Just read Secret Avengers #21

[brettc1]

I know I am a few months behind but...

Did Steve Rogers authorize the torture of a group of people to find the one spy among the innocents?

Is that what I read? And did he not even have the guys to do it himself?

Becasue if so then all I can say is... WTF?!!!

[Tobias M]

I know I am a few months behind but...

Did Steve Rogers authorize the torture of a group of people to find the one spy among the innocents?

Is that what I read? And did he not even have the guys to do it himself?

Becasue if so then all I can say is... WTF?!!!

Warren Ellis is fond of his realpolitik.

[The Funketeer]

I know I am a few months behind but...

Did Steve Rogers authorize the torture of a group of people to find the one spy among the innocents?

Is that what I read? And did he not even have the guys to do it himself?

Becasue if so then all I can say is... WTF?!!!

That bothered me too. I get what Ellis was going for but I think it's important to respect the characters and I find that lately, there's a lot of people who don't understand Captain America.

[Major Comma]

That bothered me too. I get what Ellis was going for but I think it's important to respect the characters and I find that lately, there's a lot of people who don't understand Captain America.
Are you referring to other writers who have dealt with the character recently or readers who expressed certain opinions to you?

[Patrick Gerard]

I think the big thing is, the whole point of Captain America is that he doesn't really ascribe to military principles or the U.S. government's policy on... anything. But they keep him around because he gets results and he's what they wish they were.

And he's disavowed the U.S. government for less than torture and they came crawling back to him.

[DarkKnightJared]

Yeah, that kinda bothered me too--the only way I can kinda sorta go along with it is that he wasn't THE Captain America at that time, he was Captain Steve Rogers, a regular man with a big job in policing the world. Even then, it still feels a little out of character.

[brettc1]

Yeah, that kinda bothered me too--the only way I can kinda sorta go along with it is that he wasn't THE Captain America at that time, he was Captain Steve Rogers, a regular man with a big job in policing the world. Even then, it still feels a little out of character.

I thought about that and decided - makes no difference.

Captain America isn't the costume or the super-soldier serum - its the man. That was the whole point of this scene in the movie...

Dr. Abraham Erskine: Yeah. But, there were other effects. The serum was not ready. But more important, the man. The serum amplifies everything that is inside. So, good becomes great. Bad becomes worse. This is why you were chosen. Because a strong man, who has known power all his life, will lose respect for that power. But a weak man knows the value of strength. And knows compassion.

Steve Rogers: Thanks. I think.

Dr. Abraham Erskine: Whatever happens tomorrow, you must promise me one thing. That you will stay who you are. Not a perfect soldier, but a good man.

What we saw in Secret Avengers was a man being a perfect soldier - but without compassion. Also it's been pointed out numerous times that in a world with super-science and telepaths, going into this situation where you know you have to find the mole in a limited amount of time and having no better fall back than 'torture everyone' is pretty dumb.

The fact that he says is it dishonorable and then orders subordinates to do it for him is just despicable. So what is somone else does it? The Red Skull had guys to do his torturing for him as well and he was still a monster.

Movie Steve would look at SA #21 Steve and what he did and kick his ass.

[The Funketeer]

Are you referring to other writers who have dealt with the character recently or readers who expressed certain opinions to you?

Both although it only bothers me when the writers do it. I don't pay much mind to fanboy whining (he says as he whines about Captain America). I think Brubaker has a pretty good handle on him and I don't mind as much that Bucky uses a gun since he's a different character coming from a different place. I also recognize that WWII Captain America used a gun but that was 60 years ago and during a time of war. Since then, Cap has evolved to the point where he's even publicly spoken on the subject of killing a foe and why he shouldn't do it. Cap is the Superman of the Marvel Universe. He's the hero every stops to listen to whenever he talks. He's the hero they all aspire to be even if they fail. Cap would never authorize the torture of a prisoner.

[Ziggy Stardust]

That bothered me too. I get what Ellis was going for but I think it's important to respect the characters and I find that lately, there's a lot of people who don't understand Captain America.

Starting with Civil War, IMO.