Chicago inquiry: Police tortured black suspects

[Fusion]

Chicago inquiry: Police tortured black suspects
'Guilt beyond reasonable doubt,' but crimes too old to prosecute

Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13936994/

Decide for yourself where the struggle still stands: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5439480/?r=6

CHICAGO - Special prosecutors investigating allegations that police tortured nearly 150 black suspects in the 1970s and ’80s said Wednesday they found evidence of abuse, but any crimes are now too old to prosecute.

In three of the cases, the prosecutors said the evidence was strong enough to have warranted indictments and convictions.

“It is our judgment that the evidence in those cases would be sufficient to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt,” Robert D. Boyle and Edward J. Egan wrote.

The four-year investigation focused on allegations that 148 black men were tortured in Chicago police interrogation rooms in the 1970s and ’80s. The men claimed detectives under the command of Lt. Jon Burge beat them, used electric shocks, played mock Russian roulette and started to smother at least one to elicit confessions.

No one has ever been charged, but Burge was fired after a police board found he had abused a suspect in custody. His attorney has said Burge never tortured anyone.

In about half the cases reviewed, Boyle and Egan said they found evidence of abuse.

Their report concluded that then-police Superintendent Richard J. Brzeczek was guilty of “dereliction of duty” and did not act in good faith in an investigation into claims of torture involving Burge.

State Attorney procedures faulted
They also faulted procedures followed by the Cook County State’s Attorney’s office and the police department at the time, saying the procedures were “inadequate in some respects” but had since improved.

Mayor Richard M. Daley was the state’s attorney during part of the period investigated, but Boyle dismissed any notion that Daley knew about the torture. Daley delegated responsibilities to other people in his office and that his only mistake was “perhaps relying on the judgment of others,” Boyle said.

Daley’s office and a police spokeswoman did not immediately return calls seeking comment Wednesday.

Boyle and Egan said they found three cases with enough evidence for convictions, including one involving the man whose abuse allegations led to Burge’s firing. Andrew Wilson, who was convicted of killing two police officers in 1982, claimed Burge and two detectives beat and tortured him with electric shocks.

“Regrettably, we have concluded that the statute of limitations would bar any prosecution of any offenses our investigation has disclosed,” the prosecutors said.

The statute of limitations for criminal charges from the allegations is three years.

Lawsuits in the works
Several people who claimed to have been abused by Chicago detectives have sued the city and the police department, and the report could bolster their cases. Attorney Locke Bowman of the MacArthur Justice Center said the City Council should pay for counseling for those who contend they were tortured.

“That is not where this matter should rest. That is not where it will rest,” Bowman said.

There had also been a legal battle over the release of the report. The Illinois Supreme Court eventually denied a request from a former prosecutor, listed in court documents only as “John Doe,” to block portions of the report from being released.

In May, a United Nations anti-torture panel said the Chicago investigation needs to go farther than it has. The panel said the United States should ensure that law enforcement officials who mistreat suspects are punished.

[Thommy Melanson]

The same can probably be found in almost every police station in America.

[joeyart]

jesus...this is horrid...

[Fusion]

I remeber seeing a video on the news of a black suspect who dared to run. They cornered him in an alleyway where he was on the ground and they were beating the shit out of him, and they were literally climing over eachother to kick and punch him. One guy was at his ankles trying to jump on them an break them. They only stopped or started actting professional when they saw the news chopper over head that had followed them.

[Ray G.]

Well, the bright side of these crimes being too old to prosecute is that we also know that all of these fuckers are probably off the force by now, making the streets a safer place.

[Fourthman]

I lived in Chicago from 71-74. I spent most of that time incarcerated... in a crib.

[half guard]

I lived in Chicago from 71-74. I spent most of that time incarcerated... in a crib.

those bastards! :mad:

[Fusion]

Well, the bright side of these crimes being too old to prosecute is that we also know that all of these fuckers are probably off the force by now, making the streets a safer place.

Yeah but its a drop in the bucket right now. If this happens in Chicago, I wonder how much of a blank check police get everyday in the south for example.

[half guard]

I wonder how much of a blank check police get everyday in the south for example.

yeah, because we're just a bunch of racist hicks who spend every waking hour trying to find new ways to beat black men and reinstitute slavery. obviously, living in the south, none of our police officers are actually honorable men / women who put their lives on the line everyday for people regardless of their skin color.

if only we could be as civilized and educated as our neighbors to the north. alas, we're destined to live as backwoods racist scum. apparently, we don't even have paved roads here. we have to take boats up and down the bayou to get to where we're going. :roll:

seriously, you have no clue what you're talking about. i live about as far south as possible in louisiana without actually being on a boat and i have a number of friends who are police officers / sheriff's deputies; none of whom act like you imagine or abuse their badge.

[Fusion]

yeah, because we're just a bunch of racist hicks who spend every waking hour trying to find new ways to beat black men and reinstitute slavery. obviously, living in the south, none of our police officers are actually honorable men / women who put their lives on the line everyday for people regardless of their skin color.

if only we could be as civilized and educated as our neighbors to the north. alas, we're destined to live as backwoods racist scum. apparently, we don't even have paved roads here. we have to take boats up and down the bayou to get to where we're going. :roll:

seriously, you have no clue what you're talking about. i live about as far south as possible in louisiana without actually being on a boat and i have a number of friends who are police officers / sheriff's deputies; none of whom act like you imagine or abuse their badge.

So you have been harrased by the police down there? I'm going off familly that lives there. But I don't think LA is any better for the record.

[Thommy Melanson]

yeah, because we're just a bunch of racist hicks who spend every waking hour trying to find new ways to beat black men and reinstitute slavery. obviously, living in the south, none of our police officers are actually honorable men / women who put their lives on the line everyday for people regardless of their skin color.

if only we could be as civilized and educated as our neighbors to the north. alas, we're destined to live as backwoods racist scum. apparently, we don't even have paved roads here. we have to take boats up and down the bayou to get to where we're going. :roll:

seriously, you have no clue what you're talking about. i live about as far south as possible in louisiana without actually being on a boat and i have a number of friends who are police officers / sheriff's deputies; none of whom act like you imagine or abuse their badge.

Based on my personal experience, I've found Southern police to be openly hostile, belligerent, ignorant, power-tripping assholes.

In both Knoxville, Tennessee and a small town outside Waco, TX the local police came into diners where my old band and I were eating and told us to go outside with them.

They took everyone's IDs and ran them. They questioned the members of our touring troupe that were black or brown or gay a hell of a lot more harshly than the rest of us.

Both times they ransacked our vans and damaged equipment.

Once they were done and found nothing illegal about us, they told us to get out of town, and that they were escorting us to the city limits.

In both cases, what was the reason they bothered us in the first place?

Someone called and said "a bunch of funny lookin' fellers is in here."

[half guard]

So you have been harrased by the police down there? I'm going off familly that lives there. But I don't think LA is any better for the record.


Based on my personal experience, I've found Southern police to be openly hostile, belligerent, ignorant, power-tripping assholes.

In both Knoxville, Tennessee and a small town outside Waco, TX the local police came into diners where my old band and I were eating and told us to go outside with them.

They took everyone's IDs and ran them. They questioned the members of our touring troupe that were black or brown or gay a hell of a lot more harshly than the rest of us.

Both times they ransacked our vans and damaged equipment.

Once they were done and found nothing illegal about us, they told us to get out of town, and that they were escorting us to the city limits.

In both cases, what was the reason they bothered us in the first place?

Someone called and said "a bunch of funny lookin' fellers is in here."

well, i can't argue situations you or your family members have been through, but i have never known of a situation with any of our police officers doing anything like you've described (at least not in my adulthood; the past 14 years).

even though we have cops who i know to generally be assholes, we've never had an incident of them being an asshole in uniform in a way that was abusive, etc. maybe my little hometown is a rarity in the south. who knows?

[Thudpucker]

Based on my personal experience, I've found Southern police to be openly hostile, belligerent, ignorant, power-tripping assholes.

In both Knoxville, Tennessee and a small town outside Waco, TX the local police came into diners where my old band and I were eating and told us to go outside with them.

They took everyone's IDs and ran them. They questioned the members of our touring troupe that were black or brown or gay a hell of a lot more harshly than the rest of us.

Both times they ransacked our vans and damaged equipment.

Once they were done and found nothing illegal about us, they told us to get out of town, and that they were escorting us to the city limits.

In both cases, what was the reason they bothered us in the first place?

Someone called and said "a bunch of funny lookin' fellers is in here."

I don't think you actually read the article:


The men claimed detectives under the command of Lt. Jon Burge beat them, used electric shocks, played mock Russian roulette and started to smother at least one to elicit confessions.

They are talking about literal torture chambers in Police stations, not Cops harrasing people.

You don't actually think every Police Station in America has torture chambers where the cops use electric shock and smothering techniques on people I hope, because that is pretty insulting.

[Thommy Melanson]

I don't think you actually read the article:
They are talking about literal torture chambers in Police stations, not Cops harrasing people.

No, I read the article - I was specifically counterpointing what Turtleface had said.

[Fusion]

well, i can't argue situations you or your family members have been through, but i have never known of a situation with any of our police officers doing anything like you've described (at least not in my adulthood; the past 14 years).

even though we have cops who i know to generally be assholes, we've never had an incident of them being an asshole in uniform in a way that was abusive, etc. maybe my little hometown is a rarity in the south. who knows?

Might be easier if you spent the day with them on the beat but who knows.

[Thudpucker]

No, I read the article - I was specifically counterpointing what Turtleface had said.

You are the first reply to the thread and you said:


The same can probably be found in almost every police station in America.

I don't see how you can reply with that answer, I don't get it.

[Mr. E!]

That article is horrid, but not a shock. I know this happened in the 70's and 80's, but keep in mind that today, we have an administration that sanctions this sort of behavior.

Anyway, don't people cheer when Jack Bauer does shit like that every week?

[Thudpucker]

Anyway, don't people cheer when Jack Bauer does shit like that every week?

People cheer when Jason kills some obnoxious teen in Friday the 13th too. That's the difference between fantasy and reality.

[Fusion]

People cheer when Jason kills some obnoxious teen in Friday the 13th too. That's the difference between fantasy and reality.

Yep, see "Hostle", "Saw", ect...

[Thommy Melanson]

You are the first reply to the thread and you said:



I don't see how you can reply with that answer, I don't get it.

They were two different replies.

The first one is because I'm sure most police stations in America have abused and tortured minorities.

The second one - specifically to Turtleface in response to Turtleface's comment about southern police - were a couple of personal anecdotes about the "Southern hospitality" I've seen from cops down south.

[Mr. E!]

People cheer when Jason kills some obnoxious teen in Friday the 13th too. That's the difference between fantasy and reality.

What? A diff...you're kidding! I never knew that! Thanks so much for explaining it to me! What would I do without you Thud?


Really. Thank you.

Ok, seriously now: my point was that torture seems to have become an accepted way to expedite getting information by some parts of our society. The AG went out of his way to sanction it in the early stages of the war. All the wingnuts came out of the woodwork and defended it. And as many people who are on here saying how horrible it is that people got tortured, there are others who probably see it as justified/justifiable.
I brought up the 24 reference because I thought it was rather telling that the protagonist in one of the most popular TV shows regularly uses torture as a solution to a problem, and people seem to revel in it. I thought it was an interesting correlation between people’s stated opinions and how they chose to entertain themselves. Yes, I know it is fiction. Yes, I know the difference between fantasy and reality. But isn’t entertainment, in some small way, a reflection of the attitudes and desires of society?
The other movies that were referenced, Saw, Hostel etc, I can’t write about, because I’ve never seen them. I’m assuming that in those films, torture is depicted as a bad thing, something painful, something the protagonists have to endure. In 24, it is seen as a means to an end, and is usually performed by the main character as a way of getting information.
Anyway, I hope this explains my thinking in a satisfactory manner.

This is the last time I make a pop culture reference on a pop culture message board…

[Thudpucker]

What? A diff...you're kidding! I never knew that! Thanks so much for explaining it to me! What would I do without you Thud?


Really. Thank you.

Ok, seriously now: my point was that torture seems to have become an accepted way to expedite getting information by some parts of our society. The AG went out of his way to sanction it in the early stages of the war. All the wingnuts came out of the woodwork and defended it. And as many people who are on here saying how horrible it is that people got tortured, there are others who probably see it as justified/justifiable.
I brought up the 24 reference because I thought it was rather telling that the protagonist in one of the most popular TV shows regularly uses torture as a solution to a problem, and people seem to revel in it. I thought it was an interesting correlation between people’s stated opinions and how they chose to entertain themselves. Yes, I know it is fiction. Yes, I know the difference between fantasy and reality. But isn’t entertainment, in some small way, a reflection of the attitudes and desires of society?
The other movies that were referenced, Saw, Hostel etc, I can’t write about, because I’ve never seen them. I’m assuming that in those films, torture is depicted as a bad thing, something painful, something the protagonists have to endure. In 24, it is seen as a means to an end, and is usually performed by the main character as a way of getting information.
Anyway, I hope this explains my thinking in a satisfactory manner.

This is the last time I make a pop culture reference on a pop culture message board…

You're welcome. And I'm glad to see you agree with me that making the suggestion that what people enjoy in entertainment is what they really want to see in real life is ridiculous and mildly insulting.

But since it's the last time you will do it all is good. At least you learn from mistakes and thank those who help you, quite refreshing! ;)

[Mr. E!]

You're welcome. And I'm glad to see you agree with me that making the suggestion that what people enjoy in entertainment is what they really want to see in real life is ridiculous and mildly insulting.


So what people enjoy in entertainment has absolutely nothing to do with what people want to see in real life? That's a pretty bold statement there Thud...