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View Full Version : Bad news for Byrne fans



artimoff
08-23-2005, 10:15 AM
It's about 2/3rds the way down.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13)


It's too bad. It seems that he and Gail are leaving Action. I guess I will be too.

And Blood of the Demon ends at 18? That totally sucks. I liked the Angelisation of Jason Blood.

Jonny Z
08-23-2005, 10:17 AM
shouln't that be singular?

artimoff
08-23-2005, 10:20 AM
shouln't that be singular?

You need to separate the man from his work.

Ray G.
08-23-2005, 10:24 AM
I just pray this doesn't mean Gail is going to Marvel. DC needs to give her whatever she wants to keep her at DC. She's getting better and better by the issue.

sonnylarue
08-23-2005, 10:24 AM
funny, wish I knew that before last night , when I interviewed will pfiefer about his "scripting" the byrne plots

Doug
08-23-2005, 10:26 AM
I've liked both Action and Demon. It's a bummer. I'm only reading Action because of the creative team, but Demon I just really like the character so I'll read a Demon book by whoever is doing it.

artimoff
08-23-2005, 10:31 AM
Doom Patrol ends with #18 too.

I remember in the 80's when DP was going to be shut down with #18, they gave it a chance with a new writer: Grant Morrison. Why the fel the need to cancel a title instead of trying to save it I'll never know.

Chinaski
08-23-2005, 10:34 AM
Im sad to see them both leave Action. The last issue, with Dr Psycho and Black Adam was just freaking awesome, and Byrnes art with Nelson inking it hasnt looked this good since the Terry Austin days.

Jonny Z
08-23-2005, 10:38 AM
You need to separate the man from his work.

it's funnier when i don't.

Generic Poster
08-23-2005, 10:48 AM
Blood of the Demon is on issue 6 right now. I can't imagine that they would decide to cancel it 12 issues in advance. Seems like sales would either be bad enough to cancel it now, or you'd wait until later to decide.

In other words, I call bullshit on that one.

kasdan
08-23-2005, 10:55 AM
Blood of the Demon is on issue 6 right now. I can't imagine that they would decide to cancel it 12 issues in advance. Seems like sales would either be bad enough to cancel it now, or you'd wait until later to decide.

In other words, I call bullshit on that one.
Unless they committed to Byrne ahead of time to do at least 18 issues of each regardless of sales but all issues past 18 for both DP and BotD were contingent on a certain sales number.

Raphael J
08-23-2005, 10:56 AM
You need to separate the man from his work.

No he doesn't. Why should anyone?

Generic Poster
08-23-2005, 10:57 AM
Unless they committed to Byrne ahead of time to do at least 18 issues of each regardless of sales but all issues past 18 for both DP and BotD were contingent on a certain sales number.

Even if this is the case, I think you would wait until you got closer to 18 to make your cancellation decision. Sales could quintuple on Blood of the Demon between issues 6 and 18.

kasdan
08-23-2005, 11:01 AM
Even if this is the case, I think you would wait until you got closer to 18 to make your cancellation decision. Sales could quintuple on Blood of the Demon between issues 6 and 18.
Maybe that's exactly why the statement was made, an indirect subtle call to arms. Sales now might be in the danger zone of cancelation, but if people start buying more now the series might get an extension obviously.

Generic Poster
08-23-2005, 11:03 AM
Maybe that's exactly why the statement was made, an indirect subtle call to arms. Sales now might be in the danger zone of cancelation, but if people start buying more now the series might get an extension obviously.

An announcement that the book is "in danger of cancellation" might do this, an announcement that it "has been cancelled" is a death sentence - no one new will start picking it up, and lots of people will drop it since its being cancelled anyway.

kasdan
08-23-2005, 11:05 AM
An announcement that the book is "in danger of cancellation" might do this, an announcement that it "has been cancelled" is a death sentence - no one new will start picking it up, and lots of people will drop it since its being cancelled anyway.
I like Byrne...but given his tactics, I'm sure he's more interested in his fans revolting on his behalf rather than looking for "sympathy sales".

Ray G.
08-23-2005, 11:08 AM
No he doesn't. Why should anyone?

Because some douchebags can be very talented.

Artie Pink
08-23-2005, 11:12 AM
The collector in me has everything Byrne's done (though I haven't really enjoyed any of it since '91 or so), so I'm glad to see Demon & Doom Patrol end - I thought they were pretty boring.

But I was liking Gail & Byrne's work on Action. That's too bad.

greg donovan
08-23-2005, 11:15 AM
You need to separate the man from his work.


i do. and you know what? i still dont like it.

even the "awesome" wolverine/hulk fight w/wendigow did nothing for me.

kasdan
08-23-2005, 11:22 AM
The collector in me has everything Byrne's done (though I haven't really enjoyed any of it since '91 or so),
Not even Batman/Superman Generations or Batman/Captain America or Darkseid/Galactus or New Gods/Jack Kirby's Fourth World? None of them?

J.D. Lombardi
08-23-2005, 11:33 AM
You need to separate the man from his work.

I do...and his art was horrendous on most of his recent stuff. I came to find that Austin is who I ended up liking. Byrne/Austin? That is where the talent is...whatever was on that early Doom Patrol and this new Demon just looked like unfinished scribbles.

Like his old pal Claremont, the times have past these men by and they're looking more like Jordan on the Wizards than Michael in his prime on the Bulls.

Artie Pink
08-23-2005, 11:34 AM
Not even Batman/Superman Generations or Batman/Captain America or Darkseid/Galactus or New Gods/Jack Kirby's Fourth World? None of them?

Eh, here and there. I thought Batman/Cap was a lotta fun, actually.

Superman/Batman Generations was like a women & children hating snuff film, though!

I appreciated Byrne's attention to detail on the Kirby stuff (and even the various era's of Generations). Darkseid/Galactus is probably worth another look, one of these days.

Artie Pink
08-23-2005, 11:39 AM
Austin's lost a lot of what made him great, too.

But compare Byrne's current work to George Perez. Perez still pours everything and more into his work. No shortcuts, no same-panels-every-issue - Byrne should really just stick to pencils on one book and really reinvent himself.

Fourthman
08-23-2005, 11:43 AM
Bad news for Byrne fans - you're Byrne fans.

Generic Poster
08-23-2005, 11:47 AM
I do...and his art was horrendous on most of his recent stuff. I came to find that Austin is who I ended up liking. Byrne/Austin? That is where the talent is...whatever was on that early Doom Patrol and this new Demon just looked like unfinished scribbles.




Really? I didn't get any Doom Patrol, but I think BoTD is fucking incredible looking. Different strokes I guess.

Generic Poster
08-23-2005, 11:49 AM
Austin's lost a lot of what made him great, too.

But compare Byrne's current work to George Perez. Perez still pours everything and more into his work. No shortcuts, no same-panels-every-issue - Byrne should really just stick to pencils on one book and really reinvent himself.

I'm no huge Byrne defender, but if you have a chance, check out the pencil scans for the Demon over at his site. I think its hard to apply the typical (and often justified) Byrne criticisms to it (sketchy/no backgrounds/all characters look the same/same poses etc.)

kasdan
08-23-2005, 11:52 AM
Austin's lost a lot of what made him great, too.

But compare Byrne's current work to George Perez. Perez still pours everything and more into his work. No shortcuts, no same-panels-every-issue - Byrne should really just stick to pencils on one book and really reinvent himself.
See...I don't really care for Perez at all. In the 80's his work was fantastic...but today it just looks too clean and polished. It's got detail...but no soul. It's sad when a George Perez clone like Phil Jiminez can take Perez's own style from the 80's and produce it at the Nth power and blow Perez out of the water.

Chinaski
08-23-2005, 11:54 AM
Im sure this is a long shot pipe dream, but maybe with all this work ending around the same time, and perhaps not too many doors left open or characters left to explore, Byrne might be tempted to dust off the "Next Men" and continue on with that storyline. I was a huge fan of that book way back when, and have always held out hope that he would go back.

Hell, Id like to see more Danger Unlimited / Torch of Liberty too while he's at it.

Chinaski
08-23-2005, 11:57 AM
See...I don't really care for Perez at all. In the 80's his work was fantastic...but today it just looks too clean and polished. It's got detail...but no soul. It's sad when a George Perez clone like Phil Jiminez can take Perez's own style from the 80's and produce it at the Nth power and blow Perez out of the water.


Thats not fair calling Phil Jiminez a clone of George Perez, thats like calling Hitch an Alan Davis clone or Finch a Mark Silvestri clone. Phil Jiminez is a pretty damn good talent, plus he turns out consistent beautiful work. If youre going to emulate someone work, at least pick someone who is a classic, like Perez.

kasdan
08-23-2005, 12:02 PM
Im sure this is a long shot pipe dream, but maybe with all this work ending around the same time, and perhaps not too many doors left open or characters left to explore, Byrne might be tempted to dust off the "Next Men" and continue on with that storyline. I was a huge fan of that book way back when, and have always held out hope that he would go back.

Hell, Id like to see more Danger Unlimited / Torch of Liberty too while he's at it.
...

Wow...I hadn't considered that, but I would love to see it.

I know he said that what he had planned for the Next Men would necessity and name change for the series (and from the dinosaur art image he had teased with I assumed it would be First Men) but this might actually be the perfect time for him to do something like this. Not to mention Danger Unlimited or Torch of Liberty.

The only thing is that I think Byrne's own ego might prevent revisiting these. Low sales on Doom Patrol or Demon or the New Gods can be explained as low interest in the characters. Low sales on his creator own projects would place all blame squarely on his shoulders...and I think that is a weight he is unwilling to bear. But I'll cross my fingers anyway.

kasdan
08-23-2005, 12:05 PM
Thats not fair calling Phil Jiminez a clone of George Perez, thats like calling Hitch an Alan Davis clone or Finch a Mark Silvestri clone. Phil Jiminez is a pretty damn good talent, plus he turns out consistent beautiful work. If youre going to emulate someone work, at least pick someone who is a classic, like Perez.
Oh I totally agree...and it wasn't a slight at Jiminez whatsoever. I love his work and have loved it since I first saw it in the Invisibles. But the relation to Perez work is undeniable and that is why I said clone. Hitch was very much a Davis clone too...but he's evolved that style to a point that you can't really say that any longer. Jiminez I think has strayed a lot less from his original emulation source though because the comparisons can still be easily made.

Artie Pink
08-23-2005, 12:09 PM
I'm no huge Byrne defender, but if you have a chance, check out the pencil scans for the Demon over at his site. I think its hard to apply the typical (and often justified) Byrne criticisms to it (sketchy/no backgrounds/all characters look the same/same poses etc.)

You're right - Demon has been a good lookin' book.

Chinaski
08-23-2005, 12:09 PM
...

Wow...I hadn't considered that, but I would love to see it.

I know he said that what he had planned for the Next Men would necessity and name change for the series (and from the dinosaur art image he had teased with I assumed it would be First Men) but this might actually be the perfect time for him to do something like this. Not to mention Danger Unlimited or Torch of Liberty.

The only thing is that I think Byrne's own ego might prevent revisiting these. Low sales on Doom Patrol or Demon or the New Gods can be explained as low interest in the characters. Low sales on his creator own projects would place all blame squarely on his shoulders...and I think that is a weight he is unwilling to bear. But I'll cross my fingers anyway.


You know, I hadnt really considered your last point, but I can totally see that as being the case. Im not a Byrne sympathizer, but I do remember all the great work he did in the 80s and early 90s and just hope that he can somehow recapture it on a project. Because when that man is on, he is GOLD, no kidding. But he is such an ego maniac that I can see him not wanting to risk his creations being a failure for what that would mean about him.

That sucks that it is probably the case. I loved Next Men and believed him when he said they would be back soon.

Chinaski
08-23-2005, 12:12 PM
Oh I totally agree...and it wasn't a slight at Jiminez whatsoever. I love his work and have loved it since I first saw it in the Invisibles. But the relation to Perez work is undeniable and that is why I said clone. Hitch was very much a Davis clone too...but he's evolved that style to a point that you can't really say that any longer. Jiminez I think has strayed a lot less from his original emulation source though because the comparisons can still be easily made.



Yea, you can totally see the Perez influence in Jiminez' art work and style, but he doesnt seem to bite or rip off Perez, just emulate his style, if that makes sense, so I give him a pass. Also because his stuff is just so georgous to look at why would you want to bag on it, right, lol.

Every week I am this close to buying "the other world" just for his art, but for all his artistic ability, the man can just not write anything captivating or interesting. Donna Troy is just a chore to get thru.

kasdan
08-23-2005, 12:15 PM
You know, I hadnt really considered your last point, but I can totally see that as being the case. Im not a Byrne sympathizer, but I do remember all the great work he did in the 80s and early 90s and just hope that he can somehow recapture it on a project. Because when that man is on, he is GOLD, no kidding. But he is such an ego maniac that I can see him not wanting to risk his creations being a failure for what that would mean about him.

That sucks that it is probably the case. I loved Next Men and believed him when he said they would be back soon.
Yeah...I only say it because I've read interviews with him where he said he would never do FF again because his run is considered one of the greats by many and that he would basically be competing with and be compared to his legendary run. His reasoning behind stopping Next Men was also the "sales climate" of the industry at the time which I've always translated as "the book wasn't selling high enough" and it might make him look bad if it continued that way.

I do agree with the reinvention. I think he should step away from the message board for a bit and release 2-4 series and minis revisiting his creator owned books and possibly even a new title or two.

BronxRonin
08-23-2005, 12:18 PM
damn...

kasdan
08-23-2005, 12:18 PM
Yea, you can totally see the Perez influence in Jiminez' art work and style, but he doesnt seem to bite or rip off Perez, just emulate his style, if that makes sense, so I give him a pass. Also because his stuff is just so georgous to look at why would you want to bag on it, right, lol.

Every week I am this close to buying "the other world" just for his art, but for all his artistic ability, the man can just not write anything captivating or interesting. Donna Troy is just a chore to get thru.
Yes...I don't see Jiminez as biting or ripping off Perez at all...only that the Jiminez apple doesn't fall far from the Perez style tree. I think his work is gorgeous and I am in the exact same boat as you regarding Other World. I bought the first issue and immediately decided that I would just buy the collection so I could look at the art because the characterization and "story" were laughably forced.

kasdan
08-23-2005, 12:20 PM
Yeah...I only say it because I've read interviews with him where he said he would never do FF again because his run is considered one of the greats by many and that he would basically be competing with and be compared to his legendary run. His reasoning behind stopping Next Men was also the "sales climate" of the industry at the time which I've always translated as "the book wasn't selling high enough" and it might make him look bad if it continued that way.

I do agree with the reinvention. I think he should step away from the message board for a bit and release 2-4 series and minis revisiting his creator owned books and possibly even a new title or two.
Actually something I just thought of that might shed some light on what he might do is his reaction to the failure of Lab Rats. Does anyone recall what he had to say to that series cancellation? I seem to remember him placing blame somewhere besides himself (maybe at the feet of readers not giving something without costumes and powers a chance or something) but I can't say for sure. Does anyone remember Byrne's reaction?