SHE-HULK #7 Thoughts & Reactions *SPOILERS*

[Dermie]

***WARNING!!! This thread contains SPOILERS for SHE-HULK #7!!! If you do not want to be spoiled, please do not read any further!!! You have been warned!!!!

I am torn in how I feel about this issue. In some ways, I really enjoyed it--I thought it was an interesting story, with nice art, some good twists and plot developments. On the other hand, as a long-time fan of Starfox, I feel that his character has been horribly misportrayed here. People have often commented on the 'creepy' nature of Starfox's powers...and somehow that
makes a lot of people assume that Eros himself must be a creepy guy. They seem to forget the fact that this guy is an Avenger, has been putting his life on the line as a hero for many years, and that past stories have raised the point that Eros does *not* abuse his powers in the way he is shown to do here.

I have to give Dan credit though--he does not simply ignore Starfox's history as a hero here. He acknowledges the continuity and makes it a part of the story. However, he does twist it into a new interpretation, and it is not one that I agree with and I feel it retroactively undermines every story that has ever used Starfox in a heroic role. His entire legacy as an Avenger is now tainted by the fact he is apparently a rapist who was victimizing his own teammates.

Anyway, back to the story...

The issue opens with a scene of Doc Samson's continued treatment of She-Hulk. Leonard mentions a 'magic solution' and calling Stephen in...pretty clearly setting up a guest appearance by Dr. Strange next issue to help with her trouble changing from Jen to She-Hulk. I look forward to seeing how Strange is going to help fix the problem.
It was also nice to see a reference to the enhanced strength She-Hulk had towards the end of the last volume. Hopefully she'll get it back again once her current problems are sorted out (and hopefully other writers will remember her enhanced strength with they use her for guest appearances).

I enjoyed the stuff with the Hydra agent, and the flashback to an untold adventure from Starfox's days as an Avenger. That was a fun little bit of nostalgia, and the aftermath with the ex-Hydra agent was amusing. It also answers a long-time debate on some boards about whether or not Starfox's powers can attract men as well (although its possible this Hydra agent was closetted gay or bisexual before this).

I loved the little cameos by various Avengers Jen approached to testify for his character. I was not at all surprised that Wasp, Herc and Quasar would stand up for his defense--all of them have served with him in the past and gotten along with him well. Pulsar (Monica Rambeau) saying she wasn't sure surprised me a little, but on the other hand, she didn't say 'no', and its true that Eros has come on pretty strong, so she probably didn't want to say something that could end up getting used against him.

It doesn't surprise me that Ms Marvel said no. Carol says her publicist wants her to stay away from it, but I also think Carol herself would be uncomfortable with the situation, given what happened to her years ago with Marcus. I'd always wanted to see Carol and Eros have to work together after that, to see how Carol would handle serving alongside someone who had the power to do to her what Marcus did.

Cap's refusal to help kind of annoyed me. He raises a valid point about his status as a symbol, and it does sound like the kind of thing Cap would say---on the other hand, he is turning his back on a friend and former teammate in a time of need.

Hank Pym's comments made me laugh. It is an unfortunate truth that Hank Pym will never be the person you want to have around as a character witness. Poor Hank.

Tigra...I'm a bit confused by her comments. I know she and Eros had a fling and toured space together for a while...so is she concerned that her testimony would be invalid due to bias? Or does she also feel that she was taken advantage of...and if so, why didn't she say anything?

Too bad Living Lightning wasn't one of the Avengers Jen approached. I still suspect that Eros had something to do with Miguel coming out of the closet last year.... ;)

The lunch scene between Jen and Jan was a lot of fun. These two have always been great friends, and its great to see them together again.

Stu Cicero gets to function as Dan's voice in his scene with Pug, expressing on-panel the opinions about Starfox that Dan has stated in some online interviews. And while I still understand why people get creeped out about the potential for abuse with his powers, it bugs me that people assume that he must be abusing them. I mean, the Invisible Woman could be the ultimate stalker and voyeur with her powers--but no one automatically assumes Sue is creepy. Any of Marvel's telepathic superheroes have great potential to abuse their powers in disturbing ways...but I rarely hear people making those complaints about Xavier, or Moondragon or Psylocke, etc.

We get a brief scene of Mallory and Andy, and apparently Mallory is now pursuing a relationship with Andy thanks to Eros' love zap last issue. I feel so badly for poor Andy, thinking about what he is going to go through once Mallory is back to her old self. On the other hand, we saw with that Hydra agent that Eros' powers could have long-term effects, so it may be a while before Andy's little fantasy falls apart.

The fact that Mr Zix was monitoring them reinforces my belief that he is actually Recorder Z-9 from the last volume (Jen's liason to the cosmic legal group, the Magistrati). It explains his obsession with watching everyone, his connections to cosmic groups like the Eternals and the TVA, and his immunity to Eros last issue.

Then we get to Christina Garvey's testimony, and when she mentions the 'irresistable pull' that compelled her to sleep with Starfox. This makes Jen flashback to her own fling with him, and suddenly she believes that he used his powers on her.
I am a bit surprised Jen would immediately suspect that though--She-Hulk has a history of being very forward and sexually aggressive. The fact that she would come onto Starfox like that is not in any way uncommon or out of character for her, so I'm not sure why she'd assume he influenced her.
But in any case, it appears that he did do it, because he avoids the subject, breaks out of his holding cell and tries to make a run for it before Jen can catch up with him.
He doesn't run fast enough, however, to escape a VERY pissed off She-Hulk, whose rage was so strong it bypassed the mental blocks preventing her from becoming She-Hulk on her own!

She-Hulk beats Eros bloody...and gives him a good, swift kick to where it counts the most--assuring he'll think twice before putting the moves on anyone for quite some time!

However, before Jen can decide what to do with him, Eros is teleported away by the Titans, who disapprove of how Eros has been treated.

So although this two-part story is over, there are still a lot of plot threads left hanging to be resolved, such as the fate of Starfox, and the lingering effect Eros has had on Jen and Mallory, and their relationships to John Jameson and Awesome Andy! (and, imo, another unresolved question is what the heck is *really* going on with Eros that is causing this out-of-character behaviour).

I look forward to seeing how all of these play out over upcoming issues (although I suspect some of them will be put on the backburner next issue due to the Civil War tie-in). And although I am not pleased with Dan's out-of-character portrayal of Starfox here, I will wait until the story has had a chance to play out fully before drawing my final conclusions. At the very least, I'm pleased that Dan has brought Starfox out of limbo and told an interesting story with him, even if I don't like the light it casts on him.

Thank gooddness we only have to wait another two weeks for SHE-HULK #8! :)

[Thudpucker]

Just figured I'd mention that we are doing this issue in the review thread this week:

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?p=1670213&posted=1#post1670213

Anyone interested please feel welcome to drop by and review it with us :)

[wessner]

This issue certainly surprised me. Normally in She-Hulk the first impressions of a case are disproven when more facts become clear later in the story. But in Starfox's case the first impressions turned out to be true! I think it shows that Dan is aware of his patterns as a writer and he played that off here to catch the readers off guard.

I had assumed that Jen/John/Pug triangle would be resolved in this issue. But now I'm not so sure that my assumptions about the direction this triangle will take will pan out. I was right that Pug would find Jen's love notes, but I was wrong that Jen and John would talk out their differences.

Evidence in the story so far indicates that Jen is definitely under Starfox's influence and John might be. The best way for this to settle out would be for the two of them to come to their senses, talk through the situation and then proceed either by ending the relationship or by strengthening it through mutual respect.

But if Starfox's influence isn't overcome, then at the very least Jen and John's relationship has been artificially accelerated. At the worst, it's been forced in a direction that it normally wouldn't go.

I think both relationships, Jen/John and Mallory/Andy are going to crash hard! The Mallory/Andy affair probably can't be salvaged. It remains to be seen if the Jen/John relationship meets with a similar fate.

A major strike against John is that we've never seen his side of the relationship. We've only seen John through Jen's eyes or Pug's. We don't really know what he's thinking. It might not be anything bad, but lacking his point of view, I have to wonder.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

I found the end of #7 very satisfying, though I confess I didn't really imagine that's the way things would go when I read #6. Stu's Pepe le Peu analogy was actually very insightful - I classed Starfox's antics as a joke (well, I mean, space-farmer's daughter? Space-bimbos? And so on), even when the events surrounding the trial suggested otherwise, and it really took the big 'slap in the face' moment of Jen realising she'd been played to make me realise the ramifications of powers like that out in the 'real' world. Up until then, I'm sorry to say I was still expecting something to come up which would exonerate Starfox. But like Stu says, if you look at Pepe le Peu as an adult... of course, Pepe's world is comedy, and you can't take it seriously. But the Marvel world isn't a cartoon - Eros behaved as if it were, which was fine for him, but the consequences for those around him were horrible, just like if that poor cat with white paint on her back were real. Kudos to Dan for that treatment of the story.

I can see how Starfox fans might be annoyed though. But me, I'd never heard of the guy until now, so this works for me.

John Jameson is really irking me. Now I know the guy's had problems with monthly fur-and-fangs, and that's the kind of thing that'll put a few clouds on anyone's mental horizon - and yes, his influence on Jen seems to have been magnified by Eros's meddling, such that she's accepting his dislike of her big green side without complaint... but still, I'm just mightily upset that he doesn't have the self-awareness to recognise that She-Hulk isn't 'Man-Wolf with boobs', and that her transforming isn't something she should feel ashamed or afraid of. You'd think Jen snapping at him in #6 would have made an impression, even if she herself dismissed it after Starfox got his grubby little mits into the situation. When you do something that pisses your girlfriend off such that she storms out, even if she says later on it's okay, you'd give some thought to what had happened, wouldn't you? Even in the best case scenario, the boy's got a bad case of clueless.

Anyway. Possibly because of Starfox (does his influence count as 'magic'? If so, will Doc's new strategy identify it?), Jen's taken on John's aversion to She-Hulk to the point that it's evidently interfering with her ability to transform and reach her full potential, and that's just not right. Jameson's problems with transforming are his, not Jen's, and it bugs me to see him subtly inflicting them on her. And poor Pug... speaking of, I wonder what he's up to, being 'gone for a while'? Has he put two and two together regarding Starfox's influence on Jen with regards to John, or is he just taking a time out because he doesn't want to be around lovestruck Jen mooning (aha) over Jameson all the time? I suspect the former. That Hydra agent is proof that Starfox's glamour is long-lasting, and can't be shrugged off even if you're aware of it and want it gone - what'll it take to get Jen back to normal? As normal as usual, anyway.

I feel really bad for Andy - he's got that sentimental Frankenstein-creature thing going on, and I just can't see any way he's not going to get his feelings crushed when/if the love bug wears off Mallory. Unless, Starfox notwithstanding, she decides that she really does prefer him to Kid... but I wouldn't put money on a happy ending there. I'm curious to see how it plays out though - Andy's going to be hurt, unquestionably, but unless I miss my guess, Book really does care for the big guy as a friend, so I'm wondering if maybe she'll take the time to ease him down gently, rather than just reverting instantly to the bitch-queen-from-hell we know and... know. Mallory's been portrayed, I think, a bit childish over her resentment of Jen - I wouldn't mind seeing a more mature side of her. If nothing else, it'd make her a more credible office rival for Jen. She hurt Andy's feelings unwittingly when she told Kid there was nothing between them, but now she knows the full extent of Andy's feelings - will she dump him like a hot potato, or show that she really does care, even if romance isn't an option, and do her best not to devastate the poor guy?

(I'm kind of wondering though, kissing Andy... is that metal, or what? For some reason, I always imagined his 'shell' as being kind of concrete-y.)

[Dermie]

You'd think Jen snapping at him in #6 would have made an impression, even if she herself dismissed it after Starfox got his grubby little mits into the situation. When you do something that pisses your girlfriend off such that she storms out, even if she says later on it's okay, you'd give some thought to what had happened, wouldn't you? Even in the best case scenario, the boy's got a bad case of clueless.

Don't forget that John was also there when Starfox zapped Jen--so he may very well have zapped John too, which would muddy John's perception of the situation.

Possibly because of Starfox (does his influence count as 'magic'?

No, his powers are not magic based.


If so, will Doc's new strategy identify it?)

That is possible.

(I'm kind of wondering though, kissing Andy... is that metal, or what? For some reason, I always imagined his 'shell' as being kind of concrete-y.)

Its not metal--its more of a synthetic skin.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Don't forget that John was also there when Starfox zapped Jen--so he may very well have zapped John too, which would muddy John's perception of the situation.
That's a very good point. I guess it comes down to what Eros can actually do to a person's mind. Through the two issues there's various instances of him manipulating euphoria in various ways - he's reinforced specific suggestions he's made (to Mallory: "You care for him a great deal, don't you?"), and in the cases of Mrs Garvey and Jen he seems to have just been broadcasting horny-waves without having to say or do anything specific to anchor them. In the case of John/Jen, I'd say it's him saying "You're perfect for each other" that's the notion he implanted in them - that's linked to euphoric feelings for both of them, which no doubt overrules any evidence to the contrary, for the moment.

Actually, looking back with that in mind, I'm inclined to perhaps revise my ideas about what's going on. I maintain that Jameson is a jerk during the original argument with Jen about whether or not she should stay Jen. But, she was She-Hulk when Starfox told the two of them they were perfect for each other. And since then he tried to apologise to Jen, and subsequently was still smiling as she de-Hulked right in front of him, when he showed up during her and Janet's lunch. I wonder if what's actually happened is that Starfox implanted in Jameson the idea that Jen, transformations to She-Hulk and all, is perfect? And at the same time, gave Jen the idea that she should remain Jen (after all, the guy who is 'perfect' for her had, when Eros zapped her, last been upset by her transforming) - so the two of them have basically flipped perspectives, with Jameson now hunky-dory with transformation, and Jen now averse to the idea.

And I wonder too, does Zix know Jen's been zapped? He keeps a pretty close watch on the goings-on in the office, and I doubt he was watching Andy and Mallory out of prurient interest. If he suspects something's amiss there (no offence Andy, but let's face it, you'd have to at least wonder), and he can pull up a surveillance tape of what happened in the corridor with Starfox laying on the lurve, he'd probably see Jen and Jameson cop it too. Unless he was being purely literal in saying 'no I'm not happy', he at least realised Eros had tried to put the whammy on him on the same occasion. But if he did know, would he do anything? He's quite passive, all things considered - consistent with his apparent secret identity, he doesn't take sides or really have an agenda of his own, so I wonder if he'll consider it any of his business whether Jen's been Starfoxed or not.

I suppose Jen will need a new gamma changer - the anger at Eros that let her transform (and apparently to her full super-She-Hulk level, go Jen!) would likely be a one-off. Building a new one wouldn't be a hassle, though (at least, I can't see why it would). I don't think we saw her forearm in Civil War #1, so no way to tell if she was wearing one there.

[wessner]

And I wonder too, does Zix know Jen's been zapped? He keeps a pretty close watch on the goings-on in the office, and I doubt he was watching Andy and Mallory out of prurient interest. If he suspects something's amiss there (no offence Andy, but let's face it, you'd have to at least wonder), and he can pull up a surveillance tape of what happened in the corridor with Starfox laying on the lurve, he'd probably see Jen and Jameson cop it too. Unless he was being purely literal in saying 'no I'm not happy', he at least realised Eros had tried to put the whammy on him on the same occasion. But if he did know, would he do anything? He's quite passive, all things considered - consistent with his apparent secret identity, he doesn't take sides or really have an agenda of his own, so I wonder if he'll consider it any of his business whether Jen's been Starfoxed or not.

Zix might not be aware of Starfox's affect on his staff. Every incident recounted in the court case had Starfox's power create an attraction by the affected person for Starfox himself. It might not occur to Zix or even Jen that Starfox's power can create an attraction between two different people. I wonder if Pug will be the one to figure this out.


I suppose Jen will need a new gamma changer - the anger at Eros that let her transform (and apparently to her full super-She-Hulk level, go Jen!) would likely be a one-off. Building a new one wouldn't be a hassle, though (at least, I can't see why it would). I don't think we saw her forearm in Civil War #1, so no way to tell if she was wearing one there.

Future issue previews suggest that we've seen the last of the gamma charger. :)

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Zix might not be aware of Starfox's affect on his staff. Every incident recounted in the court case had Starfox's power create an attraction by the affected person for Starfox himself. It might not occur to Zix or even Jen that Starfox's power can create an attraction between two different people. I wonder if Pug will be the one to figure this out.
Perhaps... but it seemed like Zix was specifically watching Mallory and Andy, rather than just surfing the office surveillance cameras and stopping on them because he wanted to see what shape Andy's... no, I really shouldn't finish that sentence. Zix is almost certainly tied into the building's surveillance somehow - in #1 he can hear what's happening in the conference room after the big 'crash' that's actually audible to Jen as well - so the way I see it, if he's bothering to actually bring something up on a screen and look at it, he has a reason to do so. That to me seems to be laying groundwork for him having at least an idea that something screwy is going on there, and it's not a great leap in logic to think Starfox might be the cause, even if you hadn't seen him use his powers to reinforce non-Starfox-related suggestions before. More likely him than anything else that'd happened lately to Book or Andy, anyway.

(Incidentally, I just noticed - the 'first' time he meets Jen, he says it's "good to see you a-", and she cuts him off before he can say, presumably, 'again'. Neat touch - not obvious at first glance, but once you know, it's worth a grin. I only found #1-3 a couple of days ago, so it's new ground to me.)

Future issue previews suggest that we've seen the last of the gamma charger. :)
I hope it at least gets a mention when they tackle Jen's problem magically, as was hinted at... It's not that I like the gizmo (if Jen's got detectable block issues even with it, it seems a bit redundant story-wise), but I don't see how getting pissed at Eros would 'cure' her of the need for it that she was suffering beforehand. Simply put, I don't see that Jen would be any more capable of transforming at will at the end of #7 than she was at the beginning, so if she's gonna be fixed, this issue's unaided Hulk-out shouldn't really be a helping factor much.

[Dreg]

This issue was a weird combination of wacky and serious, from beginning to end. If we take it all seriously, then Starfox apparently raped four of his teammates, and there's just no way you can go from shocking drama to slapstick comedy so quickly...the end felt dishonest somehow. And with the Civil War tie-in coming up, will the repercussions ever be felt? Or will the serious psychological trauma of a sex victim be glossed over so that Captain America can scowl and Iron Man can moralize for 30 pages? When you think about it, the crimes Starfox is apparently guilty of are worse than what Dr. Light did in Identity Crisis. He was a hero and a friend to these women, and he abused his trust.

[Icefan]

When you think about it, the crimes Starfox is apparently guilty of are worse than what Dr. Light did in Identity Crisis. He was a hero and a friend to these women, and he abused his trust.

I would agree insomuch that in this case there's the added tragedy that Starfox probably still doesn't understand what was wrong with what he was doing. You have here a case where the character has heroic qualities, yet is still the heel. With IDC I couldn't really muster up any "sympathy" for old Artie because he really wasn't anything but a turd.

[Dermie]

And I wonder too, does Zix know Jen's been zapped?

I believe he does--after Eros zapped Jen, John and Mallory last issue Zix immediately came up to Eros and said he was going to tell his father about his inappropriate behaviour.

If we take it all seriously, then Starfox apparently raped four of his teammates

Four? Assuming he raped Jen and Tigra, who are the other two?

[Kevinroc]

Ugh, Dan. I love your stuff but this issue just didn't work for me at all. I'm not even a huge Starfox fan and I was disgusted.

When Thanos is not the creepiest member of the family, something is seriously wrong.

[Patrick King]

I liked this issue, but it seemed... angry. I mean, Jen flips out and knees Starfox in the back, before beating the hell out of him and then finally kicking him where it counts. I'm really curious to see how the Mallory/Andy relationship works out, I hope the big lug doesn't take it too hard if/when it crashes and burns.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

And with the Civil War tie-in coming up, will the repercussions ever be felt? Or will the serious psychological trauma of a sex victim be glossed over so that Captain America can scowl and Iron Man can moralize for 30 pages?

I don't think it'd bother me if there didn't seem to be serious psychological trauma stemming out of this. Now, this is a tricky point, so please bear in mind that I'm most definitely NOT condoning what Starfox did in any way - he's scum and he earned that gamma-powered kick to the nuts, and whatever else Zix's 'contacts' can dish out to him justice-wise. But is this going to be something that would hang over Jen in a major way? I'm just not sure it would, to the extent of seriously traumatising her. What Starfox made her do wasn't far removed from what she might have done in any case - indeed, she joked about it to Janet, and clearly didn't see her behaviour then as anything unusual (compared to Mrs Garvey, who could clearly see that her behaviour had been influenced - even as Starfox was putting his costume back on, she was aghast at what had happened).

Now lemme say again, this is in no way condoning Starfox's actions. But the degree to which he influenced Jen seems like it would have been less than that to which he influenced Mrs Garvey. Granted individuals react differently, but I think it's possible that this means that the degree of trauma Jen suffered would be less. If she's able to deal with what happened to her, to essentially put it behind her and get on with her life, I don't think that would necessarily be unrealistic.

Hell of a tricky topic to discuss. I hope you won't take my comments the wrong way - what Starfox did was despicable, and Jen has every right to potentially feel seriously abused. I'm just saying that, if she is able to deal with those feelings relatively swiftly, I don't think that's necessarily bad writing.

(I've got to say, I do love that a comic book leads to this much thought, and provides such an ample amount of fodder for discussion. I'm a Witchblade fan too, but I get a bit weary of the occasional issues that just seem to be page after page of 'Sara beats up demon-of-the-week'.)

That aside, as you bring it up I'm hopeful there won't be a great deal of Cap and Iron Man in #8. I don't mind them (not a reader of either, but I'll be getting the main Civil War line to see how they go), but I think She-Hulk is perfectly placed to tackle the issues of Civil War, not the personalities. Get some low-priority superhero into court in a Civil War related case (refusal to submit to registration, or whatever) and let both sides have at in in a war of words. I may be a bit biased, but I think the She-Hulk issue could be one of the best of the whole Civil War sprawl, simply for this reason - Civil War is a matter of law, where better to express it than in a courtroom?

I believe he does--after Eros zapped Jen, John and Mallory last issue Zix immediately came up to Eros and said he was going to tell his father about his inappropriate behaviour.

Could be, but he could equally have been referring to Starfox beating up Andy and that guy in the grizzly bear suit. Zix's reply to Starfox's 'does that make you happy?' - 'No it doesn't' - could be interpreted as Zix knowing Starfox just tried a whammy on him, or it could be purely literal, with no implication that he knows what Starfox was doing (given that it's Zix, a literal response wouldn't be out of character).

[Dreg]

Four? Assuming he raped Jen and Tigra, who are the other two?

I was just assuming all of the female teammates declined to show up because they had been abused by Starfox. I think Ms. Marvel and Photon probably had been to a lesser degree than Tigra and Jennifer, though.

[Matthew]

Will get time to read this after work today...finally!

Looking forward to it, I must say.

[Dermie]

I was just assuming all of the female teammates declined to show up because they had been abused by Starfox. I think Ms. Marvel and Photon probably had been to a lesser degree than Tigra and Jennifer, though.

No, neither of them had been abused by him. Eros had flirted with Monica, but nothing ever happened between them. As for Carol, she's barely met Eros---I can't recall a single on-panel conversation between them. They've been together in big group scenes where every Avenger was called in, but that's about it.

And as for Jen and Tigra, it has yet to be proven he abused either of them. Jen simply jumped to the conclusion that Starfox had used his powers on her--it hasn't been proven.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

And as for Jen and Tigra, it has yet to be proven he abused either of them. Jen simply jumped to the conclusion that Starfox had used his powers on her--it hasn't been proven.
In Jen's case, I thought Starfox's reaction was pretty conclusive. It wasn't even a general question she asked him that could have referred to any instance (like zapping her and Jameson, or on the courthouse steps at the beginning of #6) - she put the question to him specifically about the time they shacked up in the Avengers mansion, and he couldn't have reacted any more guiltily if he tried. Short of him coming out and saying it, I can't think of any stronger indicator that, yes, he did it.

[Dermie]

In Jen's case, I thought Starfox's reaction was pretty conclusive. It wasn't even a general question she asked him that could have referred to any instance (like zapping her and Jameson, or on the courthouse steps at the beginning of #6) - she put the question to him specifically about the time they shacked up in the Avengers mansion, and he couldn't have reacted any more guiltily if he tried. Short of him coming out and saying it, I can't think of any stronger indicator that, yes, he did it.

I agree that his suspicious behaviour does imply some kind of guilt--but it has not yet been conclusively proven. We'll have to wait and see what happens when Dan returns to this thread down the road.

[Taxman]

I was just assuming all of the female teammates declined to show up because they had been abused by Starfox. I think Ms. Marvel and Photon probably had been to a lesser degree than Tigra and Jennifer, though.Ms. Marvel was never even on the team with Starfox, well except for the begining of Busiek's run. I said this over on Bendis side, and I am sticking with it; I reject out of hand the notion the Eros used his power to seduce She-Hulk. I think we are going to find, in the end, that we saw a big misunderstanding in this issue. Anyone who has read any West Coast Avengers with Tigra in it knows that it pretty much impossible for her to have been rapped by him. I also don't think there is any reason to think that the Wasp evern came close to getting intimate with him.

[Dermie]

Ms. Marvel was never even on the team with Starfox, well except for the begining of Busiek's run.

Yep; they've barely spent any time together on-panel.

I reject out of hand the notion the Eros used his power to seduce She-Hulk. I think we are going to find, in the end, that we saw a big misunderstanding in this issue.

I tend to agree. Shulkie is that forward with men without any outside influence, so there really isn't much reason to think he would *need* to use his power on her. And considering that Eros flirted with several other Avengers women who did NOT sleep with him, I tend to doubt that he'd use his power on one, but not the others.

I also don't think there is any reason to think that the Wasp evern came close to getting intimate with him.

Especially since in this very issue Jan says that she *considered* making a move on him, but didn't.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Shulkie is that forward with men without any outside influence, so there really isn't much reason to think he would *need* to use his power on her.

I still can't look past Starfox's reaction when Jen put the question to him - he practically said "Guilty!" in ten-foot-tall letters. If he hadn't done it, all he had to do was say 'no, I didn't do it'. Instead he busted out of jail and fled, knowing that he was making himself an outlaw on Earth, and could never return.

And considering that Eros flirted with several other Avengers women who did NOT sleep with him, I tend to doubt that he'd use his power on one, but not the others.

I think it's a matter of degree. Clearly Starfox has the ability to vary his influence - he dulled Jen's anger at him on the courtroom steps in #6, and that basically wore off after there event, whereas we saw that his influence on the Hydra agent persisted more or less permanently, even though Starfox was nowhere near him during his jail time.

So I'd say what he did to Jen was a subconscious influence - but not a command. Kind of like getting her drunk, in terms of reduced inhibitions, only with regard to a specific suggestion, 'make out with Starfox'. Jen's a free spirit, and not the kind to fight an urge when she could indulge it, so she subconsciously accepted the suggestion. Someone more reserved might resist the suggestion, as I suspect Photon did - from what she said, she clearly felt Starfox's intention towards her, and (unless she fell for it and is refusing to acknowledge it, which I don't think we can just assume without further evidence) she resisted it. I found her reaction consistent - if you weren't inclined to sleep with any hot guy who wandered across your path, and you saw Starfox leering at you and felt an urge to get with him, you'd likely feel damn uncomfortable.

I think it's clear that when Jen's listening to Mrs Garvey's testimony, she's recognising the effects being described - the 'irresistable pull'. It may not be irresistable full stop, but to someone who fantasises about super-heroes, it was. Likewise Jen - if she'd had a strong inclination not to sleep with Starfox she might have been able to turn him down. But that doesn't alter the fact that he influenced her with regards to her ability to consent - likely not to a great degree, but he did it, and he should pay for it.

If nothing else, he's now guilty of resisting arrest and fleeing custody. He was brought up on charges, legally and properly under US law, and whether or not you think he's guilty, it's right and proper that he be pursued and brought back to stand trial until a verdict is reached. Get Olivia Benson an omega-class warp suit and some kind of psychic shield, and let justice take its course, is my view.

[Taxman]

I still can't look past Starfox's reaction when Jen put the question to him - he practically said "Guilty!" in ten-foot-tall letters. If he hadn't done it, all he had to do was say 'no, I didn't do it'. Instead he busted out of jail and fled, knowing that he was making himself an outlaw on Earth, and could never returnShe asked him whether he had ever used his power on her, and he had obviously done so just the prior issue to cause her obsession over John. He may well of thought that she was on to that and paniced.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

She asked him whether he had ever used his power on her, and he had obviously done so just the prior issue to cause her obsession over John. He may well of thought that she was on to that and paniced.

No, he tried to smile off her general question - when she followed up with "That night in the Avengers mansion... when we... when the two of us..." that's when he gets uncomfortable and decides that leaving Earth forever is preferable to finishing that conversation, and the trial. I just don't see the room for ambiguity - it could be that he was thinking of something else, or that there's some other explanation entirely for what happened, but so far as I can see he as good as confessed, unless credible evidence to the contrary turns up later on.

[Taxman]

No, he tried to smile off her general question - when she followed up with "That night in the Avengers mansion... when we... when the two of us..." that's when he gets uncomfortable and decides that leaving Earth forever is preferable to finishing that conversation, and the trial. I just don't see the room for ambiguity - it could be that he was thinking of something else, or that there's some other explanation entirely for what happened, but so far as I can see he as good as confessed, unless credible evidence to the contrary turns up later on.Well, if that is where this thing ends up, I will not be happy. Jen beating Eros up was still awesome though.