Anyone here read The Hunger Games Novels (Spoilers for the whole series)

[saintsaucey]

So on another site they were talking about the Hunger Games Trilogy, specificly how bad it is. They mentioned the ending being unhappy and said that Katniss, despite being persued by two men and marrying and having children with one of them in the books final chapter, displayed sapphic tendancies.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong if the character did have a prefferance for women but I don't believe she did and was wondering if anyone who has read the series got that impression.

Here was the orginal post


I guess we're working from different definitions. My feelings about the books are these:

(1) Katniss is meant to be a badass, but other than the fact that she shoots things she's essentially another weak-ass female character with no agency.

(2) She's also clearly a lesbian, and the happy ending (won't spoil it) is a sop to tradition rather than an actual happy ending.

(3) The second book is essentially the first book over again.

(4) Maybe that's a good thing, because the third book is different, and it's terrible.

(5) SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT The death of the little sister undoes the book's entire punch. I wasn't attached to the character in any way -- she was a cipher -- but when the triggering action of the whole series is an attempt to save a character who then dies a horrible death anyway, your narrative choices are going seriously awry. I didn't get the sense the books were trying to convey a nihilistic message; they're just torture porn.


I bolded the only part of the statement that I though was true.


The signs that she's a lesbian basically consist of the fact that she has no real interest in either of the men in the story, and the only people that really catch her visual interest are women.

the posters reason why she is Clearly a lesbian


So thoughts?

[Erica J Heflin]

I agree a bit with the bolder statement.

But no, I didn't think Katniss was a lesbian, and I'm pretty good at picking up on subtext. I think straight women are quite capable of being aware of other women at the level that Katniss displayed. On the other hand, there was a good deal that demonstrated her preference for men. I wouldn't have guessed she'd have ended up with the one that she did, but it seemed clear enough that early on she was attracted to the other. She just wasn't excited about her future prospects in the world in general.

I don't think the ending was too happy, honestly. It was really just getting on with her life. I don't think the 13th was particularly idyllic at all.

[DungeonMasterJim]

I thought the series was a bit overrated but that's marketting today. Still, enjoyable. The names of the characters really bugged me. All of them. That made me disconnect from them a bit. My favorite characters were actually two of the supporting characters. I liked Beetee and Finn the best. I may be messing up the names because I finished the books back in early 2011.

I'm looking forward to the movies, though.

[michealdark]

I'm not sure you can have an overly happy ending with this series, because even if you undid the way the Panem government works and get rid of the Hunger Games, that doesn't change anything about what came before, nor does it change the depraved state that society had fallen into in and of itself. It would take a generation of cultural reprogramming to undo that damage.

[coveredinbees]

I only read the first one. I didn't really like Katniss and it was her narrating, so I didn't want to read the rest. Also, it was so depressing. I'll read the others when they're all out in paperback, maybe.
I did like Peeta and Madge. I like the name Madge. I thought Madge had a crush on Katniss, but I was a little bored at the start of the story, so I might have made that up.

[michealdark]

Of course it's depressing. It's about kids killing kids on TV for the entertainment of vengeful government. It's Battle Royale with deeper characters, as I've come to understand it.

[Corrina]

I described this plot to my husband tonight and he said "this doesn't sound like a kid's series."

But, when I was that age, I read John Chrisopher's Tripod series, which has a lot of similarities.

My son informs me, though, that yes, the second book was the first book all over again. :)

[Stressfactor]

Of course it's depressing. It's about kids killing kids on TV for the entertainment of vengeful government. It's Battle Royale with deeper characters, as I've come to understand it.

And the basic plot to the movie version of The Running Man and possibly Stephen King's (as Richard Bachman) The Long Walk ( I can't really say for sure since I've only seen an outline and haven't read the actual story but the outline sounds similar), and a little bit of Logan's Run, and the classic Doctor Who episode Vengeance on Varos, and the very real, historical concept of "Bread and Circuses" in ancient Rome.

In other words, it's a basic theme that goes back a heck of a lot longer than "Battle Royale" they're just dressing it up differently.

[coveredinbees]

I knew it was going to be a bummer, but I got annoyed at myself for reading it anyway. I didn't think I'd love it. It was recommended so many times.

[bert]

Of course it's depressing. It's about kids killing kids on TV for the entertainment of vengeful government. It's Battle Royale with deeper characters, as I've come to understand it.

I haven't read the "Hunger Games" books, but I'd like to.

"Battle Royale" while a fantastic film (and one of my faves for many years, since I got a bootleg of it at Dragon*con back in ~2003) is a chore to read. The book is SOOOO dense, and the character names are so similar, it really was a chore to read.

I'll watch the film over and over, but only made it thru the dense book once.

I have a feeling Hunger Games will be the opposite -- I'll like the books, but think the film is only so-so.

[michealdark]

I worry the movie will be so-so, largely because i think you probably need an R rating to go as far with the violence as the series does, but they chopped it down to a Pg-13.

[sk716]

I described this plot to my husband tonight and he said "this doesn't sound like a kid's series."

But, when I was that age, I read John Chrisopher's Tripod series, which has a lot of similarities.

My son informs me, though, that yes, the second book was the first book all over again. :)

The second book is kind of a repeat of the first book, except that Katniss is fully aware of the mess she has created and has the added burden of trying to stop a budding rebellion.

Susanne Collins has said that she was inspired to write Hunger Games after watching American Idol. So, I like to tell people it's The Lottery meets American Idol.

EDITED TO ADD: It's a common trope in literature. Hero/Heroine must battle to the death in an arena situation. In this case its the Roman bread and circuses as someone mentioned before. Hunger Games just kind of follows it through it's natural progression.

Hunger Games: Evil government sends children to battle to the death for the amusement of the Capitol and to further remind the citizens of the districts of just how little power and recourse they have. Heroine changes the rules of the game and makes the Government look bad.

Catching Fire: More bread and circuses to distract the powerful districts and further oppress the weaker districts.

Mockingjay: It backfires and causes a full scale rebellion.

[sk716]

So on another site they were talking about the Hunger Games Trilogy, specificly how bad it is. They mentioned the ending being unhappy and said that Katniss, despite being persued by two men and marrying and having children with one of them in the books final chapter, displayed sapphic tendancies.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong if the character did have a prefferance for women but I don't believe she did and was wondering if anyone who has read the series got that impression.

Here was the orginal post



I bolded the only part of the statement that I though was true.



the posters reason why she is Clearly a lesbian


So thoughts?

I'm not clear how anyone could interpret the ending as Katniss being a lesbian. Through three novels she is obviously comforted in Peetas arms. Katniss has quite a bit more to worry about over the course of the novels than which boy to marry or which boy can save her. She's not Bella Swan.

Katniss is practical, that doesn't make her a lesbian. Survivors are not concerned about such petty things as puppy love. She chooses Peeta because she can't live without him and because Gale was kind of responsible for killing her sister. As for the death of Priim, I think it's just exactly what the book says it is, to show that the good guys are monsters, too.

[DungeonMasterJim]

I worry the movie will be so-so, largely because i think you probably need an R rating to go as far with the violence as the series does, but they chopped it down to a Pg-13.

I think the violence in the book wasn't that bad. Not description wise anyways. I think when Katniss first kills it's something like she shoots the boy in the chest and he died. It wasn't like his lungs splattering out blood which also dripped from his mouth making a tie-dye of blood swirls on his shirt... A movie can imply violence without having to have a specific, detailed and grotesque shot of it.

[Erica J Heflin]

I'm not clear how anyone could interpret the ending as Katniss being a lesbian. Through three novels she is obviously comforted in Peetas arms. Katniss has quite a bit more to worry about over the course of the novels than which boy to marry or which boy can save her. She's not Bella Swan.

Katniss is practical, that doesn't make her a lesbian. Survivors are not concerned about such petty things as puppy love. She chooses Peeta because she can't live without him and because Gale was kind of responsible for killing her sister. As for the death of Priim, I think it's just exactly what the book says it is, to show that the good guys are monsters, too.

That nails my reaction. That's why describing Mockingjay as having a happy ending makes me crazy. lol. The situation wasn't idyllic in the end. There were plenty of messed up things about the good guys.

[michealdark]

The second book is kind of a repeat of the first book, except that Katniss is fully aware of the mess she has created and has the added burden of trying to stop a budding rebellion.

Susanne Collins has said that she was inspired to write Hunger Games after watching American Idol. So, I like to tell people it's The Lottery meets American Idol.

EDITED TO ADD: It's a common trope in literature. Hero/Heroine must battle to the death in an arena situation. In this case its the Roman bread and circuses as someone mentioned before. Hunger Games just kind of follows it through it's natural progression.

Hunger Games: Evil government sends children to battle to the death for the amusement of the Capitol and to further remind the citizens of the districts of just how little power and recourse they have. Heroine changes the rules of the game and makes the Government look bad.

Catching Fire: More bread and circuses to distract the powerful districts and further oppress the weaker districts.

Mockingjay: It backfires and causes a full scale rebellion.

That's a succinct summary of the books. Except in Mockingjay, Katniss has to come to the realization that she's being played by both sides, and that the good guys aren't that much better than the Capitol. She ultimately succeeds in getting the Games done away with and the districts do get more power, but it's still a very damaged world with a long way to go before it recovers something of its basic humanity.


I think the violence in the book wasn't that bad. Not description wise anyways. I think when Katniss first kills it's something like she shoots the boy in the chest and he died. It wasn't like his lungs splattering out blood which also dripped from his mouth making a tie-dye of blood swirls on his shirt... A movie can imply violence without having to have a specific, detailed and grotesque shot of it.

That's true. How many movies do that anymore though?

[sk716]

The director has said he focused more on the faces and the reactions to the violence than the actual acts.

[michealdark]

That might be an interesting experiment then. Good actors can make you believe a death scene with just facial expressions, but there is a bit of an art form to it.

[MacQuarrie]

Katniss is not a badass. She's a survivor. In fact, Jennifer Lawrence got the part because she told the director that Katniss should never look badass.

As for the ending, it comes out the only way it could. Only one of the two guys understands what she went through. A lot of people don't like it because it isn't a fairy tale adolescent romance, it's a story of actions and consequences. Katniss outgrew her first crush. It happens.

[saintsaucey]

Peetadidnt though

[michealdark]

Katniss is not a badass. She's a survivor. In fact, Jennifer Lawrence got the part because she told the director that Katniss should never look badass.

As for the ending, it comes out the only way it could. Only one of the two guys understands what she went through. A lot of peopledon't like it because it isn't a fairy tale adolescent romance, it's a story of actions and consequences. Katniss outgrew her first crush. It happens.

I think some people are upset that she not only marries Peeta, but has kids, which breaks her own oath. But they forget that a) She's a woman. There's nothing wrong with her wanting a family and trying to have some stability in her life. The fact that she's a survivor, the fact that she's tough, shouldn't negate the fact that she might have a maternal instinct. In fact if anything, I think she has an extremely well developed maternal instinct. Everything she does isn't so much about saving herself, it's about saving the kids of the districts from the evil of the Games. She cares about the kids so much that she's willing to stand up to an oppressive regime to make things better for them. b) The Games no longer exist. It's still a sucky world that has a lot of healing to do, but she didn't want kids because she didn't want to see them put in a situation of fighting for their lives for other people's entertainment. She doesn't have to worry about that anymore.

[MacQuarrie]

Peetadidnt though

Peeta didn't need to. It just worked out that way for him, that his life experience and Katniss' brought them together, while Katniss and Gale's experiences pushed them apart. Katniss is ddeply scarred by the Games; Gale could never understand what she went through; his zealous campaign against the Capitol is largely possible due to her actions, but she can't join him in it; it would cost her too much more. They have to go their separate ways. She and Peeta have a deep bond; the things that separate her from Gale draw her to Peeta.

[C.B. Nerdlinger]

I think nihilistic is the perfect word to describe the last book. Far too much so for my tastes, and I loved the first two (which aren't identical, by the way).

I hated Prim dying and saw no point to it. She was the whole reason Katniss got involved with anything in the first place. A happy ending doesn't make a bad story. I would have greatly preferred if she had survived. They could have even had the same lesson with her mother dying instead.

[Ziggy Stardust]

This series sounds like "Richard Bachman's" book The Long Walk but more emo for today's world, from what I'm reading here.

[Corrina]

I think the intense emotional attachment for the books is because of seeing the world only through Katniss' POV.

[Gail Simone]

I read the books and enjoyed them quite a lot.

[MacQuarrie]

I think that 10-20 years from now, a lot of young people will point to Hunger Games as the beginning of their political awakening. Ideally, they will see the likes of the Kardashians as emblematic of the vulgarity and waste of the Capitol and recognize Katniss as the modern Everywoman. This can only be good for our civilization.

[michealdark]

I hope it does cause a political awakening, in much the same way that The Giver did for my generation, and Brave New World, 1984, and Anthem did for our parents and grandparents. Dystopian fiction is always set in a fictional future, but always reflects current sociopolitical trends. Sometimes people will look in that mirror and see the distortions in it that need correction, and will work to correct them.

[Laevatein]

Saw the film, and really liked it. I hope the movie is as much of a smash hit as is being predicted - not least because it would embarrass the "female-led action movies don't sell" crowd.

[michealdark]

Anything that can kill Twilight....and create fans capable of killing Twi-hards, I'[m all for.

[MacQuarrie]

Based on the email and phone calls we're getting, the archery range is going to be overrun with newbies tomorrow.

[MacQuarrie]

We've had calls and visits from NBC, the LA Times, ABC, CBS, and I'm being interviewed by the local public radio station (KPCC) on Tuesday. One of the other coaches was interviewed by Vanity Fair this week. Archery is a thing this year.

[C.B. Nerdlinger]

We've had calls and visits from NBC, the LA Times, ABC, CBS, and I'm being interviewed by the local public radio station (KPCC) on Tuesday. One of the other coaches was interviewed by Vanity Fair this week. Archery is a thing this year.

Plus you still have Brave coming out. And Avengers, I guess.

[JBK405]

Congrats Mac. I hope this leads to an archery upswing, and maybe evn an upswing in accurate archery.

I saw the movie earlier today and I found it interesting and enjoyable, but not without its flaws (Then again, can anybody remember the last time I haven't found flaws in something?).

If I could change one thing, one single thing, it would have been to tone down the fashion of Capitol. I understand what they were going for, a stylized look to highlight the luxury and decadence of Capitol and to contrast it with life in the districts, but I think they went too strong. It was often distracting and hard to get past, and seemed unnecessarily elaborate for what it was trying to do.

Other than that, though, my complaints are the general run-of-the-mill complaints I have for most movies that don't measure up to my high standards.

Katniss did not look badass or AWESOME!, she looked like a scared young woman who was fighting for her life and did what she had to do to survive, which was (I believe) what they were gong for and was "realistic." I found the "love" story (If that's how you want to term it) to also be well done, partly because it wasn't a love story. They were pushed together by circumstance and depended on one another, and that forced their emotions together; such happens quite often in real life and is how a lot of relationships form and continue, and I never once got the impression that they were two young lovers realizing the emotions that had been hidden all along, just that they were two terrified teens trapped in the woods together.

[michealdark]

Congrats, Mac

[sk716]

. . .

If I could change one thing, one single thing, it would have been to tone down the fashion of Capitol. I understand what they were going for, a stylized look to highlight the luxury and decadence of Capitol and to contrast it with life in the districts, but I think they went too strong. It was often distracting and hard to get past, and seemed unnecessarily elaborate for what it was trying to do.

Other than that, though, my complaints are the general run-of-the-mill complaints I have for most movies that don't measure up to my high standards.



This was toned down considerably from the books. Katniss spends a great deal of time being disgusted by the Capitols excesses and ignorance.

[michealdark]

Mockingjay is going to be the hard sell. Political thrillers typically don't excite the teen crowd. I think that one's going to be the sleeper hit. It's going to do well at the box office, but poorly compared to the first two. But the older fans of the story are going to buy the shit out of it on blu-ray.

[bert]

Katniss is not a badass. She's a survivor. In fact, Jennifer Lawrence got the part because she told the director that Katniss should never look badass.

As for the ending, it comes out the only way it could. Only one of the two guys understands what she went through. A lot of people don't like it because it isn't a fairy tale adolescent romance, it's a story of actions and consequences. Katniss outgrew her first crush. It happens.

I just finished the series, and I have to say I disliked the ending, but not the 3rd book (I actually think the 2nd book is a bit stronger than the first book, even if the idea is basically a re-do (ie: what if she had allies the first time).

that said, the 3rd book was great until the final 3rd.

I have no issue with the big "death" or the very ending (who she ends up with).

but the 3rd section of "Mockingjay" feels choppy, and too "clean" -- several of the actions are never fully explained (no one knows what Katniss does, so the big "execution" scene no doubt SHOULD have ended up with her death -- the people would have demanded it.

and the entire scene with the remaining tributes voting weather or not to continue the hunger games?. . makes no thematic sense at all -- and those that vote to continue the games have no leg to stand on, as it's a betrayal of everything that has occurred in the series to that point.

mix in the complete throw away of the driving plot (get to and assassinate President Snow) . . really. . that ending is an insulting afterthought.

all that said, I hope Collins goes back and fills in blanks in further books. I'd love to read the history of Enobaria, or read about Haymich's quarter quell games (even tho we know the ending of the book -- he wins). . . .

but yeah. . 3rd book was a bit of a let down for me.

and no. . absolutely not is she a lesbian. . tho the pussy does make a friend of her in the final pages ( :p)

[The Funketeer]

I thought the entire series was poorly paced, plotted and in general, poorly written. The characters were unlikeable and I was bothered by the manufactured love triangle. By the third book, I was bothered that the author, and in turn, most of her readers, felt that Katniss had to make a choice between the two boys at all when she clearly didn't have feelings for either one of them. It's like saying "if a boy likes you, you have to like him back."

Count me among the few people who thought the movie managed to improve on the book.

[sk716]

I just finished the series, and I have to say I disliked the ending, but not the 3rd book (I actually think the 2nd book is a bit stronger than the first book, even if the idea is basically a re-do (ie: what if she had allies the first time).

that said, the 3rd book was great until the final 3rd.

I have no issue with the big "death" or the very ending (who she ends up with).

but the 3rd section of "Mockingjay" feels choppy, and too "clean" -- several of the actions are never fully explained (no one knows what Katniss does, so the big "execution" scene no doubt SHOULD have ended up with her death -- the people would have demanded it.

and the entire scene with the remaining tributes voting weather or not to continue the hunger games?. . makes no thematic sense at all -- and those that vote to continue the games have no leg to stand on, as it's a betrayal of everything that has occurred in the series to that point.

mix in the complete throw away of the driving plot (get to and assassinate President Snow) . . really. . that ending is an insulting afterthought.

all that said, I hope Collins goes back and fills in blanks in further books. I'd love to read the history of Enobaria, or read about Haymich's quarter quell games (even tho we know the ending of the book -- he wins). . . .

but yeah. . 3rd book was a bit of a let down for me.

and no. . absolutely not is she a lesbian. . tho the pussy does make a friend of her in the final pages ( :p)

The last 3rd of Mockingjay is choppy. I took it as a creative choice because Katniss is so destroyed and out of it after Prim is killed. The whole series is her POV of the events.

[bert]

true, but key sequences don't work because the blanks to fill in are too big.

(best example is what I listed above -- the people don't know what Katniss knows (they love that character who took care of them and lead them). .they would have demanded her death -- regardless of anything Plutarch says at a trial).

and the whole scene with voting to continue the Hunger Games -- yeah, I could see why Katniss would be devastated. . but after what she's been thru in the series? no way would she vote "yes"

just does not work.

[Ravenwing263]

I always thought he voted yes to get Madame President to think she's on her side, all the better to SHOOT HER IN THE HEAD

[Cat]

That's what I thought too.

I really liked the series, more than I expected to.

I agree with the third book. Some things just seemed to be brushed over and places were too hurried. He's dead! and him! and then they lived happily ever after. The End.

[Kingsmythe]

I thought they were a bit over ratred.

Book one was predictable, book two had some surprises, and book three seemed to be the writer declaring war on her characters.

They were decent reads, but not as fantastic as I seem to keep hearing.

[saintsaucey]

Yeah she was playing the president.

[The Funketeer]

I always thought he voted yes to get Madame President to think she's on her side, all the better to SHOOT HER IN THE HEAD

I don't think so. I got the impression she made the decision to shoot her at the last minute and considering so much of the damn books take place in her head, I think we would have seen that thought process as she was making the decision.

[C.B. Nerdlinger]

I don't remember the specifics, but I'm pretty sure she voted yes for a reason other than wanting to see more Hunger Games.

I think it was to prove that the new president was really behind Prim's death and give her the evidence she needed to decide on killing her.

[bert]

Yeah she was playing the president.

but she wasn't.

I just finished the book yesterday, at the point she (and Haymitch) vote yes, she truly means to vote yes.

(she decides to assassinate Coin only after her last interaction with Snow. . which happens AFTER that vote on continuing the Games).

[bert]

I don't think so. I got the impression she made the decision to shoot her at the last minute and considering so much of the damn books take place in her head, I think we would have seen that thought process as she was making the decision.

yeah. . .what I just said too :)

[bert]

Some things just seemed to be brushed over and places were too hurried. He's dead! and him! and then they lived happily ever after. The End.

HaHaHa. . . pretty accurate summary of the last 3rd of the book!


I kept thinking to myself while reading -- in the last "Harry Potter". . they spent 1/3rd of the book CAMPING. . and in the last book of the "Hunger Games" Katniss is spending at least 1/3rd of the book in Hospital.

sheesh. . for the face of the rebellion, she sure sucks at not getting hurt!

[The Funketeer]

HaHaHa. . . pretty accurate summary of the last 3rd of the book!


I kept thinking to myself while reading -- in the last "Harry Potter". . they spent 1/3rd of the book CAMPING. . and in the last book of the "Hunger Games" Katniss is spending at least 1/3rd of the book in Hospital.

sheesh. . for the face of the rebellion, she sure sucks at not getting hurt!

I'm not a fan of the last Harry Potter book by any means (except for when Neville finally throws down, that was awesome) but I'd argue that at least the camping scenes served the purpose of showing the toll the war was taking on their friendship and how the horcrux was turning them against each other. Yes it was long and drawn out and in serious need of some editing but it had purpose. The first half of all three Hunger Games books, were just long bouts of exposition and set up, repeating information we already knew and doing nothing to move the characters along. It was a lot of unnecessary world building when the reader just wanted to see the story move along.

[saintsaucey]

It's not like harry and the love birds were on holiday. They were on the run for harry's life.