PDA

View Full Version : Spider-Woman:Origin # 5: My thoughts (Spoilers)



Tom Burgos
04-19-2006, 11:01 AM
Well, here it is finally, and I have to admit that I am very disappointed:Jessica finally meets her dad again, and he turns out to be a real bastard after all.

Yep...it wasn't a Hydra memory implant after all...Jonathan Drew has been retconned as a cold, calculating son of a b###h who sees his daughter as his greatest achievement, but in a "My Hydra Experiment Gone Right;My greatest scientific triumph" way, not in a "my dear daughter, I love U and I'm proud of all you've accomplished so far" way.

All Jonathan could ask her daughter after so many years without seeing her was questions that pertained to her status as a scientific breakthrough.
He didn't cry. He didn't say "I'm sorry" or anything.
(I'm surprised that if we are to believe this is her origin, she didn't "become" a lesbian later on...according to this,every man in Jessica's developmental stage turned out to be unloving,two-timing, lying, cheating bastards.)

Anyway,according to this issue, it turns out that all those random images of people with cow heads and werewolves (and the High Evolutionary) that Jessica saw at different points throughout the mini, were Hydra's way of keeping her in check: Seems every time Jessica tried to defy Hydra, her mind "punished" her (the book's explanation, not mine)
Alrighty...
No, I still don't understand it...it was not too clear in terms of how it was presented...

I did like that Bendis and Reed tied her origin to the cool story from Marvel Two In One 29-32, the one in which Hydra was creating an army of spider-women, based on the DNA readings and the experiments that had been made on Jessica, and I loved how Jessica kicked so much ass in her mano a mano with not only a contingent of Hydra agents but a dozen of "spider-Women" who seemed to possess the same powers and abilities as Jessica.

However, another thing that was kinda unclear: Jessica planted some explosives underneath the platform of the oil rig on which she was battling the other Spiderwomen...but when the bombs went off, how in hell did Jessica survive while all the other women presumably did not?
She was clearly still on the platform,and the bomb exploded right after we get a close up of Jessica being overpowered by the sheer number of Spider-Women against her...but after that we sea Jessica drifting at see, conscious but weak, and then we get fast forward to several days later, with Jessica fine and dandy, talking to Nick Fury atop San Francisco's Oakland Bay Bridge...she decides not to work for SHIELD anymore and stay in San Francisco to start a career as a superhero.
Nice shot of Jessica in costume, soaring away from Fury, the end.


I am still scratching my head at the whole thing: Was High Evolutionary retconned out of Jessica's history?
If he was, why did Hydra implant an image of him in Jessica's mind? Why did the villanous man who
brought Jessica into Hydra had the same last name as the High Evolutionary?
Was Bova a cow-woman or not?
Why the werewolves?
Does this mean that all the events that pertained to Jonathan Drew and his relation to Edgar Wyndham and the Evolutionary War are not in continuity anymore?
Why did this mini, who I assumed would finally give a sensical closure to Jessica's convoluted story and streamline her origin, actually confused me more?

God knows I loved the first four issues, totally action packed, full of intrigue, twists and all around kickass developments and suspense.
I am not saying this is badly written, but it's unsatisfying as hell...

I don't mind if the High Evolutionary is retconned out of Jessica's history, what I mind is that the mini didn't make it clear whether he was or not.
Maybe I just didn't understand it.
The first two issues get an A from me, the last issue, a C-, mainly cuz it was unsatisfying and disappointing.

Again, not a slam against the writers , God knows I will always be grateful to Bendis and Reed for this mini and to Bendis in particular for making Jessica popular again, but as far as this last issue, I didn't love it at all.

I would love to hear others' reactions and thoughts...maybe you guys can shed some light on things I might have missed and angles I might have overlooked.

In any case, I am still as excited about the upcoming Spider-Woman ongoing as always.
My anticipation for that book hasn't weakened in the least, and I can't wait till Maleev and Bendis go to town on that sure-to-be-kickass book!

Ashton
04-19-2006, 11:04 AM
time to have your Spider-Woman fanclub card suspended Tom.

Tom Burgos
04-19-2006, 11:06 AM
time to have your Spider-Woman fanclub card suspended Tom.


Noooooo!!!!!! :mrgreen:

Ashton
04-19-2006, 11:09 AM
gonna check it out tonight though.

Ray G.
04-19-2006, 11:24 AM
time to have your Spider-Woman fanclub card suspended Tom.

Then I guess my Supergirl fanclub card was suspended a loooooong time ago. :lol:

Ashton
04-19-2006, 11:32 AM
Then I guess my Supergirl fanclub card was suspended a loooooong time ago. :lol:

you're in good company on that one.

Ray G.
04-19-2006, 11:33 AM
you're in good company on that one.

So's your mom! :mad:

Tom Burgos
04-19-2006, 11:36 AM
I like the Supergirl book... :scared:

Ashton
04-19-2006, 11:38 AM
I like the Supergirl book... :scared:

you think it'll be good with Kelly?

Tom Burgos
04-19-2006, 11:43 AM
you think it'll be good with Kelly?


Wait?
Joe Kelly?
What happened to Rucka?

Did I miss something?

Ashton
04-19-2006, 11:46 AM
Wait?
Joe Kelly?
What happened to Rucka?

Did I miss something?

you don't know? Rucka is off because of too large of a workload, and I haven't read Kelly's superman or X-Men books so I don't know how he'll be really.

Ashton
04-19-2006, 11:47 AM
So's your mom! :mad:

well give my mom a break, I was going to add supergirl to my list but don't want to now that Rucka's off the title.

Ryan F
04-19-2006, 11:47 AM
I don't mind if the High Evolutionary is retconned out of Jessica's history, what I mind is that the mini didn't make it clear whether he was or not.
Maybe I just didn't understand it.
The first two issues get an A from me, the last issue, a C-, mainly cuz it was unsatisfying and disappointing.



I've avoided this mini because of such continuity nightmares. I understand why you would want to keep the High Evolutionary out of the picture, but why bring him up at all?

And if you do retcon him away, you fuck up a lot of Marvel history. I'd be happy to never read a comic with the High Evolutionary in it again, but don't go messing up the old continuity (unless you have some great story reason). I guess it's better that they left it confusing than flat out erasing it.

And I always liked cow Bova.

Tom Burgos
04-19-2006, 12:21 PM
I've avoided this mini because of such continuity nightmares. I understand why you would want to keep the High Evolutionary out of the picture, but why bring him up at all?

And if you do retcon him away, you fuck up a lot of Marvel history. I'd be happy to never read a comic with the High Evolutionary in it again, but don't go messing up the old continuity (unless you have some great story reason). I guess it's better that they left it confusing than flat out erasing it.

And I always liked cow Bova.

That's part of what confused me about the whole thing: The High Evolutionary is invoked simply by naming a villain General Wyndham, then we see an actual image of the HE at one point, but in the end, it seems that Wyndham is indeed some Hydra big shot, not related to Dr. Edgar Wyndham. What's the point of even having the HE in the mini at all?

And what are we supposed to think of Bova...so she was never a woman-cow at all, cool.
But why do we see her with a cow-head at some point?
Only to be told that it was really nothing...
I don't get it.

Unless it's a hint of things to come in the Spider-Woman ongoing, whichwould be alright with me...but I expected this mini to answer some questions, not to raise so many questions.

All I know is that as it stands today, Jessica's origin involves the DNA codes of a bunch of spiders grafted onto her DNA through an accident with a DNA compiler's laser beam that hit Jessica's mother while she was pregnant with the girl. And the esperiments that were being done with that DNA compiler were bankrolled by Hydra, cuz they were trying to create an army of spider-women (the Athena project)
So far, I don't have a problem with it.
I don't really care that her old origin was changed,and I actually looked forward to her current origin being simple and easy to follow.
Which it is, but it still left me a lil of a bad aftertaste, what with the continuity problems that I kinda see: Who knows...maybe there are some big plans at Marvel for The High Evoltionary...

Ray G.
04-19-2006, 01:20 PM
Wait?
Joe Kelly?
What happened to Rucka?

Did I miss something?

Rucka quit. :cry:

Well, at least Kelly knows the Superverse like few other writers. He had a lengthy run on Action Comics, while included the legendary Action Comics #775, and he wrote a very underrated run on Superboy. I think he's a good choice for now.

innocentboy
04-19-2006, 04:44 PM
loved this issue of Spider-Woman: Origin.

read it twice already, + flipped through it again tons, and will read it again in the future, both near and far.

this coming from somebody who knew NOTHING about Spider-Woman until she showed up in New Avengers.

was never confused about the wolfman things. always just figured it was kinda metaphorical in a sense.

High Evolutionary, Bova, etc. i don't really know much about anyways, so have them just as glimpses doesn't hurt it at all. didn't even know they were apart of her origin until you guys started talking about it.

great that leaves some things open for future adventures.

happy that Bendis ressurected Spider-Woman.

The Zevad
04-19-2006, 05:07 PM
Well, here it is finally, and I have to admit that I am very disappointed:Jessica finally meets her dad again, and he turns out to be a real bastard after all.

Yep...it wasn't a Hydra memory implant after all...Jonathan Drew has been retconned as a cold, calculating son of a b###h who sees his daughter as his greatest achievement, but in a "My Hydra Experiment Gone Right;My greatest scientific triumph" way, not in a "my dear daughter, I love U and I'm proud of all you've accomplished so far" way.

All Jonathan could ask her daughter after so many years without seeing her was questions that pertained to her status as a scientific breakthrough.
He didn't cry. He didn't say "I'm sorry" or anything.
(I'm surprised that if we are to believe this is her origin, she didn't "become" a lesbian later on...according to this,every man in Jessica's developmental stage turned out to be unloving,two-timing, lying, cheating bastards.)

Anyway,according to this issue, it turns out that all those random images of people with cow heads and werewolves (and the High Evolutionary) that Jessica saw at different points throughout the mini, were Hydra's way of keeping her in check: Seems every time Jessica tried to defy Hydra, her mind "punished" her (the book's explanation, not mine)
Alrighty...
No, I still don't understand it...it was not too clear in terms of how it was presented...

I did like that Bendis and Reed tied her origin to the cool story from Marvel Two In One 29-32, the one in which Hydra was creating an army of spider-women, based on the DNA readings and the experiments that had been made on Jessica, and I loved how Jessica kicked so much ass in her mano a mano with not only a contingent of Hydra agents but a dozen of "spider-Women" who seemed to possess the same powers and abilities as Jessica.

However, another thing that was kinda unclear: Jessica planted some explosives underneath the platform of the oil rig on which she was battling the other Spiderwomen...but when the bombs went off, how in hell did Jessica survive while all the other women presumably did not?
She was clearly still on the platform,and the bomb exploded right after we get a close up of Jessica being overpowered by the sheer number of Spider-Women against her...but after that we sea Jessica drifting at see, conscious but weak, and then we get fast forward to several days later, with Jessica fine and dandy, talking to Nick Fury atop San Francisco's Oakland Bay Bridge...she decides not to work for SHIELD anymore and stay in San Francisco to start a career as a superhero.
Nice shot of Jessica in costume, soaring away from Fury, the end.


I am still scratching my head at the whole thing: Was High Evolutionary retconned out of Jessica's history?
If he was, why did Hydra implant an image of him in Jessica's mind? Why did the villanous man who
brought Jessica into Hydra had the same last name as the High Evolutionary?
Was Bova a cow-woman or not?
Why the werewolves?
Does this mean that all the events that pertained to Jonathan Drew and his relation to Edgar Wyndham and the Evolutionary War are not in continuity anymore?
Why did this mini, who I assumed would finally give a sensical closure to Jessica's convoluted story and streamline her origin, actually confused me more?

God knows I loved the first four issues, totally action packed, full of intrigue, twists and all around kickass developments and suspense.
I am not saying this is badly written, but it's unsatisfying as hell...

I don't mind if the High Evolutionary is retconned out of Jessica's history, what I mind is that the mini didn't make it clear whether he was or not.
Maybe I just didn't understand it.
The first two issues get an A from me, the last issue, a C-, mainly cuz it was unsatisfying and disappointing.

Again, not a slam against the writers , God knows I will always be grateful to Bendis and Reed for this mini and to Bendis in particular for making Jessica popular again, but as far as this last issue, I didn't love it at all.

I would love to hear others' reactions and thoughts...maybe you guys can shed some light on things I might have missed and angles I might have overlooked.

In any case, I am still as excited about the upcoming Spider-Woman ongoing as always.
My anticipation for that book hasn't weakened in the least, and I can't wait till Maleev and Bendis go to town on that sure-to-be-kickass book!

I support this post! :-)

Tom Burgos
04-19-2006, 05:26 PM
great that leaves some things open for future adventures.

happy that Bendis ressurected Spider-Woman.


Me too!!

innocentboy
04-19-2006, 06:07 PM
Me too!!
really?
so THAT explains your Spider-Woman sig and avatar!!!

:D

helenoftroy
04-20-2006, 05:47 AM
Well, here it is finally, and I have to admit that I am very disappointed:Jessica finally meets her dad again, and he turns out to be a real bastard after all.

Yep...it wasn't a Hydra memory implant after all...Jonathan Drew has been retconned as a cold, calculating son of a b###h who sees his daughter as his greatest achievement, but in a "My Hydra Experiment Gone Right;My greatest scientific triumph" way, not in a "my dear daughter, I love U and I'm proud of all you've accomplished so far" way.

All Jonathan could ask her daughter after so many years without seeing her was questions that pertained to her status as a scientific breakthrough.
He didn't cry. He didn't say "I'm sorry" or anything.
(I'm surprised that if we are to believe this is her origin, she didn't "become" a lesbian later on...according to this,every man in Jessica's developmental stage turned out to be unloving,two-timing, lying, cheating bastards.)

I sort of liked that about her father's character. He was very much the villan and didn't see much value in her other than as HIS scientific achievement. I somewhat expected it after reading the very first issue. I think parents make the very best villans.


Anyway,according to this issue, it turns out that all those random images of people with cow heads and werewolves (and the High Evolutionary) that Jessica saw at different points throughout the mini, were Hydra's way of keeping her in check: Seems every time Jessica tried to defy Hydra, her mind "punished" her (the book's explanation, not mine)
Alrighty...
No, I still don't understand it...it was not too clear in terms of how it was presented...

I agree with you there. I was hoping that the man's face changing into a cow head was how Jessica viewed him rather than an actual image she saw.


I did like that Bendis and Reed tied her origin to the cool story from Marvel Two In One 29-32, the one in which Hydra was creating an army of spider-women, based on the DNA readings and the experiments that had been made on Jessica, and I loved how Jessica kicked so much ass in her mano a mano with not only a contingent of Hydra agents but a dozen of "spider-Women" who seemed to possess the same powers and abilities as Jessica.

However, another thing that was kinda unclear: Jessica planted some explosives underneath the platform of the oil rig on which she was battling the other Spiderwomen...but when the bombs went off, how in hell did Jessica survive while all the other women presumably did not?
She was clearly still on the platform,and the bomb exploded right after we get a close up of Jessica being overpowered by the sheer number of Spider-Women against her...but after that we sea Jessica drifting at see, conscious but weak, and then we get fast forward to several days later, with Jessica fine and dandy, talking to Nick Fury atop San Francisco's Oakland Bay Bridge...she decides not to work for SHIELD anymore and stay in San Francisco to start a career as a superhero.
Nice shot of Jessica in costume, soaring away from Fury, the end.


I am still scratching my head at the whole thing: Was High Evolutionary retconned out of Jessica's history?
If he was, why did Hydra implant an image of him in Jessica's mind? Why did the villanous man who
brought Jessica into Hydra had the same last name as the High Evolutionary?
Was Bova a cow-woman or not?
Why the werewolves?
Does this mean that all the events that pertained to Jonathan Drew and his relation to Edgar Wyndham and the Evolutionary War are not in continuity anymore?
Why did this mini, who I assumed would finally give a sensical closure to Jessica's convoluted story and streamline her origin, actually confused me more?

God knows I loved the first four issues, totally action packed, full of intrigue, twists and all around kickass developments and suspense.
I am not saying this is badly written, but it's unsatisfying as hell...

I don't mind if the High Evolutionary is retconned out of Jessica's history, what I mind is that the mini didn't make it clear whether he was or not.
Maybe I just didn't understand it.
The first two issues get an A from me, the last issue, a C-, mainly cuz it was unsatisfying and disappointing.

Again, not a slam against the writers , God knows I will always be grateful to Bendis and Reed for this mini and to Bendis in particular for making Jessica popular again, but as far as this last issue, I didn't love it at all.

I would love to hear others' reactions and thoughts...maybe you guys can shed some light on things I might have missed and angles I might have overlooked.

In any case, I am still as excited about the upcoming Spider-Woman ongoing as always.
My anticipation for that book hasn't weakened in the least, and I can't wait till Maleev and Bendis go to town on that sure-to-be-kickass book!

I liked that army of spider-women also but I didn't know it tied in other places. It was an interesting twist for me. It was a nice fight scene too but I thought this particular comic book, unlike the others in the mini-series, was more reliant on action scenes. I guess that was the best way to tie up the story fairly quickly.

One question I have to ask about the very last page. So, other than the New Avengers, is there going to be another NEW Spider-woman comic book? My husband reads the New Avengers and I've also enjoyed the book but I prefer to read comic book chick titles. I read others but the chick superheroes are a favorite of mine. So, I would very much look forward to reading a Spider-Woman title.

I enjoyed reading your thoughts about the mini-series, Tom.

innocentboy
04-20-2006, 02:32 PM
I sort of liked that about her father's character. He was very much the villan and didn't see much value in her other than as HIS scientific achievement. I somewhat expected it after reading the very first issue. I think parents make the very best villans.



I agree with you there. I was hoping that the man's face changing into a cow head was how Jessica viewed him rather than an actual image she saw.



I liked that army of spider-women also but I didn't know it tied in other places. It was an interesting twist for me. It was a nice fight scene too but I thought this particular comic book, unlike the others in the mini-series, was more reliant on action scenes. I guess that was the best way to tie up the story fairly quickly.

One question I have to ask about the very last page. So, other than the New Avengers, is there going to be another NEW Spider-woman comic book? My husband reads the New Avengers and I've also enjoyed the book but I prefer to read comic book chick titles. I read others but the chick superheroes are a favorite of mine. So, I would very much look forward to reading a Spider-Woman title.

I enjoyed reading your thoughts about the mini-series, Tom.
YEP!

Spider-Woman regular ongoing series by none other than:

*drum roll*

Brian Michael Bendis and Alex Maleev.

helenoftroy
04-20-2006, 02:58 PM
YEP!

Spider-Woman regular ongoing series by none other than:

*drum roll*

Brian Michael Bendis and Alex Maleev.

*Squeals with delight*

Groovy! Thanks! I'll be looking for the new title!

CraigM
04-24-2006, 09:38 AM
I'm just sad that we have to wait till 2007 for the new Spider-Woman series. Is there a reason why for that? I thought they were starting in September.

Craig

Doug
04-24-2006, 09:58 AM
I'm just sad that we have to wait till 2007 for the new Spider-Woman series. Is there a reason why for that? I thought they were starting in September.

Craig

I can't say for sure, but my thinking is that is has to do with Civil War and the books that will be spinning out of that.

I'm not sure when the new book will begin, but if it is right after Civil War then I guess Jessica will have an important role in the war, and her new book will spin out of that.

If it starts a few months after Civil War ends then I guess that Marvel wants to premiere it away from all the Civil War spin-offs so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.

danielsan
04-25-2006, 06:18 PM
I'd like for this entire "Origin" series to end up being a memory implant given to Jessica by Hydra when the gave her her powers back. Why? because Origin completely contradicted the original Spider-Woman series.

Jessica was never hard to track down by SHIELD, she dated one of their agents: Jerry Hunt. Where was he in Origin?

Where was Magnus? He posessed the body of Jonathan Drew for a long time. He was also there for Shadow-Woman's origin. I thought were were going to get her's and Jessica's connection in Origin.

Where was Lindsay and Scotty?

Did anyone read Spider-Woman # 38 when Jessica APPRAOCHED NICK FURY to get him to help her with her PI license. In Origin that never happens, now it is SHIELD finds Spider-Woman in San Fran after she is already an investigator.

Sorry Bendis, but the original Spider-Woman origin was much better IMHO.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make this whole series end up new implants by Hydra and Connelly.

mayhemspider
04-25-2006, 06:30 PM
I'd like for this entire "Origin" series to end up being a memory implant given to Jessica by Hydra when the gave her her powers back. Why? because Origin completely contradicted the original Spider-Woman series.

Jessica was never hard to track down by SHIELD, she dated one of their agents: Jerry Hunt. Where was he in Origin?

Where was Magnus? He posessed the body of Jonathan Drew for a long time. He was also there for Shadow-Woman's origin. I thought were were going to get her's and Jessica's connection in Origin.

Where was Lindsay and Scotty?

Did anyone read Spider-Woman # 38 when Jessica APPRAOCHED NICK FURY to get him to help her with her PI license. In Origin that never happens, now it is SHIELD finds Spider-Woman in San Fran after she is already an investigator.

Sorry Bendis, but the original Spider-Woman origin was much better IMHO.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make this whole series end up new implants by Hydra and Connelly.
i think i'd actually enjoy that alot. which is weird for me.

Guy M. Etchells
04-30-2006, 07:54 AM
Yes I must agree with all Tom said.
Why in Issue 1 does it say...
Spider-woman Origin BOOK ONE could we be seeing a book 2 to sort bok 1 out?

innocentboy
04-30-2006, 04:58 PM
remember reading that Marvel has already approached the Luna Bros with other projects.

hoping that the Bendis/Luna collabo will be seen in the future