Iran to publish Holocaust cartoons

[NATE!]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18066746-1702,00.html?from=rss



Iran to publish Holocaust cartoons
From: Agence France-Presse
From correspondents in Tehran

February 07, 2006


IRAN'S largest selling newspaper announced today it was holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed.
"It will be an international cartoon contest about the Holocaust," said Farid Mortazavi, the graphics editor for Hamshahri newspaper - which is published by Teheran's conservative municipality.

He said the plan was to turn the tables on the assertion that newspapers can print offensive material in the name of freedom of expression.

"The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let's see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons," he said.

Iran's fiercely anti-Israeli regime is supportive of so-called Holocaust revisionist historians, who maintain the systematic slaughter by the Nazis of mainland Europe's Jews as well as other groups during World War II has been either invented or exaggerated.

Iran's hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad prompted international anger when he dismissed the systematic slaughter by the Nazis of mainland Europe's Jews as a "myth" used to justify the creation of Israel.

Advertisement:
Mr Mortazavi said tomorrow's edition of the paper will invite cartoonists to enter the competition, with "private individuals" offering gold coins to the best 12 artists - the same number of cartoons that appeared in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten.

Last week, the Iranian foreign ministry also invited British Prime Minister Tony Blair to Teheran to take part in a planned conference on the Holocaust, even though the idea has been branded by Mr Blair as "shocking, ridiculous, stupid".

Mr Blair also said Mr Ahmadinejad "should come and see the evidence of the Holocaust himself in the countries of Europe", to which Iran responded by saying it was willing to send a team of "independent investigators".

[Michael John Wheeler]

Seriously, who knew Wertham was right? :roll:

[Criden]

Jesus fuck. So stupid.

[NATE!]

I'm beginning to think that all this Holocaust denial talk from Iran is a smokescreen to rile people up and take their eyes off the ball, which is Iran's nuclear development.

[TheKraken]

Wouldn't it be more appropriate revenge to get cartoons depicting the christian god in a bad way?

[LenNWallace]

Wouldn't it be more appropriate revenge to get cartoons depicting the christian god in a bad way?
Molesting his own son, perhaps?

[Jastermereel]

Wouldn't it be more appropriate revenge to get cartoons depicting the christian god in a bad way?
Or at least have Jesus as one of the pedophile priests.

[stevapalooza]

You mean ON TOP of their usual anti-semitic cartoons? This is like Louie Anderson announcing he's going to start eatring an extra meal a day.

[NATE!]

You mean ON TOP of their usual anti-semitic cartoons? This is like Louie Anderson announcing he's going to start eatring an extra meal a day.

I guess they wanted to advertise what was already there. You know, so the rest of the world would stop ignoring their media.

[Boris the Blade]

Not really sure what Denmark has to do with the holocaust. "What? Denmark offends us?! WE SHALL GET BACK AT THOSE JEW BASTARDS."

[Oeming]

SO, the Dutch makes fun of Islam so they react by making fun of the Jews genicide... thats rational...

[Oeming]

Not really sure what Denmark has to do with the holocaust. "What? Denmark offends us?! WE SHALL GET BACK AT THOSE JEW BASTARDS."


thats what I meant to say:) Misplaced racism is funny.

[Ryan F]

I'm beginning to think that all this Holocaust denial talk from Iran is a smokescreen to rile people up and take their eyes off the ball, which is Iran's nuclear development.

I don't think so. It's really just focusing more attention on them. Anyone who thought that it might be better to let Iran get the bomb than to start another conflict in the Middle East would probably change their mind hearing this shit.

Also, Iran has a history with Nazism. Iran is Persian for Aryan.

[KAK]

Maybe they can work in the Africans and Asians somehow, so we can get the whole globe involved, it'll be great!

[Boris the Blade]

thats what I meant to say:) Misplaced racism is funny.
I'm not often one to pick on the middle east, but man, this whole thing just reeks of opportunism. Like people are exploiting the offense against their religion to strike out against things they'd normally have no excuse to.

Not that this is any excuse.

[Jim.]

These comics are going to be hy-hy-hysterical!

[Persevering Guy]

<--

[stevapalooza]

Also, Iran has a history with Nazism. Iran is Persian for Aryan.

Yeah but in their defense the real historical Aryans were a lot closer to being Persian than being German. The real Aryans had nothing to do with Germany. It was just another one of Hitler's crackpot historical fairy tales.

[Bill!]

Is this retarded? Yes.
Is it hurting anyone? No.

Let's all just remember the reactions of the past few days and think about things before we say them.

[Smokinblues]

Is this retarded? Yes.
Is it hurting anyone? No.

Let's all just remember the reactions of the past few days and think about things before we say them.

yes dad. sheesh.

[Angel of Distraction]

The Hell? The two have nothing to do with each other! They're just pissed off because the horrible INFIDELS of the dreaded lands of SIN and DESPAIR and hamburgers DARED to draw funny pictures of THEIR INNEFABLE AND INARGUABLE BELEIFS!

[Ray G.]

This is why I fucking hate humanity. But hey, at least Ahmenijad is slowly weaving the rope we'll hang him with. Worthless piece of shit.

[The Cheap-Arse Film Critic]

The world is turning into an internet message board.

[bachman]

Is it hurting anyone? No.


Except for when there are more riots, and people get hurt.

And while it may not be hurting "people" (yet) it's a pretty serious blow to common sense.

[bachman]

Is it hurting anyone? No.
.

Update.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060207/ts_nm/religion_cartoons_dc_41;_ylt=ArEbJ4Jn_Lq7jz_zcwy_e rLbEfQA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

"Four die in fresh cartoon protests"

[Jastermereel]

Update.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060207/ts_nm/religion_cartoons_dc_41;_ylt=ArEbJ4Jn_Lq7jz_zcwy_e rLbEfQA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

"Four die in fresh cartoon protests"
Unless I missread Bill's post, the "is it hurting anyone" was about the topic of this thread: the Holocaust cartoons.

Unless I missread this quote from that article you posted:
Afghan police shot dead four people protesting on Tuesday against cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad that have unleashed waves of rage and soul-searching across the Muslim world and Europe.That has to do with the Mohammad cartoons.

While both the upcoming Holocaust cartoons and the riots you linked to are both reactions to the Mohammad cartoons, the Holocaust cartoons haven't triggered riots.

[gwyllgi]

Uhm. Jesus gets satirized all the time. You know, Buddy Christ.

Why the fuck are muslims killing people over a fucking cartoon? Does anyone in the Middle East have a SHRED of common sense? Someone posts a fucking cartoon about Muhammad so they decided to get even more hateful and make HOLOCAUST cartoons? They weren't cartoons about dead muslims being burned or about the torture of Abu Garib, were they?

So why are they making a cartoon about the Holocaust? What does that have to do with Denmark?

The world really IS turning into an internet message board.

[mike black]

Uhm. Jesus gets satirized all the time. You know, Buddy Christ.

Why the fuck are muslims killing people over a fucking cartoon? Does anyone in the Middle East have a SHRED of common sense? Someone posts a fucking cartoon about Muhammad so they decided to get even more hateful and make HOLOCAUST cartoons? They weren't cartoons about dead muslims being burned or about the torture of Abu Garib, were they?

So why are they making a cartoon about the Holocaust? What does that have to do with Denmark?

The world really IS turning into an internet message board.

Well in defense of the Muslim world, Elle, it is blasphemous to depict Mohammad. It western terms, it'd be like pissing on the cross. That's why if you watch The Messenger (I think that was the name of the movie,) Mohommad is never actually shown. It's just shot from his perspective when he's being addressed. I suppose you could look at it like idoltry taken to the extreme.

What does it have to do with Denmark? The original cartoonist was a Dane. As far as the Holocaust? The leader of Iran is fucking insane.

[Miguel]

See, they're not trying to create the equivalent. They are just trying to offend, and they know that attacking the godless populace that is their main target isn't going to really faze anyone.

Miguel

[mario]

you know what the best way to protest this is?
To ignore it

[gwyllgi]

Well in defense of the Muslim world, Elle, it is blasphemous to depict Mohammad. It western terms, it'd be like pissing on the cross. That's why if you watch The Messenger (I think that was the name of the movie,) Mohommad is never actually shown. It's just shot from his perspective when he's being addressed. I suppose you could look at it like idoltry taken to the extreme.

What does it have to do with Denmark? The original cartoonist was a Dane. As far as the Holocaust? The leader of Iran is fucking insane.


No, I mean... what does the holocaust have to do with Denmark? WAs the person who did the cartoons Jewish? I know the leader's insane.

And it may be bad for THEM to depict Mohammad... but the people who did it weren't Muslim. It's not a sin to them. If they don't fucking like it they shouldn't read it. People make comics and cartoons about God all the time and I still have yet to see Pat Robinson, nut that he is, kill someone for Gary Larson's depiction of God or Jesus.

Sometimes I really, really just don't understand organized religion and what it does to people. It's sickening. No one has any common sense at ALL.

[mike black]

No, I mean... what does the holocaust have to do with Denmark? WAs the person who did the cartoons Jewish? I know the leader's insane.

And it may be bad for THEM to depict Mohammad... but the people who did it weren't Muslim. It's not a sin to them. If they don't fucking like it they shouldn't read it. People make comics and cartoons about God all the time and I still have yet to see Pat Robinson, nut that he is, kill someone for Gary Larson's depiction of God or Jesus.

Sometimes I really, really just don't understand organized religion and what it does to people. It's sickening. No one has any common sense at ALL.

Just because it's not blasphemous for you doesn't mean it doesn't hurt them. It's the same as pissing on the cross. You see two sticks of wood. You pee. No big deal, right? Well you've just pissed on the focal point of worship for a sizable portion of the population of the world.

It's not a matter of sin, it's breaking taboo.

The holocaust just comes up because, in Ammenijad's (sic) eyes Europe is a jewish region. He blames Europe for the Holocaust and for Isreal (Isreal's roots began as early as the 1890's,) and is using it as a chance to drum up further anti-Isreali sentiment among Iran's citizens. He's just pulling a "Hitler" and focusing the dissatisfaction of his people on an outside force. What's it going to do? Well, there's always something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_Broken_Glass). But since the region is already a warzone, and people are already killing eachother because of stupid prejudices, it's really just another notch in the belt.

All it's really doing is further alienating Iran from the non-Muslim world.

[gwyllgi]

Just because it's not blasphemous for you doesn't mean it doesn't hurt them. It's the same as pissing on the cross. You see two sticks of wood. You pee. No big deal, right? Well you've just pissed on the focal point of worship for a sizable portion of the population of the world.

It's not a matter of sin, it's breaking taboo.

The holocaust just comes up because, in Ammenijad's (sic) eyes Europe is a jewish region. He blames Europe for the Holocaust and for Isreal (Isreal's roots began as early as the 1890's,) and is using it as a chance to drum up further anti-Isreali sentiment among Iran's citizens. He's just pulling a "Hitler" and focusing the dissatisfaction of his people on an outside force. What's it going to do? Well, there's always something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_Broken_Glass). But since the region is already a warzone, and people are already killing eachother because of stupid prejudices, it's really just another notch in the belt.

All it's really doing is further alienating Iran from the non-Muslim world.

but i would not tell someone not to do that, if it weren't a symbol of their religion. i would ask, if it were my religion, please don't do that in front of me, thanks very much, but would i start a war or hurt someone over it? no.

it's all ideas and symbols.

that's all. it is not worth the loss of human life.

[Ben]

Seems pretty disrespectful, but whatever. It's Iran.

[mike black]

but i would not tell someone not to do that, if it weren't a symbol of their religion. i would ask, if it were my religion, please don't do that in front of me, thanks very much, but would i start a war or hurt someone over it? no.

it's all ideas and symbols.

that's all. it is not worth the loss of human life.

That's you. We're talking about people. I'm not excusing it - I'm giving you the mindframe of the individuals involved. When you've been raised to think that there is no infallibility involved in the ideals you hold - you tend to get kind of pissy when people shit on them.

Look at it like the political debates we've had on this board. People who trust that what the government does is right for us vs. people who treat it with a healthy sense of skepticism.

We're raised in an enviroment where we're taught that Democracy is the greatest course for human existance. Some of us go on and realize that there are cracks, others don't. Well, what happens when we're coddled, and never realize those cracks? If there is only that single course of democracy - and it will never fail? Your not picking up on it because you've been allowed to question, you choose not to take anything at face value. But if you've built your entire life on this ideal, and you've never had anything else to believe in. You'd put your very being into it. So when someone came along and desicrated that idea (which a symbol is representative of,) you would have no choice to fervently act against that person.

What's happening with these drawings is that (according to Muslim dogma,) they are denegrating the divinity of Mohommad. When he is depicted as a person he is no longer god-like, and there fore that ideal holds a little less meaning.

[gwyllgi]

That's you. We're talking about people. I'm not excusing it - I'm giving you the mindframe of the individuals involved. When you've been raised to think that there is no infallibility involved in the ideals you hold - you tend to get kind of pissy when people shit on them.

Look at it like the political debates we've had on this board. People who trust that what the government does is right for us vs. people who treat it with a healthy sense of skepticism.

We're raised in an enviroment where we're taught that Democracy is the greatest course for human existance. Some of us go on and realize that there are cracks, others don't. Well, what happens when we're coddled, and never realize those cracks? If there is only that single course of democracy - and it will never fail? Your not picking up on it because you've been allowed to question, you choose not to take anything at face value. But if you've built your entire life on this ideal, and you've never had anything else to believe in. You'd put your very being into it. So when someone came along and desicrated that idea (which a symbol is representative of,) you would have no choice to fervently act against that person.

What's happening with these drawings is that (according to Muslim dogma,) they are denegrating the divinity of Mohommad. When he is depicted as a person he is no longer god-like, and there fore that ideal holds a little less meaning.


No. You assume I don't know the mindset these people have. I certainly do. Knowing it and understanding it are two very different things. I know how they are raised. I know that a lot of people blindly follow the ideals taught to them, and never question a thing.

The thing is, I do not understand for the life of me why someone would be able to go through life that way, never trying to find more, never questioning. I do not understand how someone could love a symbol so much more than life, and the life of another. I do not understand how anyone could believe that ANYTHING in this world is infalliable.

I know people believe it. That does not mean that I understand it. I don't. I probably never will.

I do, however, look down upon it. Perhaps it's bad of me, and perhaps people will respect me less. But those that follow so blindly, no matter what they're following, disgust me. They frustrate me. And i do not trust anyone that feels that way about anything. Extremists view the world through blinders and that sort of imbalance makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

I followed god blindly once.

And then I took a step back, of my own volition, and saw how very, very wrong I was, and how intolerant.

[stevapalooza]

And it may be bad for THEM to depict Mohammad... but the people who did it weren't Muslim. It's not a sin to them. If they don't fucking like it they shouldn't read it. People make comics and cartoons about God all the time and I still have yet to see Pat Robinson, nut that he is, kill someone for Gary Larson's depiction of God or Jesus.



That's why it's important for the Danes and the west not to pussy out and allow itself to be intimidated by fanatics. "Sensitivity" is an easy out. Most of the "senstivity" toward Islam we see in the west is nothing but fear. We don't respect Islam, we fear it. No one wants to deal with apeshit Muslims blowing stuff up so we bend over backwards to accomodate their fanaticism. But how far should that accomodation go? Western culture is one built on opposition to fanaticism, and here we are pandering to it in our own countries?! Bullshit. Enough is enough. We have beliefs and traditions too. Secular, rational ones. And they deserve respect as much as any crackpot religious commandment.

[gwyllgi]

That's why it's important for the Danes and the west not to pussy out and allow itself to be intimidated by fanatics. "Sensitivity" is an easy out. Most of the "senstivity" toward Islam we see in the west is nothing but fear. We don't respect Islam, we fear it. No one wants to deal with apeshit Muslims blowing stuff up so we bend over backwards to accomodate their fanaticism. But how far should that accomodation go? Western culture is one built on opposition to fanaticism, and here we are pandering to it in our own countries?! Bullshit. Enough is enough. We have beliefs and traditions too. Secular, rational ones. And they deserve respect as much as any crackpot religious commandment.

Thank you. I agree with this.

I respect folks religious beliefs but I'm not living my goddamn life tip toeing around them and I do not expect others to do the same for me.

Period.

Laws should be secular.

[Ben]

I respect folks religious beliefs but I'm not living my goddamn life tip toeing around them and I do not expect others to do the same for me.
It must be rough going through life NOT drawing cartoons of Muhammad.

[gwyllgi]

It must be rough going through life NOT drawing cartoons of Muhammad.

Wow, Ben, did I say I was going to draw a cartoon of Muhammad? No, I didn't.
But do I think they were in the wrong for doing it? No.

[Jamie Howdeshell]

Seems pretty disrespectful, but whatever. It's Iran.

:lol:

[Ben]

Wow, Ben, did I say I was going to draw a cartoon of Muhammad? No, I didn't.
But do I think they were in the wrong for doing it? No.
Ok, I'm not being snippy.

Where does respect come into play? If you KNOW something you do is going to offend people and it's not something you need to do, should you do it? Should you do it just because you can? Because it's not wrong for YOU do to it? I suppose if you're an editorial cartoonist, the choices are a bit different.

I guess I kind of agree with you to an extent. I had a friend in college that was one of those "I won't write out god. I'll write g-d instead." and I would frequently use the word "god" in emails to him just to bug him.

[Thudpucker]

The world is turning into an internet message board.

indeed.

[stevapalooza]

Ok, I'm not being snippy.

Where does respect come into play? If you KNOW something you do is going to offend people and it's not something you need to do, should you do it?

Yeah. if you're doing it to make a point. I think people have written the cartoonists off as attention whores who wanted to start shit, but I think they were making a very valid statement. Why is Muhammad seen as a terrorist? The cartoonists didn't just pull the idea out of their ass. They're commenting on a very real situation. Muslim extremism is a very pressing issue all over the world right now. Are we supposed to just ignore it because discussing it might offend people? That's ridiculous.

[Jastermereel]

Yeah. if you're doing it to make a point. I think people have written the cartoonists off as attention whores who wanted to start shit, but I think they were making a very valid statement. Why is Muhammad seen as a terrorist? The cartoonists didn't just pull the idea out of their ass. They're commenting on a very real situation. Muslim extremism is a very pressing issue all over the world right now. Are we supposed to just ignore it because discussing it might offend people? That's ridiculous.
Some of them were making note of that situation. Others just went out of their way to be offensive or stupid. In a different conflict it would be the distinction between calling someone an "Uncle Tom" and saying "You're sucking the white man's dick!". The former makes a specific point and shows that the speaker might have put some thought and education into it. The latter is just someone shooting their mouth off.

[RedStarZero]

That is one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard.

There is no comparison between making fun of a person, and making fun of a world tragedy.

People make fun of religious icons all the time. This is crossing the line.