China map lays claim to Americas

[RODGER]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4609074.stm

A map due to be unveiled in Beijing and London next week may lend weight to a theory a Chinese admiral discovered America before Christopher Columbus.
The map, which shows North and South America, apparently states that it is a 1763 copy of another map made in 1418.

If true, it could imply Chinese mariners discovered and mapped America decades before Columbus' 1492 arrival.

The map, which is being dated to check it was made in 1763, faces a lot of scepticism from experts.

Chinese characters written beside the map say it was drawn by Mo Yi Tong and copied from a map made in the 16th year of the Emperor Yongle, or 1418.

It clearly shows Africa and Australia.

The British Isles, however, are not marked.

Controversial claim

The map was bought for about $500 from a Shanghai dealer in 2001 by a Chinese lawyer and collector, Liu Gang.

According to the Economist magazine, Mr Liu only became aware of the map's potential significance after he read a book by British author Gavin Menzies.

The book, 1421: The Year China discovered the World, made the controversial claim that a Chinese admiral and eunuch, Zheng He, sailed around the world and discovered America on the way.

Zheng He, a Muslim mariner and explorer, is widely thought to have sailed around South East Asia and India, but the claim he visited America is hotly disputed.

The map is now being tested to check the age of its paper and ink, with the results due to be known in February.

Even if it does prove to have been drawn in 1763, sceptics will point out that we still only have the mapmaker's word that he copied if from a 1418 map, rather than from a more recent one.

[Ray G.]

This will not end well. I smell a lawsuit over America, and I am NOT learning Chinese.

[RODGER]

This will not end well. I smell a lawsuit over America, and I am NOT learning Chinese.

well, i do like the food and i love the Asian women...
:grope:

[Thomas Mauer]

Pfft, Vineland was discovered way before the Chinese came to California or Columbus found "India."

[AAlgar]

Lief Eriksson still has them beaten. :crazy:

[Vonn Hennigar]

Uhhh you guys realize The Vikings "Discovered" North America Long Before Columbus or any Chinese Expedition right?

[Thomas Mauer]

Lief Eriksson still has them beaten. :crazy:
Yup.

Raise your wineskins and skulls to give 'im a toast.

Skol!

[Thomas Mauer]

Uhhh you guys realize The Vikings "Discovered" North America Long Before Columbus or any Chinese Expedition right?
Read mine and Aalgar's posts before yours. ;)

[AAlgar]

I didn't expect a kind of Chinese inquisition.

[mike black]

Uhhh you guys realize The Vikings "Discovered" North America Long Before Columbus or any Chinese Expedition right?

Uh, you do realize that Asians traversed the Russian steppes, crossed the Russian-Alaskan ice bridge, and fully colonized America long before that, right? We call them "Native Americans" now.

[bartleby]

Lief Eriksson still has them beaten. :crazy:


And the aliens were here thousands of years before that...

[justjeffery]

We all know where this is gonna lead.... war between China and America in which China wins and huge corporations take over the entire globe... everyone will speak Chinease and eventually there will be another huge war in which seperatists will try to win their independance. These browncoats will fight valiantly, but will eventually loose. The Battle of Serinity will be brutal and few browncoats will survive....

[Natty P]

Uh, you do realize that Asians traversed the Russian steppes, crossed the Russian-Alaskan ice bridge, and fully colonized America long before that, right? We call them "Native Americans" now.


How does that have any bearing on this news story?


We all took social studies in eighth grade thanks very much.

[mike black]

How does that have any bearing on this news story?


We all took social studies in eighth grade thanks very much.

Did you read what I quoted from? The mass of "Leif Erikksen discovered it first!" Well, actually, Asians did it before that.

[mike black]

We all know where this is gonna lead.... war between China and America in which China wins and huge corporations take over the entire globe... everyone will speak Chinease and eventually there will be another huge war in which seperatists will try to win their independance. These browncoats will fight valiantly, but will eventually loose. The Battle of Serinity will be brutal and few browncoats will survive....

There was no war, Earth just got used up. Everyone left, but America and China were the largest populations in the exodus. And it's "The Battle of Serenity Valley". ;)

[Natty P]

Did you read what I quoted from? The mass of "Leif Erikksen discovered it first!" Well, actually, Asians did it before that.


I think he was joking.


And besides you are talking about something that happened in prehistory rather than something that happened after man had been settled into his various regions.
But what's the point of arguing? If this claim is true it's pretty interesting.

[mario]

I didn't expect a kind of Chinese inquisition.

nobody's expect a kind of Chinese inquisition.

[Vonn Hennigar]

Uh, you do realize that Asians traversed the Russian steppes, crossed the Russian-Alaskan ice bridge, and fully colonized America long before that, right? We call them "Native Americans" now.

Yeah, hence my Vikings " Discovered " in Quotation Marks.

[Amos Moses]

I wonder if thats the same Zhang He from Dynasty Warriors.

[Ben]

Too bad it doesn't matter. China and the Vikings (and even the ancestors of the American Indians) discovering the American continents had absolutely zero effect on world history. Columbus' discovery changed everything.

[mlpeters]

Too bad it doesn't matter. China and the Vikings (and even the ancestors of the American Indians) discovering the American continents had absolutely zero effect on world history. Columbus' discovery changed everything.
Yeah, prehistoric peoples from Asia (though calling them Asians is a bit like saying we're all Africans, since that's where humans first appeared) the Welsh(no one mentioned them?), vikings, and the Chinese might have been here earlier, but it was Columbus's "discovery" that set in motion the whole colonization, enslavement and genocide of natives -- give credit where it's due.

[Bill?]

dude, Columbus didnt even discover America.
He discovered the Bahamas.
which, if you think about it, is probably a better discovery.

[mlpeters]

dude, Columbus didnt even discover America.
He discovered the Bahamas.
which, if you think about it, is probably a better discovery.
True, and the vikings discovered Canada... though some say they later travelled inland a ways, maybe even as far as Wisconsin.

[stevapalooza]

Actually the Polynesians discovered everything before anyone. Those fuckers have been everywhere, and thet did it on rafts made of friggin coconut shells!

And Zheng He was a eunuch. So he couldn't have sailed to America because--that's right--he didn't have the balls! USA!!

[Ben]

Actually the Polynesians discovered everything before anyone. Those fuckers have been everywhere, and thet did it on rafts made of friggin coconut shells!

And Zheng He was a eunuch. So he couldn't have sailed to America because--that's right--he didn't have the balls! USA!!
The Atlantians went to the moon first. That's why they had to be destroyed.

[stevapalooza]

There's also increasing evidence and belief that when the Siberians crossed the land bridge into North America there were already people here. Skulls have been found that are very old and don't match any of the known native American types.

[Ben]

There's also increasing evidence and belief that when the Siberians crossed the land bridge into North America there were already people here. Skulls have been found that are very old and don't match any of the known native American types.
So what are the dominant hypotheses these days? They either island-hopped or were transported by aliens.

[andrew french]

Lief Eriksson still has them beaten. :crazy:

yeap. i wish had had stayed so that maybe we'd be a viking culture today.

[mlpeters]

There's also increasing evidence and belief that when the Siberians crossed the land bridge into North America there were already people here. Skulls have been found that are very old and don't match any of the known native American types.
I forgot about that -- I remember hearing one very old skull more closely resembled caucasian/european skulls. Some anthropologist reconstructed the face with clay around a cast of the skull and commented it looked a lot like Patrick Stewart (a.k.a. Captain Picard, Professor X), with the slightly pointy dome (though I don't think a skull that old can show eveidence of baldness) and prominant nose. I haven't seen pictures of this, unfortunately -- I heard the story on NPR.

So it's clear the Enterprise traveled back in time and buried the captain in what's now Missouri.

[mike black]

So it's clear the Enterprise traveled back in time and buried the captain in what's now Missouri.

http://step.polymtl.ca/~helly/JL1.jpg

Make it so.

[Thomas Mauer]

yeap. i wish had had stayed so that maybe we'd be a viking culture today.
A viking or a norse culture? Viking is just a term for norse raider. Not all norsemen were vikings, but all vikings were norsemen, you know.

[stevapalooza]

Russia was founded by Vikings, and they don't really have a very "Viking" culture. I'm not sure it would've made a huge difference.