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View Full Version : Oh boy, now she's done it: "It's better to be skinny than fat."



Morrison_Lad
04-23-2012, 09:50 AM
Last week at a models panel in England, Natalia Vodianova said, "C'mon guys. We all know it's better to be skinny than fat."

This was part of a larger discussion between Lily Cole, Eva Herzigova, and Vodianova about physiques, cultural differences in what's thought of as beautiful, and more. But of course, the line that stands out and causes all the yelling and outrage is Vodianova's.

And as a middle-aged man who's rounder around the middle than I used to be, and than I would like to be, my first reaction was, "Yeah. Obviously." But there seems to be some sort of monster outrage at various sites over what seems to me to be a fairly non-controversial comment.

It seems obvious to me. Is it just me?

Corrina
04-23-2012, 09:53 AM
It depends how one defines "skinny" and "fat." And supermodels talking about skinny are probably going to not be well-heard by normal-looking women.

It's healthier in general but too skinny is bad--witness my mother, who has a thyroid issue and can't gain weight. When she came down with diabetes, it was so hard for her to gain weight and avoid sugar & carbs. She's super-model thin and always has been. Whereas some size 8-12 women are perfectly healthy.

It is not good to be carrying extra weight and fat from a health-standpoint. But often this question is accessed not from the health side but from the looks side.

Dreg
04-23-2012, 09:57 AM
If she's talking about how society reacts to a woman, I would agree, although the degree that it matters and with whom can vary pretty wildly. It's not a truth I believe is justified, but it's there.

If she's talking about health-related issues, I would disagree. Being thin is not iron-clad evidence of being healthy. high-blood pressure and high cholesterol can also exist in thin people and be even more deadly.

zemo
04-23-2012, 10:00 AM
It all depends on culture and biology. I am in India right now, and I have seen advertisements promising skinny women to help getting rid of those pokey bones and put on some weight. The whole skinny and dieting stuff is a fad, it has been hyped, and it's a solely cultural thing.

Now if you look at it biologically, then a certain amount of fat is actually an evolutionary advantage. Apart from storage for bad times, it's also a cushion for those hard cave floors, and it even offers protection, to a degree where gladiators used to have a special diet to put on a good amount of fat that would protect them from cutting weapons.

Being skinny is only better because the Western cultures have, for now, established that someone who is fat is lazy, stupid, and unattractive. I'd rather prefer minds changed, and not bodies.

Morrison_Lad
04-23-2012, 10:03 AM
I would argue that almost all women sizes 8-12 are perfectly healthy, at least as far as their weight is concerned. Size 12 isn't very big, at least the way they measure the sizes these days.

But of course it depends on the definition, and the extent. And as I said, this was in a larger context. I'm trying to find an actual transcript, because the couple places I read about it just cherry picked "choice" quotes to make the models look conceited or controversial. Vodianova was talking about obesity as a problem in England, with parents being accused of child abuse when their children were obese, and the like. And that's when she said what she did.

Granted, coming from a super-model, that's why it's controversial. But apparently earlier in the panel, Lily Cole said something along the lines of how they (models) accept that they had been gifted with genetics, that they essentially "had it easy" given their genetics and metabolisms. I suppose that that could also come off as ... aloof? But it wouldn't be any different than Miguel Cabrera saying something like, "Hey, I was born with a strong body and great hand-eye co-ordination."

It's just true.

Anyways, I really need to find a transcript or video. Because it's clear, to anyone who knows anything about Vodianova who's run half-marathons, given birth (I think) three times, etc., that she isn't unhealthy. She's just "skinny."

Karen El
04-23-2012, 10:09 AM
If she's talking about how society reacts to a woman, I would agree, although the degree that it matters and with whom can vary pretty wildly. It's not a truth I believe is justified, but it's there.

If she's talking about health-related issues, I would disagree. Being thin is not iron-clad evidence of being healthy. high-blood pressure and high cholesterol can also exist in thin people and be even more deadly.

Particularly when you are talking model-thin. That's what is known medically as dangerously underweight. When already thin models get their bodies airbrushed even thinner to look more 'glamorous' there's nothing healthy about aspiring to their body type.

And claiming that it is in some way 'better' just encourages girls to hate their shape, even if they are naturally ectomorph. The majority of women don't have careers that revolve around keeping their bodies 'perfect'.

Morrison_Lad
04-23-2012, 10:12 AM
Being skinny is only better because the Western cultures have, for now, established that someone who is fat is lazy, stupid, and unattractive. I'd rather prefer minds changed, and not bodies.

When Vodianova said "skinny" I think she meant slightly underweight. I hardly think that someone who has dealt with anorexia in the past would be saying that everyone should have an eating disorder.

Anyways, it's interesting. I live in the US, obviously. And when I travelled to Europe a couple times (Rome, Florence, Paris, etc.), the difference was amazing. You can walk up and down and all over Paris, at least in my experience, and most of the people are about normal weight, or thinner. It's not that way here in the US at all. It was really rare to come across someone who was obese in say Rome or Paris. But walk down the street in any city in the US -- and yes, that even includes L.A. -- and it's not rare at all. Almost every single obese person I saw in Paris had a camera around his or her neck and was looking at a map.

So, it's definitely cultural. But I don't think it's just a Western vs. other cultures thing.

Morrison_Lad
04-23-2012, 10:17 AM
Particularly when you are talking model-thin. That's what is known medically as dangerously underweight. When already thin models get their bodies airbrushed even thinner to look more 'glamorous' there's nothing healthy about aspiring to their body type.

And claiming that it is in some way 'better' just encourages girls to hate their shape, even if they are naturally ectomorph. The majority of women don't have careers that revolve around keeping their bodies 'perfect'.

Yeah, but on the other hand, look at Victoria Beckham. The woman is way thinner than most runway models. WAY thinner. But she's given birth to four kids, walks the cities of the world in 5" stilettos -- I mean, how unhealthy can she actually be? Most people have problems walking a block in the sorts of shoes she wears, yet she spends all day shopping, walking around, carrying a baby.

She can't be that unhealthy.

Note: I'm not saying that people should aspire to look like Posh. She is ridiculously thin. Though, to be honest, she's so often dressed so chic, it doesn't take away from the way she looks. But that might be just me.

Morrison_Lad
04-23-2012, 10:54 AM
OK, found this:


"The only diet I have ever done is the blood type diet - I have done it for five years now," said Vodianova. "The big contracts go to the girls who are healthy - they need to have a sparkle in their eyes and you can't fake that if you're unhealthy."

"I run once a year - I do the marathon for my charity," she added. "I don't train, I just make sure my children are the other side of the finishing line so I won't give up. But I change my mind with these things, once I did yoga every day for a whole year. When the year came to an end I was very happy to stop."

Wow. A "Blood type diet?!" I am going to have to search about this.

AthenAltena
04-23-2012, 10:59 AM
Particularly when you are talking model-thin. That's what is known medically as dangerously underweight. When already thin models get their bodies airbrushed even thinner to look more 'glamorous' there's nothing healthy about aspiring to their body type.

And claiming that it is in some way 'better' just encourages girls to hate their shape, even if they are naturally ectomorph. The majority of women don't have careers that revolve around keeping their bodies 'perfect'.

Not to mention that a lot of women who are model thin and aren't so naturally don't have normal menstrual cycles, if they get them at all. When you get to that point you're in serious trouble since your body will shut it off and essentially start reverting to childhood. That's a really bad sign, and why most doctors ask you about that when you go to see them.

Also blood type diets are largely bullshit, and most of what they have you eat is good for you for other reasons.

Lester C.
04-23-2012, 11:15 AM
Extremes on either end of the spectrum will kill you. I think people with severe eating disorders die at a much earlier age than people who have heart attacks but I think people who are at both ends of the spectrum have mental health issues they need to work out because both paths a cry for help leading to a form of suicide. Then again as a person with a life long struggle with his weight this post is probably saying a lot more about me than other people and I admit my objectively on this issue is shot to shit.

For the record my post is about people without medical issues. Clearly people losing weight because of cancer or gaining because their medicine's effect on their bodchemistryry are not mentally ill in the slightest or if they are it's correlational rather than causational.

Morrison_Lad
04-23-2012, 11:29 AM
Obviously, again, being morbidly obese is no better or worse than being *truly* anorexic (and this what PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF! Everyone who is thin is not anorexic, god dammit!).

Do I look like Alex Rodriguez? Absolutely not. Do I wish I did? Sometimes. Is the answer pretty simple? Absolutely. Look at my diet, and start working out like a monster. Granted, I will never be nearly as tall as him, nor will I will be as strong. But if I want to make my small frame into a powerful, fat-free body, it's completely within my ability to do so. Diet. Workout.

Now, I don't do that. Why? Because I really don't give a fuck at this point. The only reason to really worry about it is to impress members of the opposite sex (in my case) and I couldn't care less about that, really, since it isn't going to work anyways.

But I'm not going to complain that I don't look like an underwear model. I came to that conclusion a long time ago. But whatever I look like, I could have a nearly perfect body if I were willing to do what it took to get it. But like I said, I couldn't care less if I'm a little round around the middle these days. How does that affect me sitting at my computer or going to the coffee shop?

Someone like Natalia Vodianova's entire professional career, otoh, revolves around how she looks. Someone like Miguel Cabrera's entire career revolves around his physical stature and abilities. They aren't like *us*.

Treacle
04-23-2012, 03:13 PM
Last week at a models panel in England, Natalia Vodianova said, "C'mon guys. We all know it's better to be skinny than fat."

This was part of a larger discussion between Lily Cole, Eva Herzigova, and Vodianova about physiques, cultural differences in what's thought of as beautiful, and more. But of course, the line that stands out and causes all the yelling and outrage is Vodianova's.

And as a middle-aged man who's rounder around the middle than I used to be, and than I would like to be, my first reaction was, "Yeah. Obviously." But there seems to be some sort of monster outrage at various sites over what seems to me to be a fairly non-controversial comment.

It seems obvious to me. Is it just me?

It's better to be a body shape that's healthy for you, not one you have to force yourself into.

For women with Natalia Vodianova's particular genetic qualities, that's thin. For other women, that may be curvy, or muscular, or plump or something else.

Morrison_Lad
04-23-2012, 03:18 PM
It's better to be a body shape that's healthy for you, not one you have to force yourself into.

For women with Natalia Vodianova's particular genetic qualities, that's thin. For other women, that may be curvy, or muscular, or plump or something else.

Right. Thank you.

I remember when I was at college, and I ate plate after plate of food, and I never, ever, gained a pound. It's all about metabolism and genetics. For Natalia, she has an amazing metabolism. For lots of others, they don't.

Ray G.
04-23-2012, 03:36 PM
It's better to be a body shape that's healthy for you, not one you have to force yourself into.

For women with Natalia Vodianova's particular genetic qualities, that's thin. For other women, that may be curvy, or muscular, or plump or something else.

Exactly.

The rail-thin models advocating for everyone to starve themselves, and the 300-pound people preaching "Fat Pride" all equally dumb. Extremes are unhealthy.

Morrison_Lad
04-23-2012, 03:40 PM
Exactly.

The rail-thin models advocating for everyone to starve themselves, and the 300-pound people preaching "Fat Pride" all equally dumb. Extremes are unhealthy.

Very few famous models are "rail thin." Just saying.

CutterMike
04-23-2012, 05:36 PM
"Thin may be in, but fat is where it's at!"

Think about it -- most of the worst diseases known to humankind are wasting-type illnesses. Being fat should be seen as a sign that you're not carrying some horrible disease and are likely to be good breeding stock.

Fat should be seen as SEXY!

Better still, when we croak over, we're likely to go fast and not drag you down for eons waiting for us to finish the job: a clogged artery, a massive coronary, and here's your check from the life insurance, Mr./Ms Survivor -- It's PAYDAY!

To top it all off, being fat is the PATRIOTIC thing to do! Not only are we doing more than our share of trying to jumpstart the economy be being good consumers but, frankly, we're not likely to last long enough to collect Social Security, Medicare, or ANY of that crap -- thus doing our part to put off the day when those programs go broke!

To be honest, the rest of you should THANK us fat folk for all we do for you every day! :-)

JBK405
04-23-2012, 05:44 PM
Cutter, you're joking, but up until the early twentieth century fat was sexy, and for a lot of the reasons you just said. It was a sign of affluence, that you had enough food to eat and had a job where you didn't need to move a lot. It meant you were one of the upper-class, middle-class at the lowest (In fact, my grandmother still uses "He/she looks very 'propserous'" as a semi-veiled way to describe obese people). It was only with the rise of mass-produced food that fat began to mean lower-class, since cheap food is salty, greasy and generally leads to weight gain, even if you don't eat larger quantities.

Ray G.
04-23-2012, 06:34 PM
Cutter, you're joking, but up until the early twentieth century fat was sexy, and for a lot of the reasons you just said. It was a sign of affluence, that you had enough food to eat and had a job where you didn't need to move a lot. It meant you were one of the upper-class, middle-class at the lowest (In fact, my grandmother still uses "He/she looks very 'propserous'" as a semi-veiled way to describe obese people). It was only with the rise of mass-produced food that fat began to mean lower-class, since cheap food is salty, greasy and generally leads to weight gain, even if you don't eat larger quantities.

Yeah, I read this. And Gout - which is acquired from eating tons of rich food - was called "The Disease of Kings". :lol:

dasNdanger
04-23-2012, 07:29 PM
While it may be healthier and all that, I am growing more and more concerned about the discrimination against overweight people. You can't discriminate against, joke about, or demean women, gay people, or people of various ethnic backgrounds, so the only target left is fat people. Thing is, many overweight people already feel like shit about themselves, so these sorts of remarks are not helpful, at all. Also, many overweight people have genetic or medical conditions that cause their weight gain, yet this is never addressed. Instead, all overweight people are stereotyped as 'lazy fatass gluttons'. On the other hand, drug addiction and alcoholism are classified as diseases, often giving the abusers of those substances more medical (and insurance) rights than an overweight person.

So, yeah, I hate when people make comments like this. It does nothing to address the real issues (medical, environmental, and psychological) of the overweight people on this planet. Instead, it just continues to make them the 'joke'.


das

Morrison_Lad
04-23-2012, 08:53 PM
She's hardly "rail thin":

http://photos.posh24.com/p/944987/z/jameela_jamil/natalia_vodianova.jpg

Morrison_Lad
04-23-2012, 08:56 PM
And I doubt they will let me show the CK ad.

zemo
04-24-2012, 03:31 AM
She's got the strangest lips...

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2012, 04:19 AM
IMO, she's too thin.

I dispute whether it's better to be skinny than fat. Thin, MAYBE, but not skinny. Skinny can be as unhealthy as over-weight. Especially if it's due to mental issues for fear of being seen as "fat".

I am heavier than I wish to be now. BUT, I'm healthier than when I was "skinny" as a teen.

And too many youths have body issues without some celebrity talking about how it's much better to be skinny. Hell, I was disgusted when people were commenting more on Adele's weight when she sang on at the Grammys than about the fact that she had regained her voice and could still belt 'em out. Adele is NOT fat, IMO. Not in the pics I've seen.

Cam63
04-24-2012, 04:29 AM
She's got the strangest lips...

Model Fight Club ?

zemo
04-24-2012, 04:34 AM
Model Fight Club ?

Now now, don't forget the first rule of Model Fight Club: Walk, walk, walk, turn...smile!

Ziggy Stardust
04-24-2012, 04:34 AM
Collagen attack!!!!!

Morrison_Lad
04-24-2012, 04:41 AM
She's amazing. You should see her CK ad.

Well.