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The-Last-Man
11-30-2005, 02:32 AM
I am thinking of picking up the trades on this series, was it any good? I picked up #1 and liked it, but not enough to keep buying it. Did it improve?

AAlgar
11-30-2005, 02:33 AM
I think if you didn't like the first one, you probably won't care for the series.

Personally, I think it's the best mini to come out of the big two in a long, long time. But, to each their own, I suppose.

Mike Haseloff
11-30-2005, 02:52 AM
I'd be inclined to say it did get a bit better, but like AAlgar said... if you really didn't like it, it might be a miss.

I really liked the Martian Manhunter stuff, and Captain Cold and Flash... oh, and Batman.

Yeah, I think it got better.

The-Last-Man
11-30-2005, 02:53 AM
I think i'll pick up the first trade, and if i like it, i'll get the second.

Thanks for the input guys...

Mike Haseloff
11-30-2005, 02:55 AM
I think i'll pick up the first trade, and if i like it, i'll get the second.

Thanks for the input guys...Yeah, that's a good idea.

If you liked it in general, you might agree with me, that it picks up.
If you just weren't feeling it, it might be a miss.



Can you tell I'm really not sure? :p

Olivier E.
11-30-2005, 02:55 AM
I loved it, but then I also loved the first issue...

AAlgar
11-30-2005, 02:56 AM
Yeah, that's a good idea.

If you liked it in general, you might agree with me, that it picks up.
If you just weren't feeling it, it might be a miss.



Can you tell I'm really not sure? :p

I find it hard to offer objective opinions that are of any use to someone when I'm so passionate about a book. This is one of the few things I would actually buy in hardcover (so naturally, there wasn't one :x).

Mike Haseloff
11-30-2005, 03:01 AM
I find it hard to offer objective opinions that are of any use to someone when I'm so passionate about a book. This is one of the few things I would actually buy in hardcover (so naturally, there wasn't one :x).Oh yeah, mister fancy pants? There are TWO hardcovers! YEAH!




... I was only able to get a couple of issues, so I'm probably going to look into the trades. Even with those gaps, I'd have to agree. It was easily the best mini of the year, if not a much larger timespan.

It was definitely hot shit.
I can see why you have trouble being impartial.

AAlgar
11-30-2005, 03:05 AM
Oh yeah, mister fancy pants? There are TWO hardcovers! YEAH!




... I was only able to get a couple of issues, so I'm probably going to look into the trades. Even with those gaps, I'd have to agree. It was easily the best mini of the year, if not a much larger timespan.

It was definitely hot shit.
I can see why you have trouble being impartial.

My shop got the TPBs and he told me there were no hardcovers. I don't have any money now, or I'd go looking for them.

I should mention that this series was perhaps the first time I ever cared about and liked Wonder Woman.

Mike Haseloff
11-30-2005, 03:07 AM
My shop got the TPBs and he told me there were no hardcovers. I don't have any money now, or I'd go looking for them.I'd be reluctant to go the two hardcovers, when it's the kind of thing that will SURELY end up being put into one volume.


I should mention that this series was perhaps the first time I ever cared about and liked Wonder Woman.Definitely one of the better Wonder Woman's.

I liked her exchange with Superman, after she liberates all the female prisoners. Gooooooo Amazons!

Ryan_ZOOM_Turner
11-30-2005, 03:14 AM
The action figures that were in Previews are pretty nice also.

SteveZegers
11-30-2005, 03:37 AM
I think it's just about the best thing ever.

joeAR
11-30-2005, 04:53 AM
It was fantastic. Why there's not a giant hardcover version of this baby out there i'll never know.

Bill Nolan
11-30-2005, 05:40 AM
I would buy an Absolute New Frontier just for the artwork. It's beautiful.

That said, the story isn't so great. The first issue is definitely the best, but when the story veers toward, basically, the Satanic, it loses me. And I understand the ham-handed message of having a little blonde girl scream the "N-word," but it still was a bit much. Not something I would recommend for children, definitely, despite being portrayed as a "tribute" to the Silver Age of DC Comics. Similar to most of the comics written by Geoff Johns, it's more of a deconstruction and distortion of the Silver Age as seen by a pessimistic person who thinks destroying icons is the same as saluting them. A touch too anti-American for my taste.

But, like I said, the art is gorgeous...

- Bill

Yannick_B
11-30-2005, 05:43 AM
Really? I got exactly the opposite reaction out of it. He didnt destroy icons, I thought he showed "this is why those guys are icons" but not without forgetting the historical context.

Michael John Wheeler
11-30-2005, 05:47 AM
I didn't really like the first trade. It just seemed so stiff.

modungo
11-30-2005, 05:49 AM
It's fucking great. My favorite thing in a while. It could have been the Watchmen for a new generation but since there isn't a new generation, it's still the same old generation all hung up on Watchmen, that didn't happen.

Joshzilla
11-30-2005, 06:00 AM
I think this series/story was pretty great. The art was uber-great. I particulary loved the Superman/Wonder Woman clash.

Jono
11-30-2005, 06:01 AM
I would buy an Absolute New Frontier just for the artwork. It's beautiful.

That said, the story isn't so great. The first issue is definitely the best, but when the story veers toward, basically, the Satanic, it loses me. And I understand the ham-handed message of having a little blonde girl scream the "N-word," but it still was a bit much. Not something I would recommend for children, definitely, despite being portrayed as a "tribute" to the Silver Age of DC Comics. Similar to most of the comics written by Geoff Jones, it's more of a deconstruction and distortion of the Silver Age as seen by a pessimistic person who thinks destroying icons is the same as saluting them. A touch too anti-American for my taste.

But, like I said, the art is gorgeous...

- Bill

How you got satanism, silver age deconstruction, anti-american, and pessimistic from New Frontier boggles my mind. It's a wall to wall love letter to DC's silver age, and then the last issue is set to a famous JFK speech, and I found it moving as all hell. easily the best mini from the big 2 in years and years.

I'm curious, which icons were "destroyed" in your opinion?

and it's Geoff Johns, by the way, and he had nothing to do with New Frontier...

Bill Nolan
11-30-2005, 06:25 AM
How you got satanism, silver age deconstruction, anti-american, and pessimistic from New Frontier boggles my mind. It's a wall to wall love letter to DC's silver age, and then the last issue is set to a famous JFK speech, and I found it moving as all hell. easily the best mini from the big 2 in years and years.

I'm curious, which icons were "destroyed" in your opinion?

and it's Geoff Johns, by the way, and he had nothing to do with New Frontier...

I fixed the Johns typo, thanks for pointing it out. I know he had nothing to do with New Frontier, just that he also claims to be sending so-called "love letters" to the Silver Age, but at the same time takes a perverse glee in tearing characters down. That didn't happen in the Silver Age. The DC Universe is currently being bent over a chair and Didio'ed.

The anti-American-ism was more of an anti-1950s mentality. Cooke seems wrapped up in the laughable negative portrayal of that decade he must have learned from his former-hippie college professors. I know it wasn't like Happy Days, but come on, to portray the 1960s as a glorious era compared to the 1950s is just intellectually dishonest. It was laughably ham-handed.

The satanic angle came from the confusing mish-mash last issue where all the heroes fought an evil something which was never quite explained well. That happens a lot when comic companies let artists write their own stuff. Cooke handles the art chores magnificently, but the story is just pants. DC should have learned its lesson with Cooke's Catwoman OGN. Nice to look at, weak execution.

- Bill

Artie Pink
11-30-2005, 06:32 AM
I thought it was a lot of fun - and beeee-YOOOO-ti-ful art.

The fact that this isn't in a hardcover - let alone an oversized HC - is proof that DC's reprint department is run by monkeys.

SteveZegers
11-30-2005, 06:51 AM
I also can't wait for these:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/SteveZ/Newuntitled1.jpg

Jono
11-30-2005, 07:54 AM
I fixed the Johns typo, thanks for pointing it out. I know he had nothing to do with New Frontier, just that he also claims to be sending so-called "love letters" to the Silver Age, but at the same time takes a perverse glee in tearing characters down. That didn't happen in the Silver Age. The DC Universe is currently being bent over a chair and Didio'ed.

The anti-American-ism was more of an anti-1950s mentality. Cooke seems wrapped up in the laughable negative portrayal of that decade he must have learned from his former-hippie college professors. I know it wasn't like Happy Days, but come on, to portray the 1960s as a glorious era compared to the 1950s is just intellectually dishonest. It was laughably ham-handed.

The satanic angle came from the confusing mish-mash last issue where all the heroes fought an evil something which was never quite explained well. That happens a lot when comic companies let artists write their own stuff. Cooke handles the art chores magnificently, but the story is just pants. DC should have learned its lesson with Cooke's Catwoman OGN. Nice to look at, weak execution.

- Bill

I think you kind of missed the point. The ending was about the promise the 60's held for those with powers to be real heroes, as opposed to the repression and Mccarthyism that, in the book anyway, made it difficult to do so in the 50's.
And I may be wildly missing your point, but do you think portraying the Mccarthyism/government repression of the 50's as a bad thing is somehow unamerican or inaccurate?

joeAR
11-30-2005, 07:58 AM
I also can't wait for these:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/SteveZ/Newuntitled1.jpg


I want the Green Arrow and Green Lantern figures

Doc Randy
11-30-2005, 08:35 AM
The anti-American-ism was more of an anti-1950s mentality. Cooke seems wrapped up in the laughable negative portrayal of that decade he must have learned from his former-hippie college professors. I know it wasn't like Happy Days, but come on, to portray the 1960s as a glorious era compared to the 1950s is just intellectually dishonest. It was laughably ham-handed.

Cooke never "portrayed the 1960s as a glorious era compared to the 1950s". The majority of the book takes place in the 40's and 50's.

Cooke shows the time period in both a possitive and negative light. No time is exclusively good or bad and Cooke wisely demonstrated that America, with all of its promise, still hadn't fully addressed the issues of race, segregation, and lynchings yet. My family is from southern Mississippi. You would be absolutely horrified by the stories I could tell you.




The satanic angle came from the confusing mish-mash last issue where all the heroes fought an evil something which was never quite explained well.
- Bill

You mean just like all those old silver age books? Have you actually read much of the silver age? They were constantly fighting vaguely defined forces of evil. It was almost always a "confusing mish-mash" that "was never quite explained well."




NEW FRONTIER was easily my favorite super hero comic of las year. I'd recommend it to anybody.

Mike Haseloff
11-30-2005, 03:44 PM
Wow, I didn't know bnolan was batshit insane! :o

MattJohnson
11-30-2005, 04:24 PM
Wow, I didn't know bnolan was batshit insane! :o

:lol: Me neither!

Though I did enjoy this series very much, I had some big problems with it. Mainly, how good the build-up and characterization was, only to result in

"holy shit, we have to get everyone we can to attack this threat of heretofore-unheard-of-menace"

I hate when that happens. I wish it did not end in an "epic" action scene, especially since prior to that it was mostly character-interaction, with action "vignettes". But alas, the good definitely outweighs the not-so-good.

BronxRonin
11-30-2005, 04:32 PM
The action figures that were in Previews are pretty nice also.
i was going to mention how kool the action figures looked.
http://www.toymania.com/news/messages/1105_dcd_nf.shtml (http://www.toymania.com/news/messages/1105_dcd_nf.shtml)

Generic Poster
11-30-2005, 04:47 PM
I think if you didn't like the first one, you probably won't care for the series.

Personally, I think it's the best mini to come out of the big two in a long, long time. But, to each their own, I suppose.

I endorse this statement. I think it was phenomenal, though.

Generic Poster
11-30-2005, 04:49 PM
What characters were "torn down?" The repression of the 50s was portrayed negatively, but I don't see a single hero in there that was portrayed as anything less than heroic.

Mr. E!
11-30-2005, 04:52 PM
I loved this. From start to finish, just a wonderful series.
And if you liked this, check out The Golden Age. Now THAT needs a hardcover absolutel edition!

Bill Nolan
11-30-2005, 04:57 PM
Wow, I didn't know bnolan was batshit insane! :o

:drool: :dazed:

I had some issues, is all (with the story...). I tend to go a little overboard on my criticisms, admittedly, ever with stuff I enjoy.

- Bill

Mike Haseloff
11-30-2005, 04:59 PM
:drool: :dazed:

I had some issues, is all (with the story...). I tend to go a little overboard on my criticisms, admittedly, ever with stuff I enjoy.Well, that explains the fervor, if not the opinions. :p

dEnny!
11-30-2005, 05:01 PM
I am thinking of picking up the trades on this series, was it any good? I picked up #1 and liked it, but not enough to keep buying it. Did it improve?

You need to pick a pic or reduce the size of your Lost in Translation image. Thanks!

dEnny!
11-30-2005, 05:04 PM
I'm hoping DC releases an Absolute Edition.

Generic Poster
11-30-2005, 05:37 PM
Also, Cooke is my favorite artist working today. No question.

PeterSparker
11-30-2005, 07:31 PM
I'm in the pretty much loved it camp, I actually waited for the trade(s) because I knew the artwork alone was worth it. I really enjoyed the story and approach though. I haven't re-read them yet either, this thread is gonna make me read 'em this weekend now. cool

sarcastic_ninja
11-30-2005, 08:17 PM
im waiting for the whole series to be in a hardcover. i LOVED the art on this book, and i love just about everything Cooke does *art-wise*

him, tim sale, and josh middleton i think are my fav artists right now.

Boss Hogg
11-30-2005, 08:24 PM
One of the best trades I have ever read.

Francis
11-30-2005, 08:27 PM
Favorite book to come out in YEARS. I salivated over every single issue, Cooke is amazing.
re: the criticisms of the way the 50s was portrayed... Regardless of your opinion on the era, McCarthyism, etc. the book paints a complete effective picture of Cooke's vision of the era, which is what is important for an effective story imho.

Cooke's art blows my mind every time I see it. I love his Tangled Web issues and his SOLO book was awesome. Still trying to find a copy of Batman: Ego, though.

--
Francis

artimoff
11-30-2005, 08:39 PM
I am thinking of picking up the trades on this series, was it any good? I picked up #1 and liked it, but not enough to keep buying it. Did it improve?


If you didn't like part 1, don't buy part 2.

Bill Nolan
12-01-2005, 03:32 AM
...the book paints a complete effective picture of Cooke's vision of the era, which is what is important for an effective story imho.


OK, I can see that.

It's not nearly as bad as Alex Ross' "Uncle Sam" mini, as far as America-hating goes, so I can probably live with it...

Like I said before, I would definitely buy an Absolute Edition of this story, for the art alone. And I'm sure I could probably learn to appreciate the story if I re-read it.

- Bill

Francis
12-01-2005, 05:43 AM
I also will never understand how criticism is equal to "America hating", but then again I'm a liberal "America hater", so maybe that's just me.

--
Francis

TRILL, THE CARBON BASED LIFEFORM
12-01-2005, 05:44 AM
I loved this book, much to my surprise.

Mike Haseloff
12-01-2005, 05:46 AM
I also will never understand how criticism is equal to "America hating", but then again I'm a liberal "America hater", so maybe that's just me.Yeah, I mean... it's not like it's even sensationalist BS like a Michael Moore, or something else the kids get a kick out of.


As far as I can see it's just a contemporary reflection of a time in comics and America that had both it's faults, and promises.
Granted I've only read about half of it, but I'd be surprised if it deteriorated into something completely different.