PDA

View Full Version : All-Star Batman and Robin #2 is crap



Kefky
09-14-2005, 07:43 AM
Frank Miller has officially forgotten the difference between "cool" over-the-top, and "really-stupid-and-lame-aimed-at-10-year-olds-looking-for-soft-porn-and-mindless-violence" over-the-top.

Batman kills all the crooked cops without a second tought. He also smacks Robin around and calls him a retard.

So now we get the choice between stupid jerk and completely neurotic Batman and insane, nihilistic Batman! Thanks, DC! :crazy:

Evan the Shaggy
09-14-2005, 07:47 AM
I'll pick up this issue but from what you've said and the story from the first issue, I'm thinking of dropping it.

My theory is that Frank Miller is secretly making really bad stories for DC in order to gain retribution for the comics industry "stealing" the grim and gritty genre from him.

Seltzer Water
09-14-2005, 07:47 AM
oh well, he has met my low expectations

Olivier E.
09-14-2005, 07:49 AM
:cry:

Kefky
09-14-2005, 07:49 AM
For the record, I enjoyed the first issue. I didn't love it, but I tought it was solid. But this was just... yea....

Still have high hopes AS Supes, though.

PoWerSurge
09-14-2005, 07:50 AM
Quick Batman History Question

Has he ever killed in main continuity?

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 07:50 AM
My theory is that Frank Miller is secretly making really bad stories for DC in order to gain retribution for the comics industry "stealing" the grim and gritty genre from him.
Agreed. I refuse to believe Frank could have REALLY gone this insane.

Gregory
09-14-2005, 07:51 AM
The beatings will continue until morale improves. On your feet, soldier! You're in a war now!

And Lee Ermey will play Batman in the movie adaptation.

McAfee
09-14-2005, 07:55 AM
I'll pick this one up, but if it turns out as bad as the last one, I'm officially done reading Batman for awhile.

DonFanucci
09-14-2005, 07:59 AM
Frank Miller has officially forgotten the difference between "cool" over-the-top, and "really-stupid-and-lame-aimed-at-10-year-olds-looking-for-soft-porn-and-mindless-violence" over-the-top.

Spoilers:
Batman kills all the crooked cops without a second tought. He also smacks Robin around and calls him a retard.


So now we get the choice between stupid jerk and completely neurotic Batman and insane, nihilistic Batman! Thanks, DC!


He's doing it to "toughen" the kid up... to scare the shit out of him now so he doesn't shit his pants when he's really in danger....makes sense to me.... why not?


The reaction to this book shows that you really can't win as a writer. People hate it when Bats is too light, they want him dark, psychotic, etc.... so here a dark Batman... but apparently it's too dark....

most people can't stand Robin, so now here's Miller doing something different with a character that most people don't like, again something dark and different... and it gets a bad reaction.

I'm happy Batman is kicking the crap out of Robin... most people can't stand the character anyway... if this 12 year old gymnast is going to roll with Batman, he should get the crap scared out of him, because he's doing to see some crazy shit that he didn't see in the circus.... and as for Batman killing people..... if any "hero" is going to kill people, it should be Batman....

Artie Pink
09-14-2005, 08:01 AM
How bizarre. You'd think Jim Lee would be able to talk some sense into him, at least.

It's too bad we got the Batman/Spawn-Frank Miller, instead of Year One-Frank Miller.


Memo to self: Don't get OLD!!

Olivier E.
09-14-2005, 08:01 AM
Quick Batman History Question

Has he ever killed in main continuity?

Batman never kills and will never kill, even if he as to die for that, it's the first rule for Batman

Olivier E.
09-14-2005, 08:02 AM
He's doing it to "toughen" the kid up... to scare the shit out of him now so he doesn't shit his pants when he's really in danger....makes sense to me.... why not?


The reaction to this book shows that you really can't win as a writer. People hate it when Bats is too light, they want him dark, psychotic, etc.... so here a dark Batman... but apparently it's too dark....

most people can't stand Robin, so now here's Miller doing something different with a character that most people don't like, again something dark and different... and it gets a bad reaction.

I'm happy Batman is kicking the crap out of Robin... most people can't stand the character anyway... if this 12 year old gymnast is going to roll with Batman, he should get the crap scared out of him, because he's doing to see some crazy shit that he didn't see in the circus.... and as for Batman killing people..... if any "hero" is going to kill people, it should be Batman....


I see that you don't get Batman...

The Human Target
09-14-2005, 08:03 AM
Since I'm on record as saying "All Star Batman was one of the worst comics I have ever tried to read" color me suprised that the second issue is silly.

Taxman
09-14-2005, 08:05 AM
He's doing it to "toughen" the kid up... to scare the shit out of him now so he doesn't shit his pants when he's really in danger....makes sense to me.... why not?Is this Batman or Bobby Knight?

NickT
09-14-2005, 08:05 AM
Just to quote someone from MW:

He hits Robin and calls him retarded.

He kills corrupt cops that are chasing them.

The Batmobile flys.

There's "taking the piss", and then there's this...I dont' know. I actually liked the first issue, but this is in a whole other world.


I'm scared :(

Smokinblues
09-14-2005, 08:06 AM
Since I'm on record as saying "All Star Batman was one of the worst comics I have ever tried to read" color me suprised that the second issue is silly.

I didn't pick up 2 because 1 was just awful.

Taxman
09-14-2005, 08:07 AM
I didn't pick up 2 because 1 was just awful.I won't either, same reason.

DonFanucci
09-14-2005, 08:08 AM
I see that you don't get Batman...

Please, O Batman Expert.... tell me and also Frank Miller (the best Batman writer/artist ever) who Batman is....

because apparently you and most of the other folks in this thread have a better idea of who Batman is than Miller.

Generic Poster
09-14-2005, 08:08 AM
Sounds like it's droppin' time!

At least I have high hopes for AS Superman.

joeAR
09-14-2005, 08:09 AM
Eh I liked it. Wasn't the greatest thing in the world but what ya going to do.

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 08:09 AM
Please, O Batman Expert.... tell me and also Frank Miller (the best Batman writer/artist ever) who Batman is....

because apparently you and most of the other folks in this thread have a better idea of who Batman is than Miller.
:rofl:

I like this guy. Someone give him a medal.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 08:12 AM
He's doing it to "toughen" the kid up... to scare the shit out of him now so he doesn't shit his pants when he's really in danger....makes sense to me.... why not?


The reaction to this book shows that you really can't win as a writer. People hate it when Bats is too light, they want him dark, psychotic, etc.... so here a dark Batman... but apparently it's too dark....

most people can't stand Robin, so now here's Miller doing something different with a character that most people don't like, again something dark and different... and it gets a bad reaction.

I'm happy Batman is kicking the crap out of Robin... most people can't stand the character anyway... if this 12 year old gymnast is going to roll with Batman, he should get the crap scared out of him, because he's doing to see some crazy shit that he didn't see in the circus.... and as for Batman killing people..... if any "hero" is going to kill people, it should be Batman....

Well, I'm sorry, but I'm not one those people who thinks Batman should be dark as hell or else he's lame. Though I don't think he should "happy" 60's batman. There should a balance. DC's completely screwing that. Batman's getting so dark that it feels silly and forced.

As for Robin, I was hoping Miller would finally give me a reason to give a damn about the character, not humilate him.

DonFanucci
09-14-2005, 08:14 AM
:rofl:

I like this guy. Someone give him a medal.


I'm sorry, alright if you don't like AS Batman.... but going down the "Frank Miller has lost it" road is crazy....

At least he's doing something new and different with the character.... he's proven he can write Bats with the 2 best Bat books ever, so instead of giving us a retread, he does something new.... god forbid.

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 08:14 AM
As for Robin, I was hoping Miller would finally give me a reason to give a damn about the character, not humilate him.
Miller should have Batman pee on him while Alfred records it.

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 08:15 AM
I'm sorry, alright if you don't like AS Batman.... but going down the "Frank Miller has lost it" road is crazy....

At least he's doing something new and different with the character.... he's proven he can write Bats with the 2 best Bat books ever, so instead of giving us a retread, he does something new.... god forbid.
I wasn't being sarcastic, man.

joeAR
09-14-2005, 08:16 AM
Bullshit! WHen he was first created he used to use a gun.


It's funny how often people forget about that.

TIP
09-14-2005, 08:16 AM
Bullshit! WHen he was first created he used to use a gun.


This is true. Post-Crisis Batman is different...and, now with All-Stars, this is yet another continuity.

T

DonFanucci
09-14-2005, 08:17 AM
Well, I'm sorry, but I'm not one those people who thinks Batman should be dark as hell or else he's lame. Though I don't think he should "happy" 60's batman. There should a balance. DC's completely screwing that. Batman's getting so dark that it feels silly and forced.

As for Robin, I was hoping Miller would finally give me a reason to give a damn about the character, not humilate him.

I doubt Miller is forcing anything... he's way too talented to do that... you'd think his comic resume would prove that, but apparently not... you want a creater who's lost it? Go read a Claremont book.... but Miller hasn't "lost it"....


And Robin already humiliated himself when he:

a) became a male gymnast
b) put on the brightest and worst superhero costume of all-time on when he got the Batman's side-kick gig. He should get slapped around for walking around with that outfit on.

Evan the Shaggy
09-14-2005, 08:17 AM
Bullshit! WHen he was first created he used to use a gun.

He also fought giants by using a noose to hang them from the already in flight bat plane and shot villains when they were asleep (Mad Monk).

Smokinblues
09-14-2005, 08:17 AM
This is true. Post-Crisis Batman is different...and, now with All-Stars, this is yet another continuity.

T

I don't have a problem with him killing. I think it's stupid that he has a no killing ever policy. Batman would be more in line the killing as absolute last resort than that.

But All-Stars is so over the top all the time it's just unreadable.

joeAR
09-14-2005, 08:18 AM
This is true. Post-Crisis Batman is different...and, now with All-Stars, this is yet another continuity.

T


ding ding ding ding.

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 08:22 AM
I don't have a problem with him killing. I think it's stupid that he has a no killing ever policy. Batman would be more in line the killing as absolute last resort than that.
Amen! That's why I got so fucking disgusted with Hush, when Batman finally lost it with the Joker. Kill the weasely little fucker already! Hasn't he caused enough pain. Fuck the whole "If you do it, you're no worse than them" mentality! It's just a tired excuse to keep the Joker coming back to sell more comics and make shit more and more redundant and retarded. He crippled Barbara Gordon, he killed Jason Todd, those two alone should have put both of his feet in the grave, nevermind the countless others.

TIP
09-14-2005, 08:22 AM
I don't have a problem with him killing. I think it's stupid that he has a no killing ever policy. Batman would be more in line the killing as absolute last resort than that.

But All-Stars is so over the top all the time it's just unreadable.

Well, I personally haven't read issue 2 yet (won't get to the shop until tonight) so we shall see.

T

Olivier E.
09-14-2005, 08:23 AM
Bullshit! WHen he was first created he used to use a gun.

He used a gun but didn't kill, I've read the first 50 tec issues and haven't seen him killing anybody

Don, you're right Miller is the best Batman writer, but issue 1 was shit.

Why did he become Batman? Because eh wanted to prevent what happened to him or not? Now he kills those cops, which may have kids, who lose their innocent father(they don't know if their father are corrupt, Bruce father could as good have been a rapist, bruce would never know it)

Kefky
09-14-2005, 08:23 AM
I doubt Miller is forcing anything... he's way too talented to do that... you'd think his comic resume would prove that, but apparently not... you want a creater who's lost it? Go read a Claremont book.... but Miller hasn't "lost it"....


First, I was talking about DCU batman.

Second, when you're doing something that involves violence you have to be careful that it doesn't get too over-the-top and silly. In other words, forced. All-Star Batman was so silly and so over-the-top that it made me laugh.

Evan the Shaggy
09-14-2005, 08:24 AM
Amen! That's why I got so fucking disgusted with Hush, when Batman finally lost it with the Joker. Kill the weasely little fucker already! Hasn't he caused enough pain. Fuck the whole "If you do it, you're no worse than them" mentality! It's just a tired excuse to keep the Joker coming back to sell more comics and make shit more and more redundant and retarded. He crippled Barbara Gordon, he killed Jason Todd, those two alone should have put both of his feet in the grave, nevermind the countless others.

I really thought that either Bats or Gordon should have killed him when he killed Gordon's fiancee. That was the most brutal thing ever and I just couldn't see how Jim wouldn't have stomped his ass to death.

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 08:26 AM
I really thought that either Bats or Gordon should have killed him when he killed Gordon's fiancee. That was the most brutal thing ever and I just couldn't see how Jim wouldn't have stomped his ass to death.
Not familiar with the story, but yeah. I'm only a casual Batman reader. Whenever theres a good creative team, I'm there. Otherwise, I can't be bothered in a character who will essentially never change. It's infuriating.

The Human Target
09-14-2005, 08:29 AM
I don't have a problem with how Miller writes Batman. I have a problem with this book sucking.

And Miller hasn't done anything I've liked in years.

Evan the Shaggy
09-14-2005, 08:29 AM
Not familiar with the story, but yeah. I'm only a casual Batman reader. Whenever theres a good creative team, I'm there. Otherwise, I can't be bothered in a character who will essentially never change. It's infuriating.

Here's how it went down:

At the end of No Man's Land, Joker starts attacking shelters and kidnaps a number of babies from their parents in the chaos. He holds up in the basement of the GCPD and is found by Gordon's fiancee, who is a detective as well. She pulls her gun on the Joker, the Joker throws a baby to her, she drops the gun, and the Joker shoots her in the head while she's holding the baby in a ROOM FULL OF BABIES!

Godron loses it where he has his gun pointed at the Joker's face, and Batman steps back saying, "Do what you will."

Godron blows out the Joker's kneecap and collapses.

Generic Poster
09-14-2005, 08:29 AM
He used a gun but didn't kill, I've read the first 50 tec issues and haven't seen him killing anybody

Don, you're right Miller is the best Batman writer, but issue 1 was shit.

Why did he become Batman? Because eh wanted to prevent what happened to him or not? Now he kills those cops, which may have kids, who lose their innocent father(they don't know if their father are corrupt, Bruce father could as good have been a rapist, bruce would never know it)

Read them again. He machine guns Hugo Strange's monster men very early on.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 08:29 AM
There's a difference between killing a psychopath who's had tons of chances to be rehabilitated, and killing a bunch of people without a second tought, because he feels that they're evil and deserve to die.

This Batman has no likeable traits at all. He's just insane.

joeAR
09-14-2005, 08:30 AM
There's a difference between killing a psychopath who's had tons of chances to be rehabilitated, and killing a bunch of people without a second tought, because he feels that they're evil and deserve to die.

This Batman has no likeable traits at all. He's just insane.


Keep in mind that the story is told through Robin's eyes so therefore he appears insane(Miller said it in a interview from newsarama)

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 08:32 AM
There's a difference between killing a psychopath who's had tons of chances to be rehabilitated, and killing a bunch of people without a second tought, because he feels that they're evil and deserve to die.

This Batman has no likeable traits at all. He's just insane.
As opposed to being a complete pussy, who ends up fighting it out with the same halloween fuckers over and over and over again, until it becomes so redundant that it loses most of it's impact. That's always been the fatal flaw I've seen with Batman.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 08:39 AM
As opposed to being a complete pussy, who ends up fighting it out with the same halloween fuckers over and over and over again, until it becomes so redundant that it loses most of it's impact. That's always been the fatal flaw I've seen with Batman.

It's a comic book. Ever hear of "suspension of disbelief"? Going by your standards, Batman would just kill all the people he tought were evil, and when he ran out of them, he'd either kill himself because his whole meaning in life was gone, or just go completely berserk taking out random people until someome took him down and locked 'im up Arkham.

Fourthman
09-14-2005, 08:42 AM
You know, all the Bats problems aside, what I dislike is the feeling that this book would be used in a misguided attempt to "cure" gay. I think Miller is trying to juxtapose the mysoginy with the subtle pedophelia and all I'm getting from it is the serious creeps.

WAKKAJAWAKKA
09-14-2005, 08:42 AM
He's doing it to "toughen" the kid up... to scare the shit out of him now so he doesn't shit his pants when he's really in danger....makes sense to me.... why not?


The reaction to this book shows that you really can't win as a writer. People hate it when Bats is too light, they want him dark, psychotic, etc.... so here a dark Batman... but apparently it's too dark....

most people can't stand Robin, so now here's Miller doing something different with a character that most people don't like, again something dark and different... and it gets a bad reaction.

I'm happy Batman is kicking the crap out of Robin... most people can't stand the character anyway... if this 12 year old gymnast is going to roll with Batman, he should get the crap scared out of him, because he's doing to see some crazy shit that he didn't see in the circus.... and as for Batman killing people..... if any "hero" is going to kill people, it should be Batman....

Word, For The Most Part.

Wayno.

Olivier E.
09-14-2005, 08:43 AM
It's a comic book. Ever hear of "suspension of disbelief"? Going by your standards, Batman would just kill all the people he tought were evil, and when he ran out of them, he'd either kill himself because his whole meaning in life was gone, or just go completely berserk taking out random people until someome took him down and locked 'im up Arkham.

That's the Punisher

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 08:44 AM
It's a comic book. Ever hear of "suspension of disbelief"? Going by your standards, Batman would just kill all the people he tought were evil, and when he ran out of them, he'd either kill himself because his whole meaning in life was gone, or just go completely berserk taking out random people until someome took him down and locked 'im up Arkham.
And then DC would have to come up with their next big cash cow. I used to like Batman back in the Adams days. That was pretty cool stuff, but as much as I love Miller, ever since he did DKR, he's spawned a monster in all other writers. It's gotten so impossibly dark in the things that the villians do, that the only real option (when you think about it) would be to put them out of their misery. But they refuse to snuff them, and so it just makes Batman look more and more ineffective and schizophrenic as time passes.

Am I saying I like All-Star #2? No, haven't read it yet, can't judge. Just giving my two cents.

artimoff
09-14-2005, 08:45 AM
Quick Batman History Question

Has he ever killed in main continuity?

No.

The Human Target
09-14-2005, 08:45 AM
It's a comic book. Ever hear of "suspension of disbelief"? Going by your standards, Batman would just kill all the people he tought were evil, and when he ran out of them, he'd either kill himself because his whole meaning in life was gone, or just go completely berserk taking out random people until someome took him down and locked 'im up Arkham.

Generally suspension of disbelief means dumbness and plotholes.

artimoff
09-14-2005, 08:47 AM
I didn't pick up 2 because 1 was just awful.

I only picked up 1 & 2 because they are aweful. It's a trainwreck. I just can't keep my eyes off of it.

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 08:48 AM
Generally suspension of disbelief means dumbness and plotholes.
Oh man. I need to give you a hug, right fucking now.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 08:49 AM
And then DC would have to come up with their next big cash cow. I used to like Batman back in the Adams days. That was pretty cool stuff, but as much as I love Miller, ever since he did DKR, he's spawned a monster in all other writers. It's gotten so impossibly dark in the things that the villians do, that the only real option (when you think about it) would be to put them out of their misery. But they refuse to snuff them, and so it just makes Batman look more and more ineffective and schizophrenic as time passes.

Am I saying I like All-Star #2? No, haven't read it yet, can't judge. Just giving my two cents.

Hey, I completely agree with you. And Miller always said that he DIDN'T want other writers to follow his portrayl of Batman. That's why I'm pissed that he not only did the same thing, but went completely ballistic with the concept.

artimoff
09-14-2005, 08:49 AM
I don't have a problem with how Miller writes Batman. I have a problem with this book sucking.

And Miller hasn't done anything I've liked in years.

For once we agree. Miller has writen , what? 3 Great stories & 1 or 2 ok ones.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 08:50 AM
Generally suspension of disbelief means dumbness and plotholes.


Then you probably don't read super-hero comics 'cause they're full of that stuff. :p

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 08:51 AM
Hey, I completely agree with you. And Miller always said that he DIDN'T want other writers to follow his portrayl of Batman. That's why I'm pissed that he not only did the same thing, but went completely ballistic with the concept.
The only thing that makes sense here is that Miller is just taking this money and running, while writing this big "Fuck you" to DC, like he seemed to be doing with DKSA. This guy could probably get away with writing a scene of Batman pissing on Robin on a video tape, and DC would accept it. It's the only thing that makes any sense here, at all.

rwsmith
09-14-2005, 08:51 AM
Actually, I believe that Golden Age Batman killed people all the time.

artimoff
09-14-2005, 08:53 AM
Actually, I believe that Golden Age Batman killed people all the time.

Not in the batman archives I have.

The Human Target
09-14-2005, 08:53 AM
Oh man. I need to give you a hug, right fucking now.

Lets hug it out bitch!

Kefky
09-14-2005, 08:54 AM
The only thing that makes sense here is that Miller is just taking this money and running, while writing this big "Fuck you" to DC, like he seemed to be doing with DKSA. This guy could probably get away with writing a scene of Batman pissing on Robin on a video tape, and DC would accept it. It's the only thing that makes any sense here, at all.

Hey, they work with Byrne and Rob Liefeld, so why not?

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 08:55 AM
Lets hug it out bitch!
HA! I'd have said the same thing.

DonFanucci
09-14-2005, 08:55 AM
For once we agree. Miller has writen , what? 3 Great stories & 1 or 2 ok ones.

Only on the internet are quotes like that one dropped.....

He's only written what? The 2 best Batman stories ever? (take your pick: DK or Year 1) Along with the best Daredevil run? (again, take your pick, the stuff he wrote/drew or the Romita Jr. DD) And Sin City?

Yeah.... he's gotten lucky a few times, I guess.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 08:57 AM
Only on the internet are quotes like that one dropped.....

He's only written what? The 2 best Batman stories ever? (take your pick: DK or Year 1) Along with the best Daredevil run? (again, take your pick, the stuff he wrote/drew or the Romita Jr. DD) And Sin City?

Yeah.... he's gotten lucky a few times, I guess.

Hey, I agree that he was one of the best comic artists of the '80's. But so was John Byrne.

The Human Target
09-14-2005, 08:57 AM
Then you probably don't read super-hero comics 'cause they're full of that stuff. :p

Anymore I'm only reading one or two established old school heroes.

As to the whole Batman thing, I think if you're going to have him be a non-killing guy who just endlessly puts the same two dozen crazy assholes back in Arkham only to watch them escape countless times, you have to have Batman be batshit crazy off the walls fucking insane. Thats the problem with eternal unchanging comic heroes that still have 70+ years of continuity. Eventually plots that seem reasonable in the beginning (ie a guy who catches criminals and puts them in an insane asylum) really wear dwon into pure nonsense. Bats not having the balls to kill, maim, or somehow incarcerate the villians he fights makes him look terrible and results in countless deaths. So he either has to be dumb, an asshole, or nuts.

artimoff
09-14-2005, 09:03 AM
Only on the internet are quotes like that one dropped.....

He's only written what? The 2 best Batman stories ever? (take your pick: DK or Year 1) Along with the best Daredevil run? (again, take your pick, the stuff he wrote/drew or the Romita Jr. DD) And Sin City?

Yeah.... he's gotten lucky a few times, I guess.

His first Daredevil run & Ronin were O.K.

Hes DKR, Year 1 & Second DD run were great.

Sin city is subpar,as is Give Me Liberty,300, DKSB, Batman/Spawn, Rusty & Big Guy, Hard Boiled, DD Year 1, & his DD & Elektra Livea Again graphic novels.

I did forget Elektra: Assassin. That was great.

Olivier E.
09-14-2005, 09:03 AM
Only on the internet are quotes like that one dropped.....

He's only written what? The 2 best Batman stories ever? (take your pick: DK or Year 1) Along with the best Daredevil run? (again, take your pick, the stuff he wrote/drew or the Romita Jr. DD) And Sin City?

Yeah.... he's gotten lucky a few times, I guess.

but he has also written elektra assassin and DKSB #3, he has already written bad stories he ain't a god

Allen Y
09-14-2005, 09:17 AM
Bwahahahahaha!

At least it's interesting as a comedy book.

Allen

ds9
09-14-2005, 09:23 AM
He's doing it to "toughen" the kid up... to scare the shit out of him now so he doesn't shit his pants when he's really in danger....makes sense to me.... why not?


The reaction to this book shows that you really can't win as a writer. People hate it when Bats is too light, they want him dark, psychotic, etc.... so here a dark Batman... but apparently it's too dark....

most people can't stand Robin, so now here's Miller doing something different with a character that most people don't like, again something dark and different... and it gets a bad reaction.

I'm happy Batman is kicking the crap out of Robin... most people can't stand the character anyway... if this 12 year old gymnast is going to roll with Batman, he should get the crap scared out of him, because he's doing to see some crazy shit that he didn't see in the circus.... and as for Batman killing people..... if any "hero" is going to kill people, it should be Batman....I love it myself.

Yannick_B
09-14-2005, 09:27 AM
I dont know where people are coming from with the Batman killing cops, because we are clearly shown they're getting out of cars.

The whole discussion of "Batman doesnt kill his enemies; its stupid" is ridiculous, its not part of the character, accept it or not and it would suck if he did.

-Yannick_B

sto110
09-14-2005, 09:39 AM
Batman never kills and will never kill, even if he as to die for that, it's the first rule for Batman


BATMAN would kill gangsters and use guns in the 40s

Kefky
09-14-2005, 09:40 AM
I love it myself.

Was it difficult to be brainwashed so you could always love everything DC does, and hate everything marvel does?

HCMarvel
09-14-2005, 09:49 AM
This is, without a doubt, one of the worst comics i've ever read. It is exactly how i'd write a comic if i wanted to make fun of Batman And Robin. Like...exactly. This is really really really bad stuff. Compare this to the first two issues of Ultimate Spider-Man....wow....just wow....

ds9
09-14-2005, 10:20 AM
Was it difficult to be brainwashed so you could always love everything DC does, and hate everything marvel does?Not true my friend not true. I hated the first issue but I like the militant type batman and thats what I expected from Miller and I love Jim lees art so its a fun super hero book to me. It doesnt promise to be anything new or cracking the internet or anything like that.

Yannick_B
09-14-2005, 10:33 AM
Compare this to the first two issues of Ultimate Spider-Man....wow....just wow....
Yeah, its totally two different characters, tones, approaches and etc.

-YannickB

Garra
09-14-2005, 10:48 AM
I dont see where batman killed any cops. In all the panels I see where he is bull dozing thru the cars, you see the cops running off.

I am by no means a batman expert. Really started getting into reading batman about 18 months ago or so. And then it was story archs, knightfall, hush, and so on.

So maybe that is why I am not so repulsed by this issue as alot of folks are. I read The Dark Knight Returns for the first time several months back and like most people loved it.

I see some similarities between what Miller did with that and this. I think his rendition of this issues cover even reflects that. Of course that doesnt mean it will work, but I have enjoyed enough of what Miller has wrote to give him some more time and see what he does with this. I agree, even a novice Batman reader such as myself that alot of stuff in here seems out of character, but that was my initial thought on reading DKR. At least , like it or hate it, he is explaining what batman is thinking in this instead of just leaving it up to us to guess.

The things that bothered me the most was the flying car I thought was silly as hell and the bare chested Alfred holding the unconcious Ms. Vale. After thepanel just before that, where it looked like they were about to make out, no telling what he does with her. :scared:

I get that Batman wants to scare his new recruit to keep his mind off of grieving for his parents, to keep that experience raw and fresh in him to help to feed Dick, but I think he could have gone about it alittle better.

I suppose we are to assume that Dick passed from falling into grief because of at the end how he pops his head back up after starting to grief and tells Batman he would be brave or what ever?

ds9
09-14-2005, 10:50 AM
Yeah, its totally two different characters, tones, approaches and etc.

-YannickBAnd I liked the second issue of this book.

Yannick_B
09-14-2005, 10:54 AM
I liked both, its just a weird comparison to make, they're so different. I have liked both issues, I thought the flying Batmobile was a BIT much, but I'm going along with it.

-Yannick_B

Allen Y
09-14-2005, 10:55 AM
The things that bothered me the most was the flying car I thought was silly as hell and the bare chested Alfred holding the unconcious Ms. Vale. After thepanel just before that, where it looked like they were about to make out, no telling what he does with her. :scared:
Lollerskates. I now want to read this title.

Allen

Flonk
09-14-2005, 12:22 PM
Frank Miller has officially forgotten the difference between "cool" over-the-top, and "really-stupid-and-lame-aimed-at-10-year-olds-looking-for-soft-porn-and-mindless-violence" over-the-top.

Batman kills all the crooked cops without a second tought. He also smacks Robin around and calls him a retard.

So now we get the choice between stupid jerk and completely neurotic Batman and insane, nihilistic Batman! Thanks, DC! :crazy:

It doesn't make any sense, but I saw it. I saw it. I saw it. It was brutal. It was brutal. It was brutal

Goddamn this comic is awful. Avoid it like it was an ugly hooker wearing a shirt reading "I have AIDS and will rob you of your money and kidneys." Or read it and despair to see Batman giggle as he slaps a child in his flying car, whilst shirtless Alfred romances Vicki Vale.

Flonk
09-14-2005, 12:23 PM
I didn't pick up 2 because 1 was just awful.
I wish I could, but my OCD won't let me. :(

Garra
09-14-2005, 12:24 PM
Or read it and despair to see Batman giggle as he slaps a child in his flying car, whilst shirtless Alfred romances Vicki Vale.

I aint hating on it, but your description cracked me up.

I wish previews would have had it described like that in its description last month. :D

Flonk
09-14-2005, 12:24 PM
Pl Frank Miller (the best Batman writer/artist ever)
Wrong on both counts.


But Year One is the best Batman story of all time.

Flonk
09-14-2005, 12:28 PM
First, I was talking about DCU batman.

Second, when you're doing something that involves violence you have to be careful that it doesn't get too over-the-top and silly. In other words, forced. All-Star Batman was so silly and so over-the-top that it made me laugh.

As the Batmobile was flying away, I was convinced that Robin was going to wake up and we were going to find out he was halucinating becasue of Fear Gas or something. There was no other logical conclusion.

Flonk
09-14-2005, 12:29 PM
Keep in mind that the story is told through Robin's eyes so therefore he appears insane(Miller said it in a interview from newsarama)

If it's told through Robin's eyes then why does Batman narrate it?

Mr. E!
09-14-2005, 12:32 PM
His first Daredevil run & Ronin were O.K.

Hes DKR, Year 1 & Second DD run were great.

Sin city is subpar,as is Give Me Liberty,300, DKSB, Batman/Spawn, Rusty & Big Guy, Hard Boiled, DD Year 1, & his DD & Elektra Livea Again graphic novels.

I did forget Elektra: Assassin. That was great.

300 is sub par? Wow...

Xander Boune
09-14-2005, 12:33 PM
*shrug*

I thought it was so over the top it was B-movie awesome. The best part of the book was the Frank Miller cover, but damn if I didn't laugh when Batman called Robin a retard. The writing is so completely nuts in every respect that I find myself enjoying it despite itself. I could do without the over-repetition, but so far it's enough to keep me coming back. At the very least I need to see where Miller goes with this.

kylethoreau
09-14-2005, 12:40 PM
was it this bad when USM came out too?

Anyways, have yet to check out either book since A) I'm low on cash most of the time now, and B) The book didn't interest me that much from what I saw.


I am, however, interested now.


Any here thought that this IS the Dark Knight Returns Batman? Would explain the behavior a little bit,as standard Bats is not this nuts.

bachman
09-14-2005, 12:41 PM
Meh, its better than any of the ongoing Batman titles.

Adam Witt
09-14-2005, 12:43 PM
My theory on the whole wacky Batman thing is that Grayson is so freaking scared that he's imagining it [sorry if someone else posted this, but I didn't read through the whole dealy cuz I am lazy]. The whole Batmobile flying thing didn't seem right, nor did the vaporizing cops. I want to have faith in this book, so maybe I'm as crazy as Miller is.

JamesV
09-14-2005, 12:52 PM
I felt issue 1 was pretty weak and that issue 2 started the same way and then I actually found myself hooked in and enjoying it, especially by the end.

First off, it's out of continuity, so if I can accept an elseworld's vampire Batman, I can accept a Batman who might have killed (the art really makes it look like everyone was okay).

Personally, the book grew on me towards the end when Batman begin to self-doubt himself - presenting the possibility that this Ultimate Grim & Gritty Batman, may end up a not so Grim & Gritty thanks to Grayson. Those last few pages - with a Batman who at times has to talk himself into being so hateful - sold me.

abuddah
09-14-2005, 01:22 PM
Quick Batman History Question

Has he ever killed in main continuity?

About as main as continuity can get, Detective Comics 27-39 he carries a gun, and certainly lets a lot of criminals die. I don't think he ever shot point blank but people died which is a much more realistic approach for supposedly the most 'ground level' character in superhero comics. BTW this was smoothly referenced in Planetary/Batman, and kinda referenced in Batman begins by him not saving Al Gul.

As for All-Star Batman, if DK2 wasn't enough indication he'd lost it, Issue one of All-Star confirmed it. I'll be reading my buddy's copy of just out of morbid curiosity.

Still have high hopes for All Star Superman. Morrison/Quitely are the tits

Seltzer Water
09-14-2005, 01:47 PM
I just read it and really enjoyed it. As far as an "ultimate" take, I thought it really worked well. The Jim Lee art takes an edge off the Frank Miller writing which somehow works here

Mister Mets
09-14-2005, 01:50 PM
If Batman's killing people, why the hell is the Joker still alive?

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 01:52 PM
Okay, after actually reading the book after hearing everyone bitch about it... You guys are all a bunch of fucking babies. Seriously. You really don't see ANYONE die in the comic. No one. Sure, there's an explosion, but where are the bodies? Would people really be screaming at Batman and calling him a 'dumb palooka' or whatever, if they were really dying in a fire? The Robin-Retard thing was so fucking minor that just barely made me chuckle. I'll give that the dialogue repitition was a little bit grating, and yeah, Batman seems a bit out of character, but really... As big of a retarded Chuck Heston pose as he's striking, he's A THOUSAND times more interesting than Batman has been in any of his normal title. (Noted exception, the David Lapham run. Which is the best Batman run I've read in ages)

Yeah, this book has it's share of blemishes on it, but I can think of a thousand books that are more deserving of the ammount of hate you're all slinging at it.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 01:56 PM
For the record, I'm not hating on it, I just think it's crap. It didn't make me angry, it made me laugh.

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 01:59 PM
For the record, I'm not hating on it, I just think it's crap. It didn't make me angry, it made me laugh.
And yet, I still think you're a fucking baby! :P

Kefky
09-14-2005, 02:09 PM
Yea, yea, whatever man! Like you even know me!














Damn, my pacifier's full of drool again... I'd better go wash it...

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 02:16 PM
Yea, yea, whatever man! Like you even know me!














Damn, my pacifier's full of drool again... I'd better go wash it...
I'd tell you to go suck on your mommy's tit, but... I'm busy with it!

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN!!!

Kefky
09-14-2005, 02:22 PM
I'd tell you to go suck on your mommy's tit, but... I'm busy with it!

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN!!!

Oh, so THAT'S who she was complaining about the other day! She was saying you were so pathetic that not even viagra could help you get it up! :lol:

FredC
09-14-2005, 02:25 PM
I wasn't going to buy this until I'd heard a review from you guys, and I'm glad I waited. *whew*

xanderharris
09-14-2005, 02:31 PM
can someone explain to me how this got by the editors and the shit...couldnt someone have read it and be like uh Mr Miller...this doesnt exactly seem like the character of Batman.....or did someone actually think this was a great script and would live up to the expectations of this being the greatest creative team in the history of the business...all i know is if Marvel did this.......everyone here would be screaming for Quesadas head and asking how he couldve let this happen

Boris the Blade
09-14-2005, 02:51 PM
On first read, I thought it was ridiculously over-the-top and exceedingly uncharacteristic of Batman. Then again, it's not supposed to be typical Batman. Still, his plan to be a complete whacko was pretty damn silly. If Dick wasn't totally terrified of Bruce, isn't that a sign that the little fucker is tougher than he thought? I did like the end, where Dick is going to exploit Whacko-Batman to find out why his parents were killed though. I think Dick is probably the only character here I think is on the right track.

ds9
09-14-2005, 02:55 PM
was it this bad when USM came out too?

Anyways, have yet to check out either book since A) I'm low on cash most of the time now, and B) The book didn't interest me that much from what I saw.


I am, however, interested now.


Any here thought that this IS the Dark Knight Returns Batman? Would explain the behavior a little bit,as standard Bats is not this nuts.USM was boring when it first came out.

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 02:56 PM
USM was boring when it first came out.
You're boring, and you never seem to want to come out!

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN!

CapnChaos
09-14-2005, 02:59 PM
What a surprise from the guy that turned Batman into a Nazi...

ds9
09-14-2005, 03:00 PM
You're boring, and you never seem to want to come out!

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN! ;-) :moon:

Zack
09-14-2005, 03:01 PM
Quick Batman History Question

Has he ever killed in main continuity?


in Detective #27 he kills a guy...punches him into a vat of acid.
also, in Robin's first appearance, Robin kills a guy too. hit's him in the head with his sling shot and knocks him off of a girder...the dude plummets off of a high rise building

Zack
09-14-2005, 03:04 PM
Batman never kills and will never kill, even if he as to die for that, it's the first rule for Batman


not true. read some of the old bob kane/bill finger stuff

Zack
09-14-2005, 03:06 PM
Bullshit! WHen he was first created he used to use a gun.

thank you

Jonny Z
09-14-2005, 03:12 PM
I just read it and really enjoyed it. As far as an "ultimate" take, I thought it really worked well. The Jim Lee art takes an edge off the Frank Miller writing which somehow works here

i almost agree with you- although i feel like Miller is Sin Citying Batman and i think it'd be interesting to see his art on the book.

i loved this issue- its like batman is living in sin city rather than gotham- and i'm sure sin city was inspired by gotham in the first place. although the whole issue takes place in his car (thank god not his backseat) i think the paranoia was fun. its just pulpy fun batman for the masses.

and really folks- can we find one panel to support your argument that batman kills cops? what about in batman begins during the chase scene, cop cars crash and shit and no one complained about that. lets not be so quick to point out miller is ruining batman- the guy has probably the best take on batman in the history of the character.

Zack
09-14-2005, 03:13 PM
Not in the batman archives I have.


what batman archives are you reading then?

sonnylarue
09-14-2005, 03:15 PM
i have the batman from the 30's to the 70's hardcover, that reprints a couple of 1939 stories wher Batman has a gun, uses it, and does indeed,kill the villian.

Zack
09-14-2005, 03:19 PM
Meh, its better than any of the ongoing Batman titles.

WAY better

...well, Lapham's stuff is pretty solid

sonnylarue
09-14-2005, 03:20 PM
from Batman, the complete history

http://www.dccomics.com/features/bmtch/1.htm (http://www.dccomics.com/features/bmtch/1.htm)


(Gardner) Fox would later script such characters as the Flash, Hawkman, Sandman, Dr. Fate, and the Justice Society of America, and his undisputed contributions to Detective Comics #31 and #32 also included some significant events. Batman was provided with a fiancťe, Julie Madison (although she was soon forgotten), and with two new weapons. One was a stylized helicopter, "my Batgyro," as Batman put it, and the other was "the flying Baterang, modeled after the Australian bushman's boomerang." So Fox seems to have started the concept of Batman's ever expanding arsenal, and he also set Batman against the supernatural in this two-issue story. The villain was the Monk, who turned out to be a vampire, so Batman shot the bloodsucker and his sultry concubine with silver bullets. The business with guns was troublesome, and after one more recurrence DC's editorial staff decided to disarm Batman as far as deadly weapons were concerned, lest youthful fans take arms against a sea of troubles. The use of supernatural events would also be discouraged in the future, perhaps on the grounds that nobody should be scarier than Batman. He was a grim figure in his first years, casually killing criminals, and Bob Kane liked this dark version best-but it was not to last.

Zack
09-14-2005, 03:25 PM
I wasn't going to buy this until I'd heard a review from you guys, and I'm glad I waited. *whew*

you let others dictate what you buy and/or enjoy?

Zack
09-14-2005, 03:28 PM
from Batman, the complete history

http://www.dccomics.com/features/bmtch/1.htm (http://www.dccomics.com/features/bmtch/1.htm)


ahh, the old days...when the company made decisions about the direction of a character, despite how the creators envisioned him

....wait. old days?

TonyFleecs
09-14-2005, 03:28 PM
The Batmobile turning into a plane didn't really bug me at all... it was like a fucking super tank! it was Frank Miller batmobile.

I don't think he killed any cops..... maimed maybe.

The only thing I couldn't get behind was: Alfred was a special op in her majesty's secret service??? How the fuck did he end up a butler? that is some kind of demotion.

I'm gonna wait a while to make any kind of judgement on the book though... I'm still just happy it's Frank Miller & Jim Lee on batman.


And now for today's episode of "The Craziest Shit I ever heard":

His first Daredevil run & Ronin were O.K.

Sin city is subpar,as ...300........Hard Boiled, DD Year 1, & his DD & Elektra Livea Again graphic novels..
Fucking WOW.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 03:40 PM
The only thing I couldn't get behind was: Alfred was a special op in her majesty's secret service??? How the fuck did he end up a butler? that is some kind of demotion.


You see, Miller's writing here for the mentality of 10-year-olds.

"Wow, Alfred a was super-spy once? Coool! And haha, he even hit on Vicky Lake! He may be an old fart, but he's still cool... for an old fart!"

sonnylarue
09-14-2005, 03:44 PM
You see, Miller's writing here for the mentality of 10-year-olds.

"Wow, Alfred a super-spy once? Coool! And haha, he even hit on Vicky Lake! He may be an old fart, but he's still cool... for an old fart!"

again, this was something in alfred's continuity past, created before Miller ever wrote the character.

You ARE right, that the Alfred backgorund was created to entertain a kid audience... but that's who the books were aimed at.

:no:

mayhemspider
09-14-2005, 03:48 PM
Ok, first off, lets get one thing clear. this is as if Frank Miller created Batman himself. thats the premise behind these all star books: our favorite modern creators creating our favorite classic characters, much in the vein that Grant Morrison has admitted that his interpretation of Marvel Boy would be how he would have created spider-man.
as such, i like to think of this, as mentioned before, like sin city's batman. or a smarter marv in a batsuit. and its kinda fascinating. and considering i hate robin more than pretty much any character this side of jar jar, the fact that i'm interested in seeing how he comes to be batman's side kick, how he changes this militant crazy-man (and we all know he will, batman will soften up because robin will renew his faith in humanity) is a remarkable feat.
as far as the perfect interpretation of batman, i've always used the 1989 movie as my defining early career batman, a little reckless, willing to acheive his ends no matter the means
(like blowing up axis chemicals with the batmobile despite it being full of joker-goons, and ultimately ensuring joker doesn't escape by latching him to a gargoyle, because, what other option did he have? you'd lose it too if someone killed your parents, blew up your personal jet, killed dozens of people in your city, and kidnapped your girlfriend. thats alot to deal with for the first case to effect your personal life) *phew*
in more recent times though, i've found that i love Brian Azzarello's interpretation of an aging batman dealing with meaninglessness in his run on the flagship title, and on Batman/Deathblow. his batman was professional, and investigative counter-intelligence oriented crime fighter, and it was the freshest take i'd seen on the character since the animated series from '92, another of my favorite batman interpretations. ultimately, as ironic as it seems, i prefer the solo more realistic batman where he stays in the shadows and isn't invincible mentally, but self evaluates, wonders if he's making a difference or wasting his life, and would never want another human to have to put up with the shit he has to on a regular basis, let alone be responsible for someone's life being as crazy as his (no sidekicks).
which brings me to batman begins. i liked the emphasis on batman obtaining his training and gear, but the rest of the plot was just silliness. a secret ninja sect from asia bent on destroying gotham? ok.... and batman letting gordon drive his batmobile and blow up a rail system that could potentially cost thousands of lives? sounds fun, but very non-batman. but i enjoyed it all the same. and i'm really just viewing this comic as an extension of batman begins.
so in summation: its not how i'd write batman, or prefer he be defined, but i like it so far.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 03:51 PM
again, this was something in alfred's continuity past, created before Miller ever wrote the character.

You ARE right, that the Alfred backgorund was created to entertain a kid audience... but that's who the books were aimed at.

:no:

Was he a playa in the golden age too? Those were some wacky comics...

Nick_Ardill
09-14-2005, 04:05 PM
Amen! That's why I got so fucking disgusted with Hush, when Batman finally lost it with the Joker. Kill the weasely little fucker already! Hasn't he caused enough pain. Fuck the whole "If you do it, you're no worse than them" mentality! It's just a tired excuse to keep the Joker coming back to sell more comics and make shit more and more redundant and retarded. He crippled Barbara Gordon, he killed Jason Todd, those two alone should have put both of his feet in the grave, nevermind the countless others.
But they got better. :-?

Olivier E.
09-14-2005, 04:23 PM
Was he a playa in the golden age too? Those were some wacky comics...

according to the tec back issue, he was a James Bond before, so i bet he did it a lot

Ashton
09-14-2005, 04:48 PM
read #2 today and loved it. this is batman crazy and on the edge- he's at war on crime and is obsessed. and Dick Grayson is about to be engulfed in this madness. fun stuff!

bachman
09-14-2005, 05:39 PM
I really don't understand all the hate. The only thing I can figure is that some people want attention by overly insulting a very hyped book made by two legends.

This is Frank Miller's version of Batman. Gotham is dirty in every sense of the word. Batman is in the early stages of his career, has a bit of an ego and is a mean bastard. Alfred is an experienced medic. Robin is a smart kid who Batman has picked to be his heir, so he's trying to toughen him up.

I like it, a lot. What the fuck is all the bitching about?

Oh, and it's fine to express your opinion, but try and show a little respect for someone who is arguably the best Batman writer of all time. Even if you don't care for his current work.

FredC
09-14-2005, 05:44 PM
you let others dictate what you buy and/or enjoy?

Nope. But I didn't enjoy the first issue much and hoped the second would be an improvement. Since most people think it's crap, I won't bother spending 2.99 on it.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 05:47 PM
I really don't understand all the hate. The only thing I can figure is that some people want attention by overly insulting a very hyped book made by two legends.

This is Frank Miller's version of Batman. Gotham is dirty in every sense of the word. Batman is in the early stages of his career, has a bit of an ego and is a mean bastard. Alfred is an experienced medic. Robin is a smart kid who Batman has picked to be his heir, so he's trying to toughen him up.

I like it, a lot. What the fuck is all the bitching about?

Oh, and it's fine to express your opinion, but try and show a little respect for someone who is arguably the best Batman writer of all time. Even if you don't care for his current work.

Not hate, just lame, aimed at horny teens who enjoy mindless violence, soft-porn, etc.

LenNWallace
09-14-2005, 05:49 PM
Not hate, just lame, aimed at horny teens who enjoy mindless violence, soft-porn, etc.
http://www.auburn.edu/~murraba/elucid/baby,crying,tantrum.jpg
"Wah!"

bachman
09-14-2005, 05:53 PM
Not hate, just lame, aimed at horny teens who enjoy mindless violence, soft-porn, etc.

Point out one thing in this issue aimed at horny teens. What, Alfred tending to an injured woman? That's hot.

Is it the fact that Jim Lee draws attractive women? Well, we've only known that for about 13 years.

And violence?!?!? In a comic?!?!? A SUPERHERO COMIC?!?! Holy shit!!!!!
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bachman
09-14-2005, 05:55 PM
Nope. But I didn't enjoy the first issue much and hoped the second would be an improvement. Since most people think it's crap, I won't bother spending 2.99 on it.

Most people are wrong. They must prefer the current ongoing Batman books.

Which feature 63 supporting characters, cops and sidekicks, and Batman showing up every once in a while. Fun.

BGorski
09-14-2005, 05:57 PM
http://www.auburn.edu/~murraba/elucid/baby,crying,tantrum.jpg
"Wah!"

lmao.

i havent picked up my weekly books yet, but i will thumb through this, i liked the first ish, i really dont want to be let down. :deapool2:

Kefky
09-14-2005, 06:01 PM
Point out one thing in this issue aimed at horny teens. What, Alfred tending to an injured woman? That's hot.

Is it the fact that Jim Lee draws attractive women? Well, we've only known that for about 13 years.

And violence?!?!? In a comic?!?!? A SUPERHERO COMIC?!?! Holy shit!!!!!
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You read issue 1, right? So you know. And sure, everyone likes violence, but this is stupid and mindless violence with absolutely nothing else to add, and a main character who's so forcedly bad-ass that it's funny. Seems like it's aimed kinds to me.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 06:02 PM
Most people are wrong. They must prefer the current ongoing Batman books.

Which feature 63 supporting characters, cops and sidekicks, and Batman showing up every once in a while. Fun.

Both suck in their own respective ways. :)

Kefky
09-14-2005, 06:03 PM
http://www.auburn.edu/~murraba/elucid/baby,crying,tantrum.jpg
"Wah!"

Don't think that I didn't notice how you took my toy train, you prick! I'm tellin' my mom! :mad:

bachman
09-14-2005, 06:08 PM
and a main character who's so forcedly bad-ass that it's funny.

You did read page 19 right?

1. He is testing Grayson to see if he will crack

2. How does an army drill Sgt. act when breaking in new recruits?

3. Miller has said this takes place in Batman's second or third year, so it makes sense that Batman would have a bit of an ego.

Just out of curiosity, what are some of your favorite Batman stories? Seriously. Because if you prefer the Batman from the 50's or 60's I can see how you might not dig Miller's Batman.

Olivier E.
09-14-2005, 06:11 PM
You did read page 19 right?

1. He is testing Grayson to see if he will crack

2. How does an army drill Sgt. act when breaking in new recruits?

3. Miller has said this takes place in Batman's second or third year, so it makes sense that Batman would have a bit of an ego.

Just out of curiosity, what are some of your favorite Batman stories? Seriously. Because if you prefer the Batman from the 50's or 60's I can see how you might not dig Miller's Batman.

but isn't dick 11 or 12?

Kefky
09-14-2005, 06:12 PM
You did read page 19 right?

1. He is testing Grayson to see if he will crack

2. How does an army drill Sgt. act when breaking in new recruits?

3. Miller has said this takes place in Batman's second or third year, so it makes sense that Batman would have a bit of an ego.

Just out of curiosity, what are some of your favorite Batman stories? Seriously. Because if you prefer the Batman from the 50's or 60's I can see how you might not dig Miller's Batman.

Ooooo, wow, that's such a low-blow dude! Seriously! Telling me I like old and stupid Batman that nobody likes anymore! :roll:

I'm sooooo offended that I won't even TELLL you what Batman stories I like!

bachman
09-14-2005, 06:12 PM
and really folks- can we find one panel to support your argument that batman kills cops? what about in batman begins during the chase scene, cop cars crash and shit and no one complained about that. lets not be so quick to point out miller is ruining batman- the guy has probably the best take on batman in the history of the character.

I felt this deserved repeating.

Zack
09-14-2005, 06:16 PM
Nope. But I didn't enjoy the first issue much and hoped the second would be an improvement. Since most people think it's crap, I won't bother spending 2.99 on it.


but, again, you're relying on the opinion of others to help determine whether or not you will pick up this book. who gives a good goddamn if "most" people think it's crap...by the way, there are only a handful of people even posting in this thread.

why not just go to your lcs, or borders, or wherever you buy your books from and read it or flip through it; then decide whether or not you want to buy it.

just a thought.

bachman
09-14-2005, 06:17 PM
Ooooo, wow, that's such a low-blow dude! Seriously! Telling me I like old and stupid Batman that nobody likes anymore! :roll:

I'm sooooo offended that I won't even TELLL you what Batman stories I like!

That was not an insult, rather a question. And you're not arguing my points nor supporting yours. This is not unlike trying to talk to a brick wall.

I'll just end it by saying that this is the tough, obsessed Batman that Miller introduced twenty years ago, and it's awesome. I'm sorry you're wrong, and kind of strange.

Love.

Kefky
09-14-2005, 06:19 PM
That was not an insult, rather a question. And you're not arguing my points nor supporting yours. This is not unlike trying to talk to a brick wall.

I'll just end it by saying that this is the tough, obsessed Batman that Miller introduced twenty years ago, and it's awesome. I'm sorry you're wrong, and kind of strange.

Love.

:lol:

Olivier E.
09-14-2005, 06:21 PM
Ooooo, wow, that's such a low-blow dude! Seriously! Telling me I like old and stupid Batman that nobody likes anymore! :roll:

I'm sooooo offended that I won't even TELLL you what Batman stories I like!

I like Batman strikes, the only 50's issue i own is Tec 247, where Batman becomes Starman and it wasn't that bad

Olivier E.
09-14-2005, 06:22 PM
but, again, you're relying on the opinion of others to help determine whether or not you will pick up this book. who gives a good goddamn if "most" people think it's crap...by the way, there are only a handful of people even posting in this thread.

why not just go to your lcs, or borders, or wherever you buy your books from and read it or flip through it; then decide whether or not you want to buy it.

just a thought.


because there are better comics to be browsed through

Zack
09-14-2005, 06:24 PM
because there are better comics to be browsed through

...you assume.

i'm not saying run out and buy it, i'm just saying don't call something crap that you haven't read

FredC
09-14-2005, 06:27 PM
but, again, you're relying on the opinion of others to help determine whether or not you will pick up this book. who gives a good goddamn if "most" people think it's crap...by the way, there are only a handful of people even posting in this thread.

why not just go to your lcs, or borders, or wherever you buy your books from and read it or flip through it; then decide whether or not you want to buy it.

just a thought.

Well I just thought the first sucked, although I wanted to like it. I wasn't planning on buying the second issue anyway til I saw the cover Frank Miller did. Then, after hearing people with the same view I had about the first issue voice their opinions here about the second, I have decided against buying the this series anymore. That's all. Maybe i'll read the trade sometime if I find it at a library.

Zack
09-14-2005, 06:28 PM
Well I just thought the first sucked, although I wanted to like it. I wasn't planning on buying the second issue anyway til I saw the cover Frank Miller did. Then, after hearing people with the same view I had about the first issue voice their opinions here about the second, I have decided against buying the this series anymore. That's all. Maybe i'll read the trade sometime if I find it at a library.


fair enough. we'll leave it at that. :D

Simps
09-14-2005, 08:37 PM
I fucking loved this book, read it 3 times. And I don't buy variant covers, I may have to make an exception for this book. Jonny previously nailed it with his comments, so I concur with him. This is Frank Miller doing a Batman in his prime, without the years of colorfull villains and the ensuing drama. This makes a hell of a lot more sense than any other previous interpretations, and I'm going to continue enjoying the ride this book is providing. And who didn't get juiced when they saw the DKR-reminiscant 9 or 12 panel pages.

Gavin
09-14-2005, 08:40 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I like it.

Lord Jermaine Retail
09-14-2005, 08:50 PM
Frank Miller has officially forgotten the difference between "cool" over-the-top, and "really-stupid-and-lame-aimed-at-10-year-olds-looking-for-soft-porn-and-mindless-violence" over-the-top.

Batman kills all the crooked cops without a second tought. He also smacks Robin around and calls him a retard.

So now we get the choice between stupid jerk and completely neurotic Batman and insane, nihilistic Batman! Thanks, DC! :crazy:
Does anyone else realize that there is no Batman book on the shelf where Batman is clearly the good guy and you can fully support him. We used to have Batman adventures where Batman was...well he was Batman the dark knight detective solving crimes and staying on task. I cannot get with a book where Batman smacks Robin, not even Robin but Dick Grayson minutes after he watched his parents get shot down by a thug, for not being able to keep it together. What is going on? What is the plan for Batman, DC?

BENDIS!
09-14-2005, 09:02 PM
you guys made me buy this today. i wasn't going to.

John Drake
09-14-2005, 09:09 PM
you guys made me buy this today. i wasn't going to.

So, did you like it?

Pat Loika
09-14-2005, 09:11 PM
you guys made me buy this today. i wasn't going to.

I did the same. I wanted to see what everyone's talking about...

P.

joeAR
09-14-2005, 09:12 PM
you guys made me buy this today. i wasn't going to.


So I take it that you didn't like the first issue then?

Jonny Z
09-14-2005, 09:17 PM
you guys made me buy this today. i wasn't going to.

LOVE THE PULP. SQUEEZE THE PULP. BATHE IN THE PULP. it's a crazy comic. i loved it.

Hil
09-14-2005, 09:19 PM
Man, my piss tastes terrible. No one should drink my piss. It's just awful. $3 to taste my piss, it's really disgustingly bad. Only $3.

Allen Y
09-14-2005, 09:23 PM
Quoting myself from Millarworld:

I know it's wrong, but more and more I'm loving the idea of a superhero smacking around his sidekick and calling him "retarded" when he goofs up.

Allen

Flonk
09-14-2005, 09:25 PM
I'll say it again. One of the worst comics I've read in my entire life.

Flonk
09-14-2005, 09:27 PM
:roll:
USM was boring when it first came out.

For reals, you're not pissed that the entire issue takes place inside the Batmobile? :no:

Flonk
09-14-2005, 09:33 PM
blow up a rail system that could potentially cost thousands of lives? sounds fun, but very non-batman. but i enjoyed it all the same. and i'm really just viewing this comic as an extension of batman begins.

I don't know where you got that from. It was in the commercial section of Gotham in the middle of the night. There were barely any civilain casulties. And even if it was the residential section, a couple hundered were in danger, at the most.

Flonk
09-14-2005, 09:36 PM
Point out one thing in this issue aimed at horny teens. What, Alfred tending to an injured woman? That's hot.

Is it the fact that Jim Lee draws attractive women? Well, we've only known that for about 13 years.

No, but Sexy Abs Alfred(tm) embracing Torn Evening Gown Vikki Vale(tm) was a bit much

Flonk
09-14-2005, 09:47 PM
Man, my piss tastes terrible. No one should drink my piss. It's just awful. $3 to taste my piss, it's really disgustingly bad. Only $3.

You know, you make a good point.

the last ronin
09-14-2005, 10:34 PM
yes it is in fact teh sux

Flonk
09-14-2005, 10:54 PM
Casue it's too damn good not to post. Here's an IM conversation I just had with my brother...

Flonk: Are you retarded?
The Gr8 Machine: How many CAPITALIZED WORDS do you NEED?
The Gr8 Machine: and what's with that "He just might do" shit?
The Gr8 Machine: it's lookin' more and more like Bruce Wayne put the hit on the Graysons
Flonk: Shirtless Alfred is my favorite part. The guy is ripped
The Gr8 Machine: Seriously
The Gr8 Machine: Vicki was all up on that
Flonk: And of course, how could anyone forget the Flying Batmobile
Flonk: coming soon to a Toys "R" Us near you
The Gr8 Machine: It's FLYING. My car is FLYING, you little SHIT.
The Gr8 Machine: Sleep tight, punk. Sleep tight, my ward.
Flonk: Call me crazy, but Batman doesn't call 12 year olds retarded.
The Gr8 Machine: Shut UP. I'm TALKING now. I'll RAPE your mother's CORPSE in the SKULL, you little SNOT.
Flonk: (posts a smiley of a grinning fez)
The Gr8 Machine: Don't give me that SMILING HAT shit. I HAVE ALL the HATS here. LICK my sweaty ASSHOLE. Come HERE so I can SLAP you.
The Gr8 Machine: With my COCK.
Flonk: Please put this on AA
The Gr8 Machine: I'm so HARDCORE, I make my BUTLER do weight training.
The Gr8 Machine: I'm motherfucking ALL STAR BATMAN, ASSCLOWN.
The Gr8 Machine: Oh, this is GOING on AA, FUCKER.
The Gr8 Machine: (smack!)
Flonk: Call him Sexy Abs Alfred(tm)
The Gr8 Machine: I'm going to SLEEP now, BITCH.
The Gr8 Machine: I sleep on a PILE of BROKEN GLASS
The Gr8 Machine: Because I'm HARDCORE
Flonk: Fuck you, you little SHIT. Do you think I wanted to THROW you into my GODDAMN flying CAR
The Gr8 Machine: I'm sending my BUTLER to go and PISS on your dead FATHER.
The Gr8 Machine: I'm making you WATCH the VIDEO in the MORNING.
The Gr8 Machine: I hope you like PUS, because THAT'S what's going on your OATMEAL tomorrow.
Flonk: I'll fuck your dead GRANDMOTHER and the CORPSE will beg for MORE, you little DOUCHENOZZLE
Flonk: *smack*
Flonk: HAHAHAHHA
The Gr8 Machine: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The Gr8 Machine: You fuckin' CARNY.
The Gr8 Machine: TEE HEE HEE
Flonk: Listen FAGGOT. I fucked you in the ASS tonight. I KILLED your FAIRY parents too, BITCH. What are you going to do ABOUT it.
Flonk: HARDE HAR HAR
The Gr8 Machine: I got TIRED of my BITCH so I left her for my SEXY-ASS butler.
The Gr8 Machine: A-HYUK!
Flonk: Fuck YOU kid. I'm GONNA go fuck a PINAPPLE now, cause my dick is SO calloused IT'S the only WAY I can feel ANYTHING.
Flonk: HAW HAW!
The Gr8 Machine: I don't HAVE feelings. FEELINGS are for PUSSIES like you.
The Gr8 Machine: <TITTER>
Flonk: WHAT are you DOING? Crying?! Crying is for LITTLE GIRLS and PRARIE DOGS. Suck on THIS, that'll TOUGHEN you up real QUICK.
Flonk: *breathy Muttly laugh*
The Gr8 Machine: You know that SCENE from AMERICAN PSYCHO where Patrick BATEMAN chews a chicks VAGINA off and drops a CHAINSAW on that OTHER chick's HEAD?
The Gr8 Machine: I did that TWICE today.
The Gr8 Machine: HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE
Flonk: Ever drink the SEMEN of a MOOSE? That's what I have in the MORNING instead of COFFEE
Flonk: AHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA*cough cough* ahhhh
The Gr8 Machine: My favorite DRINK is NAPALM AND PAINT THINNER, STRAIGHT UP.
The Gr8 Machine: HAW!
Flonk: Ever EAT a baby's SCROTUM? I have. It's like MENTOS for ME
Flonk: giggle
The Gr8 Machine: BABY SCROTUM! The FRESHMAKER!
The Gr8 Machine: (and on that note, it's off to bed)
The Gr8 Machine: Sleep tight, punk
Flonk: It'll be your last
Flonk: Psshhh hahahah

thatguylobo
09-14-2005, 11:08 PM
Casue it's too damn good not to post. Here's an IM conversation I just had with my brother...

Flonk: Are you retarded?
The Gr8 Machine: How many CAPITALIZED WORDS do you NEED?
The Gr8 Machine: and what's with that "He just might do" shit?
The Gr8 Machine: it's lookin' more and more like Bruce Wayne put the hit on the Graysons
Flonk: Shirtless Alfred is my favorite part. The guy is ripped
The Gr8 Machine: Seriously
The Gr8 Machine: Vicki was all up on that
Flonk: And of course, how could anyone forget the Flying Batmobile
Flonk: coming soon to a Toys "R" Us near you
The Gr8 Machine: It's FLYING. My car is FLYING, you little SHIT.
The Gr8 Machine: Sleep tight, punk. Sleep tight, my ward.
Flonk: Call me crazy, but Batman doesn't call 12 year olds retarded.
The Gr8 Machine: Shut UP. I'm TALKING now. I'll RAPE your mother's CORPSE in the SKULL, you little SNOT.
Flonk: (posts a smiley of a grinning fez)
The Gr8 Machine: Don't give me that SMILING HAT shit. I HAVE ALL the HATS here. LICK my sweaty ASSHOLE. Come HERE so I can SLAP you.
The Gr8 Machine: With my COCK.
Flonk: Please put this on AA
The Gr8 Machine: I'm so HARDCORE, I make my BUTLER do weight training.
The Gr8 Machine: I'm motherfucking ALL STAR BATMAN, ASSCLOWN.
The Gr8 Machine: Oh, this is GOING on AA, FUCKER.
The Gr8 Machine: (smack!)
Flonk: Call him Sexy Abs Alfred(tm)
The Gr8 Machine: I'm going to SLEEP now, BITCH.
The Gr8 Machine: I sleep on a PILE of BROKEN GLASS
The Gr8 Machine: Because I'm HARDCORE
Flonk: Fuck you, you little SHIT. Do you think I wanted to THROW you into my GODDAMN flying CAR
The Gr8 Machine: I'm sending my BUTLER to go and PISS on your dead FATHER.
The Gr8 Machine: I'm making you WATCH the VIDEO in the MORNING.
The Gr8 Machine: I hope you like PUS, because THAT'S what's going on your OATMEAL tomorrow.
Flonk: I'll fuck your dead GRANDMOTHER and the CORPSE will beg for MORE, you little DOUCHENOZZLE
Flonk: *smack*
Flonk: HAHAHAHHA
The Gr8 Machine: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The Gr8 Machine: You fuckin' CARNY.
The Gr8 Machine: TEE HEE HEE
Flonk: Listen FAGGOT. I fucked you in the ASS tonight. I KILLED your FAIRY parents too, BITCH. What are you going to do ABOUT it.
Flonk: HARDE HAR HAR
The Gr8 Machine: I got TIRED of my BITCH so I left her for my SEXY-ASS butler.
The Gr8 Machine: A-HYUK!
Flonk: Fuck YOU kid. I'm GONNA go fuck a PINAPPLE now, cause my dick is SO calloused IT'S the only WAY I can feel ANYTHING.
Flonk: HAW HAW!
The Gr8 Machine: I don't HAVE feelings. FEELINGS are for PUSSIES like you.
The Gr8 Machine: <TITTER>
Flonk: WHAT are you DOING? Crying?! Crying is for LITTLE GIRLS and PRARIE DOGS. Suck on THIS, that'll TOUGHEN you up real QUICK.
Flonk: *breathy Muttly laugh*
The Gr8 Machine: You know that SCENE from AMERICAN PSYCHO where Patrick BATEMAN chews a chicks VAGINA off and drops a CHAINSAW on that OTHER chick's HEAD?
The Gr8 Machine: I did that TWICE today.
The Gr8 Machine: HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE
Flonk: Ever drink the SEMEN of a MOOSE? That's what I have in the MORNING instead of COFFEE
Flonk: AHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA*cough cough* ahhhh
The Gr8 Machine: My favorite DRINK is NAPALM AND PAINT THINNER, STRAIGHT UP.
The Gr8 Machine: HAW!
Flonk: Ever EAT a baby's SCROTUM? I have. It's like MENTOS for ME
Flonk: giggle
The Gr8 Machine: BABY SCROTUM! The FRESHMAKER!
The Gr8 Machine: (and on that note, it's off to bed)
The Gr8 Machine: Sleep tight, punk
Flonk: It'll be your last
Flonk: Psshhh hahahah


Flonk, I think I want to marry your brother. Can I have your blessings? Cause that was godamn fucking funny.

alan
09-15-2005, 07:46 AM
This was really, really off. But it was definatley Miller.

I'm hoping it's just a one time thing, because I liked #1.

--Alan

Flonk
09-15-2005, 11:34 AM
Flonk, I think I want to marry your brother. Can I have your blessings? Cause that was godamn fucking funny.

He's all yours

bachman
09-15-2005, 11:40 AM
And let me just say that slapping around 12 year olds and calling them "retarded" is fucking awesome in my book. Double awesome when it's Batman doing it.

Lighten up. Go read some old Batman. He used to snap necks, shoot people, and threaten to spank women.

TIP
09-15-2005, 11:43 AM
Eh.

It wasn't nearly as bad as has been advertised in this thread.

T

abuddah
09-15-2005, 12:48 PM
The material that has awarded Miller the title of 'the best Batman writer ever' is The Dark Knight Returns, and Year One. I think that's a given. Dark Knight Returns has many reasons for it's success. A crucial reason is Miller was able to cull certain aspects of the many characterizations of Batman over the 21st century to give us his version of Batman which seemed to stike a cord in the majority of the readers. But this Batman was over the hill and extremely jaded. As a bookend to DKR, Miller gave us his rookie season Batman in Year one. Still a driven man, but less bitter and more optimistic.

So now we're given This All-Star Batman (I'm going to skip DKR2. You know why) and a lot of us are taking issue with it. There's 17 pages of discussion on this thread.

Yes All-Star is out of continuity, but it's supposedly takes place with Bruce a few years into the job. But he seems almost as cold and pessimistic as the 50 year old from Dark Knight Returns. Are we to assume he got this jaded 2-5 years on the job and is able to survive the rest of his career this over the edge? Some have made the argument that it's a Sin City version of Batman. The problem is that really doesn't fit the character or the genre's. Sin City is defined as the most hard boiled stylized noir fiction in comics. A man in a cape and cowl with a child sidekick just doesn't fit into that mentality. They're two different worlds.

I think another issue readers are having is that they've tired of this version of Batman. The cold uncarring prick has been around for a while now and I think people are looking for more of driven Batman who still has a heart. I'd reference the Batman animated series or the 70's Batman as examples. Miller created this trend of making him more cold and callous and it's been ramping up ever since Frank left. Now to have Miller come back and give us a even more hell bent version - many of us are left with a bitter feeling in our mouths. There's no believability that this Batman would ever want to care for a foster son.

This story of the origin of Robin has been done many times over and for many of us, it's been doen so well that we don't want to accept another version. Robin's Reckoning, the two part Batman: The Animated Series won an emmy. It's one of the finest hours of American animation and it deftly plays out the origin of Robin through flashbacks. Dini, timm and company were going to initially show the Grayson's deaths until standards and practices told them no. Instead they played the scene of the reactions of the crown and Dick. It was done beautifully. In the comics, Loeb and Sale interpreted the Robin Origin story extremely well. Is there a real need for it to be told again?

I'm really lost as to Miller's motivations here. All Star was meant for a wider audience, but it seems to be turning more of the readers away.

Generic Poster
09-15-2005, 01:10 PM
Well said, Abuddah.

Kefky
09-15-2005, 01:23 PM
Casue it's too damn good not to post. Here's an IM conversation I just had with my brother...

Flonk: Are you retarded?
The Gr8 Machine: How many CAPITALIZED WORDS do you NEED?
The Gr8 Machine: and what's with that "He just might do" shit?
The Gr8 Machine: it's lookin' more and more like Bruce Wayne put the hit on the Graysons
Flonk: Shirtless Alfred is my favorite part. The guy is ripped
The Gr8 Machine: Seriously
The Gr8 Machine: Vicki was all up on that
Flonk: And of course, how could anyone forget the Flying Batmobile
Flonk: coming soon to a Toys "R" Us near you
The Gr8 Machine: It's FLYING. My car is FLYING, you little SHIT.
The Gr8 Machine: Sleep tight, punk. Sleep tight, my ward.
Flonk: Call me crazy, but Batman doesn't call 12 year olds retarded.
The Gr8 Machine: Shut UP. I'm TALKING now. I'll RAPE your mother's CORPSE in the SKULL, you little SNOT.
Flonk: (posts a smiley of a grinning fez)
The Gr8 Machine: Don't give me that SMILING HAT shit. I HAVE ALL the HATS here. LICK my sweaty ASSHOLE. Come HERE so I can SLAP you.
The Gr8 Machine: With my COCK.
Flonk: Please put this on AA
The Gr8 Machine: I'm so HARDCORE, I make my BUTLER do weight training.
The Gr8 Machine: I'm motherfucking ALL STAR BATMAN, ASSCLOWN.
The Gr8 Machine: Oh, this is GOING on AA, FUCKER.
The Gr8 Machine: (smack!)
Flonk: Call him Sexy Abs Alfred(tm)
The Gr8 Machine: I'm going to SLEEP now, BITCH.
The Gr8 Machine: I sleep on a PILE of BROKEN GLASS
The Gr8 Machine: Because I'm HARDCORE
Flonk: Fuck you, you little SHIT. Do you think I wanted to THROW you into my GODDAMN flying CAR
The Gr8 Machine: I'm sending my BUTLER to go and PISS on your dead FATHER.
The Gr8 Machine: I'm making you WATCH the VIDEO in the MORNING.
The Gr8 Machine: I hope you like PUS, because THAT'S what's going on your OATMEAL tomorrow.
Flonk: I'll fuck your dead GRANDMOTHER and the CORPSE will beg for MORE, you little DOUCHENOZZLE
Flonk: *smack*
Flonk: HAHAHAHHA
The Gr8 Machine: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The Gr8 Machine: You fuckin' CARNY.
The Gr8 Machine: TEE HEE HEE
Flonk: Listen FAGGOT. I fucked you in the ASS tonight. I KILLED your FAIRY parents too, BITCH. What are you going to do ABOUT it.
Flonk: HARDE HAR HAR
The Gr8 Machine: I got TIRED of my BITCH so I left her for my SEXY-ASS butler.
The Gr8 Machine: A-HYUK!
Flonk: Fuck YOU kid. I'm GONNA go fuck a PINAPPLE now, cause my dick is SO calloused IT'S the only WAY I can feel ANYTHING.
Flonk: HAW HAW!
The Gr8 Machine: I don't HAVE feelings. FEELINGS are for PUSSIES like you.
The Gr8 Machine: <TITTER>
Flonk: WHAT are you DOING? Crying?! Crying is for LITTLE GIRLS and PRARIE DOGS. Suck on THIS, that'll TOUGHEN you up real QUICK.
Flonk: *breathy Muttly laugh*
The Gr8 Machine: You know that SCENE from AMERICAN PSYCHO where Patrick BATEMAN chews a chicks VAGINA off and drops a CHAINSAW on that OTHER chick's HEAD?
The Gr8 Machine: I did that TWICE today.
The Gr8 Machine: HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE
Flonk: Ever drink the SEMEN of a MOOSE? That's what I have in the MORNING instead of COFFEE
Flonk: AHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA*cough cough* ahhhh
The Gr8 Machine: My favorite DRINK is NAPALM AND PAINT THINNER, STRAIGHT UP.
The Gr8 Machine: HAW!
Flonk: Ever EAT a baby's SCROTUM? I have. It's like MENTOS for ME
Flonk: giggle
The Gr8 Machine: BABY SCROTUM! The FRESHMAKER!
The Gr8 Machine: (and on that note, it's off to bed)
The Gr8 Machine: Sleep tight, punk
Flonk: It'll be your last
Flonk: Psshhh hahahah

You and your bother, sir, are the two sexiest men alive. I would go gay and have a threesome for you.

Fourthman
09-15-2005, 01:28 PM
And let me just say that slapping around 12 year olds and calling them "retarded" is fucking awesome in my book. Double awesome when it's Batman doing it.

Lighten up. Go read some old Batman. He used to snap necks, shoot people, and threaten to spank women.
I think the main (and more valid) complaint is not that it's a Batman we don't recognize. It's that the book sucks. It's NAMBLA's book of the month.

Kefky
09-15-2005, 01:31 PM
I think the main (and more valid) complaint is not that it's a Batman we don't recognize. It's that the book sucks. It's NAMBLA's book of the month.

He really has a hard time understanding that, doesn't he?

Rod Nunley
09-15-2005, 01:32 PM
I think a lot of you are debating two different issues here. The reason I don't like the book is not because of his interpitation of the characters. I don't have a problem with the way that Miller is treating the characters.

My problem with the book is the writing is bad. Cluncky dialoge that sounds forced and akward. To many people with thought captions saying things that are acctually cringe worthy.

Again. I have no issue with the way characters are being treated...that is open to interpitaion by the writer.

But this issue (even moreso than the last issue) is just written badly.

I will let DC know by not buying this anymore. It's a shame too, cause I am a big fan of Miller and Lee. Sigh.

Kefky
09-15-2005, 01:37 PM
I think a lot of you are debating two different issues here. The reason I don't like the book is not because of his interpitation of the characters. I don't have a problem with the way that Miller is treating the characters.

My problem with the book is the writing is bad. Cluncky dialoge that sounds forced and akward. To many people with thought captions saying things that are acctually cringe worthy.

Again. I have no issue with the way characters are being treated...that is open to interpitaion by the writer.

But this issue (even moreso than the last issue) is just written badly.

I will let DC know by not buying this anymore. It's a shame too, cause I am a big fan of Miller and Lee. Sigh.

You know what's ironic? This books reads a lot like one those awful mid-90's image comics. To think that Miller was writing a book that was the exact opposite of those back then... *sigh*

Rod Nunley
09-15-2005, 01:52 PM
You know what's ironic? This books reads a lot like one those awful mid-90's image comics. To think that Miller was writing a book that was the exact opposite of those back then... *sigh*

Oh yeah, but not an original book, but like some crappy Backlash spinoff book. Just bad, bad writing.

And again, I am a huge Miller fan, so it pains me to say that.

Ben Rosen
09-15-2005, 02:00 PM
Just finished it--and i don't read much dc, or much superhero comics, so maybe this is just an outsiders view or whatever, but that was a damn fun comic. THAT is the batman comic i want to read. I think a lot of people are taking it too seriously, but I enjoyed it so I have no complaints.

Simps
09-15-2005, 02:15 PM
I'm really lost as to Miller's motivations here. All Star was meant for a wider audience, but it seems to be turning more of the readers away.

You realize that you're basing this off of this thread, and not the reaction of non-comic book readers? I gave both issues to my friend who doesn't read comics, but LOVED Batman Begins, saying "This basically picks up a year or 2 after the movie" and he enjoyed the hell out of them. It's DC attempting to capture the market of people who enjoyed Batman Begins by providing a good jumping-on point with their ALL STAR creators. In terms of established Batman creators, I couldn't have picked 2 better people.

Kefky
09-15-2005, 02:20 PM
You realize that you're basing this off of this thread, and not the reaction of non-comic book readers? I gave both issues to my friend who doesn't read comics, but LOVED Batman Begins, saying "This basically picks up a year or 2 after the movie" and he enjoyed the hell out of them. It's DC attempting to capture the market of people who enjoyed Batman Begins by providing a good jumping-on point with their ALL STAR creators. In terms of established Batman creators, I couldn't have picked 2 better people.

Wow, that's really weird 'cause I tought Batman Begins actually MADE SENSE... And the dialogue didn't make me run to the batroom five times in a room. Did they like the way Batman talked like a stupid teenager?

Ben Rosen
09-15-2005, 02:20 PM
You realize that you're basing this off of this thread, and not the reaction of non-comic book readers? I gave both issues to my friend who doesn't read comics, but LOVED Batman Begins, saying "This basically picks up a year or 2 after the movie" and he enjoyed the hell out of them. It's DC attempting to capture the market of people who enjoyed Batman Begins by providing a good jumping-on point with their ALL STAR creators. In terms of established Batman creators, I couldn't have picked 2 better people.

exactly. exactly, exactly, exactly. yes. thank you.

Kefky
09-15-2005, 04:27 PM
I was just re-reading it, and I noticed something.... Batman tries to run over a bunny!


Dude, that is SO hardcore! Batman doesn't care about wildlife!


And he runs over frogs too! Woooooooow! Batman's my hero!

The Human Target
09-15-2005, 04:34 PM
I was just re-reading it, and I noticed something.... Batman tries to run over a bunny!


Dude, that is SO hardcore! Batman doesn't care about wildlife!


And he runs over frogs too! Woooooooow! Batman's my hero!

Fuck it. I'm reading this tomorrow.

I just have to.

ds9
09-15-2005, 08:02 PM
i loved bateman begins. It made up for spiderman 2

Dan
09-16-2005, 12:33 PM
I just wanted to repeat something I said at Millarworld before it went on vacation. This book reminds me almost exactly of Ultimate Adventures, except I liked the art better there. Of course, UA is an underappreciated jem in my book.

Who knew that was going to be the Ultimate book DC was going to imitate?!

Balthazar
09-16-2005, 12:51 PM
Batman never kills and will never kill, even if he as to die for that, it's the first rule for Batman


Since when? 1930s Batman shot crooks in the chest and spanked women in the ass.

Gavin
09-16-2005, 12:53 PM
Since when? 1930s Batman shot crooks in the chest and spanked women in the ass.

Since then he's stopped the killing, but I think the spankings have continuued even after Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Flonk
09-16-2005, 12:54 PM
Since when? 1930s Batman shot crooks in the chest and spanked women in the ass.

Really? When was this? Because it hasn't been mentioned 800 fucking times in this thread.

Kefky
09-16-2005, 12:55 PM
Really? When was this? Because it hasn't been mentioned 800 fucking times in this thread.

AND with Beggar's quote included, mind you.

Olivier E.
09-16-2005, 12:56 PM
Since when? 1930s Batman shot crooks in the chest and spanked women in the ass.

since when is spanking women in the ass bad?

Balthazar
09-16-2005, 12:57 PM
Really? When was this? Because it hasn't been mentioned 800 fucking times in this thread.


Well at least one person needed it mentioned again.

McAfee
09-16-2005, 12:58 PM
Just finished it--and i don't read much dc, or much superhero comics, so maybe this is just an outsiders view or whatever, but that was a damn fun comic. THAT is the batman comic i want to read. I think a lot of people are taking it too seriously, but I enjoyed it so I have no complaints.

I really can't take this seriously (not your statement, the book) because of the dialogue. I couldn't care less about the characterization since this is a new continuity, and I don't even really care that the plot really didn't progress this issue.

But, oh, dear fuck, was that some terrible dialogue. It was terrible dialogue. Terrible. Dialogue. Terrible.

Ben Rosen
09-16-2005, 12:59 PM
I really can't take this seriously (not your statement, the book) because of the dialogue. I couldn't care less about the characterization since this is a new continuity, and I don't even really care that the plot really didn't progress this issue.

But, oh, dear fuck, was that some terrible dialogue. It was terrible dialogue. Terrible. Dialogue. Terrible.

and i completely disagree. what did you feel could be improved? did you feel sin city had bad dialogue?

Flonk
09-16-2005, 01:04 PM
Well at least one person needed it mentioned again.


AND with Beggar's quote included, mind you

But we're getting off the subject. I can and have shit out more entertaining things than All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder.

McAfee
09-16-2005, 01:05 PM
and i completely disagree. what did you feel could be improved? did you feel sin city had bad dialogue?

Read the last paragraph of my above statement. I'm panning his dialogue.

What could be improved? Not putting so much of that shit in there. Maybe the editor should be shot...? Sin City is nowhere near this bad. It's like Miller has a combination of deafness and short-term memory and he's talking to himself through the scripts.

Ben Rosen
09-16-2005, 01:08 PM
Read the last paragraph of my above statement. I'm panning his dialogue.

What could be improved? Not putting so much of that shit in there. Maybe the editor should be shot...? Sin City is nowhere near this bad. It's like Miller has a combination of deafness and short-term memory and he's talking to himself through the scripts.

yeah...i saw that. i wasn't sure if you didn't like miller dialogue in general or just this comic. i guess we just disagree.

Kefky
09-16-2005, 01:08 PM
But we're getting off the subject. I can and have shit out more entertaining things than All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder.

You know, you're quickly becoming my favorite poster in this ugly dump. :heybaby:

Flonk
09-16-2005, 01:10 PM
Read the last paragraph of my above statement. I'm panning his dialogue.

What could be improved? Not putting so much of that shit in there. Maybe the editor should be shot...? Sin City is nowhere near this bad. It's like Miller has a combination of deafness and short-term memory and he's talking to himself through the scripts.


Also, Sin City and Batman are two completely different things. I love Sean McKeever, but if he wrote a Sin City story in the same style of Mary Jane I'd be saying the same thing.

Jake
09-16-2005, 01:10 PM
To me, the best version of Batman over the years has been the animated series. Also I thought they handled him really well in "Batman Begins". But this "All-Star" Batman? Instead of taking everything good about the characters (ala the Ultimate line), they're doing everything BAD.

Balthazar
09-16-2005, 01:11 PM
But we're getting off the subject. I can and have shit out more entertaining things than All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder.


Maybe, but nobody is going to pay $3.00 to take a look at it.

Flonk
09-16-2005, 01:11 PM
You know, you're quickly becoming my favorite poster in this ugly dump. :heybaby:


:heybaby:


(buy my book)

Flonk
09-16-2005, 01:12 PM
Maybe, but nobody is going to pay $3.00 to take a look at it.

:(

I worked real hard on it.


Rate My Poo gave it 8/10

Balthazar
09-16-2005, 01:15 PM
This guy really does a better job of explaining how I feel about AS Batman than I can...


All Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder #2
Review by Sam Moyerman, posted September 15, 2005


DC Comicsí re-imagining of their classic heroes continues, as Frank Miller and Jim Lee continue to tell the tale of Batman and Robin.

This issue picks up right where the last one left off. Dick Grayson now finds himself in the Batmobile, sitting next to the legendary Batman. But is this character all that people think he is? Is he more? Maybe even less? Dick finds all this out as Batman takes him on one hell of a ride, even traveling through some cops intent on running the city the way they want. Meanwhile, Alfred attends to Vicki Valeís injuries from her car accident, as she replays the events in her mind, trying to make some sense of the world with that reporterís mind of hers.

There are inherent problems with hype. It builds up excitement and creates a positive atmosphere, but in the end itís almost impossible to live up to. And there are some people out there that are going to have problems with Millerís writing here. His dialogue is unique in its depiction of Batman and Bruce Wayne. Instead of the Billionaire Playboy Socialite weíre used to, we see a man who has devoted his life to being alone, a man unable to speak to a woman or a small child. Instead of being a man who can put on a show for people, we see an eccentric recluse. Another issue with Millerís dialogue is that it is, at times, very redundant. Vicki Vale uses the term brutal approximately 7 times in 2 pages. I know that sheís supposed to be in shock and crazy, but it feels like overkill. But anyone who focuses on these problems is missing the real book. Because this isnít really a Batman book.

Frank Miller himself has said that this is really his Robin story. He claims that this will be the story that makes everyone love Dick Grayson even more. He even says he fought to make DC include "The Boy Wonder" in the title of the book. And it really shows. This is Dickís story. If this story is read from the point of view of a child who has been traumatized by the murder of his parents, then kidnapped by a man in a bat suit, it comes together a lot better. He even has all the best lines for himself, including one making mention of the fact that Batman adjusts his voice while in the suit.

If you take a look at the last couple Batman stories Miller has written, the one thing that stands out about them is the breakneck pace that he drives his readers on. These books are packed with information and move so quickly. Itís a testament to his storytelling ability. And likewise, it is testament to Jim Lee that he can keep up. Leeís artwork is gorgeous here. As always the man draws an amazing Batman, he draws beautiful women, and his action scenes are the best in the business. He even does his best Frank Miller talking heads pages a few times in the book. And while Miller doesnít always write to show off Leeís overwhelming talent in the way that Jeph Loeb and even Brian Azzarello did, he still gives him plenty of time to let the reader see why heís so good.

Itís interesting that in a book designed to bring Batman back to his roots, we see such a unique vision of him. And while there are going to be complaints, this is one of those books that people really canít afford to miss. After all, this is a Robin story and he hasnít even put the costume on yet.

Olivier E.
09-16-2005, 01:21 PM
Well at least one person needed it mentioned again.

:confused:

I did that post yesterday, why should I have get something eminded, when other people told me the same?

Ben Rosen
09-16-2005, 01:22 PM
This guy really does a better job of explaining how I feel about AS Batman than I can...
I like that. I don't completely agree. For one thing, I can't take any complaint against hype seriously. Just don't buy into the hype. And with the dialogue, I got the sense that Vicki Vale had this combination of being and shock, and trying to remember the story for the paper. She's just repeating the facts she needs to tell the story. Dick Grayson. Age 12. The murders were brutal. I don't know...thats how I read it. But other than that I like.

Olivier E.
09-16-2005, 01:23 PM
Also, Sin City and Batman are two completely different things. I love Sean McKeever, but if he wrote a Sin City story in the same style of Mary Jane I'd be saying the same thing.

but Mckkever's version could have been good, who knows

Balthazar
09-16-2005, 01:24 PM
:confused:

I did that post yesterday, why should I have get something eminded, when other people told me the same?


Jesus fucking christ.

One fucking post about something that was already stated. Enough. Big fucking deal. There is enough fucking bullshit, half-ass, useless posts in this thread, why does my one fucking post, that I made before reading the entire asinine thread to begin with, matter that much?!?

Let it the fuck go people.

Flonk
09-16-2005, 01:30 PM
but Mckkever's version could have been good, who knows

I'm sure it would be. But you write different stories in different styles. McKeever's Mystique had a different style than Sentinal. But Miller's Batman is exactly the same as Sin City. It doesn't work here.

Olivier E.
09-16-2005, 01:38 PM
Jesus fucking christ.

One fucking post about something that was already stated. Enough. Big fucking deal. There is enough fucking bullshit, half-ass, useless posts in this thread, why does my one fucking post, that I made before reading the entire asinine thread to begin with, matter that much?!?

Let it the fuck go people.

Calm down everthing is fine, I just thought you were nitpicking me due to


Originally Posted by Balthazar
Well at least one person needed it mentioned again.



I'm sure it would be. But you write different stories in different styles. McKeever's Mystique had a different style than Sentinal. But Miller's Batman is exactly the same as Sin City. It doesn't work here.

I've only read 2 volumes yet, but I haven't seen a man hitting a woman in it, or an adult mentally abusing a child or dumb plotholes, like killing the parents and kidnapping the kid to kill him in the forest :roll:

Doug
09-19-2005, 06:15 AM
For what it is worth, I really liked ASBARTBW #2. We learn a little more about this new Batman, and we see Dick starting to come into his own.

We see Bruce's internal struggle with devoting his life to the war, and wheather or not he should bring Dick into that life.

I enjoyed it. But that is just me. To each his own.

ds9
09-19-2005, 07:05 AM
For what it is worth, I really liked ASBARTBW #2. We learn a little more about this new Batman, and we see Dick starting to come into his own.

We see Bruce's internal struggle with devoting his life to the war, and wheather or not he should bring Dick into that life.

I enjoyed it. But that is just me. To each his own.There are plenty of us who loved the book.

Flonk
09-19-2005, 07:07 AM
There are plenty of us who loved the book.


Why did you like the book? The wole issue took place inside the Batmobile. Nothing happened at all.

ds9
09-19-2005, 07:09 AM
Why did you like the book? The wole issue took place inside the Batmobile. Nothing happened at all.Im a sucker for Millers version of Batman and I love the flying batmobile.

Flonk
09-19-2005, 07:13 AM
Im a sucker for Millers version of Batman and I love the flying batmobile.


Fair enough.


For me, it's officaly fallen into the so bad it's good category. I have to that my friend here for that.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/EdmundOG/untitled.jpg
Fuck you, RETARD


Right back atcha, big guy!

ds9
09-19-2005, 07:15 AM
Fair enough.


For me, it's officaly fallen into the so bad it's good category. I have to that my friend here for that.





Right back atcha, big guy!Now if issue 3 on is slow like this I will slam this book hard like i do other books that are victims of decompression.

King of Mars
09-19-2005, 12:01 PM
Perhaps my perception of the story was skewed by the great art...but I enjoyed it. Sure, this is a radical interpretation of Batman but so was Dark Knight Returns when it came out. I think that, for the most part, Miller has done a good job of adding a new piece to the puzzle that is this complicated hero.

As people have mentioned, the Batman did initially have a firearm and a willingness to use it. Sure, it goes against the instincts of the character to kill in cold blood but we're not sure he actually did that. The cops may not have actually died (could be just Robin's perception of the events) and, even if they did, it's not clear if Batman intended to kill them (all he did was execute an evasive maneuver). People seem convinced that Miller is trying to turn Batman into the Bat-Punisher or something but I haven't seen enough to make that sort of determination.

As for his treatment of Robin...it was established in issue one that Batman had psychologically profiled the kid. If he had determined that a grief stricken Robin would respond better to being pushed/frightened rather than being coddled, it doesn't seem crazy or "out of character" for him to take such a tough approach. Yeah, it's kinda weird to have a Batman that seems so rough and unpolished but this is a Batman who hadn't yet perfected his scary guy routine. I think that's made obvious by Dick's comment about Batman doing a "bad Clint Eastwood impression". He talks like a hood because he hasn't yet perfected his scare tactics or established the sort of rep that can speak for him.

And as for the flying Batmobile...well, if this is supposed to be in continuity or "non-contnuity", creating a flying Batmobile tosses that concept out the window but, if you think of this as sort of an "Ultimate Batman" (which I do), it shouldn't be a problem. He's always had access to crazy, advanced tech and, if fuckin' S.H.I.E.L.D. can have a flying car, so can Batman.:)

ds9
09-19-2005, 12:06 PM
Perhaps my perception of the story was skewed by the great art...but I enjoyed it. Sure, this is a radical interpretation of Batman but so was Dark Knight Returns when it came out. I think that, for the most part, Miller has done a good job of adding a new piece to the puzzle that is this complicated hero.

As people have mentioned, the Batman did initially have a firearm and a willingness to use it. Sure, it goes against the instincts of the character to kill in cold blood but we're not sure he actually did that. The cops may not have actually died (could be just Robin's perception of the events) and, even if they did, it's not clear if Batman intended to kill them (all he did was execute an evasive maneuver). People seem convinced that Miller is trying to turn Batman into the Bat-Punisher or something but I haven't seen enough to make that sort of determination.

As for his treatment of Robin...it was established in issue one that Batman had psychologically profiled the kid. If he had determined that a grief stricken Robin would respond better to being pushed/frightened rather than being coddled, it doesn't seem crazy or "out of character" for him to take such a tough approach. Yeah, it's kinda weird to have a Batman that seems so rough and unpolished but this is a Batman who hadn't yet perfected his scary guy routine. I think that's made obvious by Dick's comment about Batman doing a "bad Clint Eastwood impression". He talks like a hood because he hasn't yet perfected his scare tactics or established the sort of rep that can speak for him.

And as for the flying Batmobile...well, if this is supposed to be in continuity or "non-contnuity", creating a flying Batmobile tosses that concept out the window but, if you think of this as sort of an "Ultimate Batman" (which I do), it shouldn't be a problem. He's always had access to crazy, advanced tech and, if fuckin' S.H.I.E.L.D. can have a flying car, so can Batman.:)Exactly fanboys kiss my :moon:

Joshzilla
09-19-2005, 12:14 PM
Exactly fanboys kiss my :moon:

Word

Simps
09-19-2005, 12:14 PM
Also, are people reading Batman's internal dialouge, or are they just skipping to the parts that support their argument? If you actually read Batman's thoughts, his motivations are completely explained.

Smokinblues
09-19-2005, 12:16 PM
Also, are people reading Batman's internal dialouge, or are they just skipping to the parts that support their argument? If you actually read Batman's thoughts, his motivations are completely explained.

dude - do you know how much i hate agreeing with ben target? it's painful.

but the comic is just flat out bad.

ds9
09-19-2005, 12:20 PM
dude - do you know how much i hate agreeing with ben target? it's painful.

but the comic is just flat out bad.bullshit

Smokinblues
09-19-2005, 12:21 PM
bullshit

it would be better if it were marvel

ds9
09-19-2005, 12:24 PM
it would be better if it were marvelthen u would call the same type writing great.

Smokinblues
09-19-2005, 12:26 PM
then u would call the same type writing great.

well, if it were marvel then it would be great

King of Mars
09-19-2005, 12:44 PM
Still, his plan to be a complete whacko was pretty damn silly. If Dick wasn't totally terrified of Bruce, isn't that a sign that the little fucker is tougher than he thought?I think the plan is to keep Dick on edge so that he remains focused on helping with the mission rather than grieving for his parents. Batman isn't looking to instill paralyzing fear in the kid, he's trying to bring out the traits that will make him a crimefighting asset. He's maintaining the rough approach because he expects Dick to respond well to it.

RebootedCorpse
09-19-2005, 12:50 PM
So wrong!
Everyone knows Robin is a fucktard.

DonFanucci
09-19-2005, 12:51 PM
So wrong!
Everyone knows Robin is a fucktard.

No way! Miller is a fucktard.

ds9
09-19-2005, 03:03 PM
well, if it were marvel then it would be greatit would be 6 issues of bruce wayne sitting on his ass in a fucking basement while a group talks about what batman means to gotham. Crap

d.j.
09-19-2005, 03:13 PM
I wasn't impressed with the first issue, but I had to pick 2 up after reading this thread! I just couldn't resist, even though I don't have enough money to buy all the books I really LIKE, which makes no sense. Anyway, after reading it, it's not horrible. It's weird, but so, in my opinion, is DKR. It's a thug Batman, but, like many have pointed out, his internal dialogue explains so much of it... I thought his laughing was out of character, but this book is out of its mind. I can almost see how this Robin could grow up to be the one in DKSA, actually. I mean, if Batman was THAT crazy-ass rough on him... makes a little sense. Kind of.

I think the book's on crack, but it's entertaining.

Flonk
09-19-2005, 03:32 PM
I think the book's on crack, but it's entertaining.

It's entertaining, that's for sure. But not for the reasons they wanted it to be. ;)

d.j.
09-19-2005, 04:10 PM
True, Flonk. I think someone was thinking this book would be "quality." Instead, it's a very readable near-trainwreck. I might stick around to see where it goes... I do wish it was better, though. Just like I really wanted DKSA to be worthy of DKR. Still, I really did enjoy issue 2 in some perverse way.

xyzzy
09-19-2005, 04:21 PM
Wasn't there some part of Batman's internal dialog where he basically says that he's going to try and stop Grayson from going through the grieving process? To me, that's not someone who's interested in Grayon's well being.

Blake Sims
09-19-2005, 04:29 PM
I liked it

King of Mars
09-19-2005, 05:03 PM
Wasn't there some part of Batman's internal dialog where he basically says that he's going to try and stop Grayson from going through the grieving process? To me, that's not someone who's interested in Grayon's well being.Really, it makes sense that Batman wouldn't be all that concerned with Dick's well being. He's concerned primarily with "the mission" and, if you look at most of the post-DKR Batman books, the behavior he shows in ASB&R is fairly consistent with the behavior he shows in a lot of those stories. I think that's why there's always been an undercurrent of resentment between him and other heroes.

S!
10-01-2005, 06:39 AM
i just read all star bats #2. now i know what everyone was on about. This is definitly not a batman i like.

ds9
10-01-2005, 06:47 AM
i just read all star bats #2. now i know what everyone was on about. This is definitly not a batman i like.I like him alot.

S!
10-01-2005, 06:52 AM
I like him alot.
please tell me that you are kidding. This Batman acts like a complete asshole.

ds9
10-01-2005, 06:58 AM
please tell me that you are kidding. This Batman acts like a complete asshole.Thats how miller writes him. This is just a take on batman and not the only take.

S!
10-01-2005, 06:59 AM
Thats how miller writes him. This is just a take on batman and not the only take.
I guess this version of batman took me by suprise

BURKE
10-01-2005, 08:14 AM
After reading all of the naysaying and bitching about this book, i finally got to read it. People were bitching about batman smacking robin, and about batman asking robin if he is retarded. On my first read of the book i knew exactly what was going on, why batman was being an ass, and the sad thing is, so did robin. He caught on from the begining that batman was using a fake voice to help scare him. I am sick of the robotic batman that a lot of writers have driven into the ground over the past years. I want a pissed off, dark as hell, mean as a fucking snake batman that will get the damn job done. If that isnt the batman that you dig, so be it, but dont bitch about something if you dont understand what is going on, and if you know whats going on and just dont like it, then dont read the damn book. Trust me, you wont be hurting the sales enough to make a difference. I love the damn book and cant wait for #3.

joeAR
10-01-2005, 08:15 AM
After reading all of the naysaying and bitching about this book, i finally got to read it. People were bitching about batman smacking robin, and about batman asking robin if he is retarded. On my first read of the book i knew exactly what was going on, why batman was being an ass, and the sad thing is, so did robin. He caught on from the begining that batman was using a fake voice to help scare him. I am sick of the robotic batman that a lot of writers have driven into the ground over the past years. I want a pissed off, dark as hell, mean as a fucking snake batman that will get the damn job done. If that isnt the batman that you dig, so be it, but dont bitch about something if you dont understand what is going on, and if you know whats going on and just dont like it, then dont read the damn book. Trust me, you wont be hurting the sales enough to make a difference. I love the damn book and cant wait for #3.


I agree with everything you just said.

Kefky
10-01-2005, 09:09 AM
Wow, a thread I started is 25 pages long! That's awesome!

A.Huerta
10-01-2005, 09:55 AM
It was just too slow for me. I think dialogue and pacing like that only works in the movies... this ish was boring. :surrend:

TheKraken
10-01-2005, 10:45 AM
After reading all of the naysaying and bitching about this book, i finally got to read it. People were bitching about batman smacking robin, and about batman asking robin if he is retarded. On my first read of the book i knew exactly what was going on, why batman was being an ass, and the sad thing is, so did robin. He caught on from the begining that batman was using a fake voice to help scare him. I am sick of the robotic batman that a lot of writers have driven into the ground over the past years. I want a pissed off, dark as hell, mean as a fucking snake batman that will get the damn job done. If that isnt the batman that you dig, so be it, but dont bitch about something if you dont understand what is going on, and if you know whats going on and just dont like it, then dont read the damn book. Trust me, you wont be hurting the sales enough to make a difference. I love the damn book and cant wait for #3.

That's all well and good, but this book (especially issue 2) reads more like a parody of a "dark, mad as hell" Batman than the real thing. As did DK2, Frank's Batman/Spawn crossover, and even Dark Knight Returns if you really read it. I've been thinking about this alot since I read #2. The only book he's ever written where Batman isn't ridiculously over the top is Year One. Dark Knight, its sequel, and this book are so ridiculous that you can't take them seriously. That's not "dark." It may be entertaining, but it ain't dark. And I think that's the point. Frank makes it so deleriously over the top because it's fun. It's dark comedy to him. "Here's a cat who dresses up in tights and beats the shit out of people because his parents were murdered. He's crazy! Let's see just how crazy I can make him..." That's how it reads to me. Alot of people think he's writing crap on purpose to fuck with the fans or DC or something. Some people think he's writing a gritty, Sin City-style Batman. I think he's just having a great time writing a crazy guy being crazy.

Hood
10-01-2005, 11:00 AM
i don't like it cause it's too corny, that's it for my opinion