bush haters not live in the land of the free!

I love my country! While I do not agree in all things done in this office, I can not spit in the face of the soliders that do believe in what they do or those that have given their lives for what they believe in. I must wave my flag proudly and do my best to not spew ignorance without substantial and legitimate facts behind opinions.

My children have chances in the country that other special needs children will never have because their country does not have a govt in place that can offer them serivces to better their lives. I can only hope that through my education and love of my country I can give back and better this world instead of typing hate and spinning my wheels while doing nothing about anything.:heart::happy::heart:

saymama
08-10-2006, 09:32 PM
Well.. i say you are leaving us because of all the crap I am seeing stateside in the media. What's going on over there? Is there still alot of anti american ideals going? i remember seeing something about people protesting something Blair was doing to help us right before i left for the con, but I haven't been able to backtrack it yet.
:)
Tessana aka MG

okay I said, i was going watch porn...but...how can you sit there and say that OUR media is biased, but then read another counrty's media and take it for fact. I am aghast that you have the nerve to call me a sheep and yet you just said that.

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:32 PM
Actually, Im on the list for checking out the Satanic Bible and Mein Kamph... my explosives liscense was held up for months because of my track record at the library. This I know as FACT.

Now lets fuck. :twisted:


ROFL

That reminds me something that my buddy ken (a sociologist) said last night

"Bush is just raping us, at least kerry would have given us dinner and a hard fuck"

battery next to dead.. this sucks.

Tessana aka MG

Jamie
08-10-2006, 09:35 PM
Well.. i say you are leaving us because of all the crap I am seeing stateside in the media. What's going on over there? Is there still alot of anti american ideals going? i remember seeing something about people protesting something Blair was doing to help us right before i left for the con, but I haven't been able to backtrack it yet.
:)
Tessana aka MG
no still love you like brothers. we don't protest we drink tea and eat scones.

saymama
08-10-2006, 09:37 PM
no still love you like brothers. we don't protest we drink tea and eat scones.

i'd drink tea with you:twisted:!!! Just ask jeffery!

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:38 PM
okay I said, i was going watch porn...but...how can you sit there and say that OUR media is biased, but then read another counrty's media and take it for fact. I am aghast that you have the nerve to call me a sheep and yet you just said that.
WHOA WAIT A SECOND.. I Didn't say that... please, it is coming across as you are putting words in my mouth..

I know somewhere in this mess I said that I read at least 5 papers a day (its a hold over from when I was competiting in forensics). These are both US and non US papers etc, I don't take what the BBC says as fact, just like I don't take the Chicago Tribune as fact. I look at everything and try to make sense of it all.

Example:

If a US paper says, for the sake of an arguement, that the sky is green and the grass is blue, the BBC says the exact same thing, and so does the south china morning post- that could be factual. But when I look outside and see the fact that the grass is green and the sky is blue, i know its not fact. I try reading between the lines and looking at who is behind the papers. The Chicago Trib is owned by Time Warner, along with AOL, Time, WB, DC Comics and god knows what else- and the Trib is a conservitive paper as oppose to the Chicago Sun Times.

hope that helps clarifying.

Tessana aka MG

Jamie
08-10-2006, 09:39 PM
okay I said, i was going watch porn...but...how can you sit there and say that OUR media is biased, but then read another counrty's media and take it for fact. I am aghast that you have the nerve to call me a sheep and yet you just said that.
wished I had watched porn. just got world class ass volume 2 on dvd (not the right thread)

Murdock's Girl
08-10-2006, 09:40 PM
no still love you like brothers. we don't protest we drink tea and eat scones.
Since you bought up scones, which are yummy and this is completly off subject but can you explain to me what the hell a crumpet is?

hehehe
Tessana aka MG

Ryan Elliott
08-10-2006, 09:42 PM
WHOA WAIT A SECOND.. I Didn't say that... please, it is coming across as you are putting words in my mouth..

I know somewhere in this mess I said that I read at least 5 papers a day (its a hold over from when I was competiting in forensics). These are both US and non US papers etc, I don't take what the BBC says as fact, just like I don't take the Chicago Tribune as fact. I look at everything and try to make sense of it all.

Example:

If a US paper says, for the sake of an arguement, that the sky is green and the grass is blue, the BBC says the exact same thing, and so does the south china morning post- that could be factual. But when I look outside and see the fact that the grass is green and the sky is blue, i know its not fact. I try reading between the lines and looking at who is behind the papers. The Chicago Trib is owned by Time Warner, along with AOL, Time, WB, DC Comics and god knows what else- and the Trib is a conservitive paper as oppose to the Chicago Sun Times.

hope that helps clarifying.

Tessana aka MG


Yeah, but there's nothing to read between the lines. They're saying it's fact, but it's TOTALLY obvious that they're lying.


Sounds like a bad example.

saymama
08-10-2006, 09:45 PM
"WHOA WAIT A SECOND.. I Didn't say that... please, it is coming across as you are putting words in my mouth..

Man people go off about my Bush comments but nothing about the fact that we are being sheep hearded off a cliff like lemmings?
Hmmm..."


honey you just called us all sheep! you should keep better track of your thoughts.

and about that bill thingy....
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xXSHMSDrShE&mode=related&search=

watch and learn!

saymama
08-10-2006, 09:46 PM
wished I had watched porn. just got world class ass volume 2 on dvd (not the right thread)
it's always the right thread when i'm there!

Jamie
08-10-2006, 09:48 PM
Since you bought up scones, which are yummy and this is completly off subject but can you explain to me what the hell a crumpet is?

hehehe
Tessana aka MG
I have not been very constructive to this thread. crumpet is a round fluffy bread that you toast and put butter on. also its slang for an attractive women

Zeppe
08-10-2006, 09:58 PM
I just love how some people say, "If you're not with the President, you're against America! So get out!"

Sorry mama, but instead of just sitting back enjoying that I have the right to express my opinion even if it's not with the President I'll actually exercise it!

saymama
08-10-2006, 10:02 PM
I just love how some people say, "If you're not with the President, you're against America! So get out!"

Sorry mama, but instead of just sitting back enjoying that I have the right to express my opinion even if it's not with the President I'll actually exercise it!

no, it's fine, if you actually exercise and be constructive, but don't just sit back and bitch. I have no problem if you want to fix something...

I stated before that I don't agree with everything, i did give the man my vote (which really means nothing because the electoral votes actually count) so i will support my stand until it is time to change things. and again, no matter who is in office, NO ONE will agree with EVERYTHING that goes on.

natalie
08-11-2006, 07:34 AM
Yeah, I am in my own way by throwing these thoughts out here... running for office? I just choked on my coffee laughing. Right now we are stuck being run by two parties that are the same sides of the coin. A third party doesn't work here (unfortantly) AND on top of that...a women running for any kind of office..esp in Chicago ....i would have an easier time finding bin laden.

Tessana aka MG

Ever hear of Jane Byrne? She was the mayor of Chicago from 1979 to 1983, and yes, she is a woman. You can find this type of information if you know how to dig it up.

Ever hear of Dorothy Tillman, Madeline Haithcock, Leslie Hairston, Toni Preckwinkle, Freddrenna Lyle, Shirley Coleman, Latasha Thomas, Virginia Rugai, Arenda Troutman, Ariel Reboyras, Carrie Austin, Emma Mitts, Margaret Laurino, Vi Daley, Helen Shiller or Mary Ann Smith? These women hold the position of alderman for 16 of the 50 wards in Chicago.

Jef UK
08-11-2006, 07:52 AM
Had we not voted him in the first place go back and realize just how many things you wouldn't have that you have right now.


Like what?



And yes, i agree with the other person that said love it or leave it. You don't like it, hop your happy ass on a plane and go someplace else. I'd love to the Bush haters not live in the land of the free!

Are you fucking kidding me?



[...] and do my best to not spew ignorance without substantial and legitimate facts behind opinions.

So what do you call this post?


My children have chances in the country that other special needs children will never have because their country does not have a govt in place that can offer them serivces to better their lives.

Sure, but Bush doesn't have anything to do with that (and America isn't the only country that provides such care and education):

http://usliberals.about.com/od/education/a/EdBudget07.htm
http://usliberals.about.com/od/healthcare/a/HHSDCuts.htm

natalie
08-11-2006, 08:00 AM
Hmm. My idea of hollywood and the bush admin in bed together---you think that is a conspiracy theory?

I am a film and sociology student. I just finished writing a huge paper about this for my social problems class. The proof is in the media in numerous of articles (if you know how to dig them up) from the NY Times, The chicago trib, the dallas morning star, even... yes--- the south china morning post (ive been using that paper as a citation for about 5 years now). THAT---and the fact of look at the box office numbers. why didn't the comic industry work with films in the early 90's? look at the batman films that came out in the late 80's early 90s. All very spooky (or 90 mintue long gay jokes) but the burton films (who is known for underlying meaning in his films), were a great representation of the climate of the society's feelings on the government (can't trust clinton...he lied to us about monica!). Then all of sudden, 2001 on we get a HUGE influx of Harry potter, LOTR, Spidey etc etc. Time did a wonderful article on that late 2001.

I think you believe that this sounds like a conspiracy because its hard to believe- I can see where that could be troubling for someone- but start reading between the lines. Look outside of our media, and you will see what I see.

No one is watching the watchmen. :)

Tessana aka MG

Harry Potter was released on Nov 16, 2001. Do you think they were able to film the entire movie between 9-11-2001 and 11-16-2001?

The first Spiderman movie was scheduled to start filming in the fall of 2000.

The sequels have nothing to do with the Bush admin but everything to do with Hollywood and successful movies.

JoeE addressed the flaws in your Batman/Clinton statement.

Yes, your post is troubling for me because you believe what you posted to be factual.

Murdock's Girl
08-11-2006, 11:55 AM
I just love how some people say, "If you're not with the President, you're against America! So get out!"

Sorry mama, but instead of just sitting back enjoying that I have the right to express my opinion even if it's not with the President I'll actually exercise it!

Thank you Zeppe, that is what I was trying to say last night in a coffee induced high.

I don't agree with 90% of the things that Bush has done, but as an American, I have the right to disagree and state that publicly.

However, I shouldn't have that right taken away from me, directly or indirectly by my government.

The media thing though- to clarify. I can't take for granted what one paper says as fact, or one particular program on tv. HOWEVER, if I take as much info as I can get my hands on, wether it is biased or not, AND if i take into account of the biased reporting, then I think I can make an educated guess as to what the facts really are.

Actually, I hate to use a comic book as a reference, but Jenkins nailed it on the head in Frontline (either 1 or 2) in where Ulrich is venting to Robbie about how JJ wants to have all articles align with the Iron Man side of the debate. Robbie pretty much tells him to put his own feelings aside and do as he is told. JJ is biased... he always has been (hello, look at him and spidey).

I think that is a better explanation than what I gave earlier.

Tessana aka MG

Murdock's Girl
08-11-2006, 12:02 PM
Harry Potter was released on Nov 16, 2001. Do you think they were able to film the entire movie between 9-11-2001 and 11-16-2001?

The first Spiderman movie was scheduled to start filming in the fall of 2000.

The sequels have nothing to do with the Bush admin but everything to do with Hollywood and successful movies.

JoeE addressed the flaws in your Batman/Clinton statement.

Yes, your post is troubling for me because you believe what you posted to be factual.


Yes, a few of those franchises were already in the works or already out pre-911. One could say, well hollywood just wants the dough and is producing more and more of these movies.

Or one could argue that Hollywood is making these movies because the people demand it.

(well haven't comic book fans been demanding these movies long before 9/11? why were we not listened to until now?)

But look also how many films were thrown out in the fantasy genre (besides Spidey and Harry, and Xmen -even though X2 did have a great underlying tone to it.and I'll even ignore LOTR for a mintue).

Batman
Superman
Catwomen
Elektra
Daredevil
Hulk
Pirates (yes, Pirates is still considered a fantasy film)

Upcoming:
TMNT being resurrected
Iron Man
Wolverine
Magento
Captain America
Ant Man
Thor
Nick Fury
Iron Man

Stuff still down a ways:
Avengers (live action)
Cloak and Dagger
Another Batman
More Supes
Pirates 3
Harry 5,6,7
Iron Fist

and god knows what else.

I think I got this idea stuck in my head from a documentary I watched in which they compared the fantasy genre in films to a lot of the war video games that have been coming out. I'll get the name of the doc. from my sociology problems prof. asap.

Tessana aka MG

Ryan Elliott
08-11-2006, 12:08 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Hellboy072/200px-Questionfull.jpg

KingMob
08-11-2006, 12:08 PM
You know, there was a lot of weird shit coming out in the 80s, what would you attribute that to? :lol:

natalie
08-11-2006, 12:15 PM
Yes, a few of those franchises were already in the works or already out pre-911. One could say, well hollywood just wants the dough and is producing more and more of these movies.

Or one could argue that Hollywood is making these movies because the people demand it.

(well haven't comic book fans been demanding these movies long before 9/11? why were we not listened to until now?)

But look also how many films were thrown out in the fantasy genre (besides Spidey and Harry, and Xmen -even though X2 did have a great underlying tone to it.and I'll even ignore LOTR for a mintue).

Batman
Superman
Catwomen
Elektra
Daredevil
Hulk
Pirates (yes, Pirates is still considered a fantasy film)

Upcoming:
TMNT being resurrected
Iron Man
Wolverine
Magento
Captain America
Ant Man
Thor
Nick Fury
Iron Man

Stuff still down a ways:
Avengers (live action)
Cloak and Dagger
Another Batman
More Supes
Pirates 3
Harry 5,6,7
Iron Fist

and god knows what else.

I think I got this idea stuck in my head from a documentary I watched in which they compared the fantasy genre in films to a lot of the war video games that have been coming out. I'll get the name of the doc. from my sociology problems prof. asap.

Tessana aka MG


The superhero movies released before 9-11 were successful. What does Hollywood do when a genre is successful? Yes, that's right, they make more movies like that.

It's possible that 9-11 made some people want to see movies with a clear good guy/bad guy element. But don't fool yourself into believing that Bush is in bed with Hollywood to make the movies so we feel better about ourselves.

natalie
08-11-2006, 12:16 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Hellboy072/200px-Questionfull.jpg


:)

Ryan Elliott
08-11-2006, 12:19 PM
:)



That is exactly what it sounds like. I keep hearing that voice when I read her messages.






I wonder if she has a cork board with all that string and those tacks connecting pictures.

MIKE D
08-11-2006, 12:46 PM
This is the best thread ever. Kudos to everyone involved.

Kensington
08-11-2006, 12:48 PM
This is the best thread ever. Kudos to everyone involved.It really has been extraordinary, hasn't it?:lol:

Hawkdevil
08-11-2006, 03:29 PM
This thread was over when someone condoned the "America Love it or Leave it. If you're not with Bush, get out." comment.

Brad N.
08-11-2006, 03:38 PM
This thread was over when someone condoned the "America Love it or Leave it. If you're not with Bush, get out." comment.

Especially considering the fact that if that were the case then more than 60% of the country would have to leave.

Hawkdevil
08-11-2006, 03:42 PM
Especially considering the fact that if that were the case then more than 60% of the country would have to leave.

I love the brand of thinking in which people discount the fact that there is a NEW president every 4-8 years, and that if no one ever disliked a president, we'd opt for a Dictatorship. It's like saying that to not re-elect every president we ever have is being unpatriotic.

DrMachine
08-11-2006, 03:50 PM
Does this country seem like its going to impode on itself like the Roman Empire?

That we are currently reliving (in some cases of people) the mccarthy era except now that there is no one person to call and blame like Sen. McCarthy?

That the people of this country are being sheep hearding like no tomorrow?

When did celebrities lives rank more important in headline news then the "war on terror"?

Is the "war on terror" to vague a term?

We are closing on the 5th anniversary of 9/11 and we still don't have Bin Laden's head on a platter?

That Bush is the worst president in the history of this country? (And someone please dear god fire his speech writer and put our 'elected' leader through a basic speech course).

Sorry for sounding so doomsday-e. I am going through some old sociology papers and I am just seeing so many problems that no one is addressing. IT MAKES ME SICK.

Tessana aka MG

there is a group that we can blame though

mike black
08-11-2006, 04:03 PM
Please explain before I rant for no reason. I am so sick of people in my generation blindly following one media outlet (i.e. they only watch CNN if that). EVERY MEDIA OUTLET is biased in one way or the other.

I look at everything, and then look outside the box (this country) and piece things together myself. I read at least 5 newspapers a day (3 US 2 non us-- at least) and i am starting to live by the BBC.

I think, dear friend, you are uninformed.

Tessana aka MG

I comment on your opinions to state you are uninformed. You comment on my comment with no prior knowledge of what I do to get my information. Did anyone else hear "I know you are, but what am I?"

And, I would like to point out that you are in fact "living" by one of the most liberal media outlets in the world. I hope your balencing out that time with a healthy dose of Sky News every day. But of course, that could become tiring with reading those five different news papers (two of which come from outside the U.S.) and writing all those papers for that degree in Film.

mike black
08-11-2006, 04:08 PM
If this passes, we are now offically Hitler Germany. Or did everyone forget that is how Hitler gain power? took the guns the started killing the disabled, then the homosexuals and gypsies...the the jews and everyone else. I am NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT comparing Bush to Hitler, but he is coming damn to close.

Tessana aka MG

This thread - as of page five - has officially ended. MGhas officially forfeited any rights to comment further.

Smokinblues
08-11-2006, 04:37 PM
Harry Potter was released on Nov 16, 2001. Do you think they were able to film the entire movie between 9-11-2001 and 11-16-2001?

The first Spiderman movie was scheduled to start filming in the fall of 2000.

The sequels have nothing to do with the Bush admin but everything to do with Hollywood and successful movies.

JoeE addressed the flaws in your Batman/Clinton statement.

Yes, your post is troubling for me because you believe what you posted to be factual.

They had been trying to make Spider-Man for 20 years. The special effects were never up to the task, and just when they were getting there legal troubles set in.

In fact the biggest reason for the explosion in fantasy and superhero stories has a lot more to due with the exponential technological advances in the last 15 to 20 years. After Jurassic Park showed everybody what could be done, it just grew nad grew from there.

Hollywood makes movies for one reason. To make money. If Fantasy/Superhero movies didn't make money they'd stop making them. Simple as that. When Blade and the first XMen movie were financial successes, and then when Spider-Man was one of the most successful movies of all time, that guaranteed the onset of tons of similar movies.

And again, the meeting with the writers and the administration were very well publicized. They were looking for the creative type to come up with potential scenarios the government may not have thought of to protect against. Nothing more, nothing less. And if I remember right it was a pretty short lived deal, but I could be wrong about that part.

Smokinblues
08-11-2006, 04:45 PM
(well haven't comic book fans been demanding these movies long before 9/11? why were we not listened to until now?)



because it's only in the last 10 or 15 years that the technology has existed to really make good superhero movies. They actually tried with the Captain American, Cormon's Fantastic Four. But the there just wasn't a way to pull it off. And hollywood had to be convinced that something besides batman or superman could be successful.

It's not like they haven't made movies with adventurous, heroic overtones. Indiana Jones, etc. Fantasy and adventure have been a part of popular entertainment as long as people have wanted to be entertained.

mike black
08-11-2006, 05:27 PM
because it's only in the last 10 or 15 years that the technology has existed to really make good superhero movies. They actually tried with the Captain American, Cormon's Fantastic Four. But the there just wasn't a way to pull it off. And hollywood had to be convinced that something besides batman or superman could be successful.

It's not like they haven't made movies with adventurous, heroic overtones. Indiana Jones, etc. Fantasy and adventure have been a part of popular entertainment as long as people have wanted to be entertained.


Movies to have begun pre-production before 9-11-01 are in bold....


0–9

* 300 (set to be released March 16, 2007[1])

A

* Adventures of Captain Marvel (1941, serial)
* Alien vs. Predator (2004, based from previous Alien and Predator films and the Dark Horse comics of the same name)
* American Splendor (2003)
* Archie: To Riverdale and Back Again (1990)

B

* Barb Wire (1996)
* Batman films:
o The Batman (1943, serial)
o Batman and Robin (1949, serial)
o Batman (1966)
o Batman (1989, Legacy)
o Batman Returns (1992, Legacy)
o Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (1993, animated)
o Batman Forever (1995, Legacy)
o Batman & Robin (1997, Legacy)
o Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero (1998, animated)
o Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (2000, animated)
o Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman (2003, animated)
o Batman Begins (2005, Next Gen)
o The Batman vs. Dracula (2005, animated)
o The Dark Knight (Set to be Released 2008, Next Gen)
* Blade (1998)
* Blade II (2002)
* Blade: Trinity (2004)
* Bulletproof Monk (2003)

C

* Captain America films:
o Captain America (1944, serial)
o Captain America (1979, TV movie)
o Captain America II: Death Too Soon (1979, TV movie)
o Captain America (1991)
o Captain America (set to be released July 2009[2])
* Casper (1995)
* Casper: A Spirited Beginning
* Casper Meets Wendy
* Casper's Haunted Christmas*
* Constantine (2005)
* Catwoman (2004)
* The Crow (1994)
* The Crow: City of Angels (1996)
* The Crow: Salvation (2000)
* The Crow: Wicked Prayer (2005)

D

* Daredevil (2003)
* Deathlok (set to be released 2008[3])
* Doc Savage:The Man of Bronze (1975)
* Dr. Strange (1978, TV movie)

E

* Elektra (2005)

F

* Fantastic Four (1994, unreleased)
* Fantastic Four (2005)
* Fantastic Four and The Silver Surfer (set to be released July 4, 2007[4])
* Faust: Love of the Damned (2001)
* From Hell (2001)

G

* Genął (1997, animated)
* Generation X (1996, TV movie)
* Ghost Rider (set to be released February 16, 2007[5])
* Global Frequency (2005, unaired pilot)
* G-Men From Hell (2000)
* Ghost World (2001)

H

* Hellboy (2004)
* Hellboy 2: The Golden Army (set to be released June 2007[6])
* A History of Violence (2005)
* Howard the Duck (1986)

I

* The Incredible Hulk:
o The Incredible Hulk Returns (1988, TV movie series)
o The Trial of the Incredible Hulk (1989, TV movie series)
o The Death of the Incredible Hulk (1990, TV movie series)
o Hulk (2003, Silver Screen Series)
o The Incredible Hulk (set to be released 2008[7]), Silver Screen Series)
* Iron Man (set to be released May 2008[8][9])

J

* Josie and the Pussycats (2001)
* Justice League of America (1997, unreleased TV movie)
* Judge Dredd

K

* Kull the Conqueror (1997)

L

* Lady Death (2004, animated)
* The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (2003)

M

* Man-Thing (2005)
* Magneto (set for 2007[10])
* The Mask (1994)
* Men in Black (1997)
* Men in Black II (2002)
* Monkeybone (2001)
* Mystery Men (1999)

N

* Nick Fury: Agent of Shield (1998, TV movie)

P

* Painkiller Jane (2005, TV movie)
* The Phantom (film) (1996)
* The Phantom (1943 movie serial)
* Power Pack (1991, TV movie)
* The Punisher (1989)
* The Punisher (2004)
* The Punisher 2 (set for 2006[11])

R

* The Return of the Swamp Thing (1989)
* Ri˘hie Ri˘h (1997)
* Road to Perdition (2002)
* The Rocketeer (1991)

S

* The Shadow (1994)
* Shazam! (set to be released 2007[12])
* Sheena (1984)
* Sin City (2005)
* Sin City 2 (set to be released in 2007[13])
* Sin City 3: Hell and Back (set for 2008[14])
* Spawn (1997)
* Spawn 2 (Set to be release in 2007[15]))
* Spider-Man (2002)
* Spider-Man 2 (2004)
* Spider-Man 3 (set to be released May 4, 2007[16])
* Spy Smasher (1942, serial)
* Steel (1997)
* Supergirl (1984)
* Superman films (chronologically):
o Superman (1948, serial)
o Atom Man Vs. Superman (1950, serial)
o Superman and the Mole Men (1951)
o Superman (1978)
o Superman II (1981)
o Superman III (1983)
o Superman IV: The Quest for Peace (1987)
o Superman: Brainiac Attacks (2006, animated)
o Superman Returns (2006)[17])
* Swamp Thing (1982)

T

* Tales from the Crypt (1972)
* Tank Girl (1995)
* Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990)
* Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze (1991)
* Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III (1993)
* TMNT (working title) (set for March 30, 2007[18])
* Timecop (1994)

U

* Ultimate Avengers (2006, animated)
* Ultimate Avengers 2 (2006, animated)

V

* V for Vendetta (2006)
* Vampirella (1996)
* Virus (1999)

W

* Watchmen (in production)
* Wings of the Crow (2000)
* Witchblade (2000, TV movie)
* Wolverine (set for 2007[19])
* Wonder Woman (set for 2007[20])

X

* X-Men films (chronologically):
o X-Men (2000)
o X2: X-Men United (2003)
o X-Men: The Last Stand (2006)

Z

* Zoom (aka Zoom's Academy; set to be released August 11, 2006[21])

Smokinblues
08-11-2006, 05:29 PM
snip

:no: your facts don't mean as much because you aren't studying 5 film schools a day.

mike black
08-11-2006, 06:35 PM
:no: your facts don't mean as much because you aren't studying 5 film schools a day.

Two not in the continental U.S. (one is Alaskan and one is Hawaiin. That's like another country, right?)

Hawkdevil
08-11-2006, 06:44 PM
The truth is that she had it backwards. The media isnt giving us more superheroes because of some government mandate because they think good VS evil puts the masses on the gov't's side in the war on terror. The truth is that in a wartime situation, the people take to good VS evil all by themselves, and the media makes more because the people keep eating it up. THe media isnt shoving it down our throats, we're begging them for more.

It happens in ANY wartime situation and it always has. The people look to black and white, GOOD VS EVIL escapism and hero/idol worship whenever theres a war on. Whenever there's ANY situation that's stressfull on the masses. It just always happens. Superhero comics rose to the power they had in the 40's because of a war. Pulp novels rose in popularity during a war. Action movies rose to popularity during a war.

It's just a thing that happens. Consult one of MG's 200 pyschology professors or something as to the WHY, but it does happen. The media had been looking for years for a way to make super-heroes work, and they accidentally released a few in a very stressful time in our nations history, and so they took off.

I love a good government conspiracy as much as the next guy, but crackpot theories like that make EVERY declaration of "shadow government" shit sound ridiculous and laughable.

"The Boy Who Cried Conspiracy"...you know...

Jastermereel
08-11-2006, 07:41 PM
The truth is that she had it backwards. The media isnt giving us more superheroes because of some government mandate because they think good VS evil puts the masses on the gov't's side in the war on terror. The truth is that in a wartime situation, the people take to good VS evil all by themselves, and the media makes more because the people keep eating it up. THe media isnt shoving it down our throats, we're begging them for more.
Yes and no. The people are may very well be seeking a simple Manichaean perspective in such movies, but it isn't just something that happens because of the war so much as it is the way a government can convince it's people to go to war. You can't go and bomb the fuck out of a people if you think "'eh, they might be alright". You have to feel that you are right, they are wrong, and that thats all there can be to it. Given that the government conveys this to the people through the media outlets, the media is involved, but in terms of the pure entertainment parts of the media, it would simply be responding to the dualistic inclinations.

So, while I agree that we can't really blame the studios potentially increased superheros for the inclination towards the perspective, to pretend that the people take towards the perspective all on their own is folly and ignores the elephant (twice an elephant in this circumstance) in the room.

Hawkdevil
08-14-2006, 01:26 PM
Yes and no. The people are may very well be seeking a simple Manichaean perspective in such movies, but it isn't just something that happens because of the war so much as it is the way a government can convince it's people to go to war. You can't go and bomb the fuck out of a people if you think "'eh, they might be alright". You have to feel that you are right, they are wrong, and that thats all there can be to it. Given that the government conveys this to the people through the media outlets, the media is involved, but in terms of the pure entertainment parts of the media, it would simply be responding to the dualistic inclinations.

So, while I agree that we can't really blame the studios potentially increased superheros for the inclination towards the perspective, to pretend that the people take towards the perspective all on their own is folly and ignores the elephant (twice an elephant in this circumstance) in the room.

I think you misunderstand me.

I was saying that the people take to it because of seperate reasons than the movies. They take to the movies because of a pervading theme in their own world at the time. The government may take other methods to infuse the populace with "they are wrong, we are right" (such as spinning news stories, limiting coverage,) but what I'm saying is that the government has nothing to do with the increase in superhero movies. The people clamor for good VS evil in times of war. The suggestion to do so was maybe planted in their heads elsewhere, but still, the government doesn't walk into Universal Studio's and say "Make some super hero movies to gear our people up for war." They do it elsewhere and, because they TRY super-hero movies every few years to see if they'll work yet...at that/this time, THAT is why they worked.

Jastermereel
08-14-2006, 05:42 PM
I think you misunderstand me.

I was saying that the people take to it because of seperate reasons than the movies. They take to the movies because of a pervading theme in their own world at the time. The government may take other methods to infuse the populace with "they are wrong, we are right" (such as spinning news stories, limiting coverage,) but what I'm saying is that the government has nothing to do with the increase in superhero movies. The people clamor for good VS evil in times of war. The suggestion to do so was maybe planted in their heads elsewhere, but still, the government doesn't walk into Universal Studio's and say "Make some super hero movies to gear our people up for war." They do it elsewhere and, because they TRY super-hero movies every few years to see if they'll work yet...at that/this time, THAT is why they worked.
Again, I largely agree. You don't have government officials walking into studios saying "make this kind of film" but the memes that they push into society do make people more receptive towards such films and thus make the studios more likely to make them. While it is an indirect connection, it isn't quite right to say that the government has nothing to do with the increase.