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sto110
06-15-2006, 10:02 AM
Taken from Newsarama.... the last line in teh civil war #2 interview




But Tony's real endgame is "The Initiative". As for what that is…stay tuned!

interesting......what could this be?
Discuss

Marcdachamp
06-15-2006, 10:05 AM
He's trying to bring back Earth-2.

bartleby
06-15-2006, 10:06 AM
initiative n.

1. The power or ability to begin or to follow through energetically with a plan or task; enterprise and determination.
2. A beginning or introductory step; an opening move: took the initiative in trying to solve the problem.
3.

1. The power or right to introduce a new legislative measure.
2. The right and procedure by which citizens can propose a law by petition and ensure its submission to the electorate.

Cth
06-15-2006, 10:08 AM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/83287853@N00/138758190/

IRONY MAN- STEREOPHONIC STARK

http://static.flickr.com/49/138758190_f6475f42d6.jpg

DURING THE INTERVIEW IRON MAN PROVIDED A REBUTTAL IN DIGITAL FORM WHEN ASKED IF HE COULD CONFIRM OR DENY THE RUMOUR THAT HE HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN A CATASTROPHIC MID-AIR COLLISION OVER THE OCEAN...

WHEN FURTHER QUESTIONED ABOUT STARK INTERNATIONAL'S SUBSTANTIAL DONATION TO THE DHARMA INITIATIVE IRON MAN ADDED, "TALK TO THE HANSO..."

----------------------------------------------

In twelve years of broadcasting I've not had much trouble with uncooperative interview guests; I reckon this one would be the exception that proves the rule!

Picture taken on a whim, with nothing but the ambient studio lighting. I've monkeyed around with the colour balances and a certain amount of, um, digital enhancement. But otherwise that's pretty much it.

Philip J Eaves
06-15-2006, 10:11 AM
My guess...
Tony is after more than just registration. He's a "Futurist," so he is always thinking ahead. What is going on right now, Tony has already thought about, decided, and has begun to consider the repurcussions and results.

Jim T.
06-15-2006, 10:26 AM
To me, The Initiative sounds a lot like The Final Solution - they're going to be rounding up the undesirable super powered folks and having the desirable super folks take up positions of power as a new master race.

I'm more and more convinced the Red Skull and Hate Monger are behind all of this - Tony's clearly under the control of someone now.

Ray G.
06-15-2006, 10:54 AM
So, Iron Man has an "endgame" that involves a prison camp.

But noooo, the sides in this story are supposed to be equally sympathetic. :roll:

Philip J Eaves
06-15-2006, 10:56 AM
So, Iron Man has an "endgame" that involves a prison camp.

But noooo, the sides in this story are supposed to be equally sympathetic. :roll:
You could argue that, up to the prison camp part, Tony's argument was reasonable, thus showing how illogical sensible people can be once an idea has run to its conclusion.

Jim T.
06-15-2006, 11:00 AM
So, Iron Man has an "endgame" that involves a prison camp.

But noooo, the sides in this story are supposed to be equally sympathetic. :roll:

Yeah, I never bought that. This whole thing is shaping up to be a commentary on America as Mark Millar sees it today and where it could end up.

Joe Henderson
06-15-2006, 11:03 AM
So, Iron Man has an "endgame" that involves a prison camp.

But noooo, the sides in this story are supposed to be equally sympathetic. :roll:

That sounds too polarizing to me. If anything, I'd say that the initiative would be something that AVOIDS a prison camp...maybe a way to depower heroes who don't go along with it?

Jim T.
06-15-2006, 11:11 AM
That sounds too polarizing to me. If anything, I'd say that the initiative would be something that AVOIDS a prison camp...maybe a way to depower heroes who don't go along with it?

Sounds very Mengele like!

Raphael J
06-15-2006, 11:14 AM
Wow. Some of you guys are really reaching here.

Could it be more similar to the internment camps that the American government used on Japanese citizens? It's much more likely to show a similarity to that than any Mengelian/Nazi machination.

xyzzy
06-15-2006, 11:16 AM
Wow. Some of you guys are really reaching here.

Could it be more similar to the internment camps that the American government used on Japanese citizens? It's much more likely to show a similarity to that than any Mengelian/Nazi machination.

Um. That's pretty damn horrible. One of the worst injustices ever visited by the U.S. on its own people.

Jim T.
06-15-2006, 11:20 AM
Wow. Some of you guys are really reaching here.



I dunno - it's Millar, after all. The guy's not known for the subtle...

Joe Henderson
06-15-2006, 11:22 AM
Sounds very Mengele like!

Mengele depowered superheroes? No wonder the Nazis lost!

Raphael J
06-15-2006, 11:23 AM
Um. That's pretty damn horrible. One of the worst injustices ever visited by the U.S. on its own people.

I agree completely. But, if you're going to compare it to any previous act commited by the government, so as to show that there has been a past line of mistakes due to hysteria over a national tragedy, I'd say that the internment camp is more accurate, even though it may not be as extreme as the comic goes.

Mike
06-15-2006, 11:24 AM
we don't know for sure that he's building an internment camp, prison camp, or whatever. that's all just speculation. the only way that the pro-reg side has been portrayed negatively so far is through reed, who is incredibly cold towards sue regarding johnny being in the hospital.

Kip K
06-15-2006, 11:32 AM
I think it would be worse to take someone's power away than to put them in jail (unless they had a way of restoring it).

Ray G.
06-15-2006, 11:34 AM
Wow. Some of you guys are really reaching here.

Could it be more similar to the internment camps that the American government used on Japanese citizens? It's much more likely to show a similarity to that than any Mengelian/Nazi machination.

Actually, it sounds to me like a hybrid of that and the McCarthy witch hunts. Either way, Tony's either being portrayed as a government stooge or a villain.

Raphael J
06-15-2006, 11:39 AM
Actually, it sounds to me like a hybrid of that and the McCarthy witch hunts. Either way, Tony's either being portrayed as a government stooge or a villain.

It's definitely that as well. I was just referring to if a prison/camp/whatever was formed.

But I disagree that Tony's portrayed as a government stooge or villain. If anybody, I thought that you'd identify with him because of how closely he resembles President Bush, making a difficult decision that he sees will bring immediate anger from his peers but something that he believes is essential for the security and stability of America's future. If anything, Tony Stark is the biggest neoconservative idealist character in the Marvel universe at this moment.

Ray G.
06-15-2006, 11:42 AM
It's definitely that as well. I was just referring to if a prison/camp/whatever was formed.

But I disagree that Tony's portrayed as a government stooge or villain. If anybody, I thought that you'd identify with him because of how closely he resembles President Bush, making a difficult decision that he sees will bring immediate anger from his peers but something that he believes is essential for the security and stability of America's future.

I sympathize with his position. I do. My main objection is just how willing he seemed to be to take Captain America and his allies down, and also the way he guilted and manipulated Peter. And for that matter, I'm not too thrilled with Cap's characterization either. I think both sides took the title way too literally. There's no reason this should be a war yet, besides the fact that Millar wanted it that way.

Jim T.
06-15-2006, 11:44 AM
It's definitely that as well. I was just referring to if a prison/camp/whatever was formed.

But I disagree that Tony's portrayed as a government stooge or villain. If anybody, I thought that you'd identify with him because of how closely he resembles President Bush, making a difficult decision that he sees will bring immediate anger from his peers but something that he believes is essential for the security and stability of America's future.

Tony comes off as a villain and the CW in general appears to be anti-US gov't for one simple reason: Cap's on the other side. Cap's the ultimate good guy - he's always on the side of right so a reader is always going to find himself favoring Cap's side. If Cap is against something, it has to be inherently wrong. It would be a similar situation on the DC side if Superman took a position.

Raphael J
06-15-2006, 11:46 AM
I sympathize with his position. I do. My main objection is just how willing he seemed to be to take Captain America and his allies down, and also the way he guilted and manipulated Peter. And for that matter, I'm not too thrilled with Cap's characterization either. I think both sides took the title way too literally. There's no reason this should be a war yet, besides the fact that Millar wanted it that way.

How are they at war though? As of yet, neither side has engaged the other. Right now each group is just staring the other down. It's all SHIELD acting against Captain America and his movement. Any actual confrontation between the groups has yet to be seen, so I don't see how you could say that. When he said what he did at the end of issue one, you have to think that it refers to his plans with Hank and Reed and not necessarily a physical confrontation (even though it will eventually come to that).

And Cap's hand was forced. What else was he supposed to do after the registration came into law?

Bill?
06-15-2006, 11:47 AM
has anyone made the Buffy connection?
maybe it's the name of a goverment controlled Avenger's like superhero team.

Raphael J
06-15-2006, 11:51 AM
Tony comes off as a villain and the CW in general appears to be anti-US gov't for one simple reason: Cap's on the other side. Cap's the ultimate good guy - he's always on the side of right so a reader is always going to find himself favoring Cap's side. If Cap is against something, it has to be inherently wrong. It would be a similar situation on the DC side if Superman took a position.

That's your opinion though. I personally agree with the Registration act. I don't see him as a villain, nor do I see Cap as such. To paint it in such absolutes, at least at this point in the series, just smacks of wanting the book to fail.

Cth
06-15-2006, 11:51 AM
Nah, I made a Matrix connection though.

Jim T.
06-15-2006, 11:54 AM
That's your opinion though. I personally agree with the Registration act. I don't see him as a villain, nor do I see Cap as such. To paint it in such absolutes, at least at this point in the series, just smacks of wanting the book to fail.

Definitely my opinion. I just don't see Millar doing a story involving politics that won't be painted in absolutes which, I admit, is disheartening. I'm not looking for it to fail. I guess I just expect and want more at this point.

Garra
06-15-2006, 12:06 PM
Touching on some earlier posts who were voicing their opinions about how Stark and Cap. America were being portrayed...

The way Peter Parker has been portrayed for a good long while now has bothered me.

They keep trying to play Peter Parker as if he is some kid playing for the first time (since he has joined the NA) playing with the big kids.

Granted this is his first major team he has been on, but SPider man/Peter parker is not some novice.

He has fought on as large a scale as almost any other heroe in the Marvel universe.

PLus he is an extremely intelligent prson. The man is a scientist for crying out loud. And at elast they have given some acknowledgements towards that in the last few months, over all they still try to pass Peter off as a wide, eyed, naive school boy.

I wish some of the current writers of Spider Man would do some back reading and catch up on his history and see that this guy is not some b-rate character standing around in awe of the others around him.

It seems to me that few of the current writers of spider man have any clue about this character over all.

o.k. I feel better...just my two cents :)

NickT
06-15-2006, 12:09 PM
So, Iron Man has an "endgame" that involves a prison camp.

But noooo, the sides in this story are supposed to be equally sympathetic. :roll:
Strangely, people breaking the law go to prison.



And you ignore the fact that Captain America KICKED A MAN OUT OF A MOVING VEHICLE INTO POLICE CARS. Oh yeah, soooo sympathetic.

A.Huerta
06-15-2006, 12:17 PM
And you ignore the fact that Captain America KICKED A MAN OUT OF A MOVING VEHICLE INTO POLICE CARS. Oh yeah, soooo sympathetic.



I thought that was fucked up, but thats how it is.

Generic Poster
06-15-2006, 12:22 PM
I'm more and more convinced the Red Skull and Hate Monger are behind all of this - Tony's clearly under the control of someone now.


Wha? Tony Stark under the control of a villain? The only way to undo that would be to replace him with a teenage version of himself from an alternate timeline!

Matt Jay
06-15-2006, 02:19 PM
Tony comes off as a villain and the CW in general appears to be anti-US gov't for one simple reason: Cap's on the other side. Cap's the ultimate good guy - he's always on the side of right so a reader is always going to find himself favoring Cap's side. If Cap is against something, it has to be inherently wrong. It would be a similar situation on the DC side if Superman took a position.

When's the last time a comic book villain said something like "Oh God, please let us be doing the right thing here..." If they're going to make Stark a villain, it hasn't started yet.

Jim T.
06-15-2006, 04:21 PM
Wha? Tony Stark under the control of a villain? The only way to undo that would be to replace him with a teenage version of himself from an alternate timeline!

Quiet you!

Lord Jermaine Retail
06-15-2006, 07:11 PM
So, Iron Man has an "endgame" that involves a prison camp.

But noooo, the sides in this story are supposed to be equally sympathetic. :roll:
It could be some kind of forced training system that keeps the occupant held somewhere until mastery of powers and strategies are completed. What would it entail for one to revolutionize super heroes?

Depowering mechanisms? Some of the Marvel characters are beyond undertstanding as to how they work let alone figuring out a way to inhibit their powers.

"Training camps" sound a lot like prison camps in that those who refuse to register or are forcibly registered but refuse to follow government orders will not be allowed to re-enter society. But if they were to be put through various tests (which perhaps could end up going further than Iron Man or Reed intended) to give them better controls or make them less volatile psychologically...

I'm trying to think what would be the logical answers and progressions to deal with super powered people who won't follow the new rules...

Brewtown Andy
06-15-2006, 07:19 PM
Come on, people, the initiative is very clearly NEXT summer's multi part story that involves Tony shooting everyone (and I mean everyone) who disagrees with him into space, just like Hulk.

Lord Jermaine Retail
06-15-2006, 07:22 PM
That sounds too polarizing to me. If anything, I'd say that the initiative would be something that AVOIDS a prison camp...maybe a way to depower heroes who don't go along with it?
How could one depower Ghost Rider or Hercules though? Doesn't work for some people and Reed and Tony would know that.

Lord Jermaine Retail
06-15-2006, 07:25 PM
Wow. Some of you guys are really reaching here.

Could it be more similar to the internment camps that the American government used on Japanese citizens? It's much more likely to show a similarity to that than any Mengelian/Nazi machination.
But Reed Richards is going to know an internment camp when he makes one in theory. Its something that should make sense to them and look good to them. Even from a public relations standpoint. If it looks like a prison camp then the pro-reg guys become clear-cut villains ala Infinite Crisis and I much prefer them believing they are doing the right thing and that in the long run its better that it come from them rather than the army or whomever.

Lord Jermaine Retail
06-15-2006, 07:26 PM
we don't know for sure that he's building an internment camp, prison camp, or whatever. that's all just speculation. the only way that the pro-reg side has been portrayed negatively so far is through reed, who is incredibly cold towards sue regarding johnny being in the hospital.
He wouldn't dump them in the negative zone or anything would he? Nah.

Lord Jermaine Retail
06-15-2006, 07:31 PM
I sympathize with his position. I do. My main objection is just how willing he seemed to be to take Captain America and his allies down, and also the way he guilted and manipulated Peter. And for that matter, I'm not too thrilled with Cap's characterization either. I think both sides took the title way too literally. There's no reason this should be a war yet, besides the fact that Millar wanted it that way.
Firstly, I don't think that Tony Stark can turn it off as far as being manipulative. He's a shrewd businessman and always looking at the angles. He's going to get you to unmask and think it was your own idea all along.

Cap and Iron Man know each other very, very well. Sometimes old friends argue. They both know that the other won't just change his mind or back down. I think the characterization is on point for both characters. They're both in preparation stages. Tony knows that Cap's team will be the real problem not any renegade heroes. And Cap knows that Iron Man is a problem solver and has something planned to solve the situation so he has to work fast. Cap's getting a lot done too. He's taking care of some lower level or unmotivated villains and getting to some targeted heroes first.

Kefky
06-15-2006, 07:33 PM
Ooooo, I know, I know!!!!

It's an atomic bomb that he plans on dropping on U.S. soil if the superheroes don't register!!!!

It's an army of evil uber-powerful iron-men to catch all the renegade superheroes and rip their heads off if they resist capture in any way!!!

It's a plan to kill all the presidents of the world and replace them with evil clones of his making so he can RULE EVERYTHING AND DO WHATEVER HE WANTS WITH SUPERHEROES!!!


You know I'm right!

Raphael J
06-15-2006, 07:36 PM
Firstly, I don't think that Tony Stark can turn it off as far as being manipulative. He's a shrewd businessman and always looking at the angles. He's going to get you to unmask and think it was your own idea all along.

Cap and Iron Man know each other very, very well. Sometimes old friends argue. They both know that the other won't just change his mind or back down. I think the characterization is on point for both characters. They're both in preparation stages. Tony knows that Cap's team will be the real problem not any renegade heroes. And Cap knows that Iron Man is a problem solver and has something planned to solve the situation so he has to work fast. Cap's getting a lot done too. He's taking care of some lower level or unmotivated villains and getting to some targeted heroes first.

Captain America getting results was one of my favorite moments of the issue. I believe that by showing that heroes that aren't registering can still get the job done safely sends a very strong message in the context of the story.

Lord Jermaine Retail
06-15-2006, 07:46 PM
Captain America getting results was one of my favorite moments of the issue. I believe that by showing that heroes that aren't registering can still get the job done safely sends a very strong message in the context of the story.
Millar is firing on all cylinders so far. Didn't know he had this in him. I was worried that he couldn't nail the characterization, but he has and things are progressing in way I did not expect.

thatguylobo
06-15-2006, 07:58 PM
we don't know for sure that he's building an internment camp, prison camp, or whatever. that's all just speculation. the only way that the pro-reg side has been portrayed negatively so far is through reed, who is incredibly cold towards sue regarding johnny being in the hospital.

I gotta say, that's not exactly uncharacteristic of Reed when he's busy with a project. Especially one interesting him as much as this one apparently is.

As for the Initiative, I woulden't be surprised if it was Tony attempting to start a new Illuminati.

Either that, or an underground base where the government can research monsters. Whatever.

Charles Chuck
06-15-2006, 09:19 PM
And for that matter, I'm not too thrilled with Cap's characterization either.


yeah, and i have to take issue with cap just tossing that sheild agent out of the truck cab to be run over. that was pretty violent and the sorta thing he wouldn't seem to do at all. i mean, that agent's DEAD. that can't help their cause.

Jim T.
06-16-2006, 04:45 AM
Come on, people, the initiative is very clearly NEXT summer's multi part story that involves Tony shooting everyone (and I mean everyone) who disagrees with him into space, just like Hulk.

Fucker - I nearly spit out my coffee laughing at that! :lol:

Lord Jermaine Retail
06-16-2006, 05:20 AM
yeah, and i have to take issue with cap just tossing that sheild agent out of the truck cab to be run over. that was pretty violent and the sorta thing he wouldn't seem to do at all. i mean, that agent's DEAD. that can't help their cause.
Guy was wearing special armor. The same armor Falcon used to rip Wiccan's bonds with his bare hands. Notice that the police cars were no match for the guy's armor. That's how I read the sequence anyway.

PoWerSurge
06-16-2006, 05:32 AM
What about if the initiative is the concept that to truely change the way the world works, you have to be part of the world.

Superheroes (and one of my pet peaves of the Civil War was them referring to themselves as super-heroes. This takes a way from the concept of "all in a days work" and "with great power", but I digress) have always had to be a step to the side (because a step above or below isn't always the case) of the status quo of how the world works. Joe Blow the street cop doesn't get to blowup buildings in his fights, but he doesn't have to fight Magneto, so it's kind of a trade off.

BUT, if Heroes become registered, they become part of the status quo, they become one with the establishment that oversees and pushes policy.

If Tony Stark is on the cabinet for the President, and ushers in a new golden age of the Heroes working for the people, it could be enough to one day get him elected president.

If Tony becomes President, he can do more. Being the Futurist that he is, he can truely shape the world much more than he ever could as Iron Man or the head of Stark Enterprises.

If Tony becomes President, would Captain America really be that far off of a Secretary of Defense? Reed Richards could hold one of several positions, along with Sue.

By starting the process of making heroes the establishment, it leads for an evolution where heroes decide what the establishment is, and don't have to worry about being above the law, because they are he law

Lord Jermaine Retail
06-16-2006, 05:42 AM
What about if the initiative is the concept that to truely change the way the world works, you have to be part of the world.

Superheroes (and one of my pet peaves of the Civil War was them referring to themselves as super-heroes. This takes a way from the concept of "all in a days work" and "with great power", but I digress) have always had to be a step to the side (because a step above or below isn't always the case) of the status quo of how the world works. Joe Blow the street cop doesn't get to blowup buildings in his fights, but he doesn't have to fight Magneto, so it's kind of a trade off.

BUT, if Heroes become registered, they become part of the status quo, they become one with the establishment that oversees and pushes policy.

If Tony Stark is on the cabinet for the President, and ushers in a new golden age of the Heroes working for the people, it could be enough to one day get him elected president.

If Tony becomes President, he can do more. Being the Futurist that he is, he can truely shape the world much more than he ever could as Iron Man or the head of Stark Enterprises.

If Tony becomes President, would Captain America really be that far off of a Secretary of Defense? Reed Richards could hold one of several positions, along with Sue.

By starting the process of making heroes the establishment, it leads for an evolution where heroes decide what the establishment is, and don't have to worry about being above the law, because they are he law
If I recall correctly there is to be a clear winner and a claer loser in this civil war. If Tony's initiative is the next thing, then I wonder if we're not getting a glimpse of the winning team...

bartleby
06-16-2006, 06:04 AM
yeah, and i have to take issue with cap just tossing that sheild agent out of the truck cab to be run over. that was pretty violent and the sorta thing he wouldn't seem to do at all. i mean, that agent's DEAD. that can't help their cause.


But to be fair, that SHIELD agent was being pretty annoying.

Kefky
06-16-2006, 06:15 AM
But to be fair, that SHIELD agent was being pretty annoying.

So Cap was basically being cranky because someone else had a different opinion than his.

"Sorry, boy, but your opinion's annoyin' me, so I'll have to show you my physical superiority to feel better about myself!"

Yea, Millar's still getting ultimate Cap mixed up with MU Cap.

bartleby
06-16-2006, 06:35 AM
So Cap was basically being cranky because someone else had a different opinion than his.

He didn't throw him out of the truck because of his opinion. He threw him out because he wouldn't stop talking... and also, his breath stunk.

Kefky
06-16-2006, 06:51 AM
He didn't throw him out of the truck because of his opinion. He threw him out because he wouldn't stop talking... and also, his breath stunk.

:lol: I don't if you're serious or not, but either way, the smilie fits!

bartleby
06-16-2006, 06:53 AM
:lol: I don't if you're serious or not, but either way, the smilie fits!


Oh, I'm deadly serious. Those pages were scratch-and-sniff, so you can actually smell the guy's rank breath while you're reading.

Kefky
06-16-2006, 06:55 AM
Oh, I'm deadly serious. Those pages were scratch-and-sniff, so you can actually smell the guy's rank breath while you're reading.

.....My LCS guy didn't even tell me!!! Damit, I tought we had a good thing goin'! :mad: