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View Full Version : why is West Wing post-Season 4 so bad?



speedr
07-12-2005, 05:00 PM
i just started watching the first season on dvd, and i'm loving it. i've also caught some reruns on bravo with the end of season 4 and the beginning of 5. i know sorkin left with the end of 4, but what made 5 so bad? i watched some of it, and i'll admit, while it's not as engaging, it doesn't seem as awful as everyone makes it sound. maybe i just haven't watched enough?
also, how come the new vice president, gary cole, isn't running for president? why's it jimmy smits?

DigiEmissary
07-12-2005, 05:03 PM
i just started watching the first season on dvd, and i'm loving it. i've also caught some reruns on bravo with the end of season 4 and the beginning of 5. i know sorkin left with the end of 4, but what made 5 so bad? i watched some of it, and i'll admit, while it's not as engaging, it doesn't seem as awful as everyone makes it sound. maybe i just haven't watched enough?
also, how come the new vice president, gary cole, isn't running for president? why's it jimmy smits?


sorkin left with the end of 4

^

Bill?
07-12-2005, 05:04 PM
No Sorkin and no Schlamme = not as smart. Itís a whole different show. Now it plays out like Law and Order, except sorta about politics (there was also some big changes in the politics of the show).

Gary Cole's character did try to run for president. But he lost. This is probably because he has his own shows and stuff that he does and couldnít commit to a series like that. Also, Jimmy Smits is sorta a bigger star.

dimeshop
07-12-2005, 05:06 PM
I think season 4 gets a bum wrap.

season 5 doesn't

Alex K.
07-12-2005, 05:23 PM
I think season 4 gets a bum wrap.

not from me it doesn't. It might be my favorite.

Your Pal, Carl
07-12-2005, 05:32 PM
It's only bad by comparison to seasons 1-4. I still think it's preferable to other network shows.

Sy-Klone
07-12-2005, 05:36 PM
Season 5 is extremely hit and miss.

For example, there are a few episodes from Season 5 that I thought were outstanding. "The Supremes," featuring a great guest appearance by Glenn Close. "Shutdown," featuring a Bartlet-Hafley standoff about the federal budget and a government shutdown.

But then, there are episodes that didn't work at all. The resolution to the Zoey kidnap plot was boring and predictable, there was a really self-important episode where Bartlet tours disaster sites and comforts the wounded.

I stopped watching in the middle of season six. I couldn't take it anymore. I think the show is about President Bartlet and the people he surrounds himself with. John Wells thinks this is a show about the office, and based on the title, it is about the office, but it's always been about the people inside the White House. I don't want to see a new President elected. I want President Bartlet and his staff, and when their term is over, I want the show to end. Maybe that's just me.

Season 4 was not as bad as many say, but it does suffer from the weak "Zoey is kidnapped" season arc that just seemed tedious, plus the whole departure of Rob Lowe in a less than spectacular fashion.

Francis
07-12-2005, 05:36 PM
I tried hard to watch season 5. I needed to see the cliffhanger resolved, but after that I couldn't keep going. The heart was gone, the characters I loved were empty of their former life, and I was saddened.

--
Francis

J. Wilson
07-12-2005, 06:17 PM
The question is about POST season 4, not including season 4.

Season 5 was horrendous during the first half of the season. It got significantly better in the second half but not enough to overcome the stink of the first half.

I thought Season 6 was pretty good.

alan
07-12-2005, 06:52 PM
Season 5 was indeed hit and miss with me. There are some great episodes in there, though ("Han," "The Stormy Present," "No Exit"), and some not so good ones.

The new writing team found thier stride with season 6, I felt. Maybe it's that the change in cast helps us see the change in the show itself. But I really enjoyed last season a lot.

--Alan

dEnny!
07-12-2005, 07:16 PM
The question is about POST season 4, not including season 4.

Season 5 was horrendous during the first half of the season. It got significantly better in the second half but not enough to overcome the stink of the first half.

I thought Season 6 was pretty good.

The show kind of paralleled what was going on behind the scenes. The Bartlett Administratin was floundering after Bartlett stepped down because of the kidnapping of his daughter, much like the show was floundering with Sorkin and Schlamme parting ways. I thought the direction/shooting of the early episodes were odd. The show lost that high octane, quick witted, intelligent banter, but it began to pick up mid-season and I thought this past season was a step in the right direction (though they took out any surprise with the final episode - essentially showing who wins in their commercial, which I guess wasn't in question).

speedr
07-13-2005, 12:34 PM
and what's this i hear about leo having a heart attack, him stepping down as chief of staff, and CJ taking over?! shouldn't it be josh? i'm so confused...
and yes, i agree, west wing should end with bartlet's administration, not seguing into the new president's.
and did anyone else hear that rob lowe is coming back for a few episodes? that should be good.

Ray G.
07-13-2005, 12:38 PM
and what's this i hear about leo having a heart attack, him stepping down as chief of staff, and CJ taking over?! shouldn't it be josh? i'm so confused...
and yes, i agree, west wing should end with bartlet's administration, not seguing into the new president's.
and did anyone else hear that rob lowe is coming back for a few episodes? that should be good.

Yes, but CJ's a Woman, and this is a liberal show, so she was promoted. I'm not saying she wasn't qualified, but it never would have happened. Josh would have gotten the job automatically. But the show has always sort of been a liberal daydream. Oh, and they can hype the election all they want, but Alda has as much chance at winning as James Brolin did in Season 4. The show can be good, but it lays its politics on a bit thick.

THWIP!
07-13-2005, 12:53 PM
I haven't seen any opf the fifth season yet. I just finished the 4th season a few days ago and I loved it. I thought it was great. season six wasn't bad at all, though i do think it should have focused more on the president rather than the elction. I hope it changes but i doubt it.

Bervda
07-13-2005, 01:00 PM
I've never watched this show on TV, but I have been following it since it started coming out on DVD. After investing money into the first four sets it sounds like this show is going to crap on me. I love what Sorkin brought to the show, and without him I can't imagine it being nearly as good.

Nick MB
07-13-2005, 01:44 PM
I've just started watching the fifth season on DVD, and have gotten as far as the one where Bartlet is comforting people after that disaster. (Which I quite liked.) It's lost a bit of snap, but I'm still enjoying it... I do admit that the Zoey kidnapping plot could have been resolved more effectively though.

J. Wilson
07-13-2005, 03:05 PM
Yes, but CJ's a Woman, and this is a liberal show, so she was promoted. I'm not saying she wasn't qualified, but it never would have happened. Josh would have gotten the job automatically. But the show has always sort of been a liberal daydream. Oh, and they can hype the election all they want, but Alda has as much chance at winning as James Brolin did in Season 4. The show can be good, but it lays its politics on a bit thick.

Josh is not a Chief of Staff guy. He goes out and gets his hands dirty, and he'd kill himself if he was tied down to the COS position.

Jastermereel
07-13-2005, 05:18 PM
The show can be good, but it lays its politics on a bit thick.
Wait. A show about the white house lays the politics on a bit thick?

Damn you NYPD Blue for dealing with all those cop things! Damn you Law and Order for really piling on the judicial stuff! And damn you Firefly for laying on the space stuff and the western stuff so thick!