Is Civil War: Front Line enhancing your civil war experience?

[ds9]

:d

[Pat Loika]

Yes, it is.

P.

[Ray G.]

Yes. It's a good read, at least when it comes to Embedded and Sleeper Cell.

[Petey Parker]

I've actually been liking it more than the regular Civil War series.

[ClintP]

It is writen by Jenkins, of course it is great! Seriously, I love Speedball now and I am a little worried about him now in the new prsion...

JJJ is harcore too!

[Jim T.]

I've liked it until I get to the sappy features at the end with poetry and intermingled shots from history. Those I find to be too over the top.

[Pat Loika]

I think the more appropriate thread would be: Is a ds9 thread enhancing your bendis board experience?

[Shwicaz]

It sure has.

While Civil War seems to focus on the 'big guns' and how they are reacting to the legislation, CW:F seems to be focusing on the 'non A list' characters, and showing how it affects people who aren't always in the public eye (like typeface)

Also, the follow up on Speedball has been very interesting.

And Sleeper Cell is setting up the whole

inevitable war w/ Atlantis


good seeds for future storylines here.

[ClintP]

It sure has.

While Civil War seems to focus on the 'big guns' and how they are reacting to the legislation, CW:F seems to be focusing on the 'non A list' characters, and showing how it affects people who aren't always in the public eye (like typeface)

Also, the follow up on Speedball has been very interesting.

And Sleeper Cell is setting up the whole

inevitable war w/ Atlantis


good seeds for future storylines here.
Don't get too attached to Typeface. When I talked to Jenkins at WWC he laughed when I produced a Typeface comic from Peter Parker and said, "no wonder you hated me back in the day. This was crap!" He also said that Typeface is going to get gang raped and generally F'ed up!

[dako]

Front Line hasn't done much for me, honestly.

And the adaptation of Goodnight Saigon by Billy Joel :-? made me drop the book.

[YouStayClassy]

After #5, most definitely.

The very last backup story in each issue is still a *tad* silly though.

[ClintP]

Yeah, I am not big on those, but they are not why I get this comic.

[ClintP]

Damn Iron Man, saying GG was still in jail. What is his malfunction???

[Pat Loika]

After #5, most definitely.

The very last backup story in each issue is still a *tad* silly though.

You should hear Jenkins rant about those. He spends hours upon hours of research to put those together. I thought issue 1 and 2 had the best of those.

P.

[BWC Boston]

I've liked it until I get to the sappy features at the end with poetry and intermingled shots from history. Those I find to be too over the top.
Not only over the top, but I find them vaguely offensive and trivializing. Taking the words of a man who was forced to attempt to kill his brother and superimposing them over images of, say, Spider-Man punching some C-lister, undercuts the drama and dignity from both stories. Comparing the Japanese "relocation camps" on US soil with the "Superhero Registration Act" is actually sort of deplorable.

[ds9]

I think the more appropriate thread would be: Is a ds9 thread enhancing your bendis board experience?YUP

[Pat Loika]

YUP

Ha!

[Captain Nate]

No, I think it has been too skewed in the anti-reg direction.

[YouStayClassy]

You should hear Jenkins rant about those. He spends hours upon hours of research to put those together. I thought issue 1 and 2 had the best of those.

P.

One definitely had some nice research behind it.... these are just such a stretch for me to suspend my disbelief to believe superheroes battling each other is as bad as the tragic real world events they're behind compared with.

[JoeE]

I think the more appropriate thread would be: Is a ds9 thread enhancing your bendis board experience?

No. It's gotten to the point where if I see a thread where ds9 has made the last post, I simply won't read it, because I know that absolutely nothing of value has been added.

[ds9]

No. It's gotten to the point where if I see a thread where ds9 has made the last post, I simply won't read it, because I know that absolutely nothing of value has been added.Damn thats nasty.:-x

[Pat Loika]

One definitely had some nice research behind it.... these are just such a stretch for me to suspend my disbelief to believe superheroes battling each other is as bad as the tragic real world events they're behind compared with.

Let's look at the first one.

At it's core, we're looking at a man who has to make a painful decision for the good of his country. It's about making the hard choice for being a patriot. THAT's the point Jenkins is getting at. Remove the outrage around what's being compared and read the thoughts of the people in the story, and you'll see what he's trying to do. It becomes a very powerful force in the story.

P.

[ClintP]

Let's look at the first one.

At it's core, we're looking at a man who has to make a painful decision for the good of his country. It's about making the hard choice for being a patriot. THAT's the point Jenkins is getting at. Remove the outrage around what's being compared and read the thoughts of the people in the story, and you'll see what he's trying to do. It becomes a very powerful force in the story.

P.
You mean we are supposed to read? I like to look at the funny pictures of people in costumes!:twisted:

[ds9]

You mean we are supposed to read? I like to look at the funny pictures of people in costumes!:twisted:Damn that Jenkins guy.:-x

[Lyfeforce]

Front Line hasn't done much for me, honestly.

And the adaptation of Goodnight Saigon by Billy Joel :-? made me drop the book.

I haven't dropped the book, but i certainly understand why one would due to that.

Frontline's an interesting concept, but I'm not sure that it's getting translated well in the comic. I thought it was going to be a analysis of both sides, but it's really anti-reg and another Ben Urich story...
It did give me my first glimpse of a super villain in the whole CW, but all it means is more trouble for Urich right now. No grand scheme just yet, which is dissapointing.
It was a great first few issues and I like how stuff keeps getting worse for speedball in prison, but it's just not hitting all the right notes.

[BWC Boston]

Let's look at the first one.

At it's core, we're looking at a man who has to make a painful decision for the good of his country. It's about making the hard choice for being a patriot. THAT's the point Jenkins is getting at. Remove the outrage around what's being compared and read the thoughts of the people in the story, and you'll see what he's trying to do. It becomes a very powerful force in the story.

P.
Oh, I get that. I just disagree with it, and find it wholly ineffective. To take an actual tragedy, find someone's actual words about their real experience with it, and put it next to the Thing lookin' sad...that doesn't work for me. It just reminds me how silly the story I'm trying to enjoy is.

[Dreg]

The Speedball story's good. The others seem to drag it down.

[Pat Loika]

Oh, I get that. I just disagree with it, and find it wholly ineffective. To take an actual tragedy, find someone's actual words about their real experience with it, and put it next to the Thing lookin' sad...that doesn't work for me. It just reminds me how silly the story I'm trying to enjoy is.

It doesn't work for everyone, nothing ever does. But I think people are unfairly judging the writing because they're too busy being offended by his comparing one tragedy to a fictional situation.

P.

[A.Huerta]

It doesn't work for everyone, nothing ever does. But I think people are unfairly judging the writing because they're too busy being offended by his comparing one tragedy to a fictional situation.

P.

That seems to be the case. I see A LOT of similarities with the real world and Civil War but I'm just enjoyin the read.

[YouStayClassy]

Let's look at the first one.

At it's core, we're looking at a man who has to make a painful decision for the good of his country. It's about making the hard choice for being a patriot. THAT's the point Jenkins is getting at. Remove the outrage around what's being compared and read the thoughts of the people in the story, and you'll see what he's trying to do. It becomes a very powerful force in the story.

P.
That's an interesting approach to the backups..... I'll give them another chance.

[Alan Mac]

I haven't dropped the book, but i certainly understand why one would due to that.

Frontline's an interesting concept, but I'm not sure that it's getting translated well in the comic. I thought it was going to be a analysis of both sides, but it's really anti-reg and another Ben Urich story...

That's been my problem with the whole of Civil War. For an event that's billed as "Who's side are you on?", it's been painfully obvious that

Pro-Reg = Brutal government cronies
and
Anti-Reg = Fearless rebellion against a totalitarian government.

I've yet to find a comic that shows it as anything else. There are some great and interesting debates to be shown on either side but the main series seems to be depicting Mark Millar's ability to write action scenes for movies and Front Line has spent 5 issues pissing about and not actually saying anything.

Paul Jenkins is an excellent writer when he's not being forced into it (see Origin and the Spectacular Dissassembled crossover <edit>for examples of him being forced into it<edit>), but this is hack work.

Issue 4's Sleeper Cell story was devoted to a cop saying wouldn't it be funny if this guy who's gone missing since his shop blew up was some sort of.....Sleeper Agent! Hahahaha! Except he had no reason to suspect this and was just right due to the writer trying to explain the issue by having his character be dead on with no logical explanation.

It's the same problem I had with Iron Man's speech at the end of Illuminati. Writing a character exactly telling you what is going to happen isn't clever. It's lazy.

Then you get to the latest issue of Front Line where Ben Urich tries to get a story published with no evidence. And an editor and reporter are arrested after someone talked to the reporter on the street. The NSA/SHIELD guy has either no idea how law actually works or both get released immediately in a press s#!tstorm.

Civil War so far has been a trememndous waste of a good idea. Much like many of Marvel's crossovers of recent years. I honestly want to be on the pro-reg side, as I think it's the most sensible, but there's nothing I've seen in any of the crossovers that leads me to see that as a tenable position.

Alan Mac

Edited for clarity of statement.

[WinterRose]

I'm just enjoying the hell out of seeing Floyd again. I don't think I got enough of her in Gen-M.

[Blane]

I buy it for the Speedball story. The sleeper story will probably be interesting, but for the most part the only story that I really enjoy is the Speedball one.

The first story with Ulrich just seems like some talking heads and clearly slanted toward anti-registration.

I just hope Speedball doesn't break.. Or, you know... die.

[Jef UK]

Oh, I get that. I just disagree with it, and find it wholly ineffective. To take an actual tragedy, find someone's actual words about their real experience with it, and put it next to the Thing lookin' sad...that doesn't work for me. It just reminds me how silly the story I'm trying to enjoy is.

Me too. Those last 4 pages or whatever make me whince as I read them.

[Mo_Soar]

Let's look at the first one.

At it's core, we're looking at a man who has to make a painful decision for the good of his country. It's about making the hard choice for being a patriot. THAT's the point Jenkins is getting at. Remove the outrage around what's being compared and read the thoughts of the people in the story, and you'll see what he's trying to do. It becomes a very powerful force in the story.

P.

I completely understand the premise of what the stories have been going for, but I think they've been very heavy-handed and help point up the idea that this is just a big fictional comic book event. It's not possible to disassociate the real-world event from what it's being compared to, because the point of comparing them is the parallel in thought and action.

It was an interesting idea, and as a history buff I like the idea of looking at the past for a way to handle the present, but this is really not working for me.

[MrClown]

I stopped reading the last backup about half-way through the first installment. Just don't like it, but I do like the rest.

[Lord Jermaine Retail]

:d
I love Frontline. I think Jenkins is knocking it out of the park. There is new material in that series that compliments and augments the main series without being repetative. I like the format as well. Floyd/ Urich, Speedball (what happens to powers who don't cooperate)/ sleeper cell (what happens to heroes who do comply but failed to understand what would be required of them)/ current storylines juxtaposed against real war scenarios and fallout. I've been pushing Frontline hard because a some people think that its not about anything, but I feel that its part of the story. Not even a supplemental, but a real part of the story.

[Len Snark]

Proof of a Great Writer: author of a book that makes Speedball out to be a believable, fan-favorite, badass.

[Flonk]

I love the main story
I love the Speedball story
I like the Sleeper Cell story
The Real Life war stories are a waste of paper.

[Flonk]

Paul Jenkins is an excellent writer when he's not being forced into it (see Origin and the Spectacular Dissassembled crossover), but this is hack work.
Aaaaaand the rest of your post is meaningless.

[sonnylarue]

i told jenkins and jim mccann that it's fufilling the promise of the decimation book in the post house of m minis, in a much better way.

[Marcdachamp]

That's been my problem with the whole of Civil War. For an event that's billed as "Who's side are you on?", it's been painfully obvious that

Pro-Reg = Brutal government cronies
and
Anti-Reg = Fearless rebellion against a totalitarian government.

I've yet to find a comic that shows it as anything else. There are some great and interesting debates to be shown on either side but the main series seems to be depicting Mark Millar's ability to write action scenes for movies and Front Line has spent 5 issues pissing about and not actually saying anything.

Paul Jenkins is an excellent writer when he's not being forced into it (see Origin and the Spectacular Dissassembled crossover), but this is hack work.

Issue 4's Sleeper Cell story was devoted to a cop saying wouldn't it be funny if this guy who's gone missing since his shop blew up was some sort of.....Sleeper Agent! Hahahaha! Except he had no reason to suspect this and was just right due to the writer trying to explain the issue by having his character be dead on with no logical explanation.

It's the same problem I had with Iron Man's speech at the end of Illuminati. Writing a character exactly telling you what is going to happen isn't clever. It's lazy.

Then you get to the latest issue of Front Line where Ben Urich tries to get a story published with no evidence. And an editor and reporter are arrested after someone talked to the reporter on the street. The NSA/SHIELD guy has either no idea how law actually works or both get released immediately in a press s#!tstorm.

Civil War so far has been a trememndous waste of a good idea. Much like many of Marvel's crossovers of recent years. I honestly want to be on the pro-reg side, as I think it's the most sensible, but there's nothing I've seen in any of the crossovers that leads me to see that as a tenable position.

Alan Mac
It depends on the book. Frontline has been mainly Anti-Registration, but Amazing Spider-Man and Ms. Marvel have done a great job of showing the other side. I enjoy Front Line.

As for Iron Man in Illuminati, I think he may have known some things in advance. It seems that Zemo sure did...

[Alan Mac]

Aaaaaand the rest of your post is meaningless.

Well, I certainly overstated it. I was in rant mode. What I meant was that he was a great writer when editorial wasn't hovering over his shoulder.

I stand by my opinion that the Spectacular cross was a mess. Mind you, a lot of the Disassembled crosses were. And I actually liked the main story.

Of course, very soon after they did the same story again as The Other even though they hadn't even dealt with the new powers he'd just gotten then.

Alan Mac

[Alan Mac]

It depends on the book. Frontline has been mainly Anti-Registration, but Amazing Spider-Man and Ms. Marvel have done a great job of showing the other side. I enjoy Front Line.

I haven't read Ms Marvel, but have been reading Amazing. And I agree that It did a great job of showing the pro-reg side in the issues preceding the Civil War tie-ins. I liked the debate in front of Congress (or Senate, your American systems confuse me sometimes). However it seemed that once the crossover kicked in it was all about what a terrible idea it was and how Tony's been screwing Peter over since day one.


As for Iron Man in Illuminati, I think he may have known some things in advance. It seems that Zemo sure did...

I've heard some rumours about that and while I think that would be a great twist, it still seemed too on the nose in the issue. Especially with the preview immediately after it depicting the entirety of what Tony predicted. Just seemed off to me.

Alan Mac

[Flonk]

Well, I certainly overstated it. I was in rant mode. What I meant was that he was a great writer when editorial wasn't hovering over his shoulder.

I stand by my opinion that the Spectacular cross was a mess. Mind you, a lot of the Disassembled crosses were. And I actually liked the main story.

Of course, very soon after they did the same story again as The Other even though they hadn't even dealt with the new powers he'd just gotten then.

Alan Mac


Oh, I misunderstood you. The way you worded it, I thought you liked The Disassembled story. I was even going to use The Other as proof it was an editorial mandated story. :lol:


For good, nay GREAT Spidey by Jenkins, read Peter Parker: Spider-Man

[Alan Mac]

Oh, I misunderstood you. The way you worded it, I thought you liked The Disassembled story. I was even going to use The Other as proof it was an editorial mandated story. :lol:


For good, nay GREAT Spidey by Jenkins, read Peter Parker: Spider-Man

Definitely. The baseball issue makes me tear up (in a manly way, of course) and I don't even know anything about the game.

I can see why you'd misread my big post. I went back and edited in a claritive statement. Thank goodness for that. I thought someone was defending that story.

Alan Mac

[Steve_McMahon]

Too many ideas in too little space, even for a bi-monthly book. They're cramming what - 3 stories into every issue, and that well-meant but cringeworthy poetry corner thing?

Perhaps it would be more productive to imagine better ways this could have been published; the recently cancelled x-unlimited had a big fat-ass formula that would have been ideal for this kind of thing, although obviously it would need to be created more often than it's original.

Even if they had stuck to one central story each issue it would be better - right now it's too many stories with too little content, in my opinion.

[SteveZegers]

It really just makes me wish the actual issues were coming out.

[The Roman Candle]

I've liked it until I get to the sappy features at the end with poetry and intermingled shots from history. Those I find to be too over the top.

Yeah, I hate those quite a bit. The rest of the book is pretty good, though.

[Bearpod91]

This book has to be the best tie-in book for CW. And #5 finally showed us what 42 really is which is cool.

[PeteL]

I like it.

[Captain Nate]

Proof of a Great Writer: author of a book that makes Speedball out to be a believable, fan-favorite, badass.

I think Jenkin's speedball is an arrogant, whiny stubborn jerk.

[RickLM]

I agree with the others that its a good book despite the bad poetry.

[Captain Nate]

I haven't read Ms Marvel, but have been reading Amazing. And I agree that It did a great job of showing the pro-reg side in the issues preceding the Civil War tie-ins. I liked the debate in front of Congress (or Senate, your American systems confuse me sometimes).

Haha, US Government question, my chance to show off.

The United States Congress is divided into two houses: The House of Representatives (435 members, elected by population of each state) and the Senate (100 members, two per state). So they're both part of Congress.

[The Roman Candle]

Haha, US Government question, my chance to show off.

The United States Congress is divided into two houses: The House of Representatives (435 members, elected by population of each state) and the Senate (100 members, two per state). So they're both part of Congress.

Showin' off them mad fifth grade civics skills. Represent.

[Captain Nate]

Showin' off them mad fifth grade civics skills. Represent.

Don't you know it.

[Akira]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't hate the poetry sections.

[Alan Mac]

Haha, US Government question, my chance to show off.

The United States Congress is divided into two houses: The House of Representatives (435 members, elected by population of each state) and the Senate (100 members, two per state). So they're both part of Congress.

Ah, cheers. I actually thought that "Congress" and "House of Representatives" were interchangable terms and the Senate was a seperate, but linked house. Thanks for the info.

Alan Mac

[The Roman Candle]

Ah, cheers. I actually thought that "Congress" and "House of Representatives" were interchangable terms and the Senate was a seperate, but linked house. Thanks for the info.

Alan Mac

Well, that isn't ENTIRELY wrong. When someone refers to a "congressman," they usually mean a member of the House of Representatives. However, both bodies make up congress.
We're Americans, we don't always have to make sense. That's in the constitution.

[ClintP]

I think Jenkin's speedball is an arrogant, whiny stubborn jerk.
WHO IS HARDCORE! Speedball before Jenkins was who knows, but now he is cool!

[bairdduvessa]

i've been loving the issues, especialy the Speedball segments

[MrClown]

I think the Speedball segments are my favorite. I just wish they were longer.

[Ray G.]

I must be the only person who really dislikes the Speedball segments. They just seem completely over the top, like an attempt to create the perfect martyr to show us how horrible the registration act is.

[ds9]

I must be the only person who really dislikes the Speedball segments. They just seem completely over the top, like an attempt to create the perfect martyr to show us how horrible the registration act is.They are changing the character to make him a new badass for the next New warriors team.

[Ray G.]

They are changing the character to make him a new badass for the next New warriors team.

I'll believe it when I see it. And I hate the idea of grim-and-gritty Speedball.

Right now it's just "Passion of the Spaz".

[Captain Nate]

I must be the only person who really dislikes the Speedball segments. They just seem completely over the top, like an attempt to create the perfect martyr to show us how horrible the registration act is.

I agree. He's got several people who have come to him to help him, the government, She-Hulk, his mother. All of them tell him that he can get out of jail, and repair his reputation by signing the registration act, and rather than agree, or at least respectfully say no, he seems to spit in all their faces. All the while refusing to acknowledge the role he played in the disaster.

Lock him up & throw away the key!

[Ray G.]

I agree. He's got several people who have come to him to help him, the government, She-Hulk, his mother. All of them tell him that he can get out of jail, and repair his reputation by signing the registration act, and rather than agree, or at least respectfully say no, he seems to spit in all their faces. All the while refusing to acknowledge the role he played in the disaster.

Lock him up & throw away the key!

See, I actually happen to side with Speedball. He didn't do jack. Nitro killed everyone there while fighting Namorita. It wasn't an accident, it was cold-blooded murder. Where the story loses me is how they're desperately trying to evoke 9/11 and Guantanamo in this story. Keep your lefty politics out of my comics! :mad:

[Captain Nate]

See, I actually happen to side with Speedball. He didn't do jack.

There are serious ethical quandaries with fighting supervillains for ratings, let alone screwing up so badly as to be discovered and allow such mass destruction to occur on their watch. The New Warriors aren't so innocent.

[Lord Jermaine Retail]

They are changing the character to make him a new badass for the next New warriors team.
Are we sure he's not the Masked Marvel? I'm not 100% convinced he's not. New face, new name, altered powers, still out there trying to help people.

[Lord Jermaine Retail]

I agree. He's got several people who have come to him to help him, the government, She-Hulk, his mother. All of them tell him that he can get out of jail, and repair his reputation by signing the registration act, and rather than agree, or at least respectfully say no, he seems to spit in all their faces. All the while refusing to acknowledge the role he played in the disaster.

Lock him up & throw away the key!
Its called youthful indignation.

[ds9]

Are we sure he's not the Masked Marvel? I'm not 100% convinced he's not. New face, new name, altered powers, still out there trying to help people.It seemed like someone new in that little back story.

[Lord Jermaine Retail]

There are serious ethical quandaries with fighting supervillains for ratings, let alone screwing up so badly as to be discovered and allow such mass destruction to occur on their watch. The New Warriors aren't so innocent.
They fact that the did they did leave them completely open to exploitation, yes.

[Lord Jermaine Retail]

It seemed like someone new in that little back story.
That could be the intent. If Speedball where to move to a new town with a new face and identity of course he'd seem new to the characters in the book. See where I'm going with this? The name is too much of a coincidence.

[Blane]

I'll believe it when I see it. And I hate the idea of grim-and-gritty Speedball.

Right now it's just "Passion of the Spaz".

I hope that Speedball remains light hearted as well. There are too many grim-and-gritty characters, but he has to react to what is happening to him. Frankly, I'm shocked that he hasn't folded yet. And glad.

Frankly, I think that this and the Wolverine tie-in are better stories than the actual Civil War book. So far, it just seems like they're doing big things to shock the crap out of readers. No real reason (in my mind) that Spidey NEEDED to unmask. And why is Thor back again?

Not saying I don't like it, but I think these other stories are much more cogent.

[ds9]

That could be the intent. If Speedball where to move to a new town with a new face and identity of course he'd seem new to the characters in the book. See where I'm going with this? The name is too much of a coincidence.What I mean is that he seemed new to having super powers.

[Mo_Soar]

A lot of the point of Speedball's current characterization is because he's serving the story, rather than the other way around (which is not a criticism as much as an observation.) The story needs a semi-sympathetic POV character, shown to be a "victim of the system" that the reader can watch move from a bad thing (SHIELD prison) to a really bad thing (this prison). Speedball won't back down because the character CAN'T - if he signed the registration papers, the story wouldn't have the POV character it needs.

Plus, I chose to see the character as desperate and confused. His friends are dead, he's being called a mass murderer, and he did what he did with the best intentions, and it wasn't anything he hadn't done before with a good outcome. So I view him as shell-shocked, pretty much, and holding on to that ONE belief "I didn't do anything wrong." It's not the smart thing to do, as Jen Walters has repeatedly pointed out.

[Errk!]

I've actually been liking it more than the regular Civil War series.

Agreed.

[dougmac]

Oh, I get that. I just disagree with it, and find it wholly ineffective. To take an actual tragedy, find someone's actual words about their real experience with it, and put it next to the Thing lookin' sad...that doesn't work for me. It just reminds me how silly the story I'm trying to enjoy is.
totally agree

[Kefky]

Issue 5 was the first civil war tie-in that I felt made the pro-reg look silly and evil, so I flat-out hated it, specially considering ms. marvel just did a great job of making them look symphathetic. I still have some faith in the crossover, but like I said before, the moment this story turns into "good guy vs. bad guy", it goes to the crapper.

[Blane]

I half expected Speedball's story to be about the government "reforming" him. I really hope he doesn't end up caving by the end. Or dying.

I sort of thought it would be his struggle with his friends, his trial and other stuff. But I didn't expect him to just be assumed guilty and be date raped in jail. Regardless, I like the story, though it's impossible not to do it grim, because the subject matter is just that.

[chess]

Civil War question:

Concerning the negative zone, Reed Richards, and the size of the prison.... That prison is huge. Someone had to be building it for years and years to get a building that size. Could this mean that Iron Man, Shield, and Reed Richards planned this move a long time ago? Could the conspiracy be deeper that this current series?

[The Roman Candle]

Civil War question:

Concerning the negative zone, Reed Richards, and the size of the prison.... That prison is huge. Someone had to be building it for years and years to get a building that size. Could this mean that Iron Man, Shield, and Reed Richards planned this move a long time ago? Could the conspiracy be deeper that this current series?

Doubtful. Reed is constantly building things at ridiculous speeds.

[BWC Boston]

Civil War question:

Concerning the negative zone, Reed Richards, and the size of the prison.... That prison is huge. Someone had to be building it for years and years to get a building that size. Could this mean that Iron Man, Shield, and Reed Richards planned this move a long time ago? Could the conspiracy be deeper that this current series?
I was wondering if it was meant to be the same Negative Zone prison from Kirkman's FF: FOES series.

[Ray G.]

Issue 5 was the first civil war tie-in that I felt made the pro-reg look silly and evil, so I flat-out hated it, specially considering ms. marvel just did a great job of making them look symphathetic. I still have some faith in the crossover, but like I said before, the moment this story turns into "good guy vs. bad guy", it goes to the crapper.

The way I see it, not all pro-regs are being portrayed as evil. But more and more, that's because they're being shown the negatives and evils of the law they support.

[ds9]

I just read the latest issue and all it has done so far is give more reasons to take Cap's side. Now we know that when you register that part of the registration is that you can be forced to go on missions for Shield whether you use you powers to fight or not. The historical parts at the end are just part of the book that you can ignore.

[NickT]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't hate the poetry sections.
The poetry sections gave us a guy whos costume includes a giant phone, so I'm not complaining :D

[methos1978]

I must be the only person who really dislikes the Speedball segments. They just seem completely over the top, like an attempt to create the perfect martyr to show us how horrible the registration act is.

No I agree. I think that frontline has gone out of its way to be anti-registration, as has most of the other titles out there. I am beginning to think that the authors don't know how to make a compelling pro-registation agruement.

[The Roman Candle]

No I agree. I think that frontline has gone out of its way to be anti-registration, as has most of the other titles out there. I am beginning to think that the authors don't know how to make a compelling pro-registation agruement.

I think it's hard to do without going against the natures of a lot of the characters. But for books where the lead is pro-reg, I agree they could be doing a better job of making the cause sympathetic.

[methos1978]

There are serious ethical quandaries with fighting supervillains for ratings, let alone screwing up so badly as to be discovered and allow such mass destruction to occur on their watch. The New Warriors aren't so innocent.

I competely agree with you, if they weren't going for ratings (and if they have done this more than once, ei they are in season two, then they risked a disastor like this happening everytime they went out) there wouldn't have been this disastor. The new warriors were wrong from the outset to do what they did. Police have to get a warrent (or show probable cause) to do something like this. If people are going to act like police in their actions against criminals, then they need to be held to the same standards.

[methos1978]

Its called youthful indignation.

Maybe, but I think it is more of making excuses and not taking responsiblity for his actions caused. If I go after a murderer (not in a self defence mannor, but tracking the guy down to take him out) and in the process he goes on a rampage killing others because I am chasing him, I stand a good chance of either going to jail, or being sued in civil court. I am not the police, I do not have the legal authority to do such, nor am I trained to do so. In real life speed ball would be in jail, and that is where I think he should be.

[twigglet]

I like it, but the last Sleeper Cell part was terrible.

Where the cop completly told us what had happened.

Ugh

[Angel of Distraction]

It's getting in the way of books on the shelf I give a shit about. So it's detracting from my overall comic reading experience.*

*Since some people cannot take crap as well as give it, I wish to note something I have publicly noted before, that being that I intend to read CW trades, and am simply biting back at all the friends who inform me I am wrong for not buying it, to which I say, send me the money and I will. That is all.

[Pat Loika]

It's getting in the way of books on the shelf I give a shit about. So it's detracting from my overall comic reading experience.

You're detracting from my board reading experience.

You've joined the list.

P.

[Angel of Distraction]

You're detracting from my board reading experience.

You've joined the list.

P.

Geez, overreact much? My friends give me crap about not reading it all the time. I get to give some back.:roll:

[Angel of Distraction]

While I am here giving the crap back, I have a major question, since I have had this so thoroughly described that I may as well have read it.

I have heard complaints about what seems to be making Iron Man a villain.

But was there any way they could have made the pro-registration people seem halfway decent?

It seems to me a conflict where one certain side being good just won't work. I mean, it's Captain America. You cannot really make Captain America a bad guy.

It seems to me that there are other conflicts, that get into other aspects of superhero-ing, that may have made for a story with two sides. Then Iron Man wouldn't have to be evil, etc.

[Ray G.]

You're detracting from my board reading experience.

You've joined the list.

P.

I'm not on it, am I? :(

[YouStayClassy]

While I am here giving the crap back, I have a major question, since I have had this so thoroughly described that I may as well have read it.

I have heard complaints about what seems to be making Iron Man a villain.

But was there any way they could have made the pro-registration people seem halfway decent?

It seems to me a conflict where one certain side being good just won't work. I mean, it's Captain America. You cannot really make Captain America a bad guy.

It seems to me that there are other conflicts, that get into other aspects of superhero-ing, that may have made for a story with two sides. Then Iron Man wouldn't have to be evil, etc.

Honestly, I think Ms. Marvel should have been the leader of the pro-regs. As a person who's actually spent a good part of her career with the government, she should have been the natural selection.

[ds9]

Honestly, I think Ms. Marvel should have been the leader of the pro-regs. As a person who's actually spent a good part of her career with the government, she should have been the natural selection.I think she would have been against it but marvel made the writer make her pro reg.

[YouStayClassy]

I think she would have been against it but marvel made the writer make her pro reg.

Why do you think that? I mean, about her being anti-reg?

[Pat Loika]

I'm not on it, am I? :(

You're okay.

P.

[InBendiswetrust]

It's ruining my experience because so much happening in it, but I don't have the money to buy it. I need a job. The core title isn't enough. :frustrat:

[ds9]

Why do you think that? I mean, about her being anti-reg?She is so indepedent and I cant see her supporting a law that would force people who have powers but dont want to use them to be an agent for shield.

[ds9]

You're okay.

P.me 2

[Pat Loika]

Why do you think that? I mean, about her being anti-reg?

If anyone's been reading Marvel books over the past few years they'd remember also that Carol worked for the Department of Homeland Security (See the early issues of the current Thunderbolts book, and Geoff Johns' Avengers run). She's DEFINITELY pro-reg.

P.

[YouStayClassy]

She is so indepedent and I cant see her supporting a law that would force people who have powers but dont want to use them to be an agent for shield.

Well, like Civil War Front Line #5 just pointed out, I don't think a lot of heroes are aware of that little clause yet.

[YouStayClassy]

If anyone's been reading Marvel books over the past few years they'd remember also that Carol worked for the Department of Homeland Security (See the early issues of the current Thunderbolts book, and Geoff Johns' Avengers run). She's DEFINITELY pro-reg.

P.

Completely blanked her on Johns' run. That only makes me wish she was the leader even more now....

[Len Snark]

I figure the reason they didn't make her [Ms. Marvel] the leader of the pro-reg forces is because most of the mainstream audience doesn't know her. Iron Man is highly recognizable to most, especially since Spider-Man is on his side, so he's the de-facto leader. Spidey would be except he's going to flip eventually (next ish? Ish 5?) and that would look bad if the leader of the pro-reg abandoned their cause.

To me, the bigger question is whether or not it is possible in a superhero universe where cosmic threats, magic, and supervillains are all real to believe that established superheroes like Captain America, Luke Cage, etc. become public enemy number one. I mean, the government seems pretty content to put terrorist-hunting on hold so that they can bust in on non-registered superheroes as quickly as possible. Is the public really supporting this? I get the whole Speedball/New Warriors hate, but would the public really go against Captain America and the Avengers after all the times they've saved New York and the planet itself?

I don't know if pro-reg could be written better. I know Millar leans a bit left, as do many in the creative field. On paper, the pro-registration side seems perfectly legitimate, but in practice, with people running around hunting Cap and company (even as "The Underground" fights crime), it just seems silly to me. Then again, I like seeing people hit each other, so I'm still digging the event.

One more thing that's been bothering me: Captain America refuses to comply with the Superhuman Registration act, right? And he's immediately targeted by SHIELD (even before the Act took effect) because he's seen as a rabble-rouser or what not. My question is this--wouldn't Cap already be considered registered since he was actually created by the Government? The guy has worked with the Government many times in the past, they actually selected him and gave him super-powers, and yet he's considered as someone who isn't part of the registration pact? If they described his crime as "aiding and abetting", I'd go with it, but they really haven't made that distinction. Am I wrong?

[alexanderCARRERA360]

im enjoying frontline more than civil war